82 replies to this topic

[Shannon Vyff]

It looks good for this year, to me. I wouldn't worry--I think your letter will be great.

[jonano]

Hi,

I am looking, working to get 20 000$ for Alcor for my membership with them. I'd like to know if it's possible for you to donate for me.

I don't have the money to become an Alcor member (I just have a life insurance), I have a mental disease that stop me to work with people and build social skills.

Let me know what you can do for me, if you know some strategy to get the money from donations. If you know someone interested to sponsor me, to help me. Any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated.

I am preparing a web site who will show all of my sponsors, donators, helpers of my life. I promise I will help them (with love) if they get revived with me later. I will have a clear and perfect acknowledging toward every helper.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 25 February 2008 - 10:26 AM.

[jonano]

here is another text important to read, The Cryonics Institute did exactly that, which I think is the virus of business and economic freedom:

3 cryonics traps envisioned by ***********:

Trap #1. "Our organization needs help. If you do your thing instead of
helping us, you will weaken us. If we collapse, you will have nothing.
Therefore, you should NOT COMPETE WITH US." (This seems to be what
Jordan is thinking.) I call this "The Whining Monopoly Scenario" since
the organization seeks to preserve a monopoly of its market segment by
whining about its delicate condition.

Trap #2. "Our organization cares for cryonics patients who must be
protected at all costs. If you criticize our organization or reveal
embarrassing facts, you will empower hostile legislators or others who
will try to shut us down. Therefore, you should say NOTHING NEGATIVE
ABOUT US." I call this "The Perpetual Hostage Scenario," since the
cryonics patients are serving exactly the same role as hostages.

Trap #3. "You'll be dead before you have time to build a new
organization to save yourself." I guess the only answer there would be
to establish your organization as a cult and surround yourself with
young acolytes.


(edit: name replaced by ****)

Edited by Matthias, 14 March 2008 - 11:27 AM.

[Shannon Vyff]

Last I knew, Jonano--you had life insurance that pays to CI and covers your costs there. Who does it pay to right now?

I've never felt that it will be a problem for you to be a CI member, many on the board are supportive of you--they just want you to demonstrate going a year without doing anything controversial in the field of transhumanism, life extension or cryonics.

But for the 20,000 you need--that is not too steep a price for you to save/collect, you are young.

The problems with starting a cryonics company is that it takes a vast amount of resources, and if you do it as a 'cult' the lack of honesty and openness would likely do in your group, possibly causing public outrage through media coverage that could harm the other cryonics organizations.

[jonano]

Last I knew, Jonano--you had life insurance that pays to CI and covers your costs there. Who does it pay to right now?

I've never felt that it will be a problem for you to be a CI member, many on the board are supportive of you--they just want you to demonstrate going a year without doing anything controversial in the field of transhumanism, life extension or cryonics.

But for the 20,000 you need--that is not too steep a price for you to save/collect, you are young.

The problems with starting a cryonics company is that it takes a vast amount of resources, and if you do it as a 'cult' the lack of honesty and openness would likely do in your group, possibly causing public outrage through media coverage that could harm the other cryonics organizations.

that could harm other! Man, you are entering the 3 traps of cryonics right now, dont you see it?

[jonano]

Hello guys,

This page wrote by many people, they did wrote many false statements.

Let's not forget by reading that, the 3 traps of cryonics, which I am a victim of it.

First I am attacked everyday on internet with this page. People call me a frauder, a fraud man, or a criminal, they say I am trying to rip people, because they take the information on this page, and conclude I am a bad person:

http://www.cryonics....ber05/ebola.htm

I have the help of a lawyer here, because I am on the welfare for the moment, they offer me free help with lawyers and I will use it against this article on the Cryonics Institute domain.

Let's consider only one part of the page which is totally false, misrepresenting and abusive:


--------------------------
What should we do about this pathological criminal? Should we report him to the Canadian authorities? He is clearly misrepresenting himself and is succeeding at getting donations from the people he deceives. Not only is he harming them, he is harming cryonics.


Regards,

Michael LaTorra
------------------------

Michael is very false because I have no criminal file, so I am not a criminal. Second I never accepted donations from people, never received money from anyone.

But because of this text, people call me a frauder, I got this experience too many time now to forget this paper.

I will bring The Cryonics Institute and Michael LaTorra in court because of that, and I wont spend any money because of that and thanks to the welfare system of the Quebec Justice.

The article is appearing at the second result on google with my name. Mind you!! This is the second text they got by reading on my name, and this is highly false negative comments.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 07 April 2008 - 11:48 PM.

[caston]

*image about arguing on the internet removed*

Edited by caston, 08 April 2008 - 12:12 AM.

[Richard Leis]

Caston, the image you posted is offensive and I hope you will consider taking it down immediately.

[forever freedom]

Well for starters i never liked jonano's flow of useless topics. Many of his posts and topics show his less-than-ideal mental state. Other than that, i will not comment further on this issue.

Edited by sam988, 08 April 2008 - 03:05 AM.

[Shannon Vyff]

Well, Jonano--please talk to CI about the page--you can address issues you see as wrong and come to an editing you are happy with, without hurting your case with cryonicists since you are causing them money with legal fees.

You have done things that were construed the wrong way in the past, perhaps you could put your own page up in defense, and they could have a link to your page on that page...

Thanks for taking the image down Caston, I think Jonano does contribute some good things to the community. The problem with the net, is that things don't 'go away' they are there from your past...Jonano has overcome a lot in his life and I can understand why now that he is better, these things upset him.

But Jonano, I'll reiterate that threatening legal action, does not engender feelings of cooperation of friendship. It makes enemies, rather than gains you allies.

[jonano]

Shannon

with friends like that, I dont need ennemies

or with ennemies like that, I dont need friends..

I dont know which sentence is right..

[eternaltraveler]

everything on that page is true.

You don't have a case jonano.

Edited by elrond, 08 April 2008 - 05:15 PM.

[jonano]

everything on that page is true.

You don't have a case jonano.

Think about the 3 traps of cryonics Elrond. What do you think about it? Do a google search about it.

I think I will report cryonics to the bioethics presidential commitee with my information and my case + I will sue CI for displaying false misrepresenting and personal things over and against me.

[Shannon Vyff]

Well, write up your rebuttal Jonano--let them link to it.

You do have friends that wish you the best, even at CI--because of some of the more outlandish things from your past, that is why, some on the board are rightfully cautious- they want to see you 'not being controversial' for a while before they'd vote. The last vote for your acceptance was close, and if you are doing nothing extreme or controversial as you have in the past (perhaps you could ask someone about your ideas first, since many of your ideas were taken the wrong way from how you intended them) you will be accepted as a member, no problem

[jonano]

I will be happy when they will delete the ebola virus of cryonics article, because it does harm me with my other professional work, and my personal relations.

They call me a criminal, just an example, I am not and far away from that.

--Jon

Hi The President's Council on Bioethics

I think you should read more about Cryonics and that you should ban
cryonics from the USA because of 3 fundamental reasons, bad for all
americans. The Cryonics Institute is doing, practicing the 3 traps of
Cryonics since a long time with many of its members.

3 cryonics traps envisioned by Charles Platt:

Trap #1. "Our organization needs help. If you do your thing instead of
helping us, you will weaken us. If we collapse, you will have nothing.
Therefore, you should NOT COMPETE WITH US." I call this "The Whining
Monopoly Scenario" since the organization seeks to preserve a monopoly
of its market segment by whining about its delicate condition.

Trap #2. "Our organization cares for cryonics patients who must be
protected at all costs. If you criticize our organization or reveal
embarrassing facts, you will empower hostile legislators or others who
will try to shut us down. Therefore, you should say NOTHING NEGATIVE
ABOUT US." I call this "The Perpetual Hostage Scenario," since the
cryonics patients are serving exactly the same role as hostages.

Trap #3. "You'll be dead before you have time to build a new
organization to save yourself." I guess the only answer there would be
to establish your organization as a cult and surround yourself with
young acolytes.

--Jonathan Despres

[eternaltraveler]

good luck with your latest hair brained scheme Jonano.

[jonano]

Don't wish me luck, you don't know me at all. It's not a sheme.

I have other things to do, like trying to delete this negative page wrote about me and appearing on google with my name, at the second results. So that I can continue to succeed in my business.

Now shut up, I don't want to hear from you again.

--Jon

[forever freedom]

Don't wish me luck, you don't know me at all. It's not a sheme.

I have other things to do, like trying to delete this negative page wrote about me and appearing on google with my name, at the second results. So that I can continue to succeed in my business.

Now shut up, I don't want to hear from you again.

--Jon

So what about you stop writing crap and start doing something useful instead of trying to bad cryonics just because you couldn't get into it?

I think elrond isn't the one who needs to shut up...

Edited by sam988, 08 April 2008 - 05:55 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

Listen Jonano,

What you are doing right now with your childish whining is only going to add more to that page and pages like it in the end.

This page you are writing in right this moment is going to show up in google.

I'm sure after you stopped doing all these crazy things you keep doing for quite a while CI would be open to taking that page down. But it wouldn't matter. That page will exist forever, in public archives, and in all the quotes from it brought up all over the internet.

What you do stays with you. So choose what you do carefully. You have not done this in the past and you continue to not do this. People are right not to trust you and right not to want to do business with you, and in my opinion it's right that your professional career is hurt by true things. People should be able to know about those they are dealing with.

If you want to be immortal take the long view. You can still change starting right this minute and make up for your past foolishness over the coming decades, instead of making ridiculous threats about having the cryonics industry shut down because you can write a poor letter to the bioethics council (which has about half of zero power right now).

[jonano]

This is unfair to call me a criminal. I am not. I have no file with criminality.

I never received money from people, no donations.

Sam Im doing my job with people, if they treat bad, I treat them bad. Eye for eye.

The Cryonics Institute does not have the right to call me a criminal with no proofs. I know the laws and if I don't know them, my lawyer will tell me.

You will stop to laugh at me when you will hear that CI is in Court because of me.

If you attack me, I attack you.

Edited by jonano, 08 April 2008 - 06:10 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

This is unfair to call me a criminal. I am not. I have no file with criminality.

Jonano, a criminal is not someone who has a criminal file. A criminal is one who has engaged in criminal activity. You have. We have evidence of this here where you attempted to sell other people's work as your own as one example.

i encourage you not to bring forth a case against CI as all of your dirty laundry will be aired.

Simply filing a lawsuit against them will all but guarantee that they will never ever allow you to be a CI member, and I doubt alcor will look very kindly at you either.

You are standing at the brink of alienating yourself from the entire immortalist community. Take a step back and think. Instead of making threats, talk. Do as Shannon has suggested and write up a reply to the accusations made.

Edited by elrond, 08 April 2008 - 06:19 PM.

[jonano]

This is unfair to call me a criminal. I am not. I have no file with criminality.

Jonano, a criminal is not someone who has a criminal file. A criminal is one who has engaged in criminal activity. You have. We have evidence of this here where you attempted to sell other people's work as your own as one example.

i encourage you not to bring forth a case against CI as all of your dirty laundry will be aired.

Simply filing a lawsuit against them will all but guarantee that they will never ever allow you to be a CI member, and I doubt alcor will look very kindly at you either.

You are standing at the brink of alienating yourself from the entire immortalist community. Take a step back and think. Instead of making threats, talk. Do as Shannon has suggested and write up a reply to the accusations made.

FYI a criminal is someone with a criminal file and someone who have been judged by a judge being a criminal. If I did some criminalities.. just ask the cops to do a report on me.

I AM NOT A CRIMINAL AND I NEVER WAS. OK ELROND. NO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

Of course I will sue them in a court for this paper, this is normal, I respect myself. The Cryonics Institute is wrong now, this is not me. It will be judged. But because this organisation is dealing with people like a sect, see the 3 traps of cryonics, and because there is a monopole, and because Elrond you are a naive man with no intelligence, you just stand behind them instead to be at the front.

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 08 April 2008 - 06:51 PM.

[Shepard]

Jonano,

I think everything that needs to be said on this matter has been posted. Since legal action has been threatened, I will limit further discussion on this topic for the time being.