30 replies to this topic

[Dorian Grey]

I became interested in Lipid Soluble Alkaloids (LSAs) while pondering the mysterious benefits of chocolate.  Jeanne Calment, the world’s longest lived human (122) was said to be very fond of chocolate (as well as cigarettes and port wine), consuming it a kilo per week, but what was the mysterious beneficial ingredient?  Flavanols?  Yes, but many foods are rich in flavanols, so how could this be what makes chocolate so special?  

 

Enter theobromine,, which has substantial effects on human physiology, and coincidentally is a lipid soluble alkaloid, which is fairly rare in  modern diets.  I’d read about those who feel shifting the body, which often becomes more acidic with age, back towards alkalinity, with some advocating drinking sodium bicarbonate in water; but I also read doctors opinions who claimed this would be futile, as it is too swiftly excreted to produce a lasting effect.  Theobromine however has a half life of 6-12 hours in humans, so perhaps this is a better way.  

 

Unfortunately, with chocolate being the only food rich in theobromine, and also very rich in sugar, this may present a compromising issue for many, as sugar is considered almost a poison to some (ME!).  

 

Looking at other / alternative LSAs, caffeine pops up, and coffee also is known to have some mysterious elixir of life ingredient that seems to ward off several chronic disease states and promote longevity; but once again, nothing really jumps out as unique to coffee except the caffeine, which is a lipid soluble alkaloid.  With a half life of 5-6 hours, twice per day dosing might be more effective than a single blast in the morning, and the caffeine side effects are unpleasant to some.  

 

Nicotine?  Well, it’s not for everyone, but I did note an unusual property regarding smoking and cancer.  Among smokers and ex-smokers, it seems the ex-smokers are more likely to get lung cancer than unrepentant / current smokers.  Tis a puzzlement!  Unless you consider smoking bathes the lungs in that lovely lipid soluble alkaloid nicotine, and this is somehow protective.  

 

I am also a believer in Ferrotoxic Disease…  That age related iron accumulation can promote accelerated aging and disease.  What’s this got to do with smoking?  Well, tobacco smoke particulate is fairly rich in IRON, which gets deposited in the lungs, causing oxidative stress, inflammation, and CANCER.  This iron persists long after quitting smoking, and likely may be what contributes to cancers that spring up many years after quitting.  

 

Interestingly…  Once you quit smoking and bathing your lungs in alkalizing nicotine, lungs can become more acidic which can render any iron to a very reactive state.  If you’re a blood donor, and/or chelating iron with IP6, this inflammatory iron will dissipate to leave a healthier pulmonary environment, but if you’re a male who’s been accumulating iron all his adult life, hepcidin (the bodies master iron transport hormone), will shut down iron transport, and lungs will remain full of highly reactive and inflammatory  iron.  If only there was a way to alkalize those poor lungs! 

 

There is yet another aspect to consider, and that is the alkalization of cellular organelles and autophagy.  Cellular lysosomes use acid to break down cellular garbage, and alkalizing them can inhibit this mechanism.  NOT GOOD one might think, but I have been unable to find just how much of a shift to alkaline moderate dietary LSAs do to lysosomes.  Quinine, Chloroquine & Hydroxychloroquine are all very powerful LSAs, some with a very long half life, with many who are treated with these for many years (even decades) for Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, malaria prevention, etc, without much mention of the consequences of potent and persistent alkalization.  

Finally…  There is one more factor for consideration, and that is telomeres. I’m not an expert in this area, but I’ve read there is a delicate dance between autophagy and telomere health.  Cells burn brightly & hot in an acid environment, and also tend to burn out and be replaced rapidly, with telomeres shrinking a bit with every cell division. Shortening telomeres?  No Bueno!  

On the flip-side, alkalized cells tend to run cooler, with less autophagy and live longer lives, which may not sound too bad, but longer lived cells can have more accumulation of DNA breaks and damage, which may potentiate CANCER?  Perhaps…  But I would expect this would mean those on long term hydroxychloroquine therapy for RA & Lupus, would have a greatly increased proclivity for cancer, and I haven’t heard this to be so.  

What am I doing?  Well…  Moderation in all things!  I don’t smoke, and resist daily chocolate intake due to the sugar (and NO, I’m not forcing dark choc on myself or anyone else).  I do have a large, 22oz black, fresh brewed coffee most every day after lunch.  Coffee on an empty stomach is supposed to spike cortisol, so avoid that, but any time after you break your morning fast is fine, so long as you can sleep at night.  

I also switched from my old red wine evening tipple to Gin & Light Tonic.  I loved my cabernet, but the sulfites were a problem, and I switched to G & T during the plague for the quinine, and found I really liked it.  You must be careful to avoid full sugar tonic water, as it really is loaded with more sugar than even sodas to counteract the bitterness of the quinine.  Sugar free tonic has very little quinine, so this defeats the whole G & T benefit.  There is one Light Tonic I have found with only 30 calories per 6.8oz bottle, and a good natural quinine content, and that is FEVER TREE Light Tonic Water.  

I sip on two (or three) of these between dinner and midnight, and have found the 30 calorie per hour consumption rate does not create a sugar bomb or insulin flood/poisoning.  Quinine is in fact known to lower blood glucose, so there’s another reason to enjoy!  The quinine also seems to alkalize my stomach, and I don’t get reflux if I sleep on my right side anymore, like I did during my wine days.  .  

Please let me know your thoughts on this, and if I’ve made any erroneous assumptions.  

 

[pamojja]

 

I don’t smoke, and resist daily chocolate intake due to the sugar (and NO, I’m not forcing dark choc on myself or anyone else)

 

I smoke, ferritin has been consistently low (avg. 75 ng/ml) and had been taken 20 g of organic cocoa powder and as much 85% dark chocolate for over a decade, only recently I quit the powder. Still do take the dark chocolate voluntarily, no need of force. ;-)

 

For quitting sugar - also in bitter things like pure cocoa powder - stevia extract helped me. Also used gymnea sylvestre extract against pre-diabetes, Meshashringi in India, there known as killer of the sweet taste. How that worked for me, I found out on my last recuperating vacation to an Indian beach, when I forgot the stevia extract at home. It didn't kill my sweet taste, but at least the most bitter, pungent and astringent tastes don't bother me anymore. Stevia extract actually, for the first time, was available at that place as a mix with xylitol. I did without this time.

 

Beside theobromine from cocoa products, berberine, caffeine and nicotine probably make the bulk of my daily alkaloids for me, summing up to a few 100 mg/d. Some piperine too. Blood pH has been about 7.46 average for many years. And experienced remission of a walking-disability from PAD, symptoms of COPD, and post-excertional malaise (PEM, otherwise the hallmark of ME/CFS).

 

 

 

 

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for the input pamojja.  I smoked a pipe for many years, but started feeling a bit of angina hiking up hills so had to lay it down a few years back.  The heart issue surprised me, as my lungs have always been great.  I'm a long term blood donor, so any iron in my lung tissue hopefully got tapped to replace all those red cells. I used to hike up and over the 200 steps at the convention center without coughing or even getting winded.  

 

I'm having trouble finding the ex smokers get more lung cancer than unrepentant/current smokers, so I may have to retract this.  I recall seeing it on the Forces International (smokers rights) site, and was impressed.  As I recall, it pertained to lifetime smokers who quit in their later/senior years, but I can't find it now.  I would have kept puffing till they nailed me into a box, but angina has a way of getting one's attention.  

 

I tried berberine, but it inflamed my colon, so I had to punt.  Perhaps I'll give the dark chocolate another try.  

 

Good to hear your PAD and other issues are under control! 

Edited by Dorian Grey, 01 August 2025 - 04:19 PM.

[pamojja]

I smoked a pipe for many years, but started feeling a bit of angina hiking up hills so had to lay it down a few years back.

 

I also had angina like chest pain before starting supplementing, but in my case related to physical or mental stress only, before starting to supplement comprehensively more than 16 years ago. Along with life-style changes against the PAD. Found simply 160 mg/d of CoQ10, or half of that of Ubiquinol, ceased them. Also reanalyzing all my intake, interestingly realized intake had been highest at about 200 mg/d CoQ10+Ubiqunol during my last and most difficult remission of PEMs.
 

I'm having trouble finding the ex smokers get more lung cancer than unrepentant/current smokers, so I may have to retract this.  I recall seeing it on the Forces International (smokers rights) site, and was impressed.  As I recall, it pertained to lifetime smokers who quit in their later/senior years, but I can't find it now.  I would have kept puffing till they nailed me into a box, but angina has a way of getting one's attention.

 

It sure does. I was completely surprised with my diagnosis of PAD, and following the advice of my MDs about daily walking-exercise (for which I quit regular commuting by cycling; a huge mistake) and to quit smoking, that only with those 2 intervention my walking-disability got worse. Down to 3-400 meter painfree walking distance only.

 

Therefore, I started to search for any evidence that quitting smoking could improve a PAD walking disability. Or at least some benefit in quitting for life-long smokers in mortality. Found nothing, but 2 long term randomized controlled trials with life-long smokers, where the groups supported in quitting had no improved outcome. Less lung-cancer, sure, but more colon cancer instead. Almost no difference in mortality. That was the end of me quitting, and start to improve again.

 

I'm still certain not smoking would of course be better, to begin with. But after decades of it? -  The self-medication aspect, for someone with so many health issues from birth onward, certainly plays a role too.

 

I tried berberine, but it inflamed my colon, so I had to punt.

 

Took only a low dose. Like 110 mg/d during the last 16 years. Probably my high ascorbic acid intake quelled inflammation there too.

 

[bullGenteel]

https://www.sott.net...nst-Lung-Cancer

"a thin mucous layer in the lungs, "which forms a protective layer stopping any cancer-carrying particles from entering the lung tissue."

I was in a community college class close to 20 yeara ago to give witness of an instructor gave a "Dr Gregory House, MD", type persuasive rhetoric formed on the spot to more less cover the crux of the theme. I have severe OCD it drove me a little crazy. I was on some meds that slowed my cognitive function, absence of serotonin booster SSRI, just my luck.

I vaguely remember googling it and finding a Canadian researcher that must have confirmed this article with some quantitative analysis and a similar conclusion in humans. I could be wrong about the details of the Google paper since I have a poor memory. I have had suspicions powers that remove papers they will to be removed. I can't find the paper I recalled on a web search. In the same way I saw multiple papers saying that notrphic agents could safely offset cognitive deficits attributed inlarge part by psychotropic meds and some part by psychiatric illnesses. I could imagine that would not be a avenue of investigation big pharma would want opened.

Might be a little TMI, little off-putting Im sure. I remember coughing up mucus whenever I wasn't alone, imaging radioactive particles trapped in mucus. Results were it did have the unintended serendipitous manifestation of a chronic inflammation with actual mucus layer seemed to be built up just in throat. I felt this may give me some protection as a blockade against any foreign infiltration.

I like to think I have made a lot of stide in personal transformation, as a
result I have less fear of dealth replaced with a higher purposes. But still have a healthier fear of dealth.

So it is probably is a good idea to prevent toxic exposure through lungs. Perhaps there are multiple toxic agents in the environment that increase cancer. Plastics and teflons were put into high use around the same time as nuclear testing. Perhaps a mucous layer can prevent microplastics from entering the lungs as well as any number of toxins we are exposed too. Prostate and breast cancer have greatly increased in the same time period as lung cancer. Two cancers I presume are hormonal in nature to a degree with plastics being a hormonal disruptor as far as I know.

I have trouble focusing on more than one complex topic. Just because it is on my mind. I wonder how much the member Questforlife's theory of aging and larger cells not being as efficient and reducing cellular waste might be beneficial on many fronts if addressed. I don't know if smaller cells may even have a better chance to lessen microplastics, forever chemicals or radioactive particles. It likely need to be examined by someone othe than me. I have no medical or science knowledge.

[Dorian Grey]

Thanks for visiting my little rant bull, and thanks for the link. 

 

The paper I once saw about cancer rates lower in current compared to former smokers has vanished.  That google MEDIC update back in 2018 has a lot of work obscured by clouds now.  I probably should have looked before my original post in this thread, as now I've dinged my credibility.  

 

The secret behind the magical properties of coffee, chocolate, & perhaps to a lesser extent quinine, still present intrigue.  Even the polyphenols in resveratrol are better absorbed when combined with the lipid soluble piperine. 

 

I was hoping this might catch someones eye.  Thanks for noticing!  

[Dorian Grey]

Here's a link to a page: https://www.longecit...rm/#entry564686

 

About 3/4 of the way down a post by "nightlight" has all the links, many of which have been banished.  

 

The highlight of one of nightlight's old posts was what was supposed to be the definitive study proving tobacco smoke caused cancer.  It seems though they had been able to cause cancer smearing tissue with concentrated tobacco tar, they hadn't actually proven tobacco smoke itself could cause cancer.  

 

The study exposed golden hamsters to high dose tobacco smoke for extended periods, but backfired spectacularly, when not only were cancer rates similar to controls, but test hamsters exposed to the smoke actually lived slightly (though not statistically significantly) longer than the controls.   

 

Tobacco smoke particulate does contain iron though, which is known to be highly inflammatory and in certain circumstances carcinogenic, which may become more reactive once the lipid soluble alkaloid (nicotine) is discontinued and tissues become more acidic.  

 

This study may be in one of the links he provides, though many of them are dead now.  Lets see if the way back machine can help: 

 

https://web.archive....s-good-for-you/

 

Bottom line...  It appears nicotine may have some remarkable properties regarding keeping iron deposits from tobacco smoke quiet and benign (via alkalinization).  Take away the nicotine, and tissues acidify, rendering the iron deposits highly reactive and toxic.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 20 September 2025 - 05:19 PM.

[bullGenteel]

That's interesting about nicotine perhaps having some cancer preventive properties thru promoting alkalinity. It seems either way tobacco smoke whether it is just the modern tobacco with all toxic additives likely causes some local trauma and/or DNA damage. Based off the fact that vitamin A apparently increases risk of cancer in smokers to enhace tumorgensis.

To prevent a spark in this case, no pun inteneded, smoking may protect against the tissue with DNA damage and/or scarring inflammed damage of lungs from progressing into cancer. I remember the research paper I read and maybe that article I posted stated having some thin mucous could act as a shield preventing particles that could be pro cancer from taking root. A google search did mentuon there is a radioactive particle released in burning tobacco. I don't know if that is fact or fiction. It was proposed smokers may still get cancer if weaker lungs make dislodging mucus more difficult for themselves.

Of course your work sounds like another interesting research angle. I never smoked myself but have some family members and friends of course who do. Myself, I am interested in cancer prevention and anti aging health through promoting more stem like cells and maintaining telomeres. Based off questforlife and turnbuckles work. I am figuring out how senitoics might be handled successfully, mostly based off quests theories. I am thinking along lines of a way to trick the body by replicating as near perfect the conditions that are present in our younger bodies that allow for replacement of cells. I had some intresting results experimenting that may point to this. I don't think current use of seniotic protocols actually replace cells. They may have u shaped postive response by lowering inflmmation by thier removal, but remove too many... I will make an inquiry on Quests thread when I get my thoughts together. I only focus on one topic at a time, I know my limitations.

Edited by bullGenteel, 20 September 2025 - 08:51 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

The U shaped curve is vexatious... 

 

Autophagy reduces senescence, but can increase cell turnover, and every time cells turnover telomeres get shorter;  yet senecent cells accumulate DNA damage and increase cancers?  

 

This dichotomy has always puzzled me.  I like to look at reptiles, with their slower metabolism and remarkable longevity (200 year old tortoises), and would like to think a cooler metabolism would be desirable, so long as DNA damage doesn't become too problematic.  

 

I've been very keen on "Ferrotoxic Disease", and its avoidance as a fountain of youth.  Blood donation and iron chelation both showing remarkable longevity promise.   

 

https://www.longecit...isease-omnibus/

 

Ferrotoxic Disease Omnibus

 

I recall during the pandemic reading about how quinine / chloroquine / hydroxychloroquine drugs alkalize cellular organelles, effectively reducing autophagy, and one would think increasing cellular senescence, and thinking YIKES this really should increase cancers in the patients that take hydroxychloroquine long term (decades!) for rheumatoid arthritis / Lupus, etc, but this does not appear to be the case...  Long term alkalinization, slowing autophagy, and increasing cellular senescence does not seem to kill these patients, though they don't live 200 years either.  

 

Does this mean this cooler running metabolism is more desirable than a hot autophagy and cellular turnover physiology?  I really don't know, but determining this would seem to be key to a lot of longevity theories.  

 

I'm going with a cooler metabolism, through lipid soluble alkalinization, and reduction of ferrotoxic DNA damage through blood donation and iron chelation to minimize DNA damage in my slower cellular turnover bodkin.  I just don't see how running hot (and clean) would promote longevity over a cooler and slightly slower metabolism, when every time these hot running cells turnover, telomeres grow shorter.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 21 September 2025 - 05:27 AM.

[bullGenteel]

Sounds like you bring up two opposing approaches to longevity as I see members presnet here. One side might want to kep the body at peak functioning with clearing out old cells, optimizing as many systems as possible like mitochondria to achieve an increase health span to increase life span. Other option being conserving energy and slowing down the system at a metabolic level to conserve resources and slow degradation to achieve longevity at the cost of vitality. The second strategy might use something like calorie restriction.

I am still working on neurogenisis to overcome a brain injury and also some developmental deficits I believe I had when born. Also, I am on a 13 day of a water fast. The fast is for neurogeneratuon after taken a few weeks to make my cells more stemlike. Perhaps to transform some sencient cells into stem like cells. I havent reached a stage where I am rwsdy toctscjle sencinet cells directly. I'd esnt to rescue as many damaged scient like cells first, if possible. I forget thebspecifics I rwad about a reason why keto and perhaps calorie restriction has a lot of good parameters involved, except for one that kills it as an idea. It was on another users long thread. I am trying to be practical and wrap my head around enough to allow me to practice protocols just to treat my disability successfuly. I seem to be slowly making progress, with some missteps causing me to fall behind while moving forward overall.

But fasting does not get rid of sencient cells. I believe an expert on here named Michael stated that before. A theory states that damage can shorten cells and make them sencient like. I seem to have a lot wirh my physical injuries. Fasting never made a dent in them, pun intended since swelling seems to be the presentation in my ankle. But this newest protocl to restore cells to younger type by increase in stemness has made a considerable improvement. I made a mistake int he first round and am still on the second round. My stem cell treatments, previous to my latest protocol, did reduce swelling before it stalled. I never used much sencient cells killing agents because of worries that it wouldn't work effectively. Actually from quests work, being in a fed state tells your cells to not grow anymore. That is the state your body has to be in to intitate the process of cell repair and or replace. So opposite of fasting. But it needs help or optimal conditions as we have in youth.

Its a complicated process to repair cells. I appreciate quests work. I believe he has done the work to show you can return your cells and behavior to a youthful state in order to successfully remove and replace sencient cells. I believe I may have srumbled on a way to direct your body to just replace cells that are not capable of being repaired. So to take a surgical approach vs a shotgun. Perhaps others have attempted this. I believe sencient agents will remove a lot more cells than is needed, especially datsnab. It would be super precise if the body could pick only worser cells to replace. You would then conserve the bodies resources like stem cells and reduce unnecessary cell turnover and telomere degradation. I know quest involved telomere enhancers in his protocol during this stage as well. I don't know how confident he is but it addresses the telomere quagmire with cell turnover. Perhaps if telomeres cannot be lengthened, atleast lessen attrition. A lot of things are still fuzzy for me. Perhaps that will lessen in the future.


Over the last few years I have incorporated as many practical and interesting theories I could that I found on this site. I think I felt better doing blood donation for a few years from reading your threads. I also wonder if just attempting to make cells younger and mote effcient might make the Krebs cycle more effcient and take care of waste products like iron. I barely understand any of this. Oh well. But effcient cells like younger version will be more effcient at removing waste in my layman understanding. Since young people have lower iron levels whether that's because the cells are more effcient, alternative premise being the body hasn't had time to buildup iron. But I believe it was mentioned that blood donation would also rssult in cell turnover to make mote blood.

For me I am just motivated to treat my brain injury and perhaps to be as healthy as possible. I wouldn't get drawn into considering all the longevity theories because it is hard enough to focus on my present endeavor.

[QuestforLife]

You may be interested that nicotine increases telomere length in treated mice.

 

See: https://www.longecit...-30#entry920902

 

They claimed that long term nicotine treatment reduced glucose dependence, but my experience with nicotine is that it increased my blood glucose and triglyceride levels, and this matches the literature on smokers/ex smokers. 

 

It may be that this can be overcome with a lower dose, (this is tricky as nicotine is pretty addictive), or perhaps by cleverly taking nicotine far away from any meals (particularly sugary or starchy meals).  

[Dorian Grey]

You may be interested that nicotine increases telomere length in treated mice.

 

See: https://www.longecit...-30#entry920902

 

They claimed that long term nicotine treatment reduced glucose dependence, but my experience with nicotine is that it increased my blood glucose and triglyceride levels, and this matches the literature on smokers/ex smokers. 

 

It may be that this can be overcome with a lower dose, (this is tricky as nicotine is pretty addictive), or perhaps by cleverly taking nicotine far away from any meals (particularly sugary or starchy meals).  

 

Thanks for the input QfL.  I've long been perplexed by the magical properties of tea & coffee, chocolate, and how some smokers seem to defy time.  Telomere maintenance might be the key.  I wonder if caffeine & theobromine protect telomeres too.  

 

The autophagy vs senescent cell conundrum may be involved.  Autophagy increases cell turnover and every cell turnover it is supposed to shorten telomeres, yet senescent cells, turning over more slowly accumulate DNA errors that likely increase incidence of cancer.  

 

Could it be the stimulating properties of caffeine, nicotine & theobromine help to stimulate autophagy while alkalizing cells reducing cell turnover that is normally inherent with high autophagy? 

 

This would be the best of both worlds if true.  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 30 September 2025 - 04:22 PM.

[QuestforLife]

I am not suggesting that everything comes back to telomeres, but from my thread:

 

Caffeine for telomeres:

 

https://www.longecit...-17#entry906174

 

Dark Chocolate for telomeres::

 

https://www.longecit...-17#entry906249

 

We might find there is a stimulant link in there somewhere. Nicotine is clearly a stimulant. As is caffeine and theobromine. 

 

As an aside, don't forget coffee (including decaf) us also a potent mTOR inhibitor, So slowing down cellular processes and cell turnover could also be part of the life extension/health effect it has.

 

[bullGenteel]

After my last post I thought to double back a bit on my post. But I have been fasting, so I didn't have motivation. Im still fasting, but it's the weekend. I was thinking how many user's show concern about long term consequences to continuous optimize mitochondria or the deletion of stem cells. So, likely cycling protocols to optimize health span would pair well with protocols to conserve resources and reduce cellular expenditures.

I was thinking of pointing to nicotine use in Quest's thread. I didn't have energy to reread it to understand the jist. I thought it was about optimizing energy use, which might not fit your aims in your protocol. I also thought nicotine increases metabolism which may be opposite of slowing down cellular efficiency for energy conversion to extend longevity.

I found nicotine interesting because of a researcher I trust mentioned it's efficacy for ocd, which I suffer. It makes sense how so many people with just stress or mental health problems tend to chain smoke to self medicate with tobacco. I never smoked, so I tried low dose nicotine from quests protocol and on its own to try to benefit without the negative side effects of serotonin upregulation. I use collagen to downregulate some of the serotonin agents I take to balance some of the benefits without much less side effects.

Interestingly, I did notice I felt off after being on nicotine for a month or so. I didn't know about the glucose problem. I did suspect it was due to myself indulging too much in sugar and processed foods. I still have personal growth to do. I can switch between extreme discipline like keto and fasting to letting myself go completely. I felt better after I cut my carbs a bit and sugar and processed foods.

I feel better after doing stem cell treatments for my moderate concussion and other injuries. So I have added back in carbs and cut down on fasting. To follow quests guidelines that a well feed state can signal the body to stop growth and focus on repair and rejuvenation with the other signaling interventions in his protocol.

I know I saw a sound byte somewhere that keto increases sencient cells. Perhaps fasting too. It makes sense with quests explanations about a well feed states encourages repair and rejuvenation.

If I understood enough of quests thread that its only practical to extend telomeres while proliferating progentor cells in a two weeek span. So it isn't so easy to rejuvinate all cells to a younger state. It can be done on a limited local level. I did feel better my first round of his protocl before doing the growth proliferation concluding stage. Now, I think I need to consider epi-mutstions I haven't done any protocol to address accumulated mutations bej fin my early 40's. I feel like Benjamin buttons doing these protocols. Just getting a bit smarter or considerate with each of the protocols I do. I don't know how much epi-mutstons can be addressed outside turnbuckles approach. I recall akg months long use. I haven't read much about it. I am pursuing quests approach at this time vs using stem cells to replace cells I may be betrer off to rescue.

[bullGenteel]

I have thought about posting about nicotine. Close to a couple of years ago, I found some research papers that covered side effects of prenatel exposure to nicotine. It runs mostly in my family and extended family. Most of my family and relaitves my age and older genrstions were exposed. The research papers stated stats of 1 in 4 working class families before the 90's I presume. I Could imagine upper class men and women had been more well thinking, but also looking down on trends in middle class, I speculate.

The first paper I found, which I couldn't retrieve now; Again, I wonder if papers get buried by requests of interested powers, if theres been enough litigation.

The HPA axis becomes compromised due to either the hypothalmus or hippocampus both growth is stunted. This lead to extra stress perhaps thru heightened cortisol, which manifests in poor sleep during beginning of puberty. I definately experienced this and struggled a lot. I had insomnia and my growth eventually halted in mid teens. Im about 6 feet, I only grow a couple inches I assume in that time. I guess atleast I was always the tallest kid in school. I would have been better off functioning and developmentally wise, if I grown normally on the curve-- oh well.

I do have some pretty serious mental health genetic predisposition, so it wasn't all chalked up to exposure to cigarette smoke. I can conclude this based on relatives that don't share my genetic inheritance in mental health.

My grand patent I inherited serious problems from use to get ECT regularly being same generation as Robert Pursig. My grand parent lived into thier early 90's, keeping thier faculties. I think the stress of mental health may be memetic for environmental stresses, not unlike calorie restriction, as a signal to the body to slow down processes to conserve to bid time till more favorable times in environment. I know I had lower testosterone from insomnia in my mid teens and later from some meds I took, which may bea simlar memetic. I get aged in my late 20's, pwrhaps becuase I have deep lines jn my forhead that appeared after a major accident from sky rocketed homocystine is my theory. I can also feel that young too with optimizing my health.

Looking at relatives I think the underdeveloped hypothalmus or hippocampus can greatly add to the stresses of life. I think some relatives are more prone to anxiety and depression. I might theorize that prenatal smoking could have predicated the surge in mental health services and use of anti depressants. Of course there is a conglomerate of causes for the rise in mental health cases based of theories of disgenics/genetic drift, vaccines, environmental toxins, food and diet ect. Anti-depressants in prenatal I read could reduce REM sleep in developing babies. With what that could induce in problems.

I have found that quests protocol seems in my subjective opinions to make for favorable condtions for neurogeneis. I may have read that hypothamlmus and hippocampus may play roles in emotional regulation and working memory. I think I feel like my empathy is much improved, in spite of fact I cut out reuteri, oxytocin promoting yougart. I subjectivly feel I can more deeply concentrate. A couple months ago I did mess up my first round of his protocol due to my neurotic decision making and executive functioning deficits. Before I did I dis notice a jump in organizational abilities and memory half.way theu the protocol. I made back some deficits with c60 rounds at its conclusion. I read how people with hypothyroidism can be more emotionally liable. I guess with the reuteri microbe disappearing much by the 70's, as claimed by the researcher who first discovered it combined with smoking exposure and anti depressants use could explain less socially conscious peoples in our society.

I did work in a contract postion for someone with a PhD who stated they had adhd, like many people with adhd tend to share thier heart on their sleeve. I deduced this person may have been exposed to cigarette smoke since we had a lot.of interesting conversations. I don't like to share much about myself, I thought of bringing up what I feel I have learned.

I may not have true SCT but something quite similar in presentation. Trouble.with deep concentraation my whole life. Since these generalized diagnosises likely have multiple, different underlying defects in brain architecture that can still present similarly. Different person with different predisposition may have different forms of adhd or mental health creep up or exasperated by some environmental traumas.

I think quests protocol and turnbuckles could let body repair some damages that were done post genetic writings.

[Dorian Grey]

That's a tall glass of water bull, but congratulations on getting your fasting down.  

 

I never wanted to try fasting, as I skip breakfast & actually get hypoglycemic if I late getting my brunch.  Figured I'd never make it a whole day.  Then I had to have a colonoscopy, so had to fast.  Got the hypoglycemic feeling, right on schedule, but then it vanished and I was running on triglycerides no problem.  

 

It happened again just last week.  I'd been trying to get in to see my tax lady, and she texted me and said she could see me at 11.  Thought I'd have to grab a quick bite after we were done, but it took two hours, and I had to cook dinner for my wife, who likes to eat at 5 because she goes to bed early and wakes up at 5:AM.  I figured what the heck, I'll just coast into dinner, and just as with the colonoscopy, I was fine and running on triggs till dinnertime.  

 

Stepped on the scale the next day & I was 2 1/2 pounds lighter!  Guess I'll have to look into 24 hour fasting one or two days a week, as this really has been well proven to extend longevity and health span.  

[bullGenteel]

I did 36 hours fasts for 50% of the years after 30. I suppose it has helped me feel younger. User's on this site find profound benefits that fade after a fast. I believe you can retain much of the benefits if you include fusion agents after the fast from turnbuckle's protocol, even in absence of c60, which some are weary off. You will be promoting the use of stem cells which some users like turnbuckle and quest believe the pools of stem cells can be replenished.

However concern is you may be increasing healthspan at cost of lifespan. From Victor Longo's research 3 days seems to be ideal. I found that it takes a couple days to deplete glycogen or what not. Or equivalently a 5 day fasting mimicking diet are both most effective in my experience too. I definately use coffee and electrolytes as aids and b vitamins.

Other users recommended 36 hour fasts as a minimum just so your last meal is digested I believe than you do the 24 hour fast.

I also think I get the most of fasting by doing it after 2 or 3 weeks of Quest's protocl too revert cells to smaller, youthful states with more stemness. Then you may tackle clearing sencince cells at the end before fasting. Then the body is more likely to replace sencinet cells. Or else I don't think sencient cells ever get replaced once individuals reach an age when thier cells are larger and less stem like. I think this is the way Quest was leaning towards with his protocol. I havent attempted clearing cells yet, as I wish to rescue cells that were damaged from an accident I was involved in.

[bullGenteel]

As for nicotine helping with OCD. I don't know the biomechanics, but I have read that nicotine can be an aid to focus. Like when people's may have smoked peace pipes to do some productive, thoughtful conversations. Or I always thought Sherlock Holmes was a cool character and he would smoke a pipe when he had to deeply consider a problem.

I know OCD is called the "what if" illness, so you are always questioning what if anything may go wrong or may happen. Another user speculated that the threat detection system is in a state of overdrive. That sounded very reasonable when I read it. So it makes sense that if you can focus better in the hear and now, it may calm the ruminating or questioning nature.
The mild driver of focus derived from nicotine may help adhd persons as well. It makes sense that ocd tendencies is one of the most common comorbidties with adhd. If you can't focus your more likely to get rumination and obsessive tendencies. Nicotine may be more effective, unlike serotonin which probably dampers thinking to reduce some ruminating, not as ideal a treatment for ocd.

[bullGenteel]

I was thinking what might help with drop in glucose. I know being in ketosis already helps a lot. Or just go easy by eating less carbs and less calories the day or two before a fast.

I find activated charcoal after 24 hours helps me feel better. Taken once or twice a day in between any electeolytes/vitamins. This is if you wanted to try a longer fast. I also found using sauna once a day helps. For myself who likely has brain aggregates and plaque buildup in my brain. I feel best if I do the sauna. I take olive Leaf extract with Oleuropein in it. Turnbuckle suggested it for fission days. I looked it up it may promote autophagy. It may provide anti-oxidant protection for dislodging aggregates. I believe sauna can stimulate removal of plaques from what I read. I feel better if I take taurine along with olive leaf to bind to aggregates but not trautine during a fast.

The sauna may promote cerbral spinal fluid detox. I recently heard about rebounding on a mini trampiline might drain the lymphatic system and may encourage cerbral spinal turnover. I felt better during this fast by doing rebounding this time. Or I even do 10 minutes light bouncing up and down just with my ankles while in the sauna. Actually today I did 15 minutes of light bouncing in the sauna. I felt quite a bit better today, relatively speaking better, since fasting can make you feel like trash often enough. Probably good for cardio whike fasting.

[Consequences]

I feel AWESOME on nicotine. I can also quit it cold turkey with no issue.

 

However it has two side effects that suck for me

 

- peripheral vasoconstriction, which is a red flag for me as my fathers side of the family had severe varicose and venous insufficiency, the latter of which I get but isn't as bad now that I take lumbrokinase/nattokinase/serrapeptase daily.

 

- nicotine causes me pretty bad hypoglycemia, I naturally sit just above hypoglycemia so anything that "lowers blood sugar" like berberine drops me straight into hypoglycemia if I'm fasted.

 

Which sucks because nicotine is supposed to be good for appetite suppression.

[Dorian Grey]

It's funny, I smoked a pipe for many years, but when I started noticing angina after 2 COVID vaccines and 2 COVID infections, I finished what tobacco I had and just put it down, with no real anxiety at all.  Gained a few pounds, but nothing like the 10-20 pound average for X-Smokers.  

 

Unfortunate about the peripheral vasoconstriction.  I only smoked my pipe in the evening, when I was also tippling a bit and the alcoholic vasodilation seemed to counter any PV.  I imagine a little alcohol would also keep blood glucose from sliding uncomfortably low.  Worth a try!  

[QuestforLife]

 

- nicotine causes me pretty bad hypoglycemia, I naturally sit just above hypoglycemia so anything that "lowers blood sugar" like berberine drops me straight into hypoglycemia if I'm fasted.

 

Which sucks because nicotine is supposed to be good for appetite suppression.

 

Did you actually measure low blood glucose as a result of taking nicotine? Because that is the opposite of the results reported more widely, where nicotine increases the chances of developing diabetes and increases blood glucose. I also noticed my blood glucose and triglycerides rose from taking nicotine. Supposedly it reduces insulin sensitivity. If true, that would suggest taking it in the evening, when insulin sensitivity is already low, should blunt that effect. 

[Consequences]

It's funny, I smoked a pipe for many years, but when I started noticing angina after 2 COVID vaccines and 2 COVID infections, I finished what tobacco I had and just put it down, with no real anxiety at all.  Gained a few pounds, but nothing like the 10-20 pound average for X-Smokers.  

 

Unfortunate about the peripheral vasoconstriction.  I only smoked my pipe in the evening, when I was also tippling a bit and the alcoholic vasodilation seemed to counter any PV.  I imagine a little alcohol would also keep blood glucose from sliding uncomfortably low.  Worth a try!  

 

It's very likely your angina was caused by your covid vaccinations. Truth is coming to light about those now.

 

Yeah alcoholic vasodilation is really significant, but I don't drink alcohol at all. I can't enjoy it now I know what it does to the liver and kidneys. NAFLD is bad enough for the population even without adding the alcoholic component.

 

As for hypoglycemia, yes I did. And it consistently dropped. And then I'd actually put fat on by binge eating sugary snacks trying to get it back up again. I was using nicotine for long covid fatigue and it worked really well for that.

 

In most people, nicotine actually causes diabetes due to it's skeletal insulin resistance properties. 

 

It seems to be nicotine itself that causes me these issues because I used to smoke tobacco in 2010 and I didn't have any blood sugar nor peripheral constrictive issues...but then that was 15 years ago when I was in my earlier 20's so my body was more effective at healing itself.

 

I should note I have funky genes and an extra chromosome so lots of things effect me the opposite to most people.

[Dorian Grey]

I hadn't heard about nicotine lowering blood sugar, but interestingly quinine does too.  I wonder if caffeine & theobromine have any effect.  AI says no. 

 

Apparently caffeine might have the same vasoconstriction issues as nicotine, however AI says though theobromine is a stimulant, it does not cause vasoconstriction! 

 

 Is it possible dark chocolate might bring you some relief?  Might be a fun experiment.  A bump in blood glucose, with a mild stimulant effect, and no PV.  

[bullGenteel]

This is an interesting post. I am currently experimenting with some moderate telomere promotion to focus on growth and repair, concurently, with metabolic wellness using nicotine. I decided in the present to focus on repair. Then later it would be prodicious to keep my body in a state to conserve resources in order to replenish reserves like stem cells and conserve telomeres thru using some of Questforlife's protocols.

I did notice varicose veins a few months back, after I thought I had overdid it with telomere promotors. I have never had varicose veins, but my parents did I remember seemed to have them at my age and they smoked. I only have had them appear mostly on the fascia tissue on my damaged ankle. There is a small, light 2" square patch, when I asked a friend to lokk at my back. My uninjured ankle has a single thin vein compared to my injured ankle has many in a 1" patch. I belive this patch shrunk from a larger area after cutting out telomeres and doing an extended fast.

When vericose evins first appeared, I was taking nicotine as well as a lot of telomere promoters. At the moment I was thinking of experimenting with telomere promoters only a few days a week. It is funny that these veins appear in damaged sites of my body. I was concerned when I took c60 last year that I wasn't addressing sensentent cells and telomeres. I have noticed the area of varicose veins on my ankle shrunk after an extended fast. Obviously I was off nicotine. They seem to fade a little by taking some telomere promoters over the last week or two, coupled with slightly less mild pain and stiffness in my ankle.

I planned to share my experiment in a thread about ocd. Since nicotine seems superior to serotonin for treating my ocd with no noticeable psychological side effects that result of serotonin. This time I took glucosamine at 1500mg X2 per day and it seemed to negate any negative drops in energy I had percived in my prior use of nicotine.

I cannot take nicotine any later than the early afternoon I belive due to coritsol. I found mangnolia bark seems the best at lowering rise in corisol from nicotine. Sadly I cant take it at night to compensate for insulin. So many agents, like glucosamine may not be ideal to take longterm if they upregulate mtor and cell turnover.

I did notice the last couple weeks my muscles were more sore. I had more tightness around my neck muscles. It made it hard to sleep last night until I sprayed magnesium spray on my neck. I was thinking that perhaps I should check my blood pressure. This could be asign of vasocontriction and or blood pressure. I know I had bad blood pressure from combining 5htp with c60 till I made myself follow all the preventive agents for it outlined by Kelvin in the c60 thread.
I have had this in the back of my mind and it may help the vasoconstriction.

I have been thinking how I have cut out most probiotics the last few months. I should take more notes due to my bad memory, I believe I was off of culturelle in both of my last two extended trials of nicotine.

Culturelle can reduce noraadrenelin, I gathered from Kelvin's post about 5htp and c60. Noraadrenelin causes rise in blood pressure thru vasocontriction? Perhaps consequences and I could use nicotine with culturelle. Consequences would have to mitigate the insulin problems still somehow.

I remember a post way back where Dorian mentioned he used culturelle but it could be too expensive. Perhaps he had a better go of things while partaking tobacco on culturelle? I have made yougart out of culturelle to greatly reduce any cost. I got the recipe from a Dr. Davis I believe his name is? I had trouble with like 2 or 3 year old starter batches-- it worked well for 2 years or so. I get out of practice making yougart but I will make some more yougart now to experiment. I ran too low on culturelle capsules to just take a capsule. I actually only have one left. My last batch didnt turn out because I may have used expired milk. Im not the most adept in kitchen.

[Dorian Grey]

Sounds like you're making progress BullG.  Hope you're using moderation regarding the doses. 

 

One thing I learned early on (I've been taking and researching supplements for around 30 years now) was "more isn't always better". I've made some mistakes along the way, and was always glad I wasn't going BIG with the doses when I realized I was on the wrong path.  

 

It's too bad they don't have theobromine supplements, like they do nicotine & caffeine.  I guess theophylline is the closest pharmaceutical, but the therapeutic window is quite narrow, and you can get into big trouble if you go over the safe limit.  I'm sticking with caffeine & low dose quinine.   

 

I really like chocolate, but not so much the dark stuff, and the milk chocolate has a boatload of sugar.  I used to do a few crunch bars before bed, and everything opened up so nicely.  Breathing easy and big bounding pulse.  

 

Best of Luck with your adventures in longevity!  

Edited by Dorian Grey, 18 November 2025 - 12:51 AM.

[Dorian Grey]

.

Edited by Dorian Grey, 18 November 2025 - 12:51 AM.

[bullGenteel]

I followed questforlife's reccomendation and other biohacker's advice for low dose use of nicotine. I have also taken either a day off per week or every other day to experiment with ginseng and other telomere enhancers on alternate days. I've taken tongkat ali with ginseng to hopefully aromatose estrogen. I dont know if this is safe combination to be honest. Tonkat ali used everyday for 2 weeks can redifferentiate cells, but I am using it only a few days a week. I have found that 1mg of nicotine in morning followed by 1mg in early afternoon can nearly completely abolish all my ocd symptoms for 24 hours. I reread a bit of Kelvin's thread here.I remember a thread by scienceguy argument that gaba agonists can downregulate gaba receptors. I guess Kelvin's research states nicotine can downregulate gaba receptors. Nicotine increases noradrenelin which gaba can counter to hopefully lessen visocontrriction. Also cutlurelle may upregulate and increase number of gaba receptors. Also beta receptors can be down regulated from higher noradrenelin levels from nicotine. And fish oil can upregulate beta receptors. Propranol can do it in cases of extreme down regulation. I may have felt a similar but more severe reaction when I mixed c60 with 5htp. That was fixed by upregulating beta receptors using propranol. I believe that taking propranol online with combining c60 and 5htp prevented any noticeable downregulation. I also used collagen to prevent upregulation of serotonin. If I have this all straight. I will experiment with taking fish oil and culturelle with nicotine to see if it prevents some vasoconstriction and mildy downregulated gaba and beta receptors. It will take a couple days to make some yougart, since I don't have enough capsules left and its more economical this way. I dont know if this is a fix but it seems like it would be an easy solution to pair with nicotine to remove any negative sides.

Edited by bullGenteel, 18 November 2025 - 06:07 AM.

[QuestforLife]

I don't want to divert the thread but in my opinion niacin (flush) version is the best supplement for metabolic regulation because it upregulates glucose metabolism. At least for a while, then it drops it. So again, you have to know what you are doing and when to take it. With niacin you want to take it with food (or just before, optimally). And then you need to regulate your eating so you don't snack, only eat at mealtimes (or in a restricted window around the niacin dose). Nicotine appears to be the opposite way around, and I suspect NMN might be similar, in that nicotine reduces insulin sensitivity, so you don't want to take it anytime around meals. So, it might be possible to work nicotine into a regimen along with niacin. But it should just be taken without care, otherwise you will most likely get higher blood sugar. 

[Consequences]

I have to be careful with blood sugar at the moment because I take nattokinase+serrapeptase+lumbrokinase when fasted, to get the systematic enzyme properties from it. And one of them, I think the nattokinase, lowers blood sugar.

 

This is the problem for me mainly for example to lose weight, if you're nailing diet and exercise, most people can take berberine instead of metformin and it will activate AMPK whilst lowering fasted blood sugars from high to normality but because I run just above hypoglycemia all the time, I can't use it. Where it does help is using it when eating things that have sugar in them. Like the pack of sour patch kids I enjoyed during Halloween. 

 

I also think you can get distracted with supplements and end up taking too many and putting strain on the liver which causes issues. From a TCM perspective most overweight people have liver/spleen/gallbladder issues; they call this damp+cold type.

 

Covid and long covid is the problematic issue. 2+2 was 4 pre covid from a supplement perspective. Now 2+2 could be 7 because covid seems to drastically effect pathways etc. It's looking like if you ever had covid or the "vaccine that doesn't actually vaccinate you from it" then you have it forever because it forms resevoirs.