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Please support my case


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82 replies to this topic

#31 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 08:08 PM

Wrong

Only for single manual payments, not subscriptions and pre-approved payments.

#32 bgwowk

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 10:05 PM

Paypal offers preapproved payments and subscriptions, I used a subscription with CI from the button on their site.

I didn't know those kinds of transactions existed. Thanks.

#33 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 11:46 PM

For single manual transactions it's completely safe for most things.

#34 eron

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:00 AM

I'm sorry, Gareth, but the information about PayPal subscriptions is wrong.

To set up a PayPal subscription, you must agree to the terms of the subscription -- that is, to have a particular -- pre-approved -- amount taken out of your account at a particular -- pre-approved -- rate.

Neither the amount of the transaction nor the rate of payment can be changed without your permission.

Additionally -- you have the right, at any time, to discontinue any subscription you have signed up for.

Given this, I fail to see how it's possible that your problems can be the fault of CI. They do not have the power to initiate charges, nor to "suck" money from your Paypal account. You must approve all such transactions yourself by either signing up for the subscription and/or by making changes to the subscription parameters yourself.

If it is true that you "never authorized" the disputed charges, as you claim -- you should probably look to Paypal as the culprit... unless you either (1) gave CI your Paypal account name *and* password, or (2) believe that your account was maliciously hacked by the CI staff. The first would be rather... unwise, no matter how much you trusted said entity. The second would be an outright criminal accusation and legal action would be justified in that case.

From what I gather from Ben Best's post, you were offered the extra money you paid back. Is this what you're denying, then?

I'm honestly confused as to why you thought it appropriate to threaten CI with legal action?

#35 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:29 AM

I was offered the extra money back, I was also informed that the other fees would not be refunded. This is what prompted me to threaten legal action as is appropiate when someone takes your money without consent and insists otherwise. I would not entertain any notions that CI's staff purposely acted in a criminal manner and attempted to break into my paypal account and honestly believe that this was an honest mistake. What annoys me is the total denial of any wrongdoing.

As I do not wish to endanger any of CI's patients or future patients I would not have actually pursued this course of action, though many friends have tried to push me into going to the press amongst other stupid ideas. (When I mentioned this fact to Ben in an email and stated I had refused to do so, he mis-interpreted it as a threat, I was trying to show my good faith intentions in not doing as friends have suggested).

If CI honestly did not make these charges, than that leaves only paypal - I am fairly sure my account has not been compromised, and even if it had been it would be highly unusual for someone to do so only to send extra charges to CI. I signed up for the subscription via the button on CI's site and paid attention to the prices indicated on this page:
http://www.cryonics....membership.html

I am at a loss to explain why anyone would think that I would deem it in my interests to purposely send too much and then complain. This whole incident has been extremely distressing as you can imagine - not least because I have had to keep it secret much of the time.

#36 eternaltraveler

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:06 AM

Clicking on that button you refer to directs you to the paypal website. The terms of a subscription are displayed before the transaction is complete. CI could not pull extra money out of the pay pal system from your account. ImmInst uses the same pay pal subsription system for full member accounts, and it's impossible for us to pull extra money out of full member's pay pal accounts. Perhaps you accidently clicked the submit button twice or something like that.

#37 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:23 AM

"Perhaps you clicked the submit button twice or something like that":

Would you like to explain how clicking twice on the quarterly button ($35/quarter) would trigger the full annual payment, initiation charge and quarterly payment?

Or how this could happen for the annual button?

No matter which button you click on twice, it doesn't make sense, i'd either have been charged $120 twice or $35 twice. As it happens, I was actually charged 3 seperate times - $35, $75, $120.

#38 eternaltraveler

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 02:27 AM

well I don't get it. Doesn't make much sense to me, maybe some wires got crossed somewhere.

#39 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:00 AM

Indeed they must have - I still would like a simple apology as this issue has been bothering me for months (to the extent that I am concerned about it triggering mental illness).

#40 AaronCW

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:09 AM

Now we need to be a friend to directors to achieve life extension. What kind of business is this ?

Everyone should have access to meds, this is how it works in my country, Canada. Unfortunately the United States dont work like that.

I never spoke to Andy and Andy didnopt spoke against or for me.


Is the Canadian govt. going to pay for your suspension? BTW, how many Cyronics providers are there operating out of Canada? None that I know of, in fact I would be surprised if it were even legal.

PS. This post is not to suggest that I do not have sympathy for your current situation, just that I find an attack on free market healthcare morally offensive.

#41 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:16 AM

Cryonics costs money, this should be obvious to anyone. You cannot expect such an expensive service to be provided for free even after a large portion is performed by volunteers.

#42 mitkat

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 06:13 AM

Now we need to be a friend to directors to achieve life extension. What kind of business is this ?

Everyone should have access to meds, this is how it works in my country, Canada. Unfortunately the United States dont work like that.

I never spoke to Andy and Andy didnopt spoke against or for me.


Is the Canadian govt. going to pay for your suspension? BTW, how many Cyronics providers are there operating out of Canada? None that I know of, in fact I would be surprised if it were even legal.

PS. This post is not to suggest that I do not have sympathy for your current situation, just that I find an attack on free market healthcare morally offensive.


If the gov't here pays for his suspension, christ....I'm moving to Costa Rica [tung]

Rasputin, his comment has begun to undermine the intelligence of our other discussion on private/public health care! ;)

#43 caston

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:14 PM

Jon and Gareth,

You are both still very young in relative terms. Lets put more hope into finding a cure for aging in our life time than we do in cryonics. It brings me to tears when an older person that I care about very much is reaching senesence and one of the only things I can suggest is cryonics. Lets never let the same thing happen to us.

* edit I wrote curse not cure wtf?

Edited by caston, 07 December 2006 - 09:44 AM.


#44 benbest

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 08:01 PM

Insofar as there has been so much confusion by Gareth Nelson and others
about his billing, I will provide a detailed explanation.

Subscription arrangement for Option Two Membership can be made on the
Membership page of the Cryonics Institute website:

http://www.cryonics....membership.html

The following instructions appear on that page:

**********************************************
To arrange for automatic PayPal payment
of Option Two Membership Dues on a Quarterly or Yearly basis ( AFTER you
have filled and submitted a membership application and paid the
initiation fee, which have been received and approved) click on one of
the following
buttons:

OPTION TWO DUES (PAYPAL)

QUARTERLY PAYMENT
[BUTTON]

YEARLY PAYMENT
[BUTTON]

**********************************************

If someone clicks on quarterly payment "payment plan"
button the PayPal instructions read:

**********************************************
Pay To: Cryonics Institute
Subscription To: Option Two Quarterly Dues Payment Subscription Terms:
$35.00 USD for each 3 months
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Amount Paid Today: $35.00 USD
**********************************************

clicking on the yearly payment "payment plan" button gives:


**********************************************
Pay To: Cryonics Institute
Subscription To: Option Two Annual Dues Payment Subscription Terms:
$120.00 USD for each year
Currency: U.S. Dollars Help
Amount Paid Today: $120.00 USD
**********************************************

I have studied the PayPal log files and observe the following
information:

On February 3, 2006 Gareth paid his Initiation Fee of $75 by PayPal.

On February 7, 2006 Gareth created a subscription for $120 which paid
$120 for his first year's Membership dues.

On February 17, 2006 Gareth cancelled his yearly payment subscription
and initiated a $35 quarterly payment subscription which paid $35 for
the first quarter.

On February 22, 2006 CI Facilities Manager Andy Zawacki refunded
Gareth the full $75 + $120 + $35.

On February 24, 2006 Gareth cancelled his quarterly payment
subscription.

As a user of PayPal Gareth should have access to his payments log
which should verify these details.

-- Ben Best, President
Cryonics Institute

#45 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 08:45 PM

Those records actually seem quite inaccurate but I would prefer not to go deeper into this matter.

#46 jonano

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 09:22 AM

"Is the Canadian govt. going to pay for your suspension?" No. I am the lonely person to try to protec my life, no one will do it.

free market healthcare is not good. we need to force people to go into life science.

#47 jonano

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Posted 14 December 2006 - 10:06 PM

Hi.

I have read this article many times:

http://www.cryonics....ber05/ebola.htm

It does not help me at all with my fashion business and my personal life, it attacks my reputation and I asked Ben if he can removes this article.

In the article they attack me to be a frauster which I never tryed to be one or to think about about it. I always tryed by honest, fair and loyal with my virtual projects, with very good intentions.

"removing some deceitful and possibly fraudulent solicitations from his web site."

I want to inform all of you that this article does not help my career and I will try until it happens to delete and remove this article.

Comments ?

--Jon

Edited by jonano, 15 December 2006 - 11:03 AM.


#48 drus

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 02:26 AM

I'd just like to say that in my experience, CI is an excellent cryonics organization and I've found Ben and Andy both to be great guys!

#49 jonano

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 02:15 AM

they will be great when they will accept me as a member.

#50 jonano

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 03:10 AM

Hi,

I will give my life insurance to CI even if I'm not cryopreserved.

Because I want to help everyone succeed in immortality. And because I embrace the cause of cryonics.

--Jon

#51 Shepard

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 04:44 AM

You know what will help you stay alive longer?

Don't do drugs.

#52 jaydfox

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 05:54 AM

Jon, if you don't have a contract with them, then it would probably be unethical for them to accept the money unless you very explicitly stated in your will or some other legal contract that the money was a donation with no strings attached. Otherwise they may have to answer questions about why they took money without performing a cryopreservation, etc.

And even then, they probably still won't accept the money. If they are the only beneficiary designated, they'll probably just donate the money to a good cause to avoid the ethical ramifications. So you should probably still consider designating someone in your family as a beneficiary until your situation with CI is resolved one way or the other.

#53 jonano

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Posted 16 July 2007 - 10:35 PM

removed.

Edited by jonano, 17 July 2007 - 04:11 AM.


#54 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 17 July 2007 - 12:01 AM

Thanks for sending me the info Johno! I'll help you edit your letter--it looks very good, only a few mistakes in the English, very easy to do.

;)

Edited by wing_girl, 17 July 2007 - 04:04 PM.


#55 ventureboy

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:49 PM

Is that letter about the Cryonics Co-Housing Project?If it is,I would recommend that you read the book "Bucky Works:Buckminster Fullers Ideas For Today".Its the best book I can think of to provide you with the best ideas and principals for such a project.Im being quite serious by the way.I thought I should add that since you thoght I was being sarcastic last time Jonano.

#56 jonano

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:22 AM

OK you are not sarcastic, that is good.

no I need support to be accepted as a member of the Cryonics Institute, I can send you the url in private if you want to give your supportive comments.

#57 ventureboy

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Posted 20 July 2007 - 11:27 PM

I was not aware that anyone would need support to be accepted as a member of the Cryonics Institute.The People there seem pretty nice and accepting there.In fact I purchaced a Book from the Cryonics Institute a few months ago and it was actually autographed and had the mailling address of the Auther on the large envelope that the book came in! I can give supportive comments but Ill have to know what type of supportive comments you would like me to give.

#58 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 02:27 AM

jonano - has ben best not stated that your membership would be accepted after a year of "good behaviour"? I would not think that you need do anything beyond merely refrain from any potentially damaging projects.

#59 jonano

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Posted 27 July 2007 - 06:19 AM

gareth, do you think I deserve my membership this year? you, personally?

#60 garethnelsonuk

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 10:27 AM

The reasons your membership was refused (and I hope I cause no offence in saying this) was due to mental illness - you have been delusional at times in ways which could cause serious problems. I do not consider that mental illness should be punished with death and so do not think your membership should be completely refused. As to the question of this year - I have no opinion here, you do not seem at risk of imminent death.




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