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Melatonin...is it really a good idea?


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151 replies to this topic

#91 lhobbs1

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 07:19 PM

Found the delete "x".

#92 health_nutty

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:25 PM

Zoolander, please delete that obnoxious movie loop on your submissions while your at it.


I'd like to second that ;)


Zoolander's signature gives me nightmares [:o]

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#93 zoolander

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 09:19 PM

I seemed to have forgotten that my taste is an acquired taste.

Ok. I've changed it. I hope the new doesn't give you nightmares

#94 lhobbs1

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 09:28 PM

Thanks, Zoo. The new sig is a good one.

#95 zoolander

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:00 PM

That's no problem lhobbs1. By the way, how's the t-shirt I'm wearing? Color ok? Just thought I'd pass that by the members before I head out. ;) [thumb] [tung]

#96 lucid

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:47 AM

Lucid,
My apologies to you for the "trash" link. I happen to like this guy's ideas and thought you and others might learn something from the site since the article deals with melatonin. There is nothing there compelling you to give your email or read it.

Well, Its not a big deal. I can deal with a pop up, I was just saying if the site you link to has spam pop ups please post text as a quote. The used car salesman was just meant to be a joke. Its ok to laugh :)

#97 wayside

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 03:07 AM

I seemed to have forgotten that my taste is an acquired taste.

Ok. I've changed it. I hope the new doesn't give you nightmares


Awww... I kind of liked the old one. Guess I'm in the minority...

#98 tintinet

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:00 PM

Minority? Try "Lunatic Fringe"! :)

#99 lucid

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:12 PM

I just started taking melatonin last night. Taking 1.5mg/night. I got a great nights sleep. Good so far. I will probably cut down to .8mg/night.

#100 sentinel

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:24 PM

My wife has tried 3mg sustained release( Life Extension) , 3mg regular (NOW) neither have given her sustained sleep ie she goes off well enough but wakes up at 2:00am and is on and off until we get up at 6:00am. She has tried dabbing melatonin when she wakes up and I have coupled it with Ashwagandha but she still doesn't get a good, full night of sleep.

Other than leaving me, what else is likely to help her sleep at night? 5HTP + the aforementioned?

Sentinel

#101 lucid

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:32 PM

Well more may not be better. I would try lowering the dose to .5-1mg and see if that helps. A good sleep involves lots of other things too. Try making sure the room you are sleeping in is cold. Try reducing room temperature to see if that helps. Secondly If she is getting up at night to use the restroom, resolve that separately. The other big cause of sleep deprivation that I can think of is stress. If she is stressed out, consider going to a shrink and seeing about an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety drug which may help in the short term until she could get some counseling or spend some time getting things off her chest talking.

#102 sentinel

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:44 PM

Thanks.

I think 3mg is a fairly moderate dose, Melatonin doesn't seem to be one of those supplements with massive effective range variation and as it is she is groggy on 3mg sustained. I can't see less giving her a better nights sleep given that it will just produce less seratonim.
Restroom/loo - not a problem. Stress, yes might well be an issue, she has found 5HTP useful in the past and I'm thinking of trying her on Theanine during the day to see if it has an indirect effect on her sleep (and again 5HTP in a similar context).

*thinks*

Sentinel

#103 shadowrun

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 07:05 PM

sentinel

This probably has nothing to do with your wife - But I wanted to throw a similar circumstance I had with my brother that may be relative to your wife's situation.

Melatonin was giving him better sleep than he had previously
It would knock him straight out but he would wake up during the night -

It was taking a toll on him we sat down went over some herbal and vitamin strategies
- During our interactions and the information I went over on Dr. Ray Sahelians website - we began to have a vague intuition that he perhaps had very mild form of depression
(I beleive it was stress or seasonally related)

I hooked him up with some small doses of SAM-E (50mg a day)
(which I beleive stimulates seratonin which eventually becomes melatonin - *please correct me if I'm wrong - I'd like to learn the actual chemical method)

I heard that the 5-HTP is more effective in individuals who are higher strung - easily stressed (more nervousness, anxiety)
His symptoms were - low energy, low motivation, no anxiety
This is why we chose SAM-E over 5-HTP

within the week he was sleeping like a baby
Maybe this information will be of help to someone [thumb]

#104 sentinel

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 12:08 PM

Thanks chap, glad to hear your research has helped your brother. [thumb]

My understanding of SAMe is that it can improve the effectiveness of serotonin and numerous other hormones and mechanisms in the body (hence its use in osteo-arthritic treatment) but it doesn't directly stimulate serotonin production.

http://en.wikipedia....osyl_methionine

Whereas melatonin is manufactured from serotonin synthesis (and is produced largely by the Pineal gland). When melatonin levels increase, serotonin levels usually decrease, since more serotonin is converted to melatonin. On the other hand, exposure to light lowers melatonin levels and increases serotonin levels. Consequently, serotonin levels are lower, while melatonin levels are higher in the winter as compared to the spring and summer, especially in people with SAD. (That is a crap description so look in the resource drop down above, select wiki and plink in serotonin, melatonin and get a more concise/accurate summary).

I think what you have done with your brother is similar to what I suggested with my wife in so much as she is highly stressed/borderline depressed and does seem to suffer from SAD, has carb cravings etc which all point to low serotonin. I think this stress/depression aspect is tied in with her poor sleep. In the case of your brother alleviating his symptoms with SAMe (which I've been trying for the last 2 weeks) helped his sleep, and with my wife I'm hoping to address her (suspected) serotonin deficit with 5HTP and melatonin.

I am also looking at upping her vitamin D as I feel there could be a connection between her SAD and low bone density in some areas.

Thanks again Shadowrun.

#105 shadowrun

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 03:08 PM

I appreciate the info - [thumb]
I'm getting a clearer picture of how these things work with the extra information

And it definately looks like I stumbled into the right diagnosis for him!

#106 lhobbs1

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 01:05 AM

Zoolander, it's my problem, but I think your cartoon image is sticking his tongue out at me.

#107 lucid

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 09:22 AM

Man, I need to get extended release melatonin. I fall asleep like a baby, but I can't sleep more than 6 hours at a time :(

Previously getting 10 hours of sleep in one sitting hadnt been a problem.

#108 stretch

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 11:32 AM

Man, I need to get extended release melatonin. I fall asleep like a baby, but I can't sleep more than 6 hours at a time :(


Same here, I tried 1.5mg and 3mg doses of melatonin and slept well but only for 3-4hours and felt like if bright sun would have woken me up - refreshed and ready to start a day. Timed release capsules would probably give me 6-8hours of sleep but I think I'll try to cope with my natural sleep pattern with occasional insomnias for now.

#109 lucid

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 05:10 PM

So for sleep, .6 mg is ideal I think...
Anyone know the ideal dosages for the other therapeutic effects of melatonin?

#110 ageless

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:05 PM

Man, I need to get extended release melatonin. I fall asleep like a baby, but I can't sleep more than 6 hours at a time :(

Previously getting 10 hours of sleep in one sitting hadnt been a problem.


maybe you don't need it then? [wis]

#111 ageless

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:08 PM

Man, I need to get extended release melatonin. I fall asleep like a baby, but I can't sleep more than 6 hours at a time :(


Same here, I tried 1.5mg and 3mg doses of melatonin and slept well but only for 3-4hours and felt like if bright sun would have woken me up - refreshed and ready to start a day. Timed release capsules would probably give me 6-8hours of sleep but I think I'll try to cope with my natural sleep pattern with occasional insomnias for now.


well you could always take another dose when you wake after 3-4hrs and get another 3-4hrs to equal the 6-8 you desire. But I do agree that a time-released melatonin would make sense.

#112 lucid

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:18 PM

maybe you don't need it then?

Well, I my sleep cycle was really irregular. I would sometimes stay up all night and sleep all day. It would go through cycles of inverting. Melatonin has effectively cured this problem.

I started taking melatonin though because of its therapeutic anti aging effects though.

Additionally it is worth noting that the melatonin levels in myself, a 22 year old, are half of what they were when I was 11 years old (judging from the chart on page 2 of this thread).

My question is still out there: Does anyone know the best doses for the anti-aging effects of melatonin?

#113 ageless

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:22 PM

So for sleep, .6 mg is ideal I think...
Anyone know the ideal dosages for the other therapeutic effects of melatonin?


With regards to better sleep, I keep mentioning one study that showed 300mcg or .3mg as the dose best for sleep quality compared to other higher doses... I don't have the study on hand right now.
Here's some words from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin

I also much prefer the lower doses in the range of 200-500mcg at night which best simulate the natural dose from good sleep or melatonin-rich foods.

#114 ageless

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:31 PM

Well, I my sleep cycle was really irregular. I would sometimes stay up all night and sleep all day. It would go through cycles of inverting. Melatonin has effectively cured this problem.

I started taking melatonin though because of its therapeutic anti aging effects though.

Additionally it is worth noting that the melatonin levels in myself, a 22 year old, are half of what they were when I was 11 years old (judging from the chart on page 2 of this thread).

My question is still out there: Does anyone know the best doses for the anti-aging effects of melatonin?


Interesting to hear that melatonin improved your condition.... makes sense.
I think anything that improves sleep quality would also be anti-aging so the improved sleep patterns of a 300mcg dose should theoretically yield the best anti-aging response. Of course no studies have been done on humans with regard to anti-aging and that would take at least 100 years. I think that's a tough one to say, but I'd go with the 300mcg dose IMO.

#115 lucid

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 06:37 PM

I think anything that improves sleep quality would also be anti-aging

Well it is theorized evolutionarily that our bodies first produced melatonin as an anti-oxidant, it was only later that species used melatonin as a sleep regulator. Hence we benifit from melatonin as an anti-oxidant. There are lots of other benifits of melatonin listed earlier in the thread. They may or may not be actually related to sleep itself. So who is to say what the best dosage is.

Ps. I tried taking a 2.5 mg instant release and 2.5 extended release last night. It was pretty damn strong, I felt groggy 10 hours later when I woke up.

#116 ageless

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 07:27 PM

Well it is theorized evolutionarily that our bodies first produced melatonin as an anti-oxidant, it was only later that species used melatonin as a sleep regulator. Hence we benifit from melatonin as an anti-oxidant. There are lots of other benifits of melatonin listed earlier in the thread. They may or may not be actually related to sleep itself. So who is to say what the best dosage is.

Ps. I tried taking a 2.5 mg instant release and 2.5 extended release last night. It was pretty damn strong, I felt groggy 10 hours later when I woke up.


I realize it is a potent anti-oxidant among other things, but I guess my point is also that more is not better, just as is the case with it's ability to improve sleep quality.
And if you're taking it and not getting quality sleep then even all the other benefits may not add up to the value of a good nights sleep.
I think knowing that a study shows a lower dose to equal better sleep plus it corresponds best to simulating the natural endogenous melatonin release from good sleep or melatonin-rich foods... then that is a good place to start.

#117 Athanasios

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 08:51 PM

My question is still out there: Does anyone know the best doses for the anti-aging effects of melatonin?


It takes 1 to 5mg to reduce core body temperature consistently in most people. That is the range I have looked at for anti-aging possibilities.

#118 maestro949

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 11:42 PM

Does anyone have more vivid dreams with melatonin. I actually enjoy taking it for this affect alone. Though I didn't enjoy the all-too-real dream the other night where I fished my S.O. out of a male whorehouse.

#119 tintinet

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 01:56 AM

Hearsay anecdote, at least until I do some research: IIRC, I read about a melatonin researcher or clinician who took 9 grams melatonin/night for presumtive anti-aging/long term health benefits.

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#120 wydell

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 02:29 AM

On two instances of taking melatonin ( 7 years ago), I had the worst most vivid nightmares I can recall. I never really have nightmares for the most part. I have not taken it since.




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