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TUDCA gut issues

tudca

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#1 castillo

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 07:08 PM


Anyone knowledgeable on TUDCA? Can someone here explain why it caused GI issues for me? My health history is complicated. Was very debilitated after withdrawing from SSRIs/Short term benzos in 2014. Withdrawal symptoms never really went way. Issues with every function of my body. When each bodily function slowed to a crawl, my bathroom habits became abnormal. Can go 4-7 days without a bowel movement. Stomach making very little acid and have gastritis. Can’t use Betaine HCl or apple cider vinegar to digest food. Body ravaged by SIBO and Candida. Treated with long term anti-microbials.  Somehow the SIBO causes me to hemorrhage non-stop. I’m a female. Anytime I consume probiotics or eat anything too alkaline, I bleed. Short term ACV and anti-microbials slowly stop the bleeds. It becomes very dangerous for me to try new supplements not knowing what will make me bleed out.

As a last ditch effort, I tried TUDCA. Figured years of doctors trying to drug me for every ailment or condition (high antibiotics, birth control pills <—these made me poop gray poop), I figured my liver is sluggish, which could explain my decade long withdrawal symptoms. What I didn’t expect was the effect 1/4 of 250mg TUDCA pill would have on me. It caused painful diarrhea and a bit of heartburn. I took only that one dose two days ago and I still feel like I have IBS attacks. Why this reaction? Is bile not my issue? Ive had a liver ultrasound in 2018 and nothing looked out of sorts since I was worried about damage from withdrawals starting 2014. Is SIBO not allowing TUDCA to work? Maybe the pancreas is my issue. Very bummed about this as I think my liver is not filtering toxins correctly. I vaguely remember my doctor explaining my gene results and how my liver has difficulty with 2 phases. That leaves milk thistle as an option but worried since I am most likely estrogen dominant too and Milk thistle raises estrogen. I am curious if it would be beneficial to try and half that 1/4 dose of TUDCA.  Not sure how to get my life back.


Edited by castillo, 09 June 2022 - 07:20 PM.


#2 Turnbuckle

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 07:53 PM

Most of the serotonin in the body is used outside of the brain. 

 

Serotonin regulates numerous biological processes including cardiovascular function, bowel motility, ejaculatory latency, and bladder control

https://www.ncbi.nlm...cles/PMC5864293

 

 

Stopping it can cause SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome--https://www.verywell...syndrome-378682

 

So instead of taking TUDCA, you might try 5-HTP (a serotonin precursor), and then slowly withdraw from that.



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#3 castillo

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 02:59 AM

Most of the serotonin in the body is used outside of the brain. 

 

 

Stopping it can cause SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome--https://www.verywell...syndrome-378682

 

So instead of taking TUDCA, you might try 5-HTP (a serotonin precursor), and then slowly withdraw from that.

 

Thanks for the reply! I have tried 5-htp multiple times and it is adverse for me as it gives me terrible heart palpitations and derealization.  I believe my problem goes beyond these receptors.  I was also probably floxed by antibiotics so my whole liver/gut system is no longer working normally.



#4 Turnbuckle

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 03:09 AM

Thanks for the reply! I have tried 5-htp multiple times and it is adverse for me as it gives me terrible heart palpitations and derealization.  I believe my problem goes beyond these receptors.  I was also probably floxed by antibiotics so my whole liver/gut system is no longer working normally.

 

If you were prescribed one of the fluoroquinolone mito poisons, then you could have suffered extensive mitochondrial damage, which would affect virtually every organ in the body. I was similarly damaged by statins (which made me feel 90 years old), so I created a protocol to fix it. See this post


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#5 johnhemming

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 05:53 AM

If you were prescribed one of the fluoroquinolone mito poisons, then you could have suffered extensive mitochondrial damage, which would affect virtually every organ in the body. I was similarly damaged by statins (which made me feel 90 years old), so I created a protocol to fix it. See this post

 

Statins are interesting because they inhibit the enzyme which creates cholestorol from cystosolic citrate.  I wonder, however, what else they do.  I was prescribed statins when I was 43 (I am now 62), but I stopped taking them before I was 44.

 

I have not heard of them causing mitochondrial damage.  That is not to say, however, that they don't.  I just don't know.  A very high proportion of people over 50 in the UK are on statins.



#6 Turnbuckle

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 12:07 PM

Statins are interesting because they inhibit the enzyme which creates cholestorol from cystosolic citrate.  I wonder, however, what else they do.  I was prescribed statins when I was 43 (I am now 62), but I stopped taking them before I was 44.

 

I have not heard of them causing mitochondrial damage.  That is not to say, however, that they don't.  I just don't know.  A very high proportion of people over 50 in the UK are on statins.

 

Statins are a scam to begin with, as they are being sold on the basis of relative risk for certain high risk groups, when other groups are actually better off with cholesterol levels that the statin propogandists say are dangerous. See this paper -- Norwegian HUNT 2 study. In particular look at Figs. 1-4, and look at your own sex/BP/smoking/age group to see your relative risk factor from high cholesterol. 

 

Side effects from mitochondrial damage are reported widely by users, but ignored by doctors and the industry. The symptoms, since the involve mito damage that also occurs with age, are hard to distinguish from ordinary aging. Your genetic makeup can make you more sensitive to damage. In my case, I felt that I'd aged decades in a matter of months, and in my mother's case, she developed peripheral neuropathy and had to give up dancing. Her doctor refused to recognize the association, and that is very common, as the usual approach to discover if a drug is affecting you in a negative fashion is to discontinue the drug and see if the situation resolves. But mitochondrial damage can take a very long time to resolve -- sometimes years, and sometimes it will never resolve. 

 

The dangers of statins have been known for a long time, but are buried in a deluge of positive reports from big pharma.

 

See this article from 2004 -- https://www.westonap...ing-medicines/ 

 

This one from 2014 -- https://www.webmd.co...de-effects-news

 

And this one from 2022 -- https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC8818528/

 

With regard to myopathy from statins, the latter article says this --

 

Results
The overall incidence of myopathy among patients taking statins was 27.8%, 31.4% in males and 22.6% in females, the incidence of myopathy was higher in older people, being highest in patients ≥60 years (34%). Bivariate analyses showed no significant association between myopathy and hypothyroidism, diabetes or medications that are known to interact with statins. The incidence of myopathy was highest with Simvastatin 40 mg (50%) and lowest with Fluvastatin XL 80 mg (8%) and Rosuvastatin 10 mg (10.8%).

 

 

Those numbers are horrible, and the incidence of subclinical myopathy is probably much greater. Probably closer to 100%.
 
Bottom line, the risks of statin use are high and the benefits for most people are very low or non-existent. For many otherwise healthy people, the mortality risk from lowering cholesterol will be increased (see Fig. 1 of the HUNT 2 study linked to above). From Fig. 2, it's evident that there is a sweet spot for men that is relatively high, while for women, the higher the cholesterol the better.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 June 2022 - 12:27 PM.


#7 kurt9

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 04:34 PM

One of the reasons why I became very skeptical of the medical establishment well over a decade ago was due to the issue of statins. From a bio-engineering standpoint, statins do not make sense. They interfere with mitochondira, the power houses of biology, to deal with the relatively peripheral issue of cholesterol production. This is like screwing around with the engine of a car to improve the paint job. I agree with Nick Lane (biochemist) in that mitochondria is the basis of all eukaryotic life. The last thing you want to do is to mess with it in anyway that creates damage. This is addition to the papers cited here about the overhyping of cholesterol as a problem in the first place. I came to this realization about statins about 15 years ago.



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#8 johnhemming

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Posted 13 June 2022 - 07:33 PM

With regard to myopathy from statins, 

 

 

Linking through some of the references there are a range of views about statins.

 

There are also varying views about HDL/LDL etc.







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