18 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

News Flash: You may recall, Paxlovid was originally trialed only on unvaccinated patients, in the pre-omicron era.  Results were impressive, with an 86% reduction in hospitalization or death in high-risk, outpatient adults.  How's old Pax doing these days, in those who were vaccinated or infected & recovered getting omicron today?  Don't get too excited about the wonder drug, unless you're prepared for disappointment.  

 

https://www.webmd.co...-covid-variants

 

Paxlovid Weaker Against Current COVID-19 Variants

 

Sept. 22, 2023 -- A real-world study published in JAMA Open Network found that Pfizer's COVID-19 antiviral Paxlovid is now less effective at preventing hospitalization or death in high-risk patients as compared to earlier studies.

 

Paxlovid was about 37% effective at preventing death or hospitalization in high-risk patients compared to no treatment.

 

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Don't know if Pax's effectiveness was exaggerated from the get-go, due to the trial only on unvaccinated / COVID Naive patients; but if you are high risk, or want something more effective, you might wish to explore other options, or plan on combining Pax with another therapeutic.  

 

I imagine if you don't recognize your initial symptoms, get prompt response and action from your GP & get started on the med within 2-3 days, effectiveness might be even worse.  I tried to get some Pax from my GP, & he didn't call in the scrip till almost sundown on day 4.  Fortunately, I had some HCQ & Zinc Sulfate standing by, and was largely recovered by the time the Paxlovid arrived.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 22 September 2023 - 11:06 PM.

[ChooseAName]

37% here, 10% here, another 10% there... in the absence of a completely effective treatment, combining partially effective treatments seems like the way to go.

[joesixpack]

So, Dorian, did you take the paxlovid and if so, any adverse reactions?

 

[Dorian Grey]

So, Dorian, did you take the paxlovid and if so, any adverse reactions?

 

No, I'm a big believer in the Zink + Iolophore (Zelenko) theory of suppression of viral replication.  I started on quinine & zinc sulfate the moment I became feverish, before i ever even tested positive.  Detailed my experience here (half way down the page "COVID 2, the sequel!"): 

 

https://www.longecit...a-ma-my-corona/

 

I decided to get the Paxlovid for my wife, as I assumed she would get this (COVID) from me, & the wife is not so keen on alternative therapeutics.  One of the problems I saw with Paxlovid early on, was the issue of getting started on the med in a timely manner.  The clinical trials seem to indicate a window of up to 5 days post symptom onset, but I can't help but think it would be far better to get started on the med within 3 days.  

 

Crazy thing was, my wife didn't get sick!  We didn't even try to isolate all that well, as we just assumed resistance was futile.  I woke up with a scratchy throat on Sunday September 10th, & we went out to dinner that evening.  Sat across a very small table & talked for an hour and a half.  I didn't pop a fever till the next morning, but I did experience symptoms for 12 hours before our dinner date.  

 

The Pax is sitting in the medicine cabinet, waiting for the wife's next encounter with plague.  My lightning fast recovery with quinine & zinc sulfate, has me sold on this as my go-to tonic.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 25 September 2023 - 06:32 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

More Paxlovid shenanigans going on with Long Covid trials.

 

Vinay Prasad, (MD MPH; Physician & Professor Hematologist/ Oncologist Professor of Epidemiology, Biostatistics and Medicine Author of 450+ Peer Reviewed papers, 2 Books, 2 Podcasts, 100+ op-eds)  Does a fantastic job of explaining how pathetically underpowered trials are going to boost Paxlovid sales even higher than they already are.       

 

https://youtu.be/D4N...0sjhCmT927QhiTF

 

This is one of the best tutorials I've had on RCTs, & how they can be manipulated.  23 minutes to a smarter you!  

[Gal220]

Dr. Drew was really talking Paxlovid up in a recent interview

 

McCullough claims to use it also, but says the nasal spray/gargle is the most effective part of what he prescribes

 

 

Interview, start in at 6:04

 

Edited by Gal220, 22 October 2023 - 10:36 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for this Gal, I've always liked Dr Drew.  Interesting he's poo-pooing IVM & HCQ in favor of Paxlovid, but it is a legitimate COVID outpatient therapeutic, and a lot of folks have been distancing themselves from the controversial meds now that COVID has softened into a kinder, gentler virus.  

 

I think the pharmocracy knew all along, if they just played rope-a-dope long enough, the alternative med champions would wear themselves down.  I still bring up the fact there really never was ANY legitimate world class EARLY (2-5 days Tamiflu/Paxlovid model), risk stratified/outpatient RCTs done with HCQ or IVM.  The docs howl with laughter & insist early trials certainly must have been done, but when I challenge them to produce it, they come up largely empty handed.  One will come up with the Together Trial, which accepted patients symptomatic up to 8 days, and another is some trial in Brazil that accepted patients symptomatic up to 7 days, but had a small cohort of 4 day patients who didn't seem to get any benefit.  Problem was, the median age was 45, and they didn't have a single patient over 56.  

 

They all fall back on "oh well, we've got Paxlovid now anyway".  Yep, we've got good old Pax...  Dozens of interactions, a few nasty side effects, and notorious rebounds; not to mention the greatly exaggerated usefulness outside of geriatrics.  

[Gal220]

I have been impressed with the guests Dr. Drew is willing to interview, not so much with Dr. Drew

[joesixpack]

Thanks for this Gal, I've always liked Dr Drew.  Interesting he's poo-pooing IVM & HCQ in favor of Paxlovid, but it is a legitimate COVID outpatient therapeutic, and a lot of folks have been distancing themselves from the controversial meds now that COVID has softened into a kinder, gentler virus.  

 

I think the pharmocracy knew all along, if they just played rope-a-dope long enough, the alternative med champions would wear themselves down.  I still bring up the fact there really never was ANY legitimate world class EARLY (2-5 days Tamiflu/Paxlovid model), risk stratified/outpatient RCTs done with HCQ or IVM.  The docs howl with laughter & insist early trials certainly must have been done, but when I challenge them to produce it, they come up largely empty handed.  One will come up with the Together Trial, which accepted patients symptomatic up to 8 days, and another is some trial in Brazil that accepted patients symptomatic up to 7 days, but had a small cohort of 4 day patients who didn't seem to get any benefit.  Problem was, the median age was 45, and they didn't have a single patient over 56.  

 

They all fall back on "oh well, we've got Paxlovid now anyway".  Yep, we've got good old Pax...  Dozens of interactions, a few nasty side effects, and notorious rebounds; not to mention the greatly exaggerated usefulness outside of geriatrics.  

 

I agree with you. It is interesting that there seems to be general agreement that Paxlovid is an effective therapeutic. My understanding of the Rule/Law/Practice surrounding the issuance of an EUA for an experimental vaccine, is the absence of an effective therapeutic for the disease. So, why do the vaccines continue under EUA's?

[Gal220]

I still bring up the fact there really never was ANY legitimate world class EARLY (2-5 days Tamiflu/Paxlovid model), risk stratified/outpatient RCTs done with HCQ or IVM. 

 

Dr Fareed and Tyson recorded many of their patients who recieved early treatment. From the video, several were in obvious poor health.

 

Video links

https://twitter.com/...ped_query&f=top

 

Unless Dr. Fauci said it was legit(Remdesivir), the media seemed to ignore the doctors who were having success

 

They all interviewed the Covid Hunter, Dr. Joseph Varon, but as he said in one interview, they would never mention his protocol of Ivermectin.

 

Video link

https://rumble.com/v...ed-media-l.html

Edited by Gal220, 23 October 2023 - 06:08 AM.

[joesixpack]

Anyway, I did not use the Paxlovid, because, by the time I got it, I was 3 days into the FLCCC protocol with Ivermectin and HCQ. I had 2 bad days after I tested positive, and then 3 days of better recovery. I had some more days of recovery, but nothing really bad, so I never took it. 

 

Saving it for a rainy day.

[Dorian Grey]

Anyway, I did not use the Paxlovid, because, by the time I got it, I was 3 days into the FLCCC protocol with Ivermectin and HCQ. I had 2 bad days after I tested positive, and then 3 days of better recovery. I had some more days of recovery, but nothing really bad, so I never took it. 

 

Saving it for a rainy day.

 

Looks like we've had the exact same experience.  We really need something standing-by, in house to start on literally day 1 or 2 of symptoms.  I don't think anything, HCQ, IVM or Pax would be nearly as effective if we wait till day 3, 4, or 5.  Don't know if one is better than the other, but ANYTHING taken EARLY beats leaving the virus to do its thing for the better part of a week.  

[Dorian Grey]

Hokey Smokes Bullwinkle!  https://www.medscape...cle/998420?src=

 

COVID-19 Antivirals Can Trigger Viral Rebound, Study Finds

MedScape 11/13/2023

 

COVID-19 antivirals can trigger viral rebound in ambulatory patients, according to an analysis published on November 14, 2023 in Annals of Internal Medicine.

 

 

• One in 5 people (15 in 72, 20%) who took N-R had viral rebound compared with just 1 in 55 people who did not.

• • People who had received N-R and eventually experienced a rebound showed viral shedding for a median of 14 days compared with a median of 3 days among people who did not rebound who were also taking the drug.

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This is insane!  20% rebound with Pax, & shedding for two weeks rather than only 3 days?  This stuff should be banned!  

Got Hydroxychloroquine?  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 14 November 2023 - 03:10 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

News Flash...  Scientists are detecting high levels of COVID coronavirus in sewage water, so...  They are flushing half a billion British pounds worth of Paxlovid down the drain!  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-161424135.html

 

At least £550 million of Covid drugs wasted in the UK

 

"more than one million courses of the antiviral have now expired in the UK, according to a report from the health analytics firm Airfinty. That figure could surge to 2.2 million by the end of June – equivalent to £1.1 billion worth of wasted drugs."

 

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Oh well...  Who wants problematic Pax anyway.  The only drug that turns a 5 day (zinc + ionophore) hassle into a month long rebounding misery.  

[joesixpack]

News Flash...  Scientists are detecting high levels of COVID coronavirus in sewage water, so...  They are flushing half a billion British pounds worth of Paxlovid down the drain!  

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-161424135.html

 

At least £550 million of Covid drugs wasted in the UK

 

"more than one million courses of the antiviral have now expired in the UK, according to a report from the health analytics firm Airfinty. That figure could surge to 2.2 million by the end of June – equivalent to £1.1 billion worth of wasted drugs."

 

---------------------------

 

Oh well...  Who wants problematic Pax anyway.  The only drug that turns a 5 day (zinc + ionophore) hassle into a month long rebounding misery.  

They limited the availability of Paxlovid and maybe should not have. On the other hand it does not seem to work well due to the rebound effect. Anyway, I have a course of it available, I took Ivermectin and HCQ when I tested positive with no problems. Tried for the the Pax, but got it too late. No problems with my course of medicating.

 

The next question, are they ordering more up to date versions of  Pax or just packing it in. 

 

I suggest going to an online pharmacy and ordering the FLCCC protocol for Covid, Flu and RSV. Seems to work. For Covid mainly HCQ, IVT, zinc, vitamins, NAC and a number other things. Not a big deal. Google FLCCC. Imagine that.

[Dorian Grey]

Pax 2024 Update:  Still lookin' puny.  

 

https://www.medscape...24a10006gb?src=

 

Study Shows Nirmatrelvir–Ritonavir No More Effective Than Placebo for COVID-19 Symptom Relief

 

"Paxlovid does not significantly alleviate symptoms of COVID-19 compared with placebo among nonhospitalized adults, a new study published on April 3 in The New England Journal of Medicine found"

 

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What I found shocking was...  "The median time to sustained alleviation of symptoms was 12 days for the Paxlovid group compared with 13 days in the placebo group"

 

WHAT!?!?  Who's symptomatic with omicron for 12-13 days?  Not me!  I take Zelenko's protocol and am walking on the sunny side of the street in 3-5.  

 

[Mind]

Just think about all the new billionaires that were minted during the COVID panic, through the mass government purchase of drugs that don't work - Paxlovid - Remdesivir - the mRNA injections, etc.... 

[Daniel Cooper]

Just think about all the new billionaires that were minted during the COVID panic, through the mass government purchase of drugs that don't work - Paxlovid - Remdesivir - the mRNA injections, etc.... 

 

Remdesivir was particularly egregious. There was scant evidence at the time it was promoted that it did anything positive. That compound has been a cure in search of a disease for a decade or two now.

[Hip]

 That compound has been a cure in search of a disease for a decade or two now.

 

Remdesivir and its active metabolite GS-441524 are highly effective for the viral cat disease called feline infectious peritonitis (FIP), which is caused by feline coronavirus.

 

FIP is normally incurable, and always fatal for the cat. But owners who obtain some remdesivir or GS-441524 find it usually cures the cat.