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Doctor's Best resveratrol


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#31 maxwatt

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:23 PM

Fo-ti is also supposed to be a laxative.  Any issues with that dosage?


Unprocessed Fo Ti is a laxative, it contains emodin. the Chinese have a method for removing it, by boiling the root in a liquid that is derived from black beans (maybe the soaking liquid, when cooking black beans?). The processed Fo Ti is a non-laxative. It contains a resveratrol analog according to Chinese researchers.


Do you know if all (or most) extracts are processed this way?


Most capsules sold in the US are from unprocessed Fo Ti; you can tell the difference by the color of the powder. Unprocessed is a light brown color, processed is dark, reddish. If it doesn't say 'processed' on the label, assume it isn't.

Nature's Answer makes a 12:1 liquid extract from processed Fo Ti root. A 1 ml dropper gives approximately 50 mg of the resveratrol analog if I remember my calculations correctly. I used this for a while before I found a source of 98% resveratrol extract from China (with no emodin), and before I obtained some Orchid synthetic from Paul, and after I used a 25% extract that introduced me to emodin's undesired effects.

An effect I noted from resveratrol, reduced sensitivity to cold, was apparent with all the resveratrol products, and with the Fo Ti extract. I did not note this effect with bilberry extract. At ten dollars per 30 ml bottle, Nature's Answer is not cost effective as a CR mimetic, IMO.

The active resveratrol analog is 2,3,5,4'-tetrahydroxystilbene-2-O-beta-D-glucoside (see PMID: 16313126 ).

#32 maxwatt

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 11:43 AM

If he posted a COA and an independent lab analysis for each batch on his website, it would help.

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#33 health_nutty

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 03:24 PM

I'm willing to give revGenetics a reasonable amount of time to do what he said he would do before I make any judgement. Things do take longer to do than they appear. The website for example may have been contracted out.

Maybe a good first step is to post a pdf of he COA here.

#34 tintinet

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Posted 28 February 2007 - 06:23 PM

Mixed review for RevGenetics so far, IMO.

I applaud Anthony for his presence and input here on the forum.

The website is more slick than informative, and, as maxmatt notes, would be better served by providing COAs for their product.

BTW, Anthony, do you know if your product will be part of ConsumerLab.com's upcoming resveratrol supplement ratings report?

#35 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:48 PM

You had alot to say today...

I will respond accordingly.

#36 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 01 March 2007 - 05:12 PM

Addison Strack you mention the following:

Addison:
The one "partner" with a scientific background you've bragged about is in California. You haven't been able to describe exactly what he does to contribute to your operation, nor how his expertise is put towards making sure that what you sell is pure, clean, and potent. We don't know his name. We don't know what he does.

My Response:
A post in the link below states what he is in charge of, go ahead read it, then come back...
http://www.imminst.o...&t=14124&st=220
Ok… now that you are back, you ask what his name is. Since he is in Miami right now, and I will ask him to look over this forum post, I have the feeling that a decision will be made not to have his name released at this time, and I am sure you will yell about it, but it is simply is not my decision regarding when to make it public. Likely it will be done through a press release in the near future.

Addison:
You say you have a small operation and it's hard to get things off the ground -- if that is so, then why have you already started to sell product before doing any of the basics of creating a presentable business?

My Response:
I have placed a business on the internet and sell the product we believe in, we believe it is a presentable business. What you consider a presentable business may be someone like Amazon who simply is on the internet to make money, and sells any and every product, with lots of nifty web technology. What you may consider “the basics for business presentation” is your opinion at this point. I believe your opinion has merit, as I would like to see us grow, and sell more products that we believe in and have a much better website. For now, we have our current one.

Addison:
Is your financial situation so precarious that you can't make the basic investment of putting forth a presentable web front?

My Response:
No, I am not in a financially precarious situation, thanks for the concern. Regarding our website, see my response above, thanks.

Addison:
Your current website is just an obvious copy of brainclone.com, an unsuccessful company you started a few years ago with similar ambitious claims about product quality. If you are so tight for cash or time that you just threw that up on the web with the hope of quickly selling pills, then what does that suggest about the quality of your product?

My Response:
Brainclone.com was created to sell software and items for the PPC, go to the wayback machine if you would like to see what was sold at that site. A couple folks I am associated with wanted to work on some new software. They had some interesting ideas revolving around business webservices, and workflow systems for development. I asked our Flex guy to copy the RevGenetics site to Brainclone.com and that we would consider bringing it back. But it has not been worked on at this point.

Addison:
It suggests to me that you need money fast, that you're probably in this business alone with your savings invested, you didn't have the money to invest in a web presence let alone in sanitary manufacturing facilities or the oversight of experts, and you absolutely must sell your pills no matter what or face serious personal losses of probably your entire savings.

My Response:
I don’t need money fast, I am not in business alone, Again, regarding web presence, see response above. We joined the NPA regarding GMP, and they are a great resource if you are building a business, we are very grateful to them and their expertise. We don not face any serious personal losses, but I thank you for your concern. We are a business, believe in our product, and simply advertise to sell our products, like all businesses do.

Addison:
If you're not able to do the most basic of things, putting out an informative internet presence on a simple webpage, then how can I trust you with the task of bottling pills which meet complicated safety and sanitation requirements?

My Response:
Web presence has been established, although I (like you) am thinking it can be improved. Encapsulation, and sanitation is not terribly complicated if you have had help from folks at the NPA, and a person who has done this previously.

Addison:
How can I trust you to oversee the subcontracting of the encapsulation and bottling?

My Response:
At this point, I am not sure I can change your mind regardless of the proof I hand you. So yes I don’t know how you, in particular, can trust me. I believe that is ok, I believe there are other products out there for you, and that you should consider those that you have enjoyed in the past.

Addison:
It isn't even apparent to me that your operation is anything more than your own self, a website you ripped off from your own previous failed business, and some certificates of analysis which may or may not reflect the actual content of your capsules.

My Response:
It is not by myself, the website question was answered above, and the COAs have been emailed to anyone requesting it. If you believe I made the COA up, then I will certainly be asked to stop production by the NPA and their TruLabel program when the product is tested.

Addison:
For god's sake, you don't even have a proper credit card merchant account; you expect people to pay you through paypal, and your site violates paypals acceptable use policy regarding dietary supplements.

My Response:
Credit card merchant accounts allow one to bill a users credit card either through a website, fax, or by phone. Please, if you want to buy one of our products by phone, or fax, feel free to email me. I will send you my number, or fax number and accept your credit card payment over the phone. We don’t have operators, so you will likely get me on the line. Now, because paypal is used, this doesn’t mean it is not an acceptable method to pay for goods and services. The person paying by paypal is in fact protected in case I don’t deliver what I advertise. I think it’s a pretty basic to see how this is acceptable to most folks. The question regarding paypal’s acceptable use policy: Well, I believe we are good all the way around on that one. Please have everyone read it for themselves, here is the link. Simply put, our labels comply:

https://www.paypal.c...prescript_drugs

Addison:
You can't afford a decent website, and you're not competent enough to code one yourself. You can't afford to hire someone to rewrite the text on your website to be at least proper and grammatical, and you are not competent enough to rewrite it yourself.

My Response:
I don’t believe we have grammatical errors on the site, but I will have this reviewed when the website is updated. Can you let me know what you have found? Thanks.

Addison:
You continue to describe other people who are partners in your business, but you can't really describe who they are or what exactly they do.

My Response:
I believe I have answered this question above, thanks.

Addison:
After witnessing all of this, how am I going to conclude that you have the competence and the significant resources required to properly procure and adequately oversee the manufacturing of your product?

My Response:
I believe I have answered this question above, thanks

Addison:
I'm going to follow you around here, hound you, and bring out the same old questions about you, your company, and your product.

My Response:
Your criticisms are welcomed and appreciated. Again, it allows me to see what information appears to be on some people’s minds. I know I will always have critics, and that is ok, what is important is to note the things we need to work on. Previously I mentioned we would be making changes to our website, and we will. This does take some time, and we are going to release our changes with the release of our next product. For now it will remain the same, with a few minor changes here and there.

Maxwatt and health_nutty, please email me for the COA, I will not post it here as it can change slightly with each batch, and more importantly I would like to keep a record of folks I have sent it to. Right now I have one person who is adamant about emodin content, and I have promised him that if any of our batches are tested below 25mg, that I will notify him of it so he can consider a purchase. For now I have told him, we are not at that level.

Tintinet, at this time we haven’t been notified if product will not be a part of the upcoming Resveratrol supplement ratings report. I have asked about it from CL, and awaiting some response.

Thanks for the comments everyone, I hope I have answered your questions, and please email me, if you have personal comments or questions.

Thanks again,

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#37 fearfrost

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 02:50 AM

You know, I am pretty impressed with your responses. Despite the hard time I and others have given you, you always answer with a level head and remain professional. After reading all your posts over the past few days, I am convinced to give you a try. I will be submitting an order within this week.

EDIT: Anthony, I did a quick comparison of your product to country life... and sadly country life won on a grams RSV/$ basis. I am sorry to say that I will no longer be buying from you at this time. Maybe in the future.

Edited by fearfrost, 02 March 2007 - 03:12 AM.


#38 stephend

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 02:59 AM

Well just over a week of resveratrol usage, I am taking RevGenetics R500 ( I did not have prior knowledge that this was the RevGenetics bashing forum, who would have thought?) anyhow I take one tablet 500mg trans RVS first thing each morning. First three or four days my throat felt a little strange, my tongue and throat were a little numb, kind of have a ´´cotton mouth´´ feeling, but not, because my mouth is wet. Slight loss of appetite, still eating five times daily, but now not compulsively hungry {unusual for me especially late in the evening this can be a problem but is not} I think it is because of the numbness, this sure is an expensive appetite suppressant?

Sleep is very sound and deep, but do not have a problem waking up in the morning. Now an appetite suppressant and sedative this could be cost effective! I am not sure about general alertness, I am concerned that at times I am “foggy” but not all the time, will continue to watch this (can not blame everything on RSV).

My GI track “Gurgles” a little, but the emodin content has not acted as a laxative at this level of usage, and the last couple of days have had less gurgling, maybe I’m adjusting to it. I am however really glad about the suggestion of ramping it up. I will stay at this level another week before going to 1000mg per day. (Would be very interested in a low emodin batch)

Too early for a prediction on energy level, when training this week, HR went up quickly under load and I reached exhaustion very fast. I contribute this more to the marathon Sunday before last, still recovering.

As for RevGenetics, I placed my order online on 2-13-07, I received an email on 2-15-07 that stated:

Quote:
Due to current weather conditions affecting the U.S. and our supply chain, your order has been delayed. We estimate your shipment to be out in approximately 3 days.

We apologize for this inconvenience. We wanted to notify you of the current delay and assure you we are working hard to fulfill your order as quickly as possible.

We thank you again for choosing RevGenetics products. Feel free to email us with any questions you may have.

Sincerely yours,

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

I received my order on 2-20-07 (this sure is a lot more professional experience than the guy who has been waiting for over two months to receive product). So far I am very pleased with the service and responsiveness of RevGenetics.

#39 tintinet

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 12:26 PM

CL product also contains:

Grape Seed Extract (Providing flavonoid compounds-95 % total polyphenols equals to 47.5 mg) 50 mg *

Grape Skin Extract (25 % polyphenols equal to 6.25 mg including proanthocyanidins) 25 mg *

Pine Bark Extract (85 % biologically active flavonoids equal to 21 mg including proanthocyanidins) 25 mg *
* Daily Value not established.

Yet, does anyone have a COA for the CL product?

#40 maxwatt

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 03:09 PM

You know, I am pretty impressed with your responses.  Despite the hard time I and others have given you, you always answer with a level head and remain professional.  After reading all your posts over the past few days, I am convinced to give you a try.  I will be submitting an order within this week.

EDIT:  Anthony, I did a quick comparison of your product to country life... and sadly country life won on a grams RSV/$ basis.  I am sorry to say that I will no longer be buying from you at this time.  Maybe in the future.


Country Life is fairly high in emodin, which i inferred from the unpleasant laxative effect it had on some people I've communicated with. You may be one of the lucky ones who can adapt to it, or who have a high tolerance. Revgenetics claim a low emodin content, but I cannot confirm that.


fixed grammatical error

Edited by maxwatt, 03 March 2007 - 11:47 PM.


#41 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 09:47 PM

You know, I am pretty impressed with your responses.  Despite the hard time I and others have given you, you always answer with a level head and remain professional.  After reading all your posts over the past few days, I am convinced to give you a try.  I will be submitting an order within this week.

EDIT:  Anthony, I did a quick comparison of your product to country life... and sadly country life won on a grams RSV/$ basis.  I am sorry to say that I will no longer be buying from you at this time.  Maybe in the future.


That is fine fearfrost...

Can you provide a link so that we can check pricing? I am always interested in competition pricing that can make an impact on our own for the benefit of the customer.

thanks again

Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#42 tom a

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 10:09 PM

Anthony,

Let me emphasize what maxwatt brings up: the $/rsv is only ONE factor in our choices for a vendor.

Many of us, me included, simply can't tolerate, say, 500mg of Country Life resv a day. Too much emodin.

Any resv vendor who, well, eliminates this problem will pull in a great many customers.

#43 tintinet

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 10:39 PM

Anthony,

Let me emphasize what maxwatt brings up: the $/rsv is only ONE factor in our choices for a vendor.

Many of us, me included, simply can't tolerate, say, 500mg of Country Life resv a day. Too much emodin.

Any resv vendor who, well, eliminates this problem will pull in a great many customers.


Yea, verily!!!! [:o]

#44 fearfrost

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 10:40 PM

Anthony Loera, here is the link:

http://www.allstarhe...ratrol_plus.htm

Not only is it cheaper, but it also contains other extracts (grape seed / skin) that appeal to me due to the synergistic effects, the stability effects, and all the other positive effects that I have read about or imagined. Seems like it would be closer to wine with all those extracts and it could help keep the resveratrol in my body longer since other polyphenols would be metabolized by the same enzymes. Im just pulling this stuff out of my head so I have no references... i just remember reading it somewhere or making it up, who knows. Isnt emodin supposed to be good for you too, as long as you can get passed the laxative effects??

#45 health_nutty

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Posted 02 March 2007 - 11:53 PM

I don't have a problem with CL. The first day or two I too a few more trips to the can, but not a big deal really. No gas problems

Strange because too much oat bran really gives me horrible gas as does too much beans. Weird that I'm sensitive to gas causing foods but apparently not emodin.

#46 dillon

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 04:20 AM

I take three Country Life Rez Plus's and one Bioforte per day.

Occasional minor stomach rumbling, but no increase in "gas output," which is important, as I certainly don't want to accelerate global warming.

For those who are experiencing stomach problems from too much Rez, you should probably cut back. If you don't, sure you may live a little longer, but your conscience will bear the scars of knowing that your sphinctal spewing has resulted in drowned polar bears.

#47 tintinet

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:16 AM

I take three Country Life Rez Plus's and one Bioforte per day.

Occasional minor stomach rumbling, but no increase in "gas output," which is important, as I certainly don't want to accelerate global warming.

For those who are experiencing stomach problems from too much Rez, you should probably cut back.  If you don't, sure you may live a little longer, but your conscience will bear the scars of knowing that your sphinctal spewing has resulted in drowned polar bears.


Uh, right....

But it ain't the resveratrol that's the issue with GI changes, it's emodin. If ya really wanna spare the world excess emmissions,
exchange yer lightbulbs from incandescent to fluorescent, use energy efficient appliances,
unplug dormant devices (TV, DVD players, sound systems, computers), improver yer
domestic insulation and thermal efficiency, etc.

#48 xanadu

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Posted 03 March 2007 - 10:09 PM

Very well said, tintinet

But it ain't the resveratrol that's the issue with GI changes, it's emodin. If ya really wanna spare the world excess emmissions,
exchange yer lightbulbs from incandescent to fluorescent, use energy efficient appliances,
unplug dormant devices (TV, DVD players, sound systems, computers), improver yer
domestic insulation and thermal efficiency, etc.



#49 sentinel

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 09:42 AM

I'm now on the Rez bandwagon with 3 x country life a day, probably going to 4 next week. Absolutely no problems with "gas"( or wind as we say in the UK), laxative effects etc.
I think people should just buy a bottle and see how they get on as the emodin doesn't effect everyone and there is a lot of money to be saved if you have no negative effects from it.

Sentinel

#50 lucid

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:05 AM

A possible word of advice to everyone having gas problems. Our fraternity cook makes some nasty food, and I have been having problems with gas since I moved in the house. Eating certain types of yogurt can help. Its yogurts with probiotics, Dannon makes a product called Activia. Im sure there are lots of others. I'm not taking Trans Rez yet but think I will be soon.

I thought studies done were showing that Rez wasn't staying in the bloodstream any significant length of time 'in vivo'. Otherwise I would start taking it now. Anyone know?

#51 lucid

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 11:51 AM

There is some evidence that emodin might be a tumor suppressant. I think it induces apoptosis in some types of cancer. Cervical Cancer I think.

#52 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 02:40 PM

Anthony,

Let me emphasize what maxwatt brings up: the $/rsv is only ONE factor in our choices for a vendor.

Many of us, me included, simply can't tolerate, say, 500mg of Country Life resv a day. Too much emodin.

Any resv vendor who, well, eliminates this problem will pull in a great many customers.


Yea, verily!!!! [:o]



It still is a bit off, (1-2 months) but it's something we are working on.

#53 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 02:43 PM

Anthony Loera, here is the link:

http://www.allstarhe...ratrol_plus.htm

Not only is it cheaper, but it also contains other extracts (grape seed / skin) that appeal to me due to the synergistic effects, the stability effects, and all the other positive effects that I have read about or imagined.  Seems like it would be closer to wine with all those extracts and it could help keep the resveratrol in my body longer since other polyphenols would be metabolized by the same enzymes.  Im just pulling this stuff out of my head so I have no references... i just remember reading it somewhere or making it up, who knows.  Isnt emodin supposed to be good for you too, as long as you can get passed the laxative effects??



Thanks fearfrost,

we will look into the pricing, and see if we can meet it.

BTW: I believe pricing for the 500mg capsules won't change, I am referring to a new product.

Thanks
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#54 Jimmy

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 06:55 PM

Does Resvertrol have sulfates? I'm allergic to red wine because the darker the wine the more sulfates it has.

Thanks.

#55 tintinet

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 10:17 PM

Ought not be, and can't imagine there'd be any in the synthetic, FWIW.

#56 health_nutty

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 02:00 AM

Too early for a prediction on energy level, when training this week, HR went up quickly under load and I reached exhaustion very fast.  I contribute this more to the marathon Sunday before last, still recovering.


I'm very curious to hear how the t-res affects your running. I can't tell because most of my cardio comes from playing ultimate frisbee 2-3x a week. The one or two extra days I run are more recovery runs where I'm not timing myself. I also lift weights and haven't noticed any out of the ordinary there.

However being a marathon runner you'll have a good baseline of before and after performance (I'm assuming you keep training logs).

#57 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 05:27 PM

Anthony Loera, here is the link:

http://www.allstarhe...ratrol_plus.htm

Not only is it cheaper, but it also contains other extracts (grape seed / skin) that appeal to me due to the synergistic effects, the stability effects, and all the other positive effects that I have read about or imagined.  Seems like it would be closer to wine with all those extracts and it could help keep the resveratrol in my body longer since other polyphenols would be metabolized by the same enzymes.  Im just pulling this stuff out of my head so I have no references... i just remember reading it somewhere or making it up, who knows.  Isnt emodin supposed to be good for you too, as long as you can get passed the laxative effects??



Thanks fearfrost,

we will look into the pricing, and see if we can meet it.

BTW: I believe pricing for the 500mg capsules won't change, I am referring to a new product.

Thanks
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics



Hi Fearfrost, I wanted to let you know that we are starting to produce a 350mg Capsule for folks that are concerned about taking 500mg or more, and wanted to follow in the footsteps or Dr. Sinclair regarding his daily intake.

the pricing will be as follows:

1 Bottle with 30 Capsules (350mg RSV) $20

Personally I recommend our R500 500mg Capsules, but I was overruled in the production of the new capsule for the general public. People smarter than myself have mentioned that it will allow more folks to try our product, and eventually switch to our R500 capsule.

The change is not on our website, but if you can email me directly if you are interested.

Thanks guys,
Anthony Loera
RevGenetics

#58 tintinet

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:48 PM

Thanks, Anthony!

Will the 350 mg caps contain only resveratrol, or other OPCs, red wine extract,
citrus bioflavinoids, or pine bark extract and the like?

If not, are you considering producing such a product?

Just curious.

#59 fearfrost

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:41 AM

Thanks Anthony. First glance it sounds great. I will have to think about it more later this week as I am very busy right now. I'll email you.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#60 tintinet

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:40 PM

PS, Anthony: Any ideas about a low emodin resveratrol product?

Thanks again!




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