After thinking about it overnight, I'm leaning toward thinking that guy is probably the real deal. Either that or he had a bunch of stooges acting like he zapped them But then why demonstrate on the skeptic if he knew it wouldn't work? If you look at the video, you see the skeptic who is a hypnotist, by the way, is not acting casual like he is sure nothing will happen. He isn't smirking or acting confident. He appears to be concentrating and is closing his eyes. I think he is doing some sort of mental exercise that blocks the chi. As I said, for every move there is a counter move and for every counter, there is a counter. I'd say the guy did not know the counter for the counter that the hypnotist was doing. That doesn't mean the hypnotist was stronger, he just stopped it from working.
After thinking about it overnight, I'm leaning toward thinking that guy is probably the real deal. Either that or he had a bunch of stooges acting like he zapped them But then why demonstrate on the skeptic if he knew it wouldn't work? If you look at the video, you see the skeptic who is a hypnotist, by the way, is not acting casual like he is sure nothing will happen. He isn't smirking or acting confident. He appears to be concentrating and is closing his eyes. I think he is doing some sort of mental exercise that blocks the chi. As I said, for every move there is a counter move and for every counter, there is a counter. I'd say the guy did not know the counter for the counter that the hypnotist was doing. That doesn't mean the hypnotist was stronger, he just stopped it from working.
I don't believe the skeptic was a hypnotist. (he never said he was anyway) and whether he had his eyes closed or not doesn't matter. If the no touch knockout works, it works, and if it doesn't (and are only mental suggestion) then it doesn't. I am sure if we had 100 skeptical people off the street, none would be knocked out.
I know that pressure point fighting is very real, but until I see some evidence of the no touch knockout, (either some proof of extra "energy" of some sort which multiple tests have shown no trace of, or proof that it can knock the average person out; not someone that is coming to specifically be knocked out) I will remain highly skeptical. I believe stuff like this are mental tricks, much the same as mentalists and hypnotists use. They can seem amazing, but they are not supernatural by any means.
Note, the pressure point fighting is impressive enough. (to me anyway) I am amazed enough by it! [thumb] I sure wouldn't want to get into a fight with someone like that.
I don't believe the skeptic was a hypnotist. (he never said he was anyway) and whether he had his eyes closed or not doesn't matter. If the no touch knockout works, it works, and if it doesn't (and are only mental suggestion) then it doesn't.
That is not how things work in the real world. Would you say medical science either works or it doesn't work and if it doesn't work on one person, does that totally discredit modern medicine? Of course not. I recall from the clip that he said he was a hypnotist and he believed it was a demonstration of hypnotism. Even if I was mistaken about that it doesn't matter much but that's what I recall. Forget this all or nothing garbage. That's like saying if a karate expert fails to knock out one person, karate is a fraud. Or boxing, or whatever. Get real. If he can do it to one person, then it does work to some extent.
The instructor I had about 13 years ago who told me of his experiences in chicago with a chinese expert said the guy put his fist against my guy's abdomen and asked if he was ready. When he said "yes" the master released the chi and the guy was sent flying backward. A variation on the theme. He also saw it demonstrated on many others I can feel the chi flowing myself and I think I'm close to being able to do some of those things. The proper training is important even if you have the background to do it. I'd love to train with and learn from someone who could really do it. I'm sure it can be blocked or countered to some degree but that's true of all things.
That is not how things work in the real world. Would you say medical science either works or it doesn't work and if it doesn't work on one person, does that totally discredit modern medicine? Of course not. I recall from the clip that he said he was a hypnotist and he believed it was a demonstration of hypnotism. Even if I was mistaken about that it doesn't matter much but that's what I recall. Forget this all or nothing garbage. That's like saying if a karate expert fails to knock out one person, karate is a fraud. Or boxing, or whatever. Get real. If he can do it to one person, then it does work to some extent.
The instructor I had about 13 years ago who told me of his experiences in chicago with a chinese expert said the guy put his fist against my guy's abdomen and asked if he was ready. When he said "yes" the master released the chi and the guy was sent flying backward. A variation on the theme. He also saw it demonstrated on many others I can feel the chi flowing myself and I think I'm close to being able to do some of those things. The proper training is important even if you have the background to do it. I'd love to train with and learn from someone who could really do it. I'm sure it can be blocked or countered to some degree but that's true of all things.
Fair enough. If he could demonstrate that there is any outside power, through scans or detection equipment of any kind (which has not been shown during tests before) then I would be more apt to believe it.
..or alternatively, if he claims that it is something that can not be detected by modern equipment, if someone shows that they can reliably knock just the random person off the street out (of course in a controlled environment controlling for hypnotic suggestion) in a statistically significant amount of the time, then I would be more apt to believe him.
I am not making a claim either way on the matter, just saying it is a really, really unlikely thing. If he really did have these powers, he could collect the James Randi million dollar prize that has not been claimed in the last 40 years or whatever it is that it has been offered. (because when claims like these are put in a controlled environment they always fail)
I want to be amazed as much as anyone else, and as impressive as mental tricks and magic are, once someone starts claiming that they are actually "real" in a way that means that they actually believe they have such powers or abilities, then they require proof of some sort.
Again, I just want to reiterate, I find the real martial arts highly impressive. Not taking anything away from those. [thumb] It is just the mystical stuff I have trouble with.
Here's another video on youtube of a student of Dillman. He tries to knockout a news reporter with a pressure strike and is unsuccessful. He then tries the chi knockouts on some jiujitsu students (who I bet could whoop his arse) and is again unsuccessful.
It is clear that these people believe in what they are doing, but just because they believe doesn't make it real. Plenty of people believe in lots of silly things.
> I can feel the chi flowing myself and I think I'm close to being able to do some of those things.
Live, I agree that we need to see more tests. We do not need for them to be in a "controlled environment controlling for hypnotic suggestion" as you say. What is the purpose of that? If you can take someone off the street and make them fall down or even half the people off the street, you have something real.
As for anything to do with Randi, he is the biggest faker I know of. He has no million dollars and sets up the proof in such a way that it can never be won. I saw one on TV in which a psychic was supposed to guess how many people behind screens and they held up a big fake check supposedly a lot of money she was going to get if right but then they made a fast mumbly announcement that said even if she was totally correct, she would have to do it again under other circumstances before being paid.
ludongbin, it is not always the same. Sometimes it feels like water flowing, sometimes hot, sometimes cold. Sometimes it does not feel like that at all. But I'm not one of those experts either. I think many martial artists are using chi and don't even realize it. I think even the rank beginner uses chi to control his own body and to clumsily control his opponent. The advanced martial artist may think it's all technique the reason his stuff works so well but it is likely the chi working also. The guy who can do it at a distance leaves no doubt about it which is why you deny it so much.
Let me tell a little story about a film I saw when I was a kid. I think a few people will find it interesting. My father made me go to judo class and one day the headmaster showed us a film. It was of an old man in Japan. He gave a talk translated into english. He showed a ball and explained the ball was never off balance. You could push or pull it and it would never fall. He admonished us to be like the ball. He then went on the mat and a big gorilla came out. I thought it wasn't fair because the old guy was skinny and the big guy had arms like my legs and legs like telephone poles with a barrel body. He wasn't just big, he had a black belt with lots of stripes, maybe 5 to 8. He had a look on his face like "I'm about to get a whipping". I wondered what he was so worried about.
The little old guy picked up the gorilla, whirled him around and slammed him to the mat WHAM! They all know how to fall, it's the first thing you learn but when you come down that hard on those skinny tatami mats, you feel it. It was like a cartoon in which the little mouse wipes up the floor with the big cat. He did it again and again and then did it with another gorilla.
What I found interesting, particularly later when I thought it over, was that he never threw the guy on the first move. He did about 3 to 5 throws before succeeding but always succeeded. He had flawless technique, was fast and could sense any weakness or off balance. He would have thrown any ordinary tough guy, including me on the first throw but these guys were extremely good and knew all his tricks. He started a throw and the other guy instantly countered it. The old guy instantly countered the counter and the gorilla countered that which the old man countered. The result was it looked like the old guy started one way, instantly shifted the opposite way and then another way and finally picked him up and threw him. The big guy tried as hard as he could but with each attempt, he got slightly more uprooted until finally he was helpless and then WHAM!
What I realized only recently is that we were being taught principles of chi although it was never called that. The old man picked up the gorilla who was probably 100 lb heavier than him and tossed him around like he was a big bag of feathers. He was doing difficult and advanced throws too. They slowed it down and you could see he was doing stuff like the knee wheel, I forget the japanese name for it, in which he put his foot on the guy's knee and turned him like a wheel slamming him to the ground. I never even learned that one. I also saw him doing the changing hip throw which is also very advanced. In the space of one second he would go through several throws, starting one and going to another.
The big guys looked like they could pick up the little old man with one hand and punch him with the other hand like he was a speed bag but the old guy was a wizard. Don't tell me it was fake, I saw it myself. This was back before photoshop or digital animation. Actors could not have done it. It was truly jaw dropping
> ludongbin, it is not always the same. Sometimes it feels like water flowing, sometimes hot, sometimes cold. Sometimes it does not feel like that at all.
Interesting. Do you feel it all the time or only when you are practicing. What parts of the body do you feel it or feel it the strongest?
> Don't tell me it was fake, I saw it myself. This was back before photoshop or digital animation. Actors could not have done it. It was truly jaw dropping
I'm not saying it was fake. I just don't see why you have to assume it involved any sort of mystical energy. Highly developed physical ability can be very impressive as well.
By the way, now that you have been initiated into the ways of YouTube I thought you might appreciate this old video of some kung fu masters from Taiwan - looks like some northern praying mantis, some hsing-yi, maybe some tsai lee fo (choy lay fut), and then other some other stuff I have no idea about. Anyways, here it is...
Live, I agree that we need to see more tests. We do not need for them to be in a "controlled environment controlling for hypnotic suggestion" as you say. What is the purpose of that?
The purpose is to control for hypnotic suggestion, of course. If the claim is that someone can knock people over from a distance, not being able to hypnotize them should not matter. (unless you are conceding that it really is hypnosis?)
If you can take someone off the street and make them fall down or even half the people off the street, you have something real.
I agree, that is what I said too. These people are not using people off the street, but people who actively seek them out (which already would be suggestible, imo). I think we are in agreement on this.
As for anything to do with Randi, he is the biggest faker I know of. He has no million dollars
He has shown the proof of the million dollars being held. It is being held by an independent banking entity for the purpose of only being paid out to a winner of such a contest.
and sets up the proof in such a way that it can never be won.
Oh, they are very winnable if someone can simply do what they say they can do. Out of the thousands and thousands of attempts, no one can!
I saw one on TV in which a psychic was supposed to guess how many people behind screens and they held up a big fake check supposedly a lot of money she was going to get if right but then they made a fast mumbly announcement that said even if she was totally correct, she would have to do it again under other circumstances before being paid.
They have an initial test for all of them that they make really easy. If the person can do it, then they have a "real" test in a controlled environment. But, guess what? It doesn't matter!! Out of the thousands and thousands of people that have ever tried to win the prize, No one has ever gotten past the "easy" test!! Lol.
There is a lot of amazing stuff out there, but it is all done by trickery or slight of hand or whatever else. No one can, in an environment controlled for trickery, ever do what they claim they can do. I am willing to be amazed, but unfortunately there is no such thing as "real" psychics or mental powers. I wish there were, but no one has ever shown any. :(
Live, you seem to believe every bit of garbage spewed by Randi without a murmur. I don't believe he has a million, what proof did he supposedly offer? He is a highly negative person. I've seen and heard about cases in which he cheated and interferred in the attempts by people to perform things. He radiates negative energy. The thing on tv I spoke of was where he had this big piece of paper supposedly a check he was going to give to a woman if she passed the test but when they went over the rules really fast if you paid attention you noticed they said they would not pay out a dime even if she was correct. The big piece of paper was just a prop. There are people who can put out negative energy just as there are those who can do positive things. Randi might have the ability to perform the things he claims can't be done but his negative mindset prevents that. Instead he sabotages others.
Why are you so convinced that "hypnotism" must be suppressed?
lud, I click on that and it takes me to a u-tube page with lots of stuff on it. It does not make a video start. I'll have to look at Live's link and see what he did that you didn't do to make it work for me.
> lud, I click on that and it takes me to a u-tube page with lots of stuff on it. It does not make a video start. I'll have to look at Live's link and see what he did that you didn't do to make it work for me.
Xanadu,
Something is wrong with your settings because that link works fine for me. Try going to www.youtube.com and searching for "Taiwan 1964" and you should see the links for the videos.
By the way, it is "lu" for short since lu is the Chinese family name. If you are curious, Lu Dong Bin was one of the 8 immortals of Taoist folklore.
Live, you seem to believe every bit of garbage spewed by Randi without a murmur.
Lol, I could reply that you seem to believe every bit of garbage spewed by supposed psychics and people who claim to have supernatural powers without a murmur. I think my position is much more solid. )
I don't believe he has a million, what proof did he supposedly offer?
There is plenty of proof. It is being held by Goldman Sachs in the form of negotiable bonds. It is maintained in a similar way to an endowment fund. It is very real, and there is plenty of proof that it actually exists. Anyone can request information on it, and the annual tax filings and everything are a matter of public record. I assure you it is quite real. http://www.randi.org...ch/faq.html#3.1 to follow up on it any further, but there is plenty of documentation available
He is a highly negative person.
I don't know him personally, so I have no idea. I don't care about him one way or the other, I was just pointing out that if a person has supernatural abilities, then they should be able to prove it.
I've seen and heard about cases in which he cheated and interferred in the attempts by people to perform things.
Like I said, I don't know him personally, but I highly doubt this. Please provide some proof if you have any for such claims. If you have no proof, then I will disregard this
He radiates negative energy.
LOL. I hope you are joking. No one "radiates negative energy".
The thing on tv I spoke of was where he had this big piece of paper supposedly a check he was going to give to a woman if she passed the test but when they went over the rules really fast if you paid attention you noticed they said they would not pay out a dime even if she was correct. The big piece of paper was just a prop. There are people who can put out negative energy just as there are those who can do positive things. Randi might have the ability to perform the things he claims can't be done but his negative mindset prevents that. Instead he sabotages others.
Of course, I addressed this already. No one has even passed the simple first test to get into the actual competition. If they made the actual competition the first one, it would be even more embarrassing for the people. At least the people have a chance this way, and yet surprisingly no one has done it. Oh, and of course the "negative energy" thing is hogwash. Please provide proof of the existence of "negative energy" if you are going to claim such a preposterous thing.
On a side note, I don't know why you think I am trying to defend the guy. I was simply stating that your guy you claimed to have supernatural power didn't really have such powers, and he could claim the money if he really did. (through Randi, or anyone else if you think Randi puts off "negative energy" or whatever hogwash)
Then the claim got watered down to say that only a certain percentage of the population could be affected, then you said it pretty much was just hypnotism because he shouldn't have that controlled for, and on and on. That is how these things are, generally. Someone will make an extraordinary claim. (ex. I can knock people over with my mind!, or I have psychic abilities!, or whatever else). Then when they are disproven, they start making up excuses why it didn't work, and eventually they muddle together another excuse. For heaven's sake, people need to make a claim that is testable either to be true or false, and then offer that up to be tested. Either a claim is true or false. Fine, if you can knock over 50% of the population with your mind, that is a very testable claim. Get 100 random volunteers, bring them in one by one and test the damn claim. Oh, right, if we did that it wouldn't work because the lighting wasn't right, or the earth's energy affected them, or they moved their tongue in their mouth, or.... blah blah blah. There are a million excuses. Just make a claim, let's test to see if it is true or false, and then we will know for sure. Of course, no one can ever prove it.
Why are you so convinced that "hypnotism" must be suppressed?
[?] Ummmm. So that people can't use hypnotic suggestion. I thought that was pretty self evident, haha.
lud, I click on that and it takes me to a u-tube page with lots of stuff on it. It does not make a video start. I'll have to look at Live's link and see what he did that you didn't do to make it work for me.
Even though Live kindly embedded the video into a post, do go to youtube and search for "Taiwan 1964" because there is a sequence of three videos and you would probably enjoy seeing all of them. Some of the kung-fu is very good and the music is nice as well. There is definitely some no. praying mantis, hsing-yi, and long fist (chang chuan) and maybe a little so. white crane as well. I don't know what the rest of the stuff is though. I believe I was mistaken in my earlier claim that there is some tsai lee fo (which would be surprising actually since it is not all that common in Taiwan - more of a Hong Kong style.)
Post a video response Post a text comment Most Recent ... 1 2 3 4 ... Oldest ala1116 (1 day ago) guys guys, where's the love man *********************
Live's embed had a number with it, your's does not. It may be because I'm not a subscriber to u-tube.
Live, you are getting ridiculous, I'm not going to chase down all the red herrings you brought up. Believe what you want. But explain this, why do you keep saying that hypnotism must be stopped? If he can make people fall down, all except for a small few, does calling it "hypnotism" somehow make it go away? Does that make you feel better in some way?
> Live's embed had a number with it, your's does not. It may be because I'm not a subscriber to u-tube.
You don't have to be a member. Just go to www.youtube.com and type "Taiwan 1964" in the search field and click on "search." Three black and white videos (among others) should come up. Just click on the picture to view the associated video.
While you're at it you should search for "human stun gun" (or maybe Live can embed it here.) I posted it before but I'm afraid you couldn't view it. It is a student of Dillon trying his magic on a female news reporter and then some Brazillian jiujitsu students. It is clear that these people believe in what they are doing, but its effectiveness is apparently limited to those who practice it (ergo, don't practice that sort of martial art and you will be impervious to its attacks.)
Also, search for "Kiai Master vs MMA" on youtube. This video would be funny if it weren't so sad. The MMA guy doesn't look that good, but certainly good enough to deal with the situation. I hope that old man didn't get hurt too bad.
If you can't view these videos then perhaps Sensei Live Forever might be kind enough to embed them or even teach us the secret combat arts of youtube video embedding. ;-)
But explain this, why do you keep saying that hypnotism must be stopped? If he can make people fall down, all except for a small few, does calling it "hypnotism" somehow make it go away? Does that make you feel better in some way?
Lol, I am not bringing up hypnotism. I was only repeating what was brought up in the videos and various other places that have shown that hypnotic suggestion can be used to make people react the way they are reacting. I am no great believer in hypnotism, if that is what you are asking. (it is kind of hard to divine your point sometimes) As I stated, if the experiment was set up as you yourself stated, with the random people off the street (however many) then that would be perfectly acceptable to me. I have full confidence that there would not be a statistically significant amount that would be knocked over. (since there has never been proven such a case in the thousands and thousands of attempts that have occurred before in real environments)
Live, you are getting ridiculous, I'm not going to chase down all the red herrings you brought up.
Nope, no red herrings, sorry bro. You did bring up a lot of red herrings, but I chased them all down ) Basically I think you are on the side of mysticism and I am on the side of science. That is fine. If you want to not argue any more, I don't mind. (and in fact understand fully!) I still think that science has a stronger foundation than psychics, mysticism, and supernatural powers, but I will allow you to gracefully bow out at this point if you wish. )
Lu, here is what I'm talking about. Being able to use chi is on a continuum. At the low end, we have a clumsy person, kind of like me after I oversleep in the morning, and at the other end we have the people who can do things at a distance. Not that they are probably the best at it but they can demonstrate in a way that's hard to deny. Look at the old japanese guy I told you about. Lots of people have seen him in action though I imagine he's dead by now. Even my father saw him. You would like to say his abilities are just good technique or something like that. How did he beat those gorilla black belts? He certainly wasn't stronger. If he was, he would have succeeded every time he did a throw because his technique was flawless. The guys he went up against had equally good technique and were stronger. Do you think he knew a throw or something they didn't know? Do you think he knew something that could be said in words that they didn't know? No, that's not it. He wanted his top students to be the best and to carry on his teachings after his death just as he carried on what he learned from his teacher. He taught them all he knew. Was it because he was faster than them? He was old, they were relatively young. No, the difference between him and the guys he tossed around was his ability to control chi. You can deny it when we talk about average people but those at the top defy explanation.
Live, quit dodging and tell me why we are supposed to control for hypnotism in the demonstration? If you went there and got dropped on your ass, are you going to say it was hypnotism? Would that make you feel better?
Live, quit dodging and tell me why we are supposed to control for hypnotism in the demonstration?
I am not dodging. I said it very plainly. Perhaps you are having trouble comprehending? Here it is as plain as I know how to say it (if you still don't understand then I can't help you any further):
There is a need to control for hypnotic suggestion (not straight out hypnotism per se, mind you, you are mincing words on this point) so that the supposed practitioner of the supernatural powers can not use this to his or her advantage. In other words, if the individual is claiming something, there needs to be a scientific test controlling for all extraneous variables, just as all scientific tests are done. If you do not control for variables (hypnotic suggestion being only one that you have for some reason fixated on, but indeed ALL variables must be controlled for) then it is not immediately apparent that the individual does indeed have such supernatural powers. I simply do not know how to state it any plainer than this: If you want to say that anything happens because of supernatural powers, you have to isolate just that to prove it is that and nothing else.
If you went there and got dropped on your ass, are you going to say it was hypnotism?
Of course not, and I do not believe I would get dropped on my ass. (from the no touch knockout; of course if he actually hit me I would be) As I have stated numerous times, the random person off the street wouldn't get knocked out, much in the same way that in the video linked to by ludongbin (which I am assuming you didn't watch since you are unable to view YouTube videos, but I will link to here):
The reporter and practitioners of other martial arts are immune to being knocked out. It is ONLY the people that actively come to the place wanting to be knocked out, or expecting to be knocked out (the hypnotic suggestion I was mentioning) that are knocked out. If you think you will be, then you will be, but if you either 1) don't think you will, or 2) have no opinion one way or the other, then you won't be knocked out. It has, in my opinion, nothing to do with mystical powers of any kind, but a belief that such a thing will happen, so subconsciously making such a thing happen.
As always, I am open to proof of any kind, but you have not shown any of the 2 I mentioned, so I remain unconvinced. (the two, of course, being 1. showing through sensor readings that there is any kind of "energy" whatsoever present, which has never been shown through various scans, or 2. that in a true scientific test that there is any statistically significant proportion of the population that succumb to such a supernatural power) It would, in theory, be very easy to convince me and any other skeptic of psychic or supernatural powers of their existence, but no proof has yet been offered.
[There is a need to control for hypnotic suggestion (not straight out hypnotism per se, mind you, you are mincing words on this point) so that the supposed practitioner of the supernatural powers can not use this to his or her advantage.
Here is where you will not admit your biases. It's you who are mincing words. Are you telling us hypnotism is a supernatural power and if so, what does it do? And how can you eliminate this hypnotism you are so afraid of without biasing the experiment? How about if I say I want to eliminate hypnotism in the subjects so I make up rules they have to follow? Whose rules do we follow and why? <-- answer that, wise guy.
I went to your hero Randi's website and it's full of smoke and mirrors just like he is. There is no proof there that he has any million or close to it. He says if you write to him by snail mail, he will mail you back something. Whoopie! and his excuse for not posting it or doing it by email? Who knows, he doesn't say. He also says the experiment will be by "mutually agreed upon rules" but when asked what that means, it turns out that you do it his way or take the highway. It figures you would be convinced by a con job like that.
Here is your link that works for me down below. I left off the last parenthesis so it would not be just a link. The other link did not have that number in it, 425,325 in this case. When I click the other link I get the same screen but an empty space instead of the video running. Probably if I knew what to click I could make it run.
This guy could only do about 40% and you crow that this disproves the whole concept somehow. You are quick to claim victory, maybe you can get a job with Bush? He needs people like that in Iraq. You could say if they only kill 40% of our people, then we have won.
Here is where you will not admit your biases. It's you who are mincing words.
No, quite the opposite, as I have stated.
Are you telling us hypnotism is a supernatural power and if so, what does it do?
No, it is most definitely not a supernatural power of any kind! (I thought I made it abundantly clear that I do not believe in supernatural powers of any sort.) If you wish to know more about hypnotic suggestion and mental manipulation, there are a wide variety of sources out there on the subject. I can point you in the right direction if you would like, but I suspect you can find such resources on your own (as they are quite abundant).
And how can you eliminate this hypnotism you are so afraid of without biasing the experiment?
Aaah, very simply! All you do is have someone walk in, try to be knocked over (through the distance knockout) and walk out. Of course, there could be additional means, such as sheets put up since most of these gurus claim that they can do it through sheets as well, which would ensure an additional level of accountability, but not even that would be required in the strictest sense.
The thing that is the problem is having people coming in expecting to be knocked over, or having people coached to believe that they will be knocked over (the mental suggestion I mentioned, that you continue to call "hypnotism" as if it is something mystical when I am trying my very best not to do so). Basically any sort of thing that would come from the person spending time with the individuals beforehand and putting thoughts in their head. Have you never been to see a mentalist or hypnotist on stage before? They can make people think they are doing a wide variety of things, but readily admit it has nothing to do with supernatural phenomenon of any sort. I saw Derren Brown do the exact same thing as these people who knock people over at a distance, but afterwards said it was all through mental suggestion, and that he had no power whatsoever. There is a very natural explanation for all this stuff is all I am saying, and saying it is supernatural is a very big leap that requires some sort of proof. (which you and others have repeatedly failed to display)
How about if I say I want to eliminate hypnotism in the subjects so I make up rules they have to follow? Whose rules do we follow and why? <-- answer that, wise guy.
I will answer, but I would ask that you do not call me "wise guy" in a derogatory manner. I have not resorted to calling you names and I would request that you do the same.
The method I outlined above would satisfy me and anyone else that is a skeptic. I have stated that one of two pieces of proof would be required, and although attempts have been made in the past, there have not been shown either of these 2 things. For showing that people can be knocked down in a statistically significant amount of the time, if the mystic or guru were to be in a room (optimally behind a sheet so that he cannot be seen by those entering the room, although this requirement is debatable), and have a random group of 100 or 200 or however many people you like walk in one by one. The mystic/guru tries to knock the person down with their "energy ball", and then either the person is or isn't knocked down, and they move on to the next person. I would venture to bet that 0% of people (randomly chosen people! not people actively coming to be knocked down like in these other demonstrations) would be knocked down given such circumstances. Indeed, in every instance anything approaching this has been tried, the results are as I state.
I went to your hero Randi's website
I mention him once in passing reference to proof that the guru could attain and now he is my hero? You have a very loose definition of the word hero, my friend. I will state for the record, he is not my hero, and I know very little about him. I was only referencing the challenge. If you would rather people prove themselves scientifically and not go through Randi, that is perfectly fine. I was only making a point about how many attempts had failed.
and it's full of smoke and mirrors just like he is. There is no proof there that he has any million or close to it.
It is stated by Goldman Sachs that it does exist. (as well as filed tax returns) If you do not believe them, that is your business, as I have not had any personal dealings with Goldman Sachs in my life. (perhaps because I am not rich enough to require their services?) They do have a good reputation, however, so if you have a qualm, I would implore you to take it up with them.
He says if you write to him by snail mail, he will mail you back something. Whoopie! and his excuse for not posting it or doing it by email? Who knows, he doesn't say. He also says the experiment will be by "mutually agreed upon rules" but when asked what that means, it turns out that you do it his way or take the highway. It figures you would be convinced by a con job like that.
I have no idea about the rules or anything like that. As I have stated several times now, I was only mentioning it in passing. Obviously, since there have been so many thousands of attempts at it, people do find a way to contact the foundation in relation to the prize. I don't have any particular insight into this, and I do not know why you are so obsessed with this contest. Any type of scientific proof would suit me, I could care less one way or the other about this particular foundation. If you would like to contact them, feel free, but I do not see the relevance to this conversation other than that of a diversion tactic.
Here is your link that works for me down below. I left off the last parenthesis so it would not be just a link. The other link did not have that number in it, 425,325 in this case. When I click the other link I get the same screen but an empty space instead of the video running. Probably if I knew what to click I could make it run.
Hmm. I don't know. Everyone else I have ever talked to has been able to view YouTube videos. You are quite literally the first person I have ever met that has had such problems. I suspect it is because you either 1) do not have Flash properly installed or 2) you have javascript disabled globally or for YouTube specifically. However, not having physical access to your computer I can not venture a guess. I would suggest going to the help page at YouTube: http://www.google.com/support/youtube/
Here is the direct link to the video if you get your issue fixed:
This guy could only do about 40% and you crow that this disproves the whole concept somehow.
Aaah, yes, but here is where the misconception occurs on your part. The 40% are among the people who think it is real, or come to the demonstration expecting to be knocked out. Among those who do not believe it possible, it is, quite likely, almost 0%. That is the entire point of having the proof to show people such as myself and other skeptics of supernatural abilities, so that we are convinced that these types of things are actually possible.
You are quick to claim victory, maybe you can get a job with Bush? He needs people like that in Iraq. You could say if they only kill 40% of our people, then we have won.
Well, 1) YOU are the one claiming the 40%, not I, so this scenario would seem perfectly suited for you! (as you outlined it anyway) I would be much more satisfied with a claim of 100% reliability in terms of success in these supernatural abilities, but you are the one that said that would be ludicrous to expect, so please do not place your expectations on me and then say they are what I asked for. 2) it is quite an abstraction, please quit using red herrings and distractions to get away from the central point
the demonstrations of "chi power" that you see from martial artists are either tricks. . .
While training in aikido, we were taught to "disappear". I was very perplexed, because it seemed to work. And it wasn't magical training, just move in a relaxed circular way. I had no explanation, but just recently I found an article in the Scientific American about vision. Seeing is not like a video camera, capturing everything. Vision is intermittent, with the gaps interpolated by the brain. I was very pleased to finally have an explanation why. My teacher never said "why", he just said "do this". He didn't believe in mystical explanation.
ps-this is not disappearing like in the movies, this is just escaping/distracting someone's attention for a fraction of a second.
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