69 replies to this topic

[luv2increase]

The thing about adding supps are for AST sports science. They are the "inventors" of the program Max-OT. It is ironic that a sports supplement company actually devised a workout program. You don't need to buy their supps in particular, but the basics such as multi-vitamin, extra cal and mag, creatine (personal choice), fish oil (personal choice), and whey protein (right after workout) is advisable.

$45 a month. That is a lot of money for a gym membership. I would look elsewhere, but you most definitely need to get a gym membership if you intend on putting on mass. Using dumbells and home, sorry to say, won't suffice your goals in the least.

[Shepard]

I would look elsewhere, but you most definitely need to get a gym membership if you intend on putting on mass.  Using dumbells and home, sorry to say, won't suffice your goals in the least.

This is definitely not true. Resistance is resistance. You just have to use your imagination a little more without a gym.

[Ghostrider]

No offense taken
I don't consume any alcohol either (and have never done, except for tasting a bit of beer & wine on a few occasions, but I have never been drunk), partially because of health, but also because I don't like that blurry, dizzy feeling I get from drinking it, and I don't like the taste (especially not beer).

Yeah, beer tastes horrible to me. I cannot understand why people drink the stuff. I think people would drink rotting yard debris if it had the same effect. Sometimes I like the buzzed effect, makes me more social I suppose. But too much is no good. And no matter how little I drink, I am never back to 100% the next day.

[luv2increase]

I would look elsewhere, but you most definitely need to get a gym membership if you intend on putting on mass.  Using dumbells and home, sorry to say, won't suffice your goals in the least.

This is definitely not true. Resistance is resistance. You just have to use your imagination a little more without a gym.

You obviously don't have any experience or knowledge in the field of exercising.

If what you say is true, then a person can train for a marathon by running only 3 miles a day "at the most". If you can understand the logic within that statement, you will see. If you can't, which I suspect will be the case, go read up on "resistance training".

Some people I tell you. Ignorance is bliss.

[Karomesis]

Namingway, check it out

http://www.beastskil...m/tutorials.htm

If you work out from home I'd start with these as they will add substantial amounts of strength and mass if done continually.

I can give about a bazillion more BW exercises if you want. I would also start with some nice whey and egg shakes, add flax oil peanut butter (natural)and blueberries or banana and you have quite the mass building shake. drink it about 1 hour pre workout and for good measure drink another one right after.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....&indexed=google

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=16679981

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=15570142

[Shepard]

You obviously don't have any experience or knowledge in the field of exercising. 

If what you say is true, then a person can train for a marathon by running only 3 miles a day "at the most".  If you can understand the logic within that statement, you will see.  If you can't, which I suspect will be the case, go read up on "resistance training".

Some people I tell you.  Ignorance is bliss.

What you say there, boy? Bodybuilding.com? Chicken and brocolli? Fish and rice? Yeah, gotta eat clean move that iron. Only way to get strong. Uh huh.

Please, oh please, explain to me how your body knows what it is moving. Because, we all know that 170 you're doing on the pulldown is the only way to build them lats. Wait, you weigh 170? Well, why not do a pullup? It's harder than the pulldown? Say it isn't so.

I am, of course, mocking you throughout this post and question both your sobriety and overall cognitive function.

Edit: I can't even rant correctly.

Edited by shepard, 16 April 2007 - 11:42 PM.

[mitkat]

I would look elsewhere, but you most definitely need to get a gym membership if you intend on putting on mass.  Using dumbells and home, sorry to say, won't suffice your goals in the least.

This is definitely not true. Resistance is resistance. You just have to use your imagination a little more without a gym.

You obviously don't have any experience or knowledge in the field of exercising.

[lol]

[Karomesis]

can't we all just get along? [tung]

if we're gonna live forever, bickering about fitness regimens is probably not a good start.

let me make it simple.....if you have something to say, do what I do, post the referenced studies. [thumb]

either that, or be prepared to back up whatever you're saying with your own privately funded study [lol]

[Karomesis]

repost. (sorry) [alien]

[luv2increase]

can't we all just get along? [tung]

if we're gonna live forever, bickering about fitness regimens is probably not a good start.

let me make it simple.....if you have something to say, do what I do, post the referenced studies. [thumb]

either that, or be prepared to back up whatever you're saying with your own privately funded study [lol]

I had thought it was common knowledge that one can not get big whilst utilizing the maximum resistance of one's own bodyweight. They are going to get huge by doing 50 pull-ups. No, you need a belt to add weight to, to keep the repetitions low. You don't get big and strong pecs by doing 100 push-ups. That is known, if anything, as endurance training. If you want to gain size, heavy weight ---> low repetitions.

I shouldn't have gotten upset. It is hard for me at times to realize that people like shepard don't know much about this sort of stuff.

Sometimes I take common knowledge for granted.

If anyone wants to know anything about physical fitness, shoot me a PM. I will be more than happy to assist you in your endeavors towards a healthy, lean, and mean physique.


edit: unless you have an olympic weight bench, squat rack, decline bench, incline bench, military press bench, leg press machine (weight-loaded), 45 lb straight bar, 25lb curl bar, and atleast 400lb worth of plated weights, and dumbells that go up to at least 120lbs, I'd get a gym membership. Of course, you would still be lacking a machine to do cable tricep pushdowns, cable curls, shoulder exercise machines, etc etc etc..... The point being, one should most definitely get a gym membership. They will also have access to treadmills, elyptical machines, and a whole host of other goodies. It is logical to get a membership and get real by not living in lala land expecting to get larger with 15lb dumbells and a dinky weight bench with only enough weights to put 135lb on the bar. Give me a break.

[Johan]

expecting to get larger with 15lb dumbells and a dinky weight bench with only enough weights to put 135lb on the bar

I am not; I fully realize that a gym membership would greatly help me in this matter. It's just that it's a tad expensive at $45/month. I'll check out our other gym in town, perhaps they have lower prices. Oh, and my school also has a "private" gym that students can use for free, if they want. Not sure about the size, though.

[Matt]

I reckon you should start off with home training, build up slowly and condition yourself for heavier weights at the gym. Starting off at quite a low weight you will gain muscle from doing some exercising, including using free weights at home.

Starting off too fast onto the big weights in the gym is not a good idea and can stall your progress significantly if there is any slight injury.

[Shepard]

I had thought it was common knowledge that one can not get big whilst utilizing the maximum resistance of one's own bodyweight.  They are going to get huge by doing 50 pull-ups.  No, you need a belt to add weight to, to keep the repetitions low.  You don't get big and strong pecs by doing 100 push-ups.  That is known, if anything, as endurance training.  If you want to gain size, heavy weight ---> low repetitions. 

Who said anything about doing 100 push-ups? You have entirely the wrong idea about bodyweight exercises. If a person only views them as standard push-ups, squats, etc. then yeah, they aren't going to put on tremendous amounts of size. But, that is not what the majority of people who do "bodyweight" exercises do. Hence my "get creative" part. Although, I highly doubt the original poster has any desire to be Dave Tate. Even after his fat loss.

Anyway, if you want to start another thread regarding gym vs. non-gym fitness, I'll gladly participate.

It is hard for me at times to realize that people like shepard don't know much about this sort of stuff.

What's a dumbbell, again? I really should read that Weight Training for Dummies book on my shelf.

[health_nutty]

edit:  unless you have an olympic weight bench, squat rack, decline bench, incline bench, military press bench, leg press machine (weight-loaded), 45 lb straight bar, 25lb curl bar, and atleast 400lb worth of plated weights, and dumbells that go up to at least 120lbs, I'd get a gym membership.  Of course, you would still be lacking a machine to do cable tricep pushdowns, cable curls, shoulder exercise machines, etc etc etc.....  The point being, one should most definitely get a gym membership.  They will also have access to treadmills, elyptical machines, and a whole host of other goodies.  It is logical to get a membership and get real by not living in lala land expecting to get larger with 15lb dumbells and a dinky weight bench with only enough weights to put 135lb on the bar.  Give me a break.

I substituted all the benches with an adjustable bench. Instead of a squat rack I bought a power rack. Leg press machine? squats and deads work my legs good enough. 2 300lb olympic weight sets.. check. Curl bar: oh no I don't have one Adjustable olympic dumbell... check. Plus my power rack has a chinup bar and I bought a hip belt to add weight. Oh no, no cable tricep pushdowns, etc. I did buy a pretty nice treadmill ($3000 one new I picked up hardly used for $800). However, I usually just run outside (or play ultimate).

Even my home gym doesn't meet your criteria :(

[luv2increase]

edit:  unless you have an olympic weight bench, squat rack, decline bench, incline bench, military press bench, leg press machine (weight-loaded), 45 lb straight bar, 25lb curl bar, and atleast 400lb worth of plated weights, and dumbells that go up to at least 120lbs, I'd get a gym membership.  Of course, you would still be lacking a machine to do cable tricep pushdowns, cable curls, shoulder exercise machines, etc etc etc.....  The point being, one should most definitely get a gym membership.  They will also have access to treadmills, elyptical machines, and a whole host of other goodies.  It is logical to get a membership and get real by not living in lala land expecting to get larger with 15lb dumbells and a dinky weight bench with only enough weights to put 135lb on the bar.  Give me a break.

I substituted all the benches with an adjustable bench. Instead of a squat rack I bought a power rack. Leg press machine? squats and deads work my legs good enough. 2 300lb olympic weight sets.. check. Curl bar: oh no I don't have one Adjustable olympic dumbell... check. Plus my power rack has a chinup bar and I bought a hip belt to add weight. Oh no, no cable tricep pushdowns, etc. I did buy a pretty nice treadmill ($3000 one new I picked up hardly used for $800). However, I usually just run outside (or play ultimate).

Even my home gym doesn't meet your criteria :(

Then I suggest getting a gym membership.

[luv2increase]

This is a Giant opportunity to drink big amounts of omega-3 fatty acids

You know omega-3 fatty acids benefit nerve tissue The thing is that isotope studies of lipid replament suggest much perhaps half of all brain lipids rotate every two yearsish  Other areas of the body have lipid rotations measured as hundreds of hours.  If you gain 10 lbs of pure omega-3 body fat the benefit will everntually reach your brain providing neuroprotection as well as mood support

Giant opportunity to guzzle splenda plus omega-3 fatty acid drinks that taste like milkshakes

I am having a hard time understanding what in the world you are saying.

[Shepard]

Yeah, if I'm reading that correctly, that really doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

[Shepard]

Um, why not keep a respectable w-3 intake via healthy diet?

[health_nutty]

Wow, this is a very low quality thread.

[Shepard]

I suppose if you wanted to deal with the immune suppression, oxidation issues, and the fact that the w-3 intake will be fighting against your desire to get fat...then it might be an idea to ponder. Not sure why you'd want to add to your fat stores, though.

[tothepoint]

Try to snack on lots of nuts and berries instead of garbage snacks. Also do what (I think it was shepard) said: squats, deadlifts, bench presses, and rows are great for adding mass. I suspect he read Starting Strength or looked at Rippetoes program.

I need a bit of help guys---
I'm looking for a healthy weight gainer powder and I've narrowed it down to two:
http://www.bodybuild.../univ/real.html
http://www.bodybuild.../cs/gainer.html

I actually bought the Real Gains and it helped add a bit of weight so far, but nothing very noticable. I take 3 scoops after workouts 3 times a week and 1 scoop usually with breakfast the other 4 days. I bought this because it had added "inulin" and flaxseed oil. I've seen other people on this forum talk about those before.

Cytogainer has creatine in it and slightly less sugar, and many people on the Bodybuilding.com forum have had success with it. Is it bad to take the Cytogainer everyday as a snack because it has creatine in it?

[davie1a]

I have been a bodybuilder for more than 15 years so I hope my experience can help you.

If you want to put on muscle and not fat then forget about weight gain powders. They are full of mainly simple carbs and whey that will only make you fat, maltodextrin although considered a complex carb is still too simple for gaining quality weight. The insulin spike from these powders too will lead to fat storage. There best thing for gaining a good body is real food and good supplements that work like quality protein powders, BCAA's etc and not hyped up junk.

To put on muscle weight you need lots of protein and some good carbs and fats(in moderation).

Mainly its about protein, diet and training in the beginning.

If you already carry a bit of fat around the waist then you need to diet first before you can build some muscle or any excess calories in your diet may lead to more fat gain.

When you carry more than a lean body fat percentage your body is pre-disposed to store extra calories as fat and not muscle.

When you are lean you will more easily build more lean mass.

Increase your calories mainly by eating more lean meats and make sure your diet is healthy with lots of fruits and vegetables too.

The best training in my opinion for gaining muscle size and strength is HIT. Most size comes with increased strength, but only if your level of protein intake is high enough and diet is of good quality.

And don't forget adequate sleep.

I hope that helps.

[tothepoint]

What do you think about whey protein powders taken after workouts, davie? I've tried this very popular whey protein powder before I started working out seriously and it tastes great! http://www.bodybuild...e/opt/whey.html

I bought the weight gainer powder because I find it difficult and time consuming to eat extra meals. I tend to chew my food thoroughly and spend a lot of time eating, so I figured a weight gainer that can fulfiill my protein needs would be ideal for my situation.

600 calories is not bad (from the Real Gains), but it comes with 5grams sugar and 3grams of saturated fat. Should I just stick to eating an extra PB&J sandwich during the day?

Edit/// Also, I don't mind if I gain a little bit of fat along with another 20 pounds of weight. I think I would rather bulk up now and then do some high intensity interval training to shed some fat. I asked people about adding 2 days of HIIT to the 3-day-a-week program I'm doing now, but one guy said it's almost impossible to do HIIT and then squat heavy the next day. Right now I think my bodyfat is about 9-11% and I'm 150 pounds, 5'11"

[davie1a]

Weight gain powders are only useful for people who have a really hard time gaining any weight including fat weight, people with overactive thyroids, Or for some people who are on very dangerous steroid combinations for competition gaining but even then its only in moderation and real food is the most important. You will never see a top level bodybuilder consuming lots of supplements, although they market a lot of them.

For a normal person they are pretty useless. Real food is always the best. However a good protein powder with a mix of egg/casein/ and whey is great instead of meat as a meal replacement but you would need to eat it either with some healthy fats or some healthy complex carbs like brown rice or sweet potatoes and a few other good carb choices to keep ur calories up and help minimize excess insulin production.

When you are trying to gain you really need to keep control of ur insulin levels or you will gain too much fat. And when you want to loose the extra fat gained you will loose all the hard earned muscle with it if you start to try and take the fat off quickly and without letting the new muscle sit for at least a few months. So you want to minimize any fat gain when gaining muscle.

Whey protein is great after a workout mixed with 40 - 80g of glucose or a 50/50 glucose / maltodextrin mix. Also throwing in some BCAA's into the mix will also help.

If you do a routine you need to do 1 not 2. Do HIT but nothing else.

If you start to try and gain weight with higher body fat levels you will gain mainly fat and not muscle. You really need to get it tested with calipers that way you will know for sure what it is.

You should be around 8 - 10% body fat when trying to gain muscle weight.

[Shepard]

You will never see a top level bodybuilder consuming lots of supplements, although they market a lot of them.

And the glaring truth to putting on muscle: Test+hCG+HGH+Insulin+23 others > whey.

[sentinel]

Messy thread.

I've been big, cut (rarely at the same time!) and am currently in a pretty good combination of the 2. I have trained with weights and studied nutrition and supplementation for c22 years but that doesn't make me an expert anymore than anyone else here, I've just had more time to try different things:

Main Point:

You are happy with your weight/appearance at 132 or whatever. Tell your mother that your cool with it and if she doesn't back off you'll move out. No really though, this is a redundant thread and topic if you are happy as A) you should never improve on what is already a healthy body to please someone else and B) If you are not doing it for yourself (and I mean Christ, we're not even talking about getting buff to impress girls here!) then you will NEVER have the commitment to go through the pain or discipline necessary to build and maintain a larger physique than you were born to have. Not just workouts, also eating/drinking loads of stuff when you aren't hungry, time commitments etc.

Face it, your 18, can eat what you like and it's none of your mothers business. You've cut the crap from your diet ie cakes soda's etc and you are doing intense aerobic activity every day so, shock horror, you've lost weight! If you want it back, re-introduce the calories, doesn't have to be crap, just more decent food and/or do less aerobic activity.

And tell your mum that its none of her business because she doesn't buy you clothes any more (does she?). If YOU are really unhappy and REALLY want to gain muscle then come back and lets see if we can sift through some of the good points and utter nonsense that has been written thus far.

[davie1a]

Very well put and I agree with your points Sentinel but what utter nonsense are you referring to ?

[sentinel]

OK, I gave it a couple of days and if the fellow can't follow up the thread then he's unlikely to follow up the advice.

Davie, I would rather accentuate and highlight the positive points raised than go through an opinion-trashing exercise, that would be a poor use of everyone's time. In answer to your indirectly asked question I (for what it's worth) felt most of your advice sound and all well intended.

[Johan]

Hello everyone. I'm sorry that I haven't been able to post here for the past couple of days, school is currently taking a lot of time (for example, I had 4 tests/presentations last Tuesday).

First of all, thank you for all of your advice. I am going to buy a gym card as soon as I get the money for it, though my wallet is a little too thin at the moment (the exam ball costs a lot). However, until then, I'm going to have to stick to dumbbells and bicycle trainer at home, as well as using my imagination to "invent" exercises.

I have been upping my food intake, as well (about 2100 (weekends, 3 major meals/day) to 2500 (school days, 4 major meals/day) kcal/day now, with more lean meat, as well as lots of whole-grain food (which I already ate before) for breakfast and supper), and no snacks, sodas, french fries etc. whatsoever. I do eat some red meat, though, but that's because I live with my parents and I don't cook my own food. If I had the option, I would eat something else instead.

As I've said, I don't have that much money at the moment, so I can't really take many more supplements than I already do (plus I don't know where to find them here in Sweden).

Edited by namingway, 29 April 2007 - 09:10 PM.

[davie1a]

Thanks for the kind words Sentinal.