69 replies to this topic

[Johan]

I have a problem. Before last month, I was happy with my weight (140-145 lb) but now it has dropped to 132 lb, which is a little on the low side (not to mention my mother will go crazy if she hears this). I feel somewhat weaker than before, so I would like to gain a few pounds (preferably muscle). What kinds of exercises serve to gain muscle mass quickly? I am 5'9" tall and my body mass index is currently 19.2.
I am currently doing 15 mins of high-intensity interval bike training each morning (except on weekends) when I wake up, and weight training 3 times/week.
Currently my daily calorie intake is somewhere in the 1800-2000 range (lots of whole-grain foods with low sugar and fat content for breakfast and supper as welll as various vitamins and other supplements (see my regimen thread in the Supplements -> Personal Regimens forum), and "normal" dinner which my mother cooks (reasonably healthy food), as well as some fruit in between), and so far, I have been able to keep my weight stable, but as I said, it's starting to drop.

Edited by namingway, 04 August 2007 - 06:33 AM.

[health_nutty]

Check out hypertrophy specific training
or any other method based on compound movements that focuses on increasing the weight in some organized way.

To gain the most muscle focus on the lifts that exercise the most muscle (in priority order):
1) Squats or leg press
2) Deadlifts
3) Bench or dips
4) Military press
5) Weighted chinups, pulldowns, or rows

Also focus on eating a bit more (should be easy if you are training hard). Try to get more protein and healthy calorie dense food as well: olive oil, peanut butter, avocados, etc.

[Shepard]

This, like most things in life, can be solved by moving heavy things.

The above list is a good list of exercises, but I would swap the priority to 2, 1, 5, 3, 4.

[Athanasios]

You wont gain weight without the calories!

[Ghostrider]

Main question to ask is why would you want to gain weight? It sounds like you have a healthy lifestyle, there is no need to gain weight. Since you refer to your mom, I am guessing that you are still in high school. When I was a sophomore in high school, I weighted about 105 lbs, 5'5". Now I am 5'7" at around 125. My weight bothered me in high school, now I am perfectly happy with it. Make health your first priority. Are you drinking enough water?

[luv2increase]

I hope you two (namingway & ghostrider) are woman. You two are women correct?

[Johan]

I hope you two (namingway & ghostrider) are woman.  You two are women correct?

Actually, I am male.

To gain the most muscle focus on the lifts that exercise the most muscle (in priority order):
1) Squats or leg press
2) Deadlifts
3) Bench or dips
4) Military press
5) Weighted chinups, pulldowns, or rows

I do some of these during my weight training already, but I would be happy to do the rest as well.

You wont gain weight without the calories!

So, "eat more" simply? I am currently trying to do somewhat of a CR diet, but I fear that's not going to work (at least not as much) if I keep losing weight.

[Matt]

I wish my BMI was 19.2 on that calorie intake :( Imagine being 16.4 !

[Johan]

I am guessing that you are still in high school.

As you say, I am still in gymnasium (Swedish equivalent to high school) (I am 18 years old, 19 in a week). So the main problem I guess is to convince my mother that I don't need to gain weight, because I feel perfectly happy with the way I am now, as long as I can work my strength up with exercise.

Does someone have any good links to research/articles that prove the benefits of caloric restriction, so that I can show her?

[ajnast4r]

i would say that caloric restriction while still in puberty is a HORRIBLE idea, and you need to be eating [healthy] as much as you possible can

[Athanasios]

So, "eat more" simply? I am currently trying to do somewhat of a CR diet, but I fear that's not going to work (at least not as much) if I keep losing weight.

Yeah, if you want to gain weight, you must eat more. Whether it is muscle or fat, it takes a substantial amount of calorie excess to gain meaningful weight. If you are working out consistently, it will be muscle.

[JonesGuy]

The most important thing is to not increase your calories unless you're massively increasing your weight-lifting routine. You don't want to be packing very much into your fat cells.

HST is pretty good, but I found that I got a bit weaker on it. You want to be doing a decent number of sets of each exercise in order to build both muscle density and (as well) supplementary densities (like capillaries, etc.)

You want to get most of your calories from low-GI fruits and vegetables. Lean meats are a good idea too. But you really need to increase exercise a lot if you want to eat more to gain weight.

[Athanasios]

Look at his current weight. If he does squats or deadlift plus any other thing, it will be muscle added. He won't need much intensity at all.

[Johan]

Seems I'm a little too eager, then. When is a good age to start doing CR?

[luv2increase]

Seems I'm a little too eager, then. When is a good age to start doing CR?

I believe the studies are started when the monkeys were already in the human equivalent of middle age. I am not sure though. One thing may be a sure bet. By starving yourself at your age is not a good thing. Especially while being in gymnastics. You will only get scrawnier IMO. You need to forget about the CR and just eat "right" and "heartily".

[Johan]

Well, this is basically what I've eaten all my life, except the last few months during which I've removed the snacks, buns, cookies, etc. from my diet (I did eat quite many of those before), as well as replaced regular bread and cereals with whole-grain, unsweetened ones.

Edited by namingway, 12 April 2007 - 11:14 PM.

[luv2increase]

I suggest eating more protein in the form of lean meats. Eat lots of chicken, lean beef, turkey, and tuna.

I am a big advocate of the Max-OT training program. I've used it to much avail in the past.

http://www.discussbo...ne/m_390/tm.htm

There will be a link in the first post to a PDF file. There is 165 pages in the PDF file describing in detail the whole program. It is very good. I can vouch for it.

Have a fun read!

[jdog]

I can also vouch for the Max-OT program. I started lifting for about 12 years ago. I found that program online about 6 or 7 years ago and used it almost religiously for a couple years straight.

I saw some great gains from it. Since then I've strayed some from his program in order to tailor a plan that specifically meets my unique bodybuilding needs, but i still follow some of his core weight training philosophies, i.e. heavy weight with low reps, fast and efficient workout sessions to maximize my efficiency, and some others.

Now, about your weight. You need to eat, eat, eat. You're young, you're body is full of testosterone, and you should be able to put on mass easily, that is, unless you have some sort of biological issue. 120lbs, in my opinion is way to low of a weight at 5'8", despite your age. One last opinion which chimes in with an above poster: forget about CR until you're older. It's a noble and impressive thing to have integrated into your life at such a young age, but right now you need to make the most out of the few years you have left that you are growing. You will pretty much stop at around 25 years. So, eat, lift, rest, and forget about CR or eating a pristinely clean diet, until after your mid 20s.

[Shepard]

If it were me, I'd drop the morning interval bike training for now and concentrate on a solid heavy weight program and eating. I wouldn't worry with any specific type of program unless you fail to make any gains, and that's not really a possibility unless you aren't eating enough.

[Ghostrider]

I hope you two (namingway & ghostrider) are woman.  You two are women correct?

Nope, definitely male. Although yes, I do weigh less than a lot of women, but not intentionally, I eat whatever I want, although I try to eat healthy -- staying away from fast food, avoiding sugar and caffeine except when needed. I also don't consume alcohol.

[luv2increase]

That's cool. If I offended you, I apologize.

[Johan]

No offense taken
I don't consume any alcohol either (and have never done, except for tasting a bit of beer & wine on a few occasions, but I have never been drunk), partially because of health, but also because I don't like that blurry, dizzy feeling I get from drinking it, and I don't like the taste (especially not beer).

@shepard:
I'm hesitant to quit morning bike training. Compared to a few weeks ago, I can feel a lot of change in muscle composition in my legs. It also really serves nice to wake me up in the morning. It only takes 15 or so minutes, so it's no big deal time-wise.

Question: Would taking resveratrol be bad at my age too, since it mimics the effects of CR?

Edited by namingway, 13 April 2007 - 11:14 AM.

[Shepard]

It's up to you, but I would bet big money on you gaining weight easier without it. I would also bet money on you becoming overtrained in the near future with five sessions of HIIT a week, three trips to the gym, etc. unless you up your calories significantly.

I would not take significant amounts of resveratrol at your age due to potential aromatase inhibition.

[jdog]

I admittingly know nearly nothing about CR, other than it is probably one of the (if not the) most effective means to increase lifespan.

Clicking on a few links here and there, I must say, I was kind of shocked when I read over some lab results of some individuals who are on CR diets.

Upon seeing the heights and associated weights of many of these individuals, images of stick figures literally popped into my mind.

I won't argue with the potential increase in lifespan that CR may offer, but I would argue against the involved opportunity costs associated with having a frail, wraith-like appearance, which I assume go hand in hand with a CR diet.

This may sound offensive, and if it is, I'm sorry, but I would be willing to bet some good money on a direct correlation between 'getting laid,' and one's body weight. However, if afer all is said and done, and the cost/benefit ratio is acceptable to those on a CR diet, then more power to ya.

Last thought. If CR truly is a means to increase lifespan, don't you want to be happy and satisfied with the life you have while you're alive, or is living longer by virtue, overshadow any of its possible negative ramifications?

[Matt]

Seems I'm a little too eager, then. When is a good age to start doing CR?

Some people say mid 20's for safety and for maximum benefit. Some believe earlier the better... I would personally sacrifice height for a longer life, but thats just me. I started when I was 20 years old. I reckon anytime over 20 is fine and there is no evidence it stops the changes in the brain throughout your 20's (not yet anyway). The monkey experiments started at all different ages. The onces at wisconsin were equivalent to around 30 human years.

Those saying "eat all you can" is bad advice in my opinion. I would at your age try and maintain a low BMI of around 20. Its within normal limits and isn't that bad at all. Just before I started calorie restriction I was just about to go for the muscular look, doing weights, lots of protein shakes and trying to get huge. Although it has always seemed impossible for me to gain much muscle. After that I read some articles and Calorie Restriction was the only known way to extend maximum lifespan so its what I chose.

Right now, just eat healthy and go for weight maintenance. Adding muscle won't do no harm though, but consistent excess calories is bad IMO. But no one else can tell you if you are still growing, only you can. I know my height wasn't going anywhere after I reached around 17. Although I maintained a low BMI of 18.5 for many years before CR.

[Matt]

If CR truly is a means to increase lifespan, don't you want to be happy and satisfied with the life you have while you're alive, or is living longer by virtue, overshadow any of its possible negative ramifications?

I would be suprised if a bunch of depressed and not caring about life people do CR. CRONies generally love life, hence why they do CR!

CR for some people is about reaching a time when biomedical science has a good handle on the aging process. We have some futurists and people like aubrey that say it can be done soon, but none of us REALLY know when its going to happen. CR will give the BEST possible chance of reaching this time, supplements and just eating well wont, as much.

Question: Would taking resveratrol be bad at my age too, since it mimics the effects of CR?

There is not enough good evidence yet to say it does exactly the same as CR.

[Johan]

three trips to the gym

For clarification, I currently do my weight training at home, with dumbbells (which is the only thing I have access to, currently). I've only got about $150 to spend each month (study grant), $40 of which I use to pay my internet, and a gym card costs $45/month, so that's nearly half my monthly money right there. That alone would be acceptable, but then if I am to do Max-OT training the supplements would cost... well, I don't know how much, but almost certainly more than I have.
So as much as I would like to do Max-OT training, I can't afford it.

Also, I had miscalculated my weight (wrong conversion rate from kg to lbs). It's 132 lbs (60 kg), not 120 (which would be 54 kg).

[jdog]

Supps aren't necessary to do the Max-OT. Sure they help facilitate putting on muscle, but providing you eat well, you'll be fine. I haven't looked at the Max-OT program for at least a couple years, so they may have made some changes, so if it sounds like it requires you to buy supps, just gloss over that part.

[biologic]

My advice: Peanuts.

1) They are natural -- you won't find out in ten years that they cause mesothelioma.
2) High protein and fat -- add good body mass.
3) They are delicious

Eat them after you do your exercises if at all possible.

[Athanasios]

consistent excess calories is bad IMO.

They won't be in excess. It will be made into muscle. If too much weight is gained, back off a bit, keep up the workout.

It is one or the other. CR and low weight, or not CR and a higher weight.