15 replies to this topic

[alpha2A]

Hi all,

 

I'm having a fantastic response to zinc.  Maybe it's not exactly dramatic, but it is remarkable.  I've tried so many drugs and supplements, and almost everything has been a disappointment.  So I wasn't expecting anything from zinc.

 

I had struggled to learn some (elements of) Spanish, for weeks and months (though of course not full-time).  In only days after starting zinc, I've memorised all the parts I had struggled with.

 

I started small, with only a 15 mg dose.  I kept titrating the dose upwards, to achieve an effect, or confirm that it's a failure like most things I've tried.

 

I noticed I could concentrate in a way I haven't for a long long time.  I have ADHD, so I searched the Net for information about the use of zinc in this disorder.  I found out that positive results have been reported; zinc improved symptoms and reduced the optimal dose of amphetamine.  That was before I noticed the effects on memory.

 

Soon enough, the effect on concentration seemed to dissipate, but I still enjoyed beneficial effects on memory.  So I kept increasing the dose to recapture (successfully at first), the effect on concentration -- that's what I meant by "chasing the dragon".  I consulted the Merck Manual about zinc deficiency, and it suggested up to 3 mg/kg per day until symptoms resolve.  The peak of that for me is about 225 mg. Today (14 Dec 2025), I hit 5 mg/kg (400 mg).

 

I think I have (or had) zinc deficiency, probably in connection with copper overload.  But with continued zinc supplementation, I expect that sooner or later I'll reach the opposite condition, that is zinc toxicity and copper deficiency.

 

So I'm wondering if there are any obvious signs to indicate that I've had enough, and ideally, reached the optimal copper-zinc balance?

 

-alpha2A

[pamojja]

I consulted the Merck Manual about zinc deficiency, and it suggested up to 3 mg/kg per day until symptoms resolve.  The peak of that for me is about 225 mg. Today (14 Dec 2025), I hit 5 mg/kg (400 mg).

So I'm wondering if there are any obvious signs to indicate that I've had enough, and ideally, reached the optimal copper-zinc balance?

 

Your risk of being slaughtered by the zinc dragon. If the Merck Manual talks about maximum doses of zinc in deficiency, it certainly does so in the context of through regular blood-test ascertained zinc deficiency. With such high doses, it's important to continually monitor zinc and copper blood levels.

 

I, too, made the mistake of following the often heard advice, and 'balanced' high zinc intake with at least 1 mg of copper for each 15 mg of zinc, without monitoring copper at the same time. Copper overshoot, and it wasn't possible to correct with restricting copper yet.

 

Supplementing blindly might very fast create an imbalance, only difficult to correct for a long time after. Do test blood zinc and copper, don't guess and supplement such really high doses blindly. For most, 70 mg/d for some time will already correct a real zinc deficiency. 400 mg/d zinc without testing blood zinc is irresponsible.

 

Edited by pamojja, 15 December 2025 - 11:40 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

Zinc acts as NMDA-antagonist and dopamine re-uptake inhibitor or re-uptake enhancer depending on circumstances. I found Zinc when I was a teen and took it for acne as it worked better than antibiotics, but it also felt anxiolytic and antidepressive which came as a surprise. Problem was that I had to keep taking it in large doses 90-135 mg or the acne would come back full force. I decided the dosage 90-135mg after reading a study where it was taken in those doses for acne and it was more effective than Tetracycline for 3 month trial if I remember correctly. But long term it does mess with the mineral balance, personally I started getting skin rashes and other toxicity symptoms so I had to give it up. I don't recommend it long term for that reason, but it is interesting these minerals can have quite powerful effects for some of us. Perhaps we simply don't absorb optimal amounts from food or something else causes the deficiency-like states.

[alpha2A]

Your risk of being slaughtered by the zinc dragon.

Well, maybe not quite, but I do expect to be bitten if I keep this up for long.
 

Supplementing blindly might very fast create an imbalance, only difficult to correct for a long time after.

Yes. I'm worried that it may take some time to recover from an induced imbalance. On the other hand, I've (probably) never had too much zinc and too little copper, so I'm very curious to see what such a state is like.
 

400 mg/d zinc without testing blood zinc is irresponsible.

Yes, I don't recommend anyone to follow my example. I'm not unfamiliar with doing irresponsible things, but even so, there are relatively few things I regret.
 

Zinc acts as NMDA-antagonist and dopamine re-uptake inhibitor or re-uptake enhancer depending on circumstances.

I knew about the NMDA thing, but not the dopamine uptake modulation. Given these mechanisms, it's not surprising that I'm getting beneficial effects.  I have a lot of experience with both dopamine reuptake inhibitors and NMDA antagonists, and the reason for gathering that experience is that they were helpful with respect to apathy, motivation, cognition, wakefulness and mood.

Curiously, NMDA-antagonists are both the most euphoriant *and* the most dysphorigenic drugs I've tried. For mood, methoxetamine was a disaster, and memantine was some of the greatest peak experiences of my life.
 

I found Zinc when I was a teen and took it for acne as it worked better than antibiotics, ... [zinc] was more effective than Tetracycline for 3 month trial ...

Wow, I had great problems with acne myself, and I took tetracycline for it, as well as other drugs. I still have a lot of scars from it, though they have faded a lot from when they were at worst.

For gender-identity reasons, I took estrogens for a while, but it also turned out to be the best treatment I've ever had for acne and greasy skin. Of course, most men would not be pleased to experience the feminising (ie. breast growth) of estrogens, but dutasteride might be an option, especially if you're also experiencing hair loss.

 

... but it also felt anxiolytic and antidepressive which came as a surprise.

Maybe it's not surprising? Some of the root causes for these conditions may be the same.

 

... it is interesting these minerals can have quite powerful effects for some of us.

 

Indeed.  I'm also curious about lithium -- have you tried it?
 

Perhaps we simply don't absorb optimal amounts from food or something else causes the deficiency-like states.

 

I imagine that in some cases, it's due to the composition of the gut flora.

-alpha2A

[Galaxyshock]

Wow, I had great problems with acne myself, and I took tetracycline for it, as well as other drugs. I still have a lot of scars from it, though they have faded a lot from when they were at worst.

For gender-identity reasons, I took estrogens for a while, but it also turned out to be the best treatment I've ever had for acne and greasy skin. Of course, most men would not be pleased to experience the feminising (ie. breast growth) of estrogens, but dutasteride might be an option, especially if you're also experiencing hair loss.
 

Maybe it's not surprising? Some of the root causes for these conditions may be the same.

 

Indeed.  I'm also curious about lithium -- have you tried it?

 

I have been quite treatment resistant when it comes acne, even Accutane didn't work for my back acne which is still an issue at the age of 34  .

 

I don't have hair loss, I do have heard about Dutasteride but it may have unwanted side effects.

 

Perhaps yeah, it's possible these conditions stem from something deeper. As Hippocrates put it, "all disease begins in the gut".

 

Nope, haven't tried Lithium. I only supplement Magnesium separately at the moment along with a decent multi.

[alpha2A]

I have been quite treatment resistant when it comes acne, ...

Me too. Fortunately, aging solved the problem, almost entirely. I think my testosterone has gone down, because I also have some other symptoms of that.
 

I don't have hair loss, I do have heard about Dutasteride but it may have unwanted side effects.

Yes, but then again, almost any other substance has side-effects.
 

Nope, haven't tried Lithium. I only supplement Magnesium separately at the moment along with a decent multi.

I tried to get an effect out of magnesium, but failed. Or so it seemed at first. But in the night I got diarrhea and shit on the bed, for the first time in my life.  Despite of that, there seemed to be a complete absence of mental effects.

-alpha2A

[Galaxyshock]

Me too. Fortunately, aging solved the problem, almost entirely. I think my testosterone has gone down, because I also have some other symptoms of that.
 

Yes, but then again, almost any other substance has side-effects.
 

I tried to get an effect out of magnesium, but failed. Or so it seemed at first. But in the night I got diarrhea and shit on the bed, for the first time in my life.  Despite of that, there seemed to be a complete absence of mental effects.

-alpha2A

 

Yeah my face is mostly clear these days probably because of aging too, some random pimples and overall not so good skin tone but nothing I really care about as I have bigger problems than that hehe.

 

True, especially pharmaceutical interventions tend to be more or less harsh on the body but it's about pros vs cons I guess.

 

Which form of magnesium did you try? Especially the cheaper forms like oxide and citrate tend to be laxative indeed, but some report the l-threonate form is very beneficial.

 

If you want a mineral that really packs a dopaminergic punch, try manganese, it really does something on the dopaminergic-glutamateric system that is quite different.

[alpha2A]

Which form of magnesium did you try? Especially the cheaper forms like oxide and citrate tend to be laxative indeed, but some report the l-threonate form is very beneficial.

I used the citrate. I thought citrates were usually well absorbed?
 

If you want a mineral that really packs a dopaminergic punch, try manganese, it really does something on the dopaminergic-glutamateric system that is quite different.

That is interesting. I thought it had only deleterious effects on dopamine. In excess it can induce a condition called manganism, which resembles Parkinson's disease, but does not respond to the usual treatments (ie. levodopa).  Google suggests that exceeding 11 mg/day is potentially unsafe.

However, manganese is an essential mineral, and is a part of vitamin B12, which I think is important for the production of the monoamine neurotransmitters.

 

If you have more information on this, I'm very interested.

Incidentally, I'm trying chromium, though not in great amounts. It was available in a local department store, so I decided to try it. I haven't noticed any effects so far, and I haven't read anything particularly exciting about it.  According to Google AI, it can boost the effects of insulin.

 

[Galaxyshock]

I used the citrate. I thought citrates were usually well absorbed?
 

That is interesting. I thought it had only deleterious effects on dopamine. In excess it can induce a condition called manganism, which resembles Parkinson's disease, but does not respond to the usual treatments (ie. levodopa).  Google suggests that exceeding 11 mg/day is potentially unsafe.

However, manganese is an essential mineral, and is a part of vitamin B12, which I think is important for the production of the monoamine neurotransmitters.

 

If you have more information on this, I'm very interested.

Incidentally, I'm trying chromium, though not in great amounts. It was available in a local department store, so I decided to try it. I haven't noticed any effects so far, and I haven't read anything particularly exciting about it.  According to Google AI, it can boost the effects of insulin.

 

Citrate I think is around 30 % absorbtion, it is better than oxide (4 %) but still quite poor unless of course you simply take more to reach enough elemental absorbed magnesium. L-threonate on the other hand readily crosses the blood brain barrier to deliver magnesium to the central nervous system so it's on another ballpark.

 

Yeah be careful with manganese, was perhaps a bit inconsiderate to recommend it without mentioning the dangers if over-supplemented. I mean nasty things like metal fume fever come up when searching for excess exposure to these minerals. But it is indeed essential mineral and to my understanding some vegetarian diets can provide as much as 20 mg of manganese daily. I get 2.5 mg from my multivitamin/mineral, I did experiment supplementing it separately up to that 20 mg dose and it indeed felt more dopaminergic than a good dose of L-DOPA (/Mucuna) but it did cause some concerns about the long-term safety.

 

Boron is another pretty nice mineral that may have a host of positive effects along with boosting free testosterone. There are some threads about it on the Supplements section of these forums.

 

But like pamojja mentioned, caution is adviced when supplementing in mega doses of anything. You don't really want to end up in a state where you have to use chelating agents to get those minerals back out    .

[alpha2A]

Interesting, about the absoption rates.  How does orotate compare?  It's often used in, at least, lithium supplements.

 

If a moderate dose of manganese boosts dopamine, then perhaps the toxicity at higher doses is due to some kind of dopamine overexcitation and "burnout"?  Too much extracellular dopamine is neurotoxic, because it can oxidise nerve terminals; this happens as a consequence of the use of amphetamines (but not cocaine).  On the other hand, if manganese were a powerful stimulant, we would have heard about it.

 

On another note, I'm thinking of trying selenium.  I found this: https://www.scienced...024320597006103.

 

-alpha2A

[alpha2A]

However, manganese is an essential mineral, and is a part of vitamin B12, ...

As a matter of fact, manganese is not part of vitamin B12, but cobalt is. Sorry for the mistake.

[alpha2A]

I've lowered the dose of zinc to about 3 mg/day or less.  I don't need much (if any) in order to enjoy the memory-improvement, but I figure I do need a high dose to gradually lower the copper.

[Daniel Cooper]

I've lowered the dose of zinc to about 3 mg/day or less.  I don't need much (if any) in order to enjoy the memory-improvement, but I figure I do need a high dose to gradually lower the copper.

 

That is a high dose that should only be taken with the guidance of blood labs.

[Mr Serendipity]

I have no idea if I have zinc issues or copper issues. Sometimes I take copper and it really helps, some times zinc and it really helps, and other times not at all. However keeping these in balance are a priority, as I do think I can get copper deficiency.

With Zinc, ZMA zinc has generally been good for sleep quality. While zinc picolinate had immediate effects on erection hardness, but gave wicked insomnia. I also think zinc picolinate had an effect on mood, so I'm actually running a 50mg zinc picolinate and 6mg copper experiment from 17 minutes ago, to see if it has any effect on my mood and motivation today.

 

I'm also ADHD, I've tried 20mg dex/amfexa this morning, and 2 x 10mg mephylphenidate/ritalin later, 2 monster energy drinks, and also 300mg alpha gpc earlier. And I can't get over that executive dysfunction today. Either start my goal of go the gym and exercise, or working on my job, so I'm gonna give a high dose of zinc/copper a go.

Edited by Mr Serendipity, 11 February 2026 - 11:21 AM.

[Mr Serendipity]

Well that was a fun and horny weekend, but absolutely destroy my sleep. Like 2 hours in 48h. So I've dropped the Zinc Picolinate. Apparently picolinic acid can block DMB or something, which is the enzyme that converts dopamine to norepinephrine, so you end up with more dopamine in the brain. Regardless, a great zinc, except gives me major insomnia.

 

Well my zinc bisglycinate came today, and I took 100mg, and an hour or 2 later I felt euphoric for about 20 minutes. After dinner I took 300mg at once, that was an hour ago.

 

I also came across the Kayser-Fleischer rings symptom Wilsons disease gets, and I possibly have that symptom (pics I took today below).

 

Do I have Wilsons Disease, who knows, maybe just copper accumulation a different way, or maybe it's nothing.

 

From history I know back from a decade ago, I cured "jock itch" from megadosing zinc which i think was Candida not bacterial. And I have issues again today, even though I take pretty much everything in my stack. A higher copper/zinc balance is linked to candida, mood disorders, hypomania and adhd, and orgasmic dysfunction, all things I suffer from or have suffered from.

 

But then there was a megadose zinc experiment where I shat blood and lost my sense of smell, but that was zinc citrate + copper, but later zinc citrate alone caused the same issue. There was also the fact I had tendonitis as some point, which I attributed to copper, and that taking copper helped with fatigue / norepinepherine. But also a time when first experimenting with copper, and after a few days, my mind was racing and anxiety was high.

 

And it's weird I can tolerate high doses of zinc in the form of citrate, picolinate, and bisglycinate (I've had 400mg today) without vomiting. And only citrate made me shit blood, picolinate never did, and bisglycinate I only started taking today, so lets hope I don't with that.

 

So for me the zinc / copper thing is out of the bag. But I'm gonna try 150mg once in the morning and see how things go. And may occasional supplement copper in the evening, or drink more tap water for the copper pipes. But lets see what happens. Unless Zinc Bisglycinate causes insomnia, then I'll have to drop that like I did picolinate.

 

 

 

Edited by Mr Serendipity, Yesterday, 07:43 PM.

[Mr Serendipity]

I did have some diarrhea yesterday from all that zinc, and some muscle tightness.

 

But I also ordered some zinc gluconate.

 

But I was thinking about not that long ago I thought I had a copper deficiency. So I’m figuring out what ratio I want and ask ai about studies on it. So I’ve settled for 100mg zinc (50mg Bisglycinate and 50mg gluconate), and 3mg copper daily.

 

I wanted to add gluconate as it’s been proven to increase zinc in the prostate and other tissues.