7 replies to this topic

[crayfish]

In its bare bones, we die as we get older because:

- Things wear down and deteriorate (Proteins, DNA, systems, cartilage etc.)
- Cells go crazy and give us cancer (Related to above point, but may require separate treatment therapeutically)

Ok. So...

Would a combination of one therapy that's Really Good at getting rid of cancer

and another that's Really Good at making things that deteriorate, wear down or fall off regenerate

stop ageing, for all intents and purposes, and allow a potentially immortal existence?

[maestro949]

In general, that's the idea.

Cancer is being fought on many fronts and there are numerous potential therapies/solutions for the various types of cancers. I suspect some of these will break through and cancer will be mostly defeated over the coming decades. Hppefully we'll see it in our lifetime.

The human body already has regenerative capabilities via stem cells. Over time these simply stop working for reasons that aren't entirely clear but a lot of research is going into solving this very problem.

Even with both of these though the challenge of an immortal existence is still quite significant. Just stopping cancer and getting stem cells to function is just part of the battle. Damage via viruses, disease, cellular disfunction, environmental factors, etc. accumulate throughout the many systems in the human body. We will likely need to devise many independent targetted solutions for specific aging damage where wholesale therapies do not work.

[Live Forever]

Yes, basically that is it, crayfish. There are seven things that cause us to age and if we could take care of all of them, we would, in essence, cure aging.

Hopefully research can get us to the point where we can cure all seven of these things.

[crayfish]

But wouldn't most of those seven things and the pathogenic/environmental damage that Maestro mentions be abrogated by a decent regenerative system? I was speculating along the lines of for instance... setting up a system where everyone froze down youthful cells to cell banks which could then be persuaded to regain toti- or multi-potency by molecular hijinks (pretty sure this isn't far off reality), grown to a large number in culture and then injected into the same now-older individual... would young stem cells regenerate old, deteriorating tissue into young tissue or would they regenerate it into old tissue? Still hopefully be a regenerative effect anyway as this is what stem cell research aims for.

The junk point from the SENS seven is the only one that wouldn't necessarily be affected by this strategem (combined with a really good cure for cancer as I mentioned) as far as I can see - and maybe with a frequent replenishment of young cells the practical effect of this would be diminished in any case.

[maestro949]

would young stem cells regenerate old, deteriorating tissue into young tissue or would they regenerate it into old tissue?

I've read about human trials where stem cells have been taken, amplified and then reinjected into various tissues where regeneration of the targetted tissues was the goal. Results seem to be mixed. Sometimes there's improvement, sometimes not. There is a lot of research going on here as aging seems to be tied to diminished regenerative function which is one of the primary roles of stem cells. It's odd that as we age, the level of stem cells actually increase yet their ability to rejuvenate declines! So some other age-related increase or decrese in expression is probably inhibiting them. Google heterochronic parabiosis as it deals with this topic. Some of the google hits will lead you back here

[crayfish]

Fascinating, never come across this topic before! Thanks The Conboy et al. (2005) work is especially interesting.

[apocalypse]

In its bare bones, we die as we get older because:

- Things wear down and deteriorate (Proteins, DNA, systems, cartilage etc.)
- Cells go crazy and give us cancer (Related to above point, but may require separate treatment therapeutically)

Ok.  So...

Would a combination of one therapy that's Really Good at getting rid of cancer

and another that's Really Good at making things that deteriorate, wear down or fall off regenerate

stop ageing, for all intents and purposes, and allow a potentially immortal existence?

Potentially, and as potential I would say definitely yes, and for real. But the regeneration has to be far far beyond what we're suggesting here. Normally a single cell should at least remain to regenerate the whole, but a cell has not the information necessary to reconstruct things like a lifetime of experience(brain patterns.), thus we would need a way to use the ideas and works of others to somehow try to revive or resurrect them. If we could take information that is something that can never be destroyed or created, as some would say, and somehow use that to piece together the real person, maybe just maybe that person could be revived by sufficiently advanced science.

PS

Right now I'm trying to cleanse my mind and reorganize it under infallible logical loops(infinitely expanding logical loop), thus resembling an AGI superintelligence within a finite brain(harnessing external incoming information to arrive at ideal solutions, aka philosopher's stone ideal solutions for times of desperation.), or negentropy engine. SEPHIROTH, or path of the sephiroth is what I'd call this. In reality I'm testing the limits of the placebo effect upon the body.

The brain can organize nations, empires, even entire worlds and keep such indefinitely going practically forever(civilization, look at how long we've gotten and it still keeps going and going and going, and getting better and better and better.), but can it somehow organize or help the body and person take ideal solutions and through placebo effects medicine and solutions it finds along the way keep going indefinitely? I intend to find out.

[crayfish]

Potentially, and as potential I would say definitely yes, and for real.  But the regeneration has to be far far beyond what we're suggesting here.  Normally a single cell should at least remain to regenerate the whole, but a cell has not the information necessary to reconstruct things like a lifetime of experience(brain patterns.), thus we would need a way to use the ideas and works of others to somehow try to revive or resurrect them.  If we could take information that is something that can never be destroyed or created, as some would say, and somehow use that to piece together the real person, maybe just maybe that person could be revived by sufficiently advanced science.

But if the regeneration could be an ongoing or periodic event, all it would have to do would be to counteract the rate of loss of damaged or senescent cells. Regrowing a person from their big toe would be nice but is certainly going to be practically impossible for a long time.

Normally there is a balance between cell loss and cell proliferation, with ageing loss exceeds proliferation. I was thinking that if regeneration could be somehow boosted to a higher level sufficient to match the cell loss in ageing e.g. by replenishment with young stem cells to replace old, senescent cells, this might just do the trick and keep us going! - without any further significant intervention except for the cancer treatment.

PS

Right now I'm trying to cleanse my mind and reorganize it under infallible logical loops(infinitely expanding logical loop), thus resembling an AGI superintelligence within a finite brain(harnessing external incoming information to arrive at ideal solutions, aka philosopher's stone ideal solutions for times of desperation.), or negentropy engine.  SEPHIROTH, or path of the sephiroth is what I'd call this.  In reality I'm testing the limits of the placebo effect upon the body.

The brain can organize nations, empires, even entire worlds and keep such indefinitely going practically forever(civilization, look at how long we've gotten and it still keeps going and going and going, and getting better and better and better.), but can it somehow organize or help the body and person take ideal solutions and through placebo effects medicine and solutions it finds along the way keep going indefinitely? I intend to find out.

Wow, this sounds interesting but lost me a little! Have to let us know if it pans out