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CI 2023 Annual Meeting - Cryonics Monitoring to Prevent Unattended Deanimation

wearable devices monitoring vital signs

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#1 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 08 October 2023 - 02:05 PM


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtAnD1nr8EQ&t=3939s

 

Some promising advances from https://www.cryonicsmonitoring.org. The main benefit over the current CI phone app is that the alarm/alert could go off when you're sleeping too.

 


Edited by MaximilianKohler, 08 October 2023 - 02:06 PM.


#2 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 24 October 2023 - 08:33 PM

The remaining question is who will be alerted by the app/device? It's vital that an entity is able to respond immediately and be able to enter the person's home.

I suspect that most people have a friend or relative as the first person (and that person then contacts CI/Alcor/Oregon Cryo), but I think a service/institution is much more reliable. Relatives often don't support a person's cryonics wishes, and the relative may die first and thus not be available to notify anyone. If the relative doesn't live nearby, then the relative contacting the police (for a wellness check) is insufficient since the police do not have a way to enter the home.

Since I am signed up with SA (Suspended Animation), and live near them, I was thinking that having someone at SA notified by the app and notifying them about a hidden key location would be the best. But SA tells me that they don't accept being the first person to be notified by the CI app.

SA doesn't even get directly contacted by CI/Alcor. They are using a 3rd party answering service as a middleman. They said that their answering service needs to be contacted by a person - a text or automated contact won't work. So it doesn't seem like we can use the app to alert the 3rd party answering service. And even if we could, the ability for first responders to enter would be an issue.

There are probably plenty of people who don't have a reliable "first contact" person. I don't think CI or Alcor accept being contacted directly with the app. I know Alcor offers to call their members every 6 hours or so, but I don't find that to be a good option. The CI app's hourly alarm is superior and less annoying.

When I first installed the app, I was just getting used to smartphones, and I had some false alerts due to using "silent" mode instead of "do not disturb". Now, I usually only send off a false alarm about once a year, and I usually respond with the "never mind it was an accident" text within a minute or two. CI may have thousands of members but I think there are only around 100 using the app. If they all had a yearly false alert it shouldn't add too much burden on a central entity receiving those alerts.

Perhaps we should contact Alcor to see if their "we'll call you every 6 hours" service can be modified to simply be a first contact for the CI app alerts? I think a small fee for such a service would be reasonable, and it should be much less than what Alcor charges to call you twice a day.

It would be great if there were more groups like the Minnesota Cryonics Rapid Response https://minnesotacry...pidresponse.org (video presentation: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtAnD1nr8EQ&t=2583s). But so far, cryonicists in California and Arizona seem uninterested in forming such a group.

 

I'm asking Oregon Cryo what they think: http://forum.oregonc...c.php?f=2&t=147

 

I will alert Nikki of this thread as well. Perhaps it's something that her group is contemplating and willing to get involved in.


Edited by MaximilianKohler, 24 October 2023 - 08:35 PM.


#3 Mind

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Posted 26 October 2023 - 07:12 PM

A lot of good thoughts. I am glad more people are discussing the issue of contact APP and calls. There has to be an optimal solution.

 

I wonder if a legal structure like a "limited conservatorship" could be developed, where you designate someone to be the first to arrive on the scene after an alert of death/heart stoppage.



#4 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 26 October 2023 - 11:10 PM

I discussed it with Nikki a bit, and her group does have plans, but they're long-term and not necessarily the most optimal solution.

 

Some things to keep in mind:

  • It's important for the police to arrive ASAP because of restrictions/laws around messing with dead bodies. So you can't have a non-police 3rd party arrive and start icing the patient until the police arrive.
  • Police do "wellness checkups", so it's already a normal service for them. The main issue is having a way for them to be able to enter the house/apt.

 

At this point, I think petitioning Alcor to change their service from one that calls people twice a day, to one that can deal with CI app notifications, is the best current path. So far, CI doesn't seem interested in offering such a service.

 

I wonder if a legal structure like a "limited conservatorship" could be developed, where you designate someone to be the first to arrive on the scene after an alert of death/heart stoppage.

 

 

I think this is a bit of a separate issue -- IE: medical power of attorney. Yes, it would be great if there were more cryo groups like Minnesota Cryonics Rapid Response, where you can assign medical power of attorney to other cryonicists in your group.

 

It's unfortunate that people in the Socal/AZ area seem uninterested in forming such a group so far.

 

I was thinking that ACS (American Cryonics Society) might be something similar but they never responded to me.


Edited by MaximilianKohler, 26 October 2023 - 11:12 PM.


#5 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 24 November 2023 - 04:59 PM

I wrote to Alcor but haven't received a response. We also discussed it more in the private CI group, but apparently no one is interested. I think it's vital to have a service that can respond to CI app alerts and call 911, so hopefully more people contact their cryo providers about this.

Dennis Kowalski let us know about some useful ways to allow the police & fire department in though -- a Knox box https://www.knoxbox.com -- a box that only police and fire departments have a key to. You put your home's door key in it and they lock it up and hang it on your door.

 * They have residential ones for ~$200-$400 https://www.knoxbox....23_Final-68.pdf.
 * The bigger one is about 3" thick https://trlsystems.s..._Spec Sheet.pdf.
 * And the smaller one 2" thick https://trlsystems.s..._Spec Sheet.pdf.
 * Mine has to fit between my door and screendoor, and those dimensions seem like they would.
 
They only indicate that they allow the fire department in though. Only the "gate access" ones allow fire and police. I contacted Knox and they implied that the police have access to all of them, but they weren't being clear. And after a bit more prodding they told me to contact my fire department, which I did, and I learned that the police do not have keys for the residential Knox boxes. This is important because as far as I know, it's the police who do wellness checks.

I contacted the police department and they said I could use one of these https://www.amazon.c.../dp/B0B14HJSJM/ coded lockboxes, and call police dispatch, and the police can store it in their system, and they automatically look it up when responding to calls to an address.

That would work for police, and if you wanted the fire department to have access you'd have to also buy one of the Knox boxes.

The design of the amazon link above isn't great because it's not locked to your door in any way unless you have a specific door handle it can lock onto. So someone can just slip it off, take it somewhere, hit it with a hammer or something, and get the key to your door.

There are some here that can be mounted to the wall https://www.amazon.c...&ref=nb_sb_noss

I think "over the door" is the best since it's more versatile and can be used anywhere, but the ones I'm finding are keys instead of combinations https://roperlock.co...oxes/over-door/

NYT review of some, but no door mount https://www.nytimes..../best-lock-box/ - they recommend wall-mounted ones.

I found this mount https://www.amazon.c.../dp/B006Y3IEEQ/ but it's not very secure. It would be easy to cut.

This condo lock box door hanger https://studio4signs...do-door-hanger/ might be slightly better, but that type of lock is still easy to cut with bolt cutters.

I found these, that look like the top-rated NYT pick, except with a door mount:
https://doorlocksdir...itanium-001017/
https://doorlocksdir...l-black-000604/

Since they're way up at the top of the door that makes it harder to open. Could be a pro or con. I suspect the Combination Dial one would be especially difficult to open for people who aren't quite tall. But even for the Pushbutton one, the numbers of the buttons would be difficult to read if you were not tall. I think you should be able to mount it to the side of the door though.

Perhaps an Over-the-Door Steel Drop Box like this https://www.pochar.com/products/db22-h would be better. It's less obvious that there are keys inside it, so perhaps that's a benefit. 5.5" is probably too thick for my door though.

Here is one for real-estate agents https://en.wikipedia...estate_lock_box.

This is only a "solution" if you have people you can rely on to receive and act on alerts from the CI app, AND you also need to have some sort of local response group such as SA, MCRR, or a local funeral director who you've established a good relationship with.

Also, the file of life packet https://www.thefileoflife.org/ informs emergency workers when you can't do so yourself. The sticker goes on your front door/car bumper or window to alert first responders that there is an information packet on your refrigerator, car glove box, etc. And there's a similar phone app called "ICE - in case of emergency" that puts emergency info on your phone's lock screen.

 



#6 MaximilianKohler

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Posted 08 December 2023 - 04:07 AM

Video from Cryonics Monitoring: "Should we use fitness smart watches for monitoring? NO"

 



#7 Mind

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Posted 08 December 2023 - 07:00 PM

Still the best option is to move to an area with a lot of cryonicists and cryonics services, especially if you are advanced in age. Right now those locations would be AZ, MI, and MN.


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