62 replies to this topic

[mitkat]

This stack has been a long time in the building, and like most of us, is often changing. My budget has shrunk quite a bit since school got back in, so I've had to cut out anything that was either ineffective, redundant, or that I simply wasn't certain about.

Upon Rising:

1x AOR Orthocore, 463mg
1x Prairie Naturals Blueberry extract, 500mg
1x AOR Taurine, 675 mg
1x AOR Vegetarian Booster, 731mg
1x grape seed extract, 500mg
1/2 teaspoon of Navitas organic maca powder
400mg SISU Ester-C Supreme powder
3mg Biosil Liquid
1x Oat Beta-Glucans, 600mg


After Breakfast:

1x AOR Taurine, 675mg
2x Organika Chlorella, 500mg
4x Vinpocetine, 5mg
1 Teaspoon Nutrasea fish oil
1 Scoop of Mum's original hemp pro, 15g
1x Advanced Neptune Krill Oil Complex, 500mg
1x AOR Ortho-Mineral, 900mg


Between Breakfast and Lunch:

1x Decaff Green Tea Extract, 500mg
1x RLA-MCT 400mg
1x Prairie Naturals Blueberry Extract, 500mg
1/2 Redizork® Hydergine tablet, 2.25mg
1x Vitamin D3, 1000 UI
1 Tablespoon Dabur Chyawanprash

After Lunch:

1x Grape seed Extract, 500mg
1x AOR Orthocore
1x Ashwagandha, 500mg
1x NAC, 200mg
2x NOW Creatine Monohydrate, 750mg

Between Lunch and Dinner

1x Orthocore
1x Kyolic Garlic Extract, 600mg
1x AOR Vegetarian Booster, 731mg
400mg SISU ester-c supreme powder
1 scoop Now foods whey isolate, 31g (waiting to run out)


Before Bed:

1x RLA-MCT 400mg
1x NAC, 200mg
1/4 teaspoon of Now Foods GABA
1x Advanced Neptune Krill Oil Complex, 500mg
1x AOR Ortho-Mineral, 900mg
3mg Biosil Liquid


Other supplements used on occassion or as needed:

2x AOR Total E, weekly (placed with fat containing meals)
Melatonin (various sublingual types, 1-3mg)
Platinum Theanine, 100mg
L-Arginine before workouts


Foods consumed every day:

Steel-cut oats for breakfast (Idea from Shepard), or Optimum Power Cold Cereal (not the best, I know)
Dried blueberries (handfull)
3-4 Kalamata olives
1 Tablespoon organic salsa (good lycopene source)
Ever-changing variety of salads (no iceberg lettuce)
Organic soy milk/cheese
Tomatos
Green and red peppers
Small amount of tumeric and ginger in dishes
Quinoa (2-3x a week)
70% Cocoa chocolate, small square
Large glasses of water
1 Tblspn Hemp hearts
1 Tblspn Maca

Teas:
Morning, with breakfast - Blueberry white tea (local source, loose leaf)
Mid-day - Yogi Tea Green Chai
Evening - Rooibos Chai


Incorporating soon:
Berry liquid concentrates
Bought some bulk Xylitol, looking to break it out


Skin Care Routine:

Alpha Hydrox foaming face wash - gentle cleanser
Retinoid use: alternating between tretinoin (.1%) and tazarotene (.1%) every other night, and none on the weekends.
La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL Fluide Extreme sunscreen
La Roche-Posay Antherpos sunscreen for luscious lips...oh nyes
Jamieson CoQ10 Moisturizer with added Anti-Oxidant Booster from Skin Actives

Shout to fredrik on the skin care tip!

Oral Care:

I rotate toothpastes as such:
Dessert Essence Toothpaste, contains xyltiol, kelp.
Jason Tea Tree Healthy Mouth Toothpaste
Dr. Ken's Maximum Care Toothpaste

Oral-B alcohol free mouthwash and Biotene mouthwash, also rotated.

LifeMirage-style Info:
Knotty Boy dreadlock shampoo. One of the best products I can use on my hair.


I am a 25 year old vegetarian. I never drink coffee, and the only thing close to being a dessert in my house right now are social teas (and maybe chyawanprash?). Info, comments, questions?? Thanks all.

Edited by mitkat, 22 April 2008 - 02:15 AM.

[ajnast4r]

i like jarrow whey much better than NOW... it mixed, tastes, and digests a whole lot better. (also veg processing)

[zoolander]

Great programs matey. I pushed for time at the moment and would like to have a good sit down to read what you are doing before I respond with suggestions

[Pablo M]

Moooootkat! Good to finally see your regimen. A few general comments:

1x Natural Factors 5-HTP, 50mg (enteric coated)

You may want to read up on the possible side effects of this. Steven B Harris has written about it here, and I'm sure there's discussion on the forums as well. LEF does not sell this supplement because of the arguments Harris made.

400mg SISU Ester-C Supreme powder

Personally I don't feel there're any compelling reasons to go with Ester-C over regular ascorbic acid or mineral ascorbates. "Ester" C is just oxidized vitamin C anyway. This is a less expensive product that's good.

Between Breakfast and Lunch:
1x AOR Orthocore

You wanna take that with a meal.

Everything looks good, bro. Nice and regimen. I'm liking the high amounts of taurine. Oh, and I can second the statement by Ajnast that Jarrow whey is good stuff.

[kevink]

i like jarrow whey much better than NOW... it mixed, tastes, and digests a whole lot better. (also veg processing)

Just throwing this WHEY protien in for those with solid funds:
http://www.wellwisdo.../a_renewpro.php

and their Whey Facts:
http://www.wellwisdom.com/a_facts.php

iHerb carries it for those interested...

iHerb Product Page

Thanks for posting Mit!

One thing though...Knotty Boy dreadlock shampoo. [lol] [lol] [lol]

[health_nutty]

Nice stack MitKat! Your diet looks really good (probably tasty too). mmmm Rooibos chai.

Do you take aged garlic or the 'normal' extract?

I second Pablo's comments on vit C.

I just recently decided to incorperate an AGE inhibitor into my routine (Benfotiamine). Have you considered any (especially since you don't get much carnosine as a vegetarian).

Pomegranate has a lot of good studies behind it (but blueberries should also have you covered). Maybe a mix?

Did you feel like Chlorella is helping you? I've dropped spirulina recently to make room in my budget for something with more research behind it (and I wasn't sure it was really doing anything).

[Mind]

So Mitkat, do you think your regimen is worth the cost and time? I mean....do you feel super? (you look super). Do you have a lot of energy? Or do you think you feel like anyone your age would? Does your regimen give you a physical or mental edge?

[mitkat]

Moooootkat! Good to finally see your regimen. A few general comments:

Personally I don't feel there're any compelling reasons to go with Ester-C over regular ascorbic acid or mineral ascorbates. Ester-C is just oxidized vitamin C anyway.

Thanks Dante, I still need to re-tool when I take orthocore. With the vit c, I had read a lot of info on bioflavonoids to help facilitate absorbtion of c in the body. Do you think I'd have enough flavonoids in general floating through my body to ensure good absorbtion? I know I've got more to read up on 5-HTP also but I've found it's worked well for me on and off for a few years....ahhh, guess I need to source some tryptamine.

Nice stack MitKat!  Your diet looks really good (probably tasty too).  mmmm Rooibos chai.

Do you take aged garlic or the 'normal' extract?

I just recently decided to incorperate an AGE inhibitor into my routine (Benfotiamine).  Have you considered any (especially since you don't get much carnosine as a vegetarian).

Pomegranate has a lot of good studies behind it (but blueberries should also have you covered).  Maybe a mix?

Did you feel like Chlorella is helping you?  I've dropped spirulina recently to make room in my budget for something with more research behind it (and I wasn't sure it was really doing anything).

Hey nutty, yeah I take the aged garlic from kyolic. I only really get carnosine from the AOR veg booster, but it's 300mg 3x a day...I've heard some on not over doing carnosine, and I feel happy with my amount of just shy of a gram. I drink a pomegranate concetrate juice that is probably no good for me I am looking more into the fruit extracts, and will prolly nab some of this also. Chlorella I feel is doing something, but I couldn't tell you what. I have faith in algae consumption as a historical and nutritious food...I took spirulina also and stopped - no more iron for me plus I just didn't get anything from it.

So Mitkat, do you think your regimen is worth the cost and time? 

Thanks Mind, I am in the process of working out the prices per month of my regime and will post them soon. I feel it's a fairly inexpensive stack that covers many of the bases, but the key for me is simply eating well and not having to supplement (mainly that I do not get from meat). So yeah, it's totally worth the time!

 
I mean....do you feel super? (you look super). Do you have a lot of energy? Or do you think you feel like anyone your age would? Does your regimen give you a physical or mental edge?

Hehe, thanks! I feel pretty super. I've always been a *fairly* energetic person, but not so much as now. At 25, I feel like I'm on top of the world, to put it mildly! I am focusing on my last year with great concentration (most of the time ) and certain vigour, and find myself more passionate about things in general. And yes, I do chalk it up to eating right, supplements, physical exercise (kundalini yoga and cardio) and mental exercise (being in school/learning in general). I'd like to stress again that I'm essentially on a refined sugar-free diet. As for a mental edge, I'm doing very well in school and am pumped about my research projects on the go this year. Physical edge....hmmm, I dunno. I'm not hyper-athletic, I just try to do 1/2 hour of cardio 5x a week, and I do 1/2 hour of yoga everyday.

Thanks for the whey info kevink....and as they say, "if it's nappy, you're happy". [thumb]

[mitkat]

i like jarrow whey much better than NOW... it mixed, tastes, and digests a whole lot better. (also veg processing)

This is just what I've been looking for (most likely ). Now I just need to find it! Thanks ajna

[mitkat]

Adding Pomeratrol and replacing regular Kyolic Garlic product with Kyolic Extra Stength Once a Day. I figure it's not that much of a price difference for a more potent and safe product.

Come on Zoo...waiting for ya, buddy

[nicholandrew]

Post deleted due to commercial links

Edited by zoolander, 23 January 2007 - 07:57 AM.

[mitkat]

Going to add Glutamine and Arginine to my stack, as I'm hoping to up my workouts to actually include, you know, more weights n' stuff. Would the placement of these supps be totally dependant on when I am working out?

[Shepard]

It really depends on the purpose of the supplement. If you're wanting them strictly for standard exercise reasons, you can pretty much just toss them around your training. Standard is arginine pre, glutamine post. But, if you aren't going strictly for "the pump", you can toss in the arginine post workout, too.

[zoolander]

Ok here goes....

First of all AOR's orthocore and veg booster are 2 great choices. Orthocore contains chlorophyllin (300mg), resveratrol and I-C-3 which are all great compounds with some strong science to support their inclusion.

Comments on what you are currently taking.....

Overall it's a good program.

Re. the 5-HTP.... It seems unusual that you take 5-HTP in the morning. Have you tried taking this in the evening before bed? I take 5-HTP with my before bed supps. I find it maintains a deeper sleep.

Re. the hydergine.....any reasoning behind why you would take this after lunch? From my understanding Hydergine is usually taken before meals and in multiple doses per day. The plasma half life is roughly 2.6-5.1 hours hence the multiple dosing. Take half of the 2.25mg on waking with your morning supps and then another 1.25mg later in the day before meals and see how it goes.

Re. NAC.....I see you take this before bed. Reasoning? I generaly take 2 dosages per day. Non-timed release NAC has a very short plasma half life. Hence I take a sustained released form put out by Jarrow. The sustained release form is said to have a plasma half-life of roughly 6 hours. I take it on an empty stomach on waking and then take another dose later in the day before meals. I stack the NAC with vitamin C because vitamin C has been shown to minmise the oxidation of GSH to GSSG. Nac is a precursor to GSH (Glutathione) and it seems reasonable to assure that you do what you can to maintain GSH in it's unoxidaized for so that it can quench those nasty ROS. For the record, I use a sustained release Vitamin C (1mg) by NOW FOODS with each dose.

Re. melatonin.....any reason why you don't use this everynighty? As far as anti-aging supplements go, melatonin is well researched and shown by many studies to act not just as a geroprotector but a strong health promoter. See my articles or topics about melatonin.

Re. Theanine.....I find this to be great as an anti-anxiety supp. I take this with my before bed supps.

Going to add Glutamine and Arginine to my stack, as I'm hoping to up my workouts to actually include, you know, more weights n' stuff. Would the placement of these supps be totally dependant on when I am working out?

Both awesome additions. I would place glutamine (2-3g/dose) before breakfast and before an afternoon meal. Re. the arginine.....I would place this before your afternoon meal (1g) and then before bed (1g). Re. the placement of supplements to maximize recovery with weight training. The important thing here is the placement and timing of your protein supp. I would take approaximately 30g protein 45-60min before training and then repeat with 30g protein after training with approximately 3 x amount in CHO for post training meal. So post training meal should be roughly 30g protein and 1g/kg CHO.

I think the most important thing about your entire program is how you are eating. You appear to have a great diet. I would maintain focus on this as well. It's common place to lose yourself in building a supplement regime and forget about the most important and enjoyable component which is the food you eat.

Overall a great stack. I used this post to comment on your existing program and will post back in the next day or so with some possible additions

Edited by zoolander, 07 January 2007 - 10:52 PM.

[zoolander]

Ok then what about my recommendations

Beta glucan (An immune system activator) add to your morning before meals supps

Supps for the mind. I'm choosing the products below because they are on sale and hence it's a cheap way to try out some new supps to see how you respond

DMAE & Huperzine A (AChE inhibitor)
you can get both of these in a supplement currently on sale at iherb.com. The supplement is called brainspeed and will cost you $4.99 (60tabs) reduced from $39.99

Chose either the Attention form (with Theanine) or the Perform (with Rhodiola). You are not currently taking Rhodiola so I would recommend the Perform version of Brain speed. Check Brainspeed Perform out.

Someone else mentioned benfotiamine. I recommend this as well. Take 150mg with meals twice a day

Phytosterols/stanols are great compounds that assist in cholesterol maintanence. I use a product called Cholestatin made by NOW FOODS

If you are training in the gym I would consider taking creatine. As a vegetarian you should respond extremely well to creatine supplementation. PM for directions on how to load and maintain once done.

That's it for now Timmah!

[mitkat]

Zoolander,

RE: my weird supplement timings. I've just been reacting to them positively so far, looking for advice on how to re-arrange things for maximum...metabolization. [sfty] Certain supps I've never been too certain with. Melatonin...I dunno. I am just hesitant to take something like this every night. My family has sleeping problems, and I'm hesitant of taking such a substance every night so young to help me sleep. Not its only function to be certain, but I sleep fairly well now and feel (however subjective) that my hormone production is adequate. I've not ruled it out, just looking for more research, possibly some indicators through bloodwork.

Considering if I should switch the timing of 5-HTP or just cut it out completely. I'm probably going to decrease my dose to nothing over a week or so and see how I feel, taking it soley at night.

I've got my hands on some Ortho-Mineral, when should I place this in my regimen? Never taken a mineral supplement before, just zinc (and I've always known I should...yeesh). I've also started taking AOR Total E, but probably only 2x a week with a fatty meal. Whatever that is [huh]

Edited by mitkat, 17 January 2007 - 08:20 AM.

[mitkat]

This was addressed to Zoo, but anyone please reply with info on scheduling this supplement, and let the recommendations fly. Beta-glucans, does anyone have any good sources? If I recall, slow-cook oats were a good source of them, however I'm not really making oatmeal everyday now...it's too hard and I don't have the time.

Edited by mitkat, 17 January 2007 - 08:22 AM.

[kenj]

5-HTP is a keeper in my plan, I take it *sometimes* in the evening, and I get the superior sleep 7+ hours, and wake up reborn every time.
I do not really notice the difference after a while, but I did when dropping it completely for several weeks. For example, for comparison, several cups of coffee, followed by 5 hours of sleep -- it's just not the same optimistic bliss the next morning.
If I were to take melatonin in several milligrams it would have to carry *unique* anti-aging effects on its own, perhaps it does, but I doubt it:
5-HTP does help in melatonin production also; when you take it early in the day, you would produce serotonin during the day for the pineal gland to convert serotonin -> melatonin, so you're naturally assured a sound sleep w/higher levels of melatonin in circulation. And the piles of clinical studies re: 5-HTP and helping depression, normalizing obesity, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, migraine and tension headaches etc. tell me this is a great, miraculous, pro-health/anti-ageing supplement, beyond melatonins capacity. Anecdotally I'm NOT obese, depressed, having headaches or in any chronic pain, good stuff.
It would be interesting to hear your followup if you drop it completely, perhaps for a few weeks, but I really don't know why you should. Yeah, taking breaks from it, seems like a decent idea.

Re: theanine, - yesterday, loaded with work, I took 1 cap (225mg) theanine with a little SNACK (perhaps even 50-100mg might do the trick), and this worked excellent for a 30 mins relaxing nap, - upon awakening it's like experienxcing several hours of sleep, and I can enjoy the evening in a calm, yet alert state of mind. I like to keep this one low dose (anecdotally 700mg didn't really provide the same effects for me), and cycle it. I plan to add a little EGCG, inositol, IP6 and, WHEN NEEDED, the theanine to a cup of green tea for a truly relaxing, immune strengthening (boosting inositol phosphates in cells) drink to use twice daily -- if I can find the time to enjoy it in. ;-)

Re: Beta Glucans, OatMILK is a practical option, if you can find a low sugar source? I use AOR's beta glucans and/or a shot of oatmilk in my breakfast once in a while.
Re: the minerals, I'm sitting here staring at 199 caps of Ortho-Minerals, not sure if I really would need the (although tiny amount of) copper in addition to what I get in food, but I would take the minerals throughout the day with meals always, whenever practical. Ideally in the evening perhaps, so we get the co-factors for hormonal/neurochemical production during the night.

I'm guessing you're on a low-calorish diet (even when/if not aiming for it?) being vegetarian, and minimizing sugar/crap calories in diet?
"I consume store baked multi-grain sliced bread probably 6x a month". !. I'm down to having some 1-2 slices of whole-grain/rye bread/3x weekly, LOL, getting there.
Thx for posting.

[mitkat]

Updated the stack a little over the past few months.

Removed:
Natural Factors 5-HTP, 50mg (enteric coated)

Added: Biosil Liquid, Advanced Neptune Krill Oil Complex, Oat Beta-Glucans, AOR Ortho-Mineral, AOR Total E, Dessert Essence Toothpaste, and an extra 1000 UI of vitamin D3 (Canadian winters, you know).


Concerns:
Krill oil = High DHA, low Astaxanthin = stupid idea?
What am I forgetting?

Edited by mitkat, 08 March 2007 - 12:19 AM.

[zoolander]

Tim, both my partner and I have noticed a significant different in the condition of out nails after using biosil. I now have to cut my nail almost weekly.

[mitkat]

I was taking the pills of BioSil for a bit, from that same strange company (Jarrow is very hard to come in Canada, IME)...I believe the liquid would have a higher absorption rate, possibly even better bioavailablility. It was only a bottle of 30 or 40 or sumthin', not long enough to really show any difference. But this bottle is HUGE, and will last some time. I'm pretty pumped on this terrible tasting stuff.

edit: too bad biosil doesn't improve my brain's functionality.

Edited by mitkat, 06 March 2007 - 09:17 AM.

[wayside]

Concerns:
Krill oil = High DHA, low Astaxanthin = stupid idea?
What am I forgetting?

Are you really taking a tablespoon of fish oil every day? 12 grams seems like an awful lot.

Are you taking the krill oil just to get the astaxanthin? That particular product is lower in astaxanthin than most of the krill oil I've seen. The stuff I take has 1.5 mg /1 gram, vs. 0.9 mg/1 gram for yours.

Although considering how much fish oil you are taking, and how expensive krill oil is, it doesn't seem like it would be worth it to take the krill oil at all.

[mitkat]

Concerns:
Krill oil = High DHA, low Astaxanthin = stupid idea?
What am I forgetting?

Are you really taking a tablespoon of fish oil every day? 12 grams seems like an awful lot.

Are you taking the krill oil just to get the astaxanthin? That particular product is lower in astaxanthin than most of the krill oil I've seen. The stuff I take has 1.5 mg /1 gram, vs. 0.9 mg/1 gram for yours.

Although considering how much fish oil you are taking, and how expensive krill oil is, it doesn't seem like it would be worth it to take the krill oil at all.

Lol, I actually meant to say teaspoon. [tung] 12 grams would be a monstrous dose indeed. I'm taking the krill oil because it was on sale fairly cheap and I've been interested in it for a while now, due to the high ORAC value and the astaxanthin content. Part of the reason it was on sale was no doubt because it's a blend of some krill oil with other fish oils. If I feel anything from it or read anything more convincing about it I might invest in a purer product, but like you say, it is expensive, and I'm not convinced I need it.

[Shepard]

Lol, I actually meant to say teaspoon. [tung] 12 grams would be a monstrous dose indeed.

Pansies. Gotta be hardcore like Poliquin and his 45g fat-loss (death) protocol.

[shadowrun]

Has anyone seen any skin improvement with the Biosil -
(i'm looking at trying the more soluble liquid drop formula)

[mitkat]

Pansies. Gotta be hardcore like Poliquin and his 45g fat-loss (death) protocol.

I was just looking for a quote from you about someone talking about taking 12 grams of fish oil and you calling them a frail old woman or something...lol, can't remember exactly.

Has anyone seen any skin improvement with the Biosil -
(i'm looking at trying the more soluble liquid drop formula)

This is what I'm most interested in. That and hair, anything that makes my hair maintenance any easier would be beneficial [tung]

[wayside]

If I feel anything from it or read anything more convincing about it I might invest in a purer product, but like you say, it is expensive, and I'm not convinced I need it.

Krill oil was my first supplement, and led me to me current regimen (and this forum). On 1 gram/day, it made a noticeable difference in the pains in my joints, particularly my knees.

I think fish oil would do the same, although from I read somewhere you need 5x as much because the phospholipid form of the omega3 in krill oil has much higher availability than the triglyceride form in fish oil. 5 gm of fish oil is probably 1/2 the price or less than 1 gm of krill oil; I will be looking into changing when my supply of krill oil runs out.

The drawback for fish oil, so I have heard, is "fish burps". Hopefully that won't be a problem.

[mitkat]

I'm one of the cool kids - added one tablespoon of Chyawanprash.

[shadowrun]

I'm one of the cool kids - added one tablespoon of Chyawanprash.

Thats an insane herbal mix!

Crazy ass website too [thumb]

I'm gonna drop the $17 and buy a bottle of Biosil liquid next time I go to the supplement store -

[mitkat]

Thats an insane herbal mix!

Crazy ass website too  [thumb]

I'm gonna drop the $17 and buy a bottle of Biosil liquid next time I go to the supplement store -

I had to post that website...so delectably cheesy [thumb] I've been looking into taking chyawanprash for quite a while, ajnast4r takes it also, and it really appeals to me. We'll see how it works out.

Biosi has some really good studies to back it up, I'm excited about it being in regiment. Looks like a wise investment!