1989 replies to this topic

[Gal220]

New study shows that coronavirus remains chronically present in a wide range of organs throughout the body. This is the case even in patients with very mild symptoms.

 

Looks like if you catch it, it may remain in your body for life, probably triggering chronic diseases when you are older.

 

Blood cleanser(Neprinol or Serracor) is the way to go imo

[Hip]

Blood cleanser(Neprinol or Serracor) is the way to go imo

 

I have seen no evidence that supplements like serrapeptase can remove viruses from the organs or tissues.

 

Many chronic diseases are linked to the persistent presence of viruses in various organs, for example in type 1 diabetes coxsackievirus B4 is found in the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas. And heart valve disease is linked to enterovirus in the valve tissues.

 

I know of no supplement which can remove these viruses from the pancreas or heart valves.

[lancebr]

Interesting information about some of the numbers of this pandemic:

 

 

"Are the Double Jabbed Removed from ICU Satatistics to make Unvaccinated Numbers Higher?"

 

https://nakedemperor...ed-removed-from

 

 

"According to the latest ICU data, the unvaccinated are not overwhelming the NHS"

 

https://dailysceptic...elming-the-nhs/

 

 

 

Edited by lancebr, 28 December 2021 - 08:26 PM.

[geo12the]

New study shows that coronavirus remains chronically present in a wide range of organs throughout the body. This is the case even in patients with very mild symptoms.

 

Looks like if you catch it, it may remain in your body for life, probably triggering chronic diseases when you are older.

 

This could explain why some people with long COVID feel better after getting vaccinated. 

[Mind]

Even though preliminary data show that the COVID shots help in reducing (but not eliminating) the risk of death, they are nothing like what was promised. The injections are not stopping the spread of COVID. It continues to spread like wildfire. 

 

It is so bad in the U.S. that the national media had to create a new phrase "Viral Blizzard". https://twitter.com/...705271436402701

 

In France, it is so bad that they are calling it a "Megawave" of infection.

 

ESPN is at risk of losing $400 million in revenue due to COVID spread among 100% vaccinated college athletes.

 

100% vaccinated Cruise Ships are heading back to port because of COVID outbreaks.

 

Yet some U.S. national media outlets claim that injected people do not spread COVID.

 

A pre-print of a Danish study indicates the effectiveness of the COVID shots wanes after about a month and the effectiveness (against the newest variant) might go negative - meaning that injected people become more likely to catch the disease and spread the disease (researchers are puzzled by this and offer some suggestions) . Looking around the world right now, this study seems to be right on target.

[Gal220]

I have seen no evidence that supplements like serrapeptase can remove viruses from the organs or tissues.

 

Many chronic diseases are linked to the persistent presence of viruses in various organs, for example in type 1 diabetes coxsackievirus B4 is found in the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas. And heart valve disease is linked to enterovirus in the valve tissues.

 

I know of no supplement which can remove these viruses from the pancreas or heart valves.

 

I would love to see more research as well, but a protease supplement does digest up proteins.

Neprinol, Serracor

https://t.co/JzQXKSgIV8

https://t.co/pqZ44REV0D

https://

If you have plastic surgery, these have no serrapeptase

https://t.co/BgaWYHoTBZ

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/B0753TWLG4

 

 

I think this is an important topic, Im certainly open to other ideas/suggestions for viral clearance.

https:/

-Enzymes-Protease-Circulation-Elimination/dp/B07DD261W1

Edited by Gal220, 30 December 2021 - 03:22 PM.

[Gal220]

Worth listening to this interview with Jessica Rose on the VAERS V@x data - LINK

 

There is a timestamp reference at the bottom of the page so you can check out the parts you are interested in.

 

Also additional links on the page with more research 

[Mind]

Israel - one of the most vaccinated and boosted populations on earth - is now entering another big wave of infection (3K cases per day). The COVID shots are not stopping the spread of COVID.

 

 

Israel recorded almost 3,000 new coronavirus cases for the second day in a row, according to data released Wednesday, as the infection rate continued to climb and senior Health Ministry officials were reportedly weighing a switch to a policy of reaching herd immunity through mass infection.

...

For the first time, most Omicron infections were recorded in the community, not in people who recently returned from abroad or those they came in contact with, indicating the true figures are likely much higher than the official ones.

...

In light of the lack of immediate rise in serious illness, Channel 12 news reported Tuesday evening that senior officials in the Health Ministry have recently raised the option of switching to a “mass infection model.”

 

"Mass infection model". The Swedes look smarter every day. They started playing the "long game" early.

[Mind]

Reuters reports that most omicron cases are among vaccinated people. This aligns with the Harvard study and the Danish study that show more vaccinations=more disease spread.

 

Singapore didn't see a huge wave of COVID cases and deaths until AFTER a mass vaccination program. At some point, more people will start asking questions about the COVID shots.

[Mind]

Fair enough. The question arises as to whether this is a good thing in the long run. In the short run, the vaccinated person is protected from severe disease and clears the virus, but does not gain as much new immunity to antigens other than spike. In the long run, this all-eggs-in-one-basket approach could lead to a constant need for new boosters and new vaccines as the spike protein evolves. Natural immunity, on the other hand, will provoke immunity to more viral antigens. Immune escape would require evolution of several proteins at once. Widespread natural immunity is more likely to bring the pandemic to an end than vaccines than contain only spike.

 

There are now at least 141 studies indicating the natural immune response from COVID infection is long-lasting and robust, much more so than the COVID mRNA injections.

[Hip]

There are now at least 141 studies indicating the natural immune response from COVID infection is long-lasting and robust, much more so than the COVID mRNA injections.

 

Why are you quoting Mickey Mouse sources? 

[geo12the]

There are now at least 141 studies indicating the natural immune response from COVID infection is long-lasting and robust, much more so than the COVID mRNA injections.

 

You are wrong. I can dig up studies that say otherwise. Here are personal anecdotes:

 

I month ago I visited my brother's family. His wife had COVID back in February. I asked her why she hasn't been vaxxed and she said "I have natural immunity, I don't need to" I did not have the wherewithal to point out that the overwhelming studies show that vaxed folks are better protected and that the most protected are people who had COVID AND get vaxed. Long story short two weeks later she got COVID again and was quite sick. So much for "natural immunity". My nephew (her son) got COVID fall of 2020, February 2021 and again just got it from his mom December 2021. So he got COVID 3 times. I am very skeptical natural immunity comes close to being as effective as getting a vaccine. But that's the propaganda being spewed out by the right-wing media machine which many folks here, and my sister-in-law, listen to like trained sheep.

Edited by geo12the, 02 January 2022 - 11:57 PM.

[geo12the]

You are wrong. I can dig up studies that say otherwise. Here are personal anecdotes:

I month ago I visited my brother's family. His wife had COVID back in February. I asked her why she hasn't been vaxxed and she said "I have natural immunity, I don't need to" I did not have the wherewithal to point out that the overwhelming studies show that vaxed folks are better protected and that the most protected are people who had COVID AND get vaxed. Long story short two weeks later she got COVID again and was quite sick. So much for "natural immunity". My nephew (her son) got COVID fall of 2020, February 2021 and again just got it from his mom December 2021. So he got COVID 3 times. I am very skeptical natural immunity comes close to being as effective as getting a vaccine. But that's the propaganda being spewed out by the right-wing media machine which many folks here, and my sister-in-law, listen to like trained sheep.

To add more to this story, my sister in law was infected by her teenage daughter who was infected from by a friend. Her daughter was unvaxed. At the same exact time, a teen niece from my spouses side of the family was in close contact on an extended trip with a friend infected with COVID. This niece never tested positive for COVID. This niece happened to be vaccinated.

Edited by geo12the, 03 January 2022 - 04:27 AM.

[Gal220]

Nurses and Insurance warning signals - link1, link2

 

“Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64”. 

 

"More VC Nurses Blow Whistle on ‘Overwhelming’ Numbers of Heart Attacks, Clotting, Strokes"

[Hip]

“Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64”. 

 

This increase in deaths is not unexpected. SARS-CoV-2 is a really nasty virus, which lingers in the organs, possibly for life, and may cause long term ill health effects and premature deaths.

 

A new study showed that SARS-CoV-2 enters almost every organ of the body, and stays there long term. So once you catch it, it may remain alive in your body forever.

 

Healthy people often catch this virus showing no acute symptoms (asymptomatic), so may not even know that they have caught it. This virus can stealthily enter the bodies of millions of people, without them knowing, and then set up home in all their organs, beginning the long term job of potentially slowly eroding their health.  

 

Over 50% of the population have now caught SARS-CoV-2 at some point, and all these people may be ticking time bombs for ill health. By their irresponsible behavior, some risked having an uncharted new virus enter their body, where it may smolder away for the rest of their life (a rather short life in many cases, as we now see, with all these excess deaths).

 

 

If these people had been vaccinated, that would have helped reduced the chances of catching SARS-CoV-2, and likely reduced the damage that SARS-CoV-2 causes in their body if they did catch it. If these people have worn a decent FFP2 or N95 mask, they might have avoided inviting SARS-CoV-2 to be a permanent resident in their body. If they had socially distanced and avoided busy public spaces, they may have kept their body uncontaminated from this persistent virus. 

 

If the 50% of the population with SARS-CoV-2 living in their bodies are now dropping dead in alarming numbers, well, that's the indirect result of all the misinformation posted online about SARS-CoV-2 being no big deal.

 

Ironically, much of this misinformation is also posted on Longecity, a forum which is supposed to be about lengthening life, but people here seem more intent on having a life shortened by SARS-CoV-2. Go figure! 

 

Longecity turned into a pro-death forum!

[Mind]

Why are you quoting Mickey Mouse sources? 

 

You didn't even go to the link. Lol

 

https://www.science....n-remains-vital

 

https://www.medrxiv....9.03.21263103v3

 

https://directorsblo...ainst-covid-19/ (is the director of the NIH Mickey Mouse?, lol)

 

https://www.medrxiv....21258025v1.full

 

Plus 137 more, if you want me to list them.

[Gal220]

This increase in deaths is not unexpected. SARS-CoV-2 is a really nasty virus, which lingers in the organs, possibly for life, and may cause long term ill health effects and premature deaths.

 

If these people had been vaccinated, that would have helped reduced the chances of catching SARS-CoV-2, and likely reduced the damage that SARS-CoV-2 causes in their body if they did catch it. 

 

Viral load is about equivalent with Delta and Omicron data shows the vaccinated are more likely to show symptoms. - link1, link2 

 

But either way, hopefully it is investigated, is it lack of vaccine or b/c of the vaccine? 

So far the CDC has been really good at ignoring the data, Columbia University estimates the VAERs mortality data is off by a factor of 20. - link

 

Myocarditis data gets worse with each passing week(1 in 2700 for Pfizer in boys) - link1, link2

 

Moderna is 3x the dose of Pfizer, most countries are restricting under 30, but we have completely sold out here in the US.

Edited by Gal220, 03 January 2022 - 11:59 PM.

[Hip]

You didn't even go to the link. Lol

 

I did, and the first sentence made me realize it was Mickey Mouse:

 

"We should not force COVID vaccines on anyone when the evidence shows that naturally acquired immunity is equal to or more robust and superior to existing vaccines." Source: here.

 

 

Anyone who has looked into it knows that when you catch COVID, there is around a 1 in 100 chance of getting ME/CFS-type long COVID (a life-long life-destroying illness) even if you are young; and of course there is a good chance of death, which increases with age.

 

And now it seems from Gal220's above link, if you catch SARS-CoV-2, there appears to be a good chance that you may die some months later, given these reports of a 40% increase in deaths in 18 to 64 year olds in Gal220's link (which are not currently being reported as COVID deaths).

 

 

So while infection with SARS-CoV-2 might provide you with natural immunity comparable to the immunity you get from a vaccine (though studies I have seen say vaccine immunity is stronger), you run a massive health risk in acquiring that natural immunity, because of the terrible things that SARS-CoV-2 can do to your body.

 

Therefore if you want to train your immune system to fight SARS-CoV-2, vaccines seem by far the safer alternative. Natural immunity is a very risky strategy.

 

 

 

Whether omicron is also as dangerous as delta remains to be seen though. We know that the risk of death from omicron is around 3 or 4 times less than the risk of death from delta. It will be interesting to see whether omicron has a lower risk of causing long COVID, and lower risk of causing these excess deaths in 18 to 64 year olds.

 

Because omicron is much more infectious, and spreading like wildfire, a lot of people are going to be given natural immunity via omicron whether they like it or not. I just really hope that these people getting natural immunity from omicron do not suffer any long-term consequences. 

Edited by Hip, 04 January 2022 - 12:19 AM.

[DanCG]

Why are you quoting Mickey Mouse sources? 

 

1^st listed reference: authored by a group from the Cleveland Clinic

2^nd: Published in Nature

3^rd: authors from Israel

4^th: authors from Duke-NUS Medical School, Singapore, published in Journal of Experimental Medicine

5^th: published in Nature, Israeli authors

 

Maybe Mickey Mouse is somewhere among the 138 remaining references, but I haven’t found him yet. Although I do have some misgivings about calling a scientific journal ‘Nature’--probably a bunch of hippies (Note to the clueless, the last sentence was sarcasm).

[Hip]

1^st listed reference: authored by a group from the Cleveland Clinic

2^nd: Published in Nature

3^rd: authors from Israel

4^th: authors from Duke-NUS Medical School, Singapore, published in Journal of Experimental Medicine

5^th: published in Nature, Israeli authors

 

Maybe Mickey Mouse is somewhere among the 138 remaining references, but I haven’t found him yet. Although I do have some misgivings about calling a scientific journal ‘Nature’--probably a bunch of hippies (Note to the clueless, the last sentence was sarcasm).

 

In any of those journal references, can you find anyone promoting the idea that natural immunity is a more desirable option to vaccination? 

 

I thought not.

 

It's that idea which is Mickey Mouse, and is promoted in the first sentence of the Mickey Mouse article. 

[DanCG]

 

 

Because omicron is much more infectious, and spreading like wildfire, a lot of people are going to be given natural immunity via omicron whether they like it or not. I just really hope that these people getting natural immunity from omicron do not suffer any long-term consequences. 

I absolutely agree with you on this.  The question of whether natural vs vaccine immunity is better will soon be moot. I really hope that people who have been jabbed 3 or 4 times are still capable of acquiring natural immunity.

[DanCG]

In any of those journal references, can you find anyone promoting the idea that natural immunity is a more desirable option to vaccination? 

 

I thought not.

 

It's that idea which is Mickey Mouse, and is promoted in the first sentence of the Mickey Mouse article. 

It did not take long, 3^rd reference: “This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

 

Here is an interesting result in the 5^th reference: “this study demonstrates individuals who received the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine have different kinetics of antibody levels compared to patients who had been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, with higher initial levels but a much faster exponential decrease in the first group”.

 

Reading on, 6^th reference: Protection against SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection is comparable with the highest available estimates on vaccine efficacies.

 

I will say this: many of the “143 Research Studies” are not studies but instead are news articles or other summaries about actual studies. I would agree that is a Mickey Mouse tactic. Nevertheless, some of these secondary sources are significant.

For example, the 17^th reference was a news article from Science (you may have heard of that journal) which summarized the Israeli study which was the 3^rd reference. One quote: ““It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,”

That article also cited another study: "Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose."

 

There may well be contradictory evidence out there. But the idea that natural immunity is very effective and should be taken into account by policy makers is not some wacky right wing conspiracy theory. At the least, previous infection should be accepted in lieu of vaccination for purposes of workplace safety or public accommodations.

Nobody is advocating deliberately getting infected instead of getting vaccinated.

Also bear in mind that most of these studies were pre-omicron.

[Hip]

It did not take long, 3^rd reference: “This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

 

Saying that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection is not the same as actually advocating natural immunity in place of a vaccine, as the original article posted by Mind seemed to do. 

 

And that original article cherry picked studies, as this study by the CDC found vaccination was hugely more protective than natural immunity.

[Hip]

That article also cited another study: "Nussenzweig’s group has published data showing people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year.

 

By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose."

 

That increasing number of antibodies seen in in those who recover from COVID is one thing; but one new study found that people previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 develop a wide variety of pathogenic autoantibodies up to six months after they have fully recovered. 

 

An earlier study also found lots of autoantibodies in those who have had COVID.

 

 

So once SARS-CoV-2 starts living in your body, making your organs its long-term home, this virus seems to trigger an autoimmune state. Whether this autoimmune state will eventually clear up after a year or so, or whether it might remain and predispose COVID survivors to autoimmune diseases later in life, is not clear.

[Hip]

The increasing number of coronavirus-targeted antibodies that appear in the body in the year after catching SARS-CoV-2 also suggests that this virus remains active and operational in the body. The immune system would not be making new antibodies to the virus one year after the acute infection if the virus had been completely cleared from the body at the end of the acute phase.

 

So this appearance of more and more coronavirus antibodies in the year after catching SARS-CoV-2 indicates the virus is still in the body, and the immune system is struggling to keep SARS-CoV-2 under control. 

 

SARS-CoV-2 has now become a smoldering low-level ongoing infection that may last the rest of your life.

 

What a smoldering virus in all the organs might do to the long-term health of those who caught SARS-CoV-2 remains to be seen.

Edited by Hip, 04 January 2022 - 03:26 PM.

[Mind]

Saying that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection is not the same as actually advocating natural immunity in place of a vaccine, as the original article posted by Mind seemed to do. 

 

And that original article cherry picked studies, as this study by the CDC found vaccination was hugely more protective than natural immunity.

 

From the study:

 

 

 

Laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection was identified among 324 (5.1%) of 6,328 fully vaccinated persons and among 89 of 1,020 (8.7%) unvaccinated, previously infected persons

 

5.1% vs. 8.1% doesn't seem "huge" to me. I would like to seem more recent data than the Summer of last year, considering that in places like Houston 50% of current hospitalizations are coming from injected people, and 10% of those are from people who have been injected with a booster.

[Gal220]

"as this study by the CDC found vaccination was hugely more protective than natural immunity."

 

The largest study done out of Israel found natural immunity is 27x better than the vaccine... amazing they could be so far apart till you look at how the CDC did their study

 

 

Whats worse than the CDC knowingly lie about this fact is that those who have had the infection are 3x more likely to report adverse events, 

so we are intentionally harming people with superior immunity - link

[Hip]

The largest study done out of Israel found natural immunity is 27x better than the vaccine... amazing they could be so far apart  

 

 

You will likely find that the two studies are using different criteria and measures, that's how there is a discrepancy. Don't always assume people are lying (unless they are conspiracy theory websites, which always lie).

 

The art of reading scientific papers is to look carefully at the fine details, not just the headlines.

 

 

 

The Israeli study is here. It has not been peer reviewed, in spite of being published in August 2021. 

 

The Israeli study found that a general population group of people with immunity acquired from a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 13 times less likely to have a SARS-CoV-2 infection than those with vaccine immunity. So that indicates natural immunity being more protective than vaccine immunity from catching a SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

(The figure of 27 you quoted refers only to symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections, but the figure of 13 is more meaningful, as incorporates both symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections).

 

 

 

 

The CDC study by contrast examined a different group of people, people hospitalized with COVID, and thus in many ways a more relevant group, because we are more interested in how different forms of immunity protect against severe hospitalized COVID, rather than how this immunity protects against the many relatively mild or asymptomatic infections that most people in the general population have when they catch SARS-CoV-2.

 

The CDC study examined hospitalized COVID patients, and looked at how many of these were fully vaccinated, compared to how many had a previous case of COVID but were unvaccinated (natural immunity). They found that there were 5 times more natural immunity people in the hospital than vaccine immunity people.

 

 

 

So we can conclude that if you are interested in protecting from serious COVID and death, vaccine immunity is better. If you just want to protect from getting mild COVID, then natural immunity is better. 

Edited by Hip, 05 January 2022 - 01:52 AM.

[DanCG]

The increasing number of coronavirus-targeted antibodies that appear in the body in the year after catching SARS-CoV-2 also suggests that this virus remains active and operational in the body. The immune system would not be making new antibodies to the virus one year after the acute infection if the virus had been completely cleared from the body at the end of the acute phase.

 

 

 

SARS-CoV-2 has now become a smoldering low-level ongoing infection that may last the rest of your life.

 

This certainly seems at first glance to be a reasonable interpretation. Not seeing a fault in it, I thought I would see what the authors of the study had to say about it.

 

 “SARS-CoV-2 infection produces a memory compartment that continues to evolve more than 12 months after infection with accumulation of somatic mutations, emergence of new clones and increasing affinity,  all of which are consistent with long-term persistence of germinal centres. ...Continued antibody evolution in germinal centres requires antigen, which can be retained in these structures over long periods of time29. In addition, SARS-CoV-2 protein and nucleic acids have been reported to remain in the gut for at least two months after infection4. Regardless of the source of the antigen, antibody evolution favours epitopes overlapping with the ACE2-binding site on the RBD, possibly because these are epitopes that are preferentially exposed on trimeric S protein or virus particles.

 

So, they don’t rule out, or even address, “smoldering infection” but that they do suggest that the persistence of viral antigens (not necessarily active virus) would be sufficient to stimulate ongoing affinity maturation of antibodies.

Continued exposure to virus in the wild could also account for the continued selection of antibodies with higher affinity. This possibility was probably not discussed because the study did not include any subjects with known reinfection.

Caveat: the paper was published in June 2021, long before omicron.

[Hip]

So, they don’t rule out, or even address, “smoldering infection” but that they do suggest that the persistence of viral antigens (not necessarily active virus) would be sufficient to stimulate ongoing affinity maturation of antibodies.

I would not think that viral antigens could remain in the body for a year without the presence of an active low-level smoldering infection. The body is always rapidly cleaning out junk, so any old viral proteins from an extinct infection would be cleared quickly.

 

It's probably beyond the interests of most people on this forum, but virologists know that RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2 can form smoldering infections, which are more properly called non-cytolytic infections. 

 

In non-cytolytic infections, the virus lives in a different mode: it no longer lives inside viral shells (viral capsids), but lives as naked viral RNA within human cells. This pure viral RNA inside the cell slowly replicates and slowly spreads to other cells. 

 

These smoldering infections are of a very different nature to the acute lytic infection, and they are very hard to clear from the body. They are able to evade the immune response quite effectively.

 

Non-cytolytic smoldering infections are thought by some researchers to be the cause of type 1 diabetes, heart diseases like cardiomyopathy, motor neuron disease, and the illness I have, ME/CFS. Very few medical professionals even know about non-cytolytic infections.

 

 

 

 

Continued exposure to virus in the wild could also account for the continued selection of antibodies with higher affinity. This possibility was probably not discussed because the study did not include any subjects with known reinfection.

It's a possibility I guess.