192 replies to this topic

[WiryLeery]

It is important to acknowledge that business considerations can sometimes influence decisions in the medical field. HCQ, being a generic drug, may have posed challenges in terms of profitability, which could potentially impact the attention and resources allocated to its research and development.

 

However, it's crucial to note that the presence of such business interests does not automatically indicate corruption or malicious intent on the part of healthcare organizations. While biases and conflicts of interest can exist, it's important to rely on solid scientific evidence and peer-reviewed studies to evaluate the safety and efficacy of treatments.

 

The opinions and experiences of frontline medical professionals who directly interact with patients are valuable, but they should be complemented with rigorous scientific research and expert consensus to ensure comprehensive decision-making and patient care.

 

Based on meta-analyses published since, it does not appear HCQ would have saved many lives. And its use (prophylactic or otherwise) may have proved problematic in many cases.

[pamojja]

https://www.bitchute...o/JfMhP5siqPYZ/

[Florin]

Your statements about masks are disingenuous. You know very well that government officials told white lies about masks being useless in order to protect the limited supply for frontline hospital staff. The same was said in the UK, by our own officials. The same may have occurred in other countries too.

 

Your white lie theory doesn't explain why they didn't suggest surgical or cloth masks. They could have easily mentioned that N95s are overkill because they know covid isn't airborne (another early blunder on their part which took forever to correct). N95s were only recommended in hospitals in order to avoid transmission via aerosol-generating procedures such as intubation.

Edited by Florin, 21 June 2023 - 01:57 AM.

[Mind]

I repeat, Dr. Fauci is a megalomaniac and a liar. Emails reveal he was briefed about all of the novel coronaviruses (dozens) created at the Wuhan Institute of Virology - BEFORE he went on TV and said it was ridiculous to believe in the "lab leak".

 

In a sane world Dr. Fauci should have been fired, criminally prosecuted, and in prison by now. Are we living in some sort-of bizarro simulation? Dr. Fauci is a proven liar. He gave out pandemic advice that was utterly disastrous and a failure, yet he is still on TV giving out pandemic advice to this day! What the hell is going on? Will there be any accountability? Where is Congress? Where is the DOJ? Where are the professional medical societies calling for his prosecution?

[Daniel Cooper]

I think a lot of Dr. Fauci's behavior is explained by the fact that he knew there was a pretty decent chance that sars-cov-2 had been created at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and he knew he was culpable for funding some of that. I suspect as soon as he heard that a new and deadly bat derived coronavirus had originated in Wuhan a chill probably went up his spine as he was well aware what the implications of that potentially were.

 

I think this explains a lot of his response - the prevarications, the denials that the virus could even possibly have originated at WIV, the rush to embrace a brand new vaccine, the lockdowns, the mandates, etc. I think he was hoping against all logic that this thing might be shut down before it went global in a big way. The scientific side of him had to know that was never in the cards, but the emotional side that didn't want to face the potential blame overrode the science.

 

 

Edited by Daniel Cooper, 05 September 2023 - 09:12 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

I think a lot of Dr. Fauci's behavior is explained by the fact that he knew there was a pretty decent chance that sars-cov-2 had been created at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and he knew he was culpable for funding some of that. I suspect as soon as he heard that a new and deadly bat derived coronavirus had originated in Wuhan a chill probably went up his spine as he was well aware what the implications of that potentially were.

 

I think this explains a lot of his response - the prevarications, the denials that the virus could even possibly have originated at WIV, the rush to embrace a brand new vaccine, the lockdowns, the mandates, etc. I think he was hoping against all logic that this thing might be shut down before it went global in a big way. The scientific side of him had to know that was never in the cards, but the emotional side that didn't want to face the potential blame overrode the science.

 

Abs-a-friggin-lutely!  24,642,757 square miles of habitable land on planet earth, & this bug pops up within walking distance of Fauci & Friends level-4 BIOLAB?  I think most everyone had at least a subconscious fear this was a Pandora's Box event.  

 

Don't know if I could forgive a foolish mistake like that, but I KNOW I'll never forgive his sabotage of outpatient treatment.  Slamming the door in the face of millions of frightened seniors has got to be one of the sickest medical power plays in history.  I'm not particularly frightened of death, but I'll never forget going to bed every night & wondering if I was going to wake up sick in the dead of night.  Can only imagine what would be going through my mind, knowing there was no one to call and nothing to do but sit watching the clock while my symptoms got worse.  

 

I hope I outlive him, just for the schadenfreude of hearing the news...  Tormentor of humans and animals alike has finally fallen off the twig.  

[Dorian Grey]

The disillusioned Dr John Campbell does a deep dive into GLOBAL corruption between Big Pharma and the government alphabet agencies.  

 

https://youtu.be/K-k...-dcSI8nVM7kbA80

 

It's actually quite good. 

 

New paper out: From FDA to MHRA: are drug regulators for hire?  https://www.bmj.com/...t/377/bmj.o1538

 

Cheers!

[Daniel Cooper]

Abs-a-friggin-lutely!  24,642,757 square miles of habitable land on planet earth, & this bug pops up within walking distance of Fauci & Friends level-4 BIOLAB?  I think most everyone had at least a subconscious fear this was a Pandora's Box event.  

 

 

Not just a Fauci & Friend's Level-4 Biolab - but a lab where the "Bat Lady" is in residence that had published a paper five years earlier about adding "novel spike proteins" to a bat coronavirus. They were clearly doing exactly the sort of research that would logically lead to something like sars-cov-2. You really have to believe in some remarkable confluence of coincidences to think this came out of a wetmarket rather than that lab.

 

Also, this is why you must actively go after bureaucrats that violate the law as Fauci clearly did in funding WIV's gain of function research through EcoHealth Alliance. The reason being, Fauci's entire response to covid-19 may be colored by his illegal funding of this research and his desire to cover that up, rather than an honest fact based assessment of the best course of action.

 

Unfortunately, we really don't much go after people in the very upper echelons any more. They live in a sort of "no fault" world that the rest of us don't reside in.

[joesixpack]

Abs-a-friggin-lutely!  24,642,757 square miles of habitable land on planet earth, & this bug pops up within walking distance of Fauci & Friends level-4 BIOLAB?  I think most everyone had at least a subconscious fear this was a Pandora's Box event.  

 

Don't know if I could forgive a foolish mistake like that, but I KNOW I'll never forgive his sabotage of outpatient treatment.  Slamming the door in the face of millions of frightened seniors has got to be one of the sickest medical power plays in history.  I'm not particularly frightened of death, but I'll never forget going to bed every night & wondering if I was going to wake up sick in the dead of night.  Can only imagine what would be going through my mind, knowing there was no one to call and nothing to do but sit watching the clock while my symptoms got worse.  

 

I hope I outlive him, just for the schadenfreude of hearing the news...  Tormentor of humans and animals alike has finally fallen off the twig.  

 

The best revenge is to out live them. Done it a few times in my career.

[Hip]

4,642,757 square miles of habitable land on planet earth, & this bug pops up within walking distance of Fauci & Friends level-4 BIOLAB?

 

Isn't that statement in contradiction with assertions made by other COVID rejectionists on this forum?

 

Mind for example mentioned evidence for COVID being present in Europe and China months before the outbreak in Wuhan. Mind strongly believes the virus was spreading around the world long before first cases in Wuhan in December 2019, and has said so many times. 

 

Yet Mind has also posted on this thread about the idea that gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab was the origin of COVID — which is in contradiction to Mind's view that COVID was spreading around the world long before the Wuhan outbreak.

 

If you believe the virus was spreading around the world before the Wuhan cases, then obviously those Wuhan cases could not have been the origin of the outbreak.

 

Edited by Hip, 09 September 2023 - 08:47 PM.

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Isn't that statement in contradiction with assertions made by other COVID rejectionists on this forum?

 

Mind for example mentioned evidence for COVID being present in Europe and China months before the outbreak in Wuhan. Mind strongly believes the virus was spreading around the world long before first cases in Wuhan in December 2019, and has said so many times. 

 

Yet Mind has also posted on this thread about the idea that gain-of-function research at the Wuhan lab was the origin of COVID — which is in contradiction to Mind's view that COVID was spreading around the world long before the Wuhan outbreak.

 

If you believe the virus was spreading around the world before the Wuhan cases, then obviously those Wuhan cases could not have been the origin of the outbreak.

 

Hip, I suggest you carefully read through what you have written, and make the appropriate corrections before your edit-time window runs out. If you insist on keeping what you have written, then prepare to be schooled.

[Hip]

Hip, I suggest you carefully read through what you have written, and make the appropriate corrections before your edit-time window runs out. If you insist on keeping what you have written, then prepare to be schooled.

 

Don't tell me, you are going to deploy more anally retentive pedantry. Pedantry is all very well, but consider discussing the relevant science rather than playing word games.

Edited by Hip, 09 September 2023 - 11:22 PM.

[Daniel Cooper]

Ok guys, lets cool down the rhetoric before it gets out of hand.

 

 

[Mind]

In congressional testimony, a whistleblower claims that Dr. Fauci was having secret meetings with the CIA (likely breaking the law by not keeping meeting logs/records) while the lab-leak story was breaking. We all know how it went down. To most astute observers, it was obviously a lab leak. The natural origin story was only remotely possible. But after meeting with Collins, a select group of scientists, and the CIA, Fauci tried to crush the lab leak theory.

 

I don't know if anyone realizes how corrupt the US government is. Dr. Fauci needs to be criminally prosecuted for all of the lies but who is going to do it. The DOJ? Ha ha ROFL!!!! We are in dangerous territory. There is no check upon the corrupt leaders of the US. No where to turn.

[Daniel Cooper]

The way Fauci quickly moved to a stance of ridiculing any suggestion that covid-19 had originated from the WIV was a dead give away. And his promotion of the Pangolin theory even beyond the point where the Chinese had given up on it put an exclamation point on it.

 

The entire US response to covid-19 was tainted by the fact that Fauci had been funding then illegal gain of function research through the EcoHealth Alliance at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Fauci was never a disinterested scientist as he like to portray himself in this whole endeavor. He had a personal stake from the moment the pandemic became public.

 

An accident at WIV was always a scientifically valid theory. Period. Full Stop. There was never a scientific reason to take that possibility off the table, and indeed it was a better explanation on it's merit for certain aspects of the pandemic - like the fact that the very first variant that appeared on the scene was highly adapted and well primed for human - human infection. Normally a virus that jumps a species barrier as suggested in the Pangolin theory takes some time before it becomes well optimized for human - human infection. Not with covid-19.

 

On the question of whether Fauci will ever have to account for his role in this ... highly unlikely. The upper echelon of the federal bureaucracy is quite adept at protecting their own and it is rare that someone at Fauci's pay grade is ever called to account. And in any case, the Federal government quickly became highly invested in the story that Dr. Fauci was weaving for a number of reasons. They will have no interest in revealing Dr. Fauci's lies and prevarications. 

[Mind]

Dr. Fauci was encouraging top officials to converse via private email regarding the evolution of the COVID panic. Another crime. No one is doing anything about it. It should not be a surprise that no one trusts "public health" in the US anymore.

[Daniel Cooper]

Dr. Fauci was encouraging top officials to converse via private email regarding the evolution of the COVID panic. Another crime. No one is doing anything about it. It should not be a surprise that no one trusts "public health" in the US anymore.

 

I love this guy's statement in the middle of this email:

 

 

My feeling about this is that I have nothing to hide or worry about, and that my views are based on scientific evidence, and I am comfortable in explaining and defending those.

 

This statement comes immediately after he's gone to lengths to explain that he requests that correspondence of a sensitive nature be sent to his personal gmail address and that he has retrained no documents (meaning he has destroyed documents) that might lead other members of ASTMH to be approached for similar document production.

 

In other words, I have nothing to hide but I'm doing my damnest to put any inconvenient documents beyond the reach of a FOIA request or subpoena.

 

Now that's some chutzpah.

 

I personally think that any government official that has gone to any effort to put official information out of reach of a Freedom of Information Act request or any Congressional or judicial subpoena should be locked up. That would most certainly including steering problematic emails away from .gov accounts and towards private email and definitely any document destruction of any sort.

 

The US taxpayers are paying these people's salaries and funding their research. They have a right to the information.

 

In a just world a lot of these guys would be sitting in the dock right now.

[Mind]

No surprise here, an NIAID director was telling people to delete government documents - which is a crime. Was it Dr. Fauci? Was he directing this? It would not surprise me considering all of his other criminal actions.

 

It is depressing to see so many people still worshipping Dr. Fauci, considering his involvement in the gain-of-function research, his criminal activity to cover it up, his flip-flopping on pandemic control measures, his behind the scenes attacks on differing valid scientific viewpoints, etc... I can't understand it. It is all in the public record - yet some people still worship him like a deity. Depressing.

[Daniel Cooper]

No surprise here, an NIAID director was telling people to delete government documents - which is a crime. Was it Dr. Fauci? Was he directing this? It would not surprise me considering all of his other criminal actions.

 

It is depressing to see so many people still worshipping Dr. Fauci, considering his involvement in the gain-of-function research, his criminal activity to cover it up, his flip-flopping on pandemic control measures, his behind the scenes attacks on differing valid scientific viewpoints, etc... I can't understand it. It is all in the public record - yet some people still worship him like a deity. Depressing.

 

Fauci is teflon because to go after his incorrect statements, out and out lies, and violations of then in force US laws would require that many of the politicians and those in the media that participated in his deification would have to admit they were wrong.

 

I'm not holding my breath.

 

Unfortunately giving Fauci a pass may well put us on a path towards the next and potentially more dangerous pandemic as a result of continued gain of function research.

 

You wonder if Fauci himself ever loses any sleep over the fact that his funding of gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology may well have had a role in the deaths of literally millions of people?

 

As the man that "represents Science" I suspect the answer to that is a "no".

 

 

 

[pamojja]

ByJoe Mercola: https://articles.mer...ad-of-the-snake

 

 

Story at-a-glance

• Pascal Najadi, son of World Economic Forum (WEF) cofounder Hussain Najadi, is calling on the Swiss authorities to arrest the leaders of the World Economic Forum, the World Health Organization and GAVI, all of which are headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, as well as Big Tech and Big Pharma executives, for injecting a bioweapon into 5.7 billion people
• In 2022, Najadi filed criminal charges against Swiss president Alain Berset for misleading the Swiss people about the COVID shots
• Najadi has also filed a civil case against Pfizer at the New York Supreme Court for harm done to him by the Pfizer COVID injection
• GAVI, founded by Bill Gates, has diplomatic immunity in Switzerland, and its immunity clauses go beyond even that of diplomats. GAVI’s immunity covers all aspects of engagement, including criminal business dealings. They can do whatever they want without repercussions. GAVI is also completely tax exempt
• Another Gates-founded and funded organization headquartered in Geneva — the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria — also has diplomatic immunity

 

 

[Mind]

David Martin has compiled a history of how the US funded and developed gain-of-function research - specifically for coronaviruses.

 

The pdf has devastating and illuminating documentation to implicate the US government in this whole fiasco.

 

Just one quote that should open your eyes:

 

 

“Daszak reiterated that, until an infectious disease crisis is very real, present, and at an emergency threshold, it is often largely ignored. To sustain the funding base beyond the crisis, he said, we need to increase public understanding of the need for MCMs (medical countermeasures) such as a pan-influenza or pan-coronavirus vaccine. A key driver is the media, and the economics follow the hype. We need to use that hype to sour advantage to get to the real issues. Investors will respond if they see profit at the end of process,’ Daszak stated.”

 

That was in 2015! The US media (consciously complicit in this scheme or not) did its job - spreading unscientific irrational fear porn during the COVID panic - for a virus with an IFR on par with the flu - less than one tenth of one percent for people under 70.

[Florin]

The US media (consciously complicit in this scheme or not) did its job - spreading unscientific irrational fear porn during the COVID panic - for a virus with an IFR on par with the flu - less than one tenth of one percent for people under 70.

 

This is almost certainly false. Even for much younger people, the risk of dying of covid was way higher than dying of the flu. At most, only about 50k die in the US during a bad flu season.

 

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age

01/01/2020 - 09/23/2023

 

30-39 years: 19,886
35-44 years: 30,108
40-49 years: 46,260
45-54 years: 71,388
50-64 years: 203,071
55-64 years: 159,712
65-74 years: 256,806
75-84 years: 300,162
85 years and over: 311,863

 

https://data.cdc.gov...hcku/about_data

[pamojja]

That's because other unrelated deaths with positive test without even symptoms were counted as covid-deaths and for fear porn.

 

Or the virus on the diamond princess - 3600 subjects of the most vulnerable population all under ideal infection conditions, only 7 died on board of a total of 1000 infected.- was a completely other animal. Not even a tenth of a percent in a vulnerable population.

 

Even Fauci published a study at the beginning, that corona might turn out with a low mortality as the flu.

 

 

 

 

 

[Florin]

That's because other unrelated deaths with positive test without even symptoms were counted as covid-deaths and for fear porn.

 

Or the virus on the diamond princess - 3600 subjects of the most vulnerable population all under ideal infection conditions, only 7 died on board of a total of 1000 infected.- was a completely other animal. Not even a tenth of a percent in a vulnerable population.

 

Even Fauci published a study at the beginning, that corona might turn out with a low mortality as the flu.

 

Do you have any good evidence of widespread covid reporting fraud?

 

I suspect that excess deaths and covid deaths match up fairly well, and if they didn't, we'd know by now. IIRC, I may have looked into this earlier in the pandemic and concluded that they do match up, but I haven't looked into it recently.

 

If covid didn't cause over 1 million excess deaths in the US and many more millions outside the US, what caused these deaths?

Edited by Florin, 16 December 2023 - 02:09 AM.

[pamojja]

No excess deaths in most countries. I don't need evidence, I followed how during the pandemic all formerly for primary diseases counted deaths were suddenly counted as Covid deaths only, even without any symptoms. That change in policy is official.

 

But you don't have to believe, just take the alternative and consider the Diamond-Princess virus a different animal?

 

 

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 17 December 2023 - 12:12 PM.

[Florin]

You don't think there were more deaths than usual, or do you think that excess deaths were caused by diseases other than covid? If you think all excess deaths stats are false, we have nothing to discuss. If you think excess deaths were caused by diseases other than covid, why did they suddenly increase? What caused the massive wave of death in Italy and New York City at the beginning of the pandemic?

 

What happened on the Diamond Princess wouldn't necessarily apply to what happens in the rest of the world for reasons besides the nature of the virus.

[Mind]

You don't think there were more deaths than usual, or do you think that excess deaths were caused by diseases other than covid? If you think all excess deaths stats are false, we have nothing to discuss. If you think excess deaths were caused by diseases other than covid, why did they suddenly increase? What caused the massive wave of death in Italy and New York City at the beginning of the pandemic?

 

What happened on the Diamond Princess wouldn't necessarily apply to what happens in the rest of the world for reasons besides the nature of the virus.

 

These were mostly iatrogenic deaths. Recall that people were put on ventilators by default, instead of getting normal pneumonia care, even though the mortality rate of those put on ventilators was in the 80to 90 percent range.

 

Many patients were also given Remdesivir, which is well known to be toxic to many organ systems.

 

In addition, the fear, loneliness, depression, and anxiety that was a direct result of the pandemic measures likely produced widespread severely depressed immune systems among large swaths' the population. It is well known in the medical literature (for decades) that lower immune function correlates with much higher mortality.

 

Dr. Fauci (and the "western" public health establishment) either knew that the pandemic measures would likely not be beneficial or they were told as such. They ignored a good portion of the advice that could have saved a lot of people. Not only that, they went on a vicious campaign to destroy all of the professionals that disagreed with their "commandments". Dr. Fauci committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

[joesixpack]

Here is an article that did not get much circulation, that details many of the lies committed by the now discredited media.

 

https://www.tabletma...d-alex-gutentag

[Hip]

No excess deaths in most countries. I don't need evidence, I followed how during the pandemic all formerly for primary diseases counted deaths were suddenly counted as Covid deaths only, even without any symptoms. That change in policy is official.

 

Clearly you are clueless about what excess deaths means, with that rather confused statement.

 

It's irrelevant how COVID deaths are defined, that does not make one iota of difference to how excess deaths are counted.

 

Do yourself a favour, and look up what excess deaths means, and how they are calculated. 

 

Denying that there were excess deaths during the pandemic is literally insane; all the data shows massive amounts of excess deaths in multiple countries when COVID hit. How can you make statements like "no excess deaths" which are so detached from reality?

Edited by Hip, 18 December 2023 - 08:40 PM.

[Florin]

These were mostly iatrogenic deaths. Recall that people were put on ventilators by default, instead of getting normal pneumonia care, even though the mortality rate of those put on ventilators was in the 80to 90 percent range.

 

Many patients were also given Remdesivir, which is well known to be toxic to many organ systems.

 

In addition, the fear, loneliness, depression, and anxiety that was a direct result of the pandemic measures likely produced widespread severely depressed immune systems among large swaths' the population. It is well known in the medical literature (for decades) that lower immune function correlates with much higher mortality.

 

Dr. Fauci (and the "western" public health establishment) either knew that the pandemic measures would likely not be beneficial or they were told as such. They ignored a good portion of the advice that could have saved a lot of people. Not only that, they went on a vicious campaign to destroy all of the professionals that disagreed with their "commandments". Dr. Fauci committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

 

Why would most doctors nearly everywhere not follow the standard of care for everything else except for covid?

 

Remdesivir was approved in Q4 2020 in the US, and didn't become instantly available worldwide anyway.

 

Is there any good evidence that psychological factors caused millions of deaths?

 

I agree that public health officials like Fauci should be held accountable, if that's legally possible, but OTOH, the necessary and direct cause of excess deaths is covid. Without covid, there would be no excess deaths. Sure, expert incompetence is a significant factor (e.g., respirator use wasn't recommended), but when someone dies in a poison gas attack, the direct cause of death is "poison gas," not "failing to wear a gas mask."