155 replies to this topic

[wydell]

I noticed some distributor websites recommending 500mg trans per 50lbs of body weight. Since the average guy is over 150lbs, I titled this thread 2000 mg club. What are people's experiences with this much trans res?

I may go up to 1000. And then during a week of a 5K race, I might try 2000.

I don't think I would be prepared to stay on 2000mg per day dose long term until more studies come out pointing to safety.

Edited by wydell, 28 April 2007 - 10:31 PM.

[xanadu]

I think absorbtion is probably an issue with many people. I found that 60 to 80mg per day was plenty and have even cut back. I'm currently cycling off and am not taking any rsv. You can overdo anything and there is no substance that can't hurt you or kill you if you take too much. I would not encourage people to take heroic doses of the stuff. I think that is the height of foolishness. How would you feel if someone died who followed your plan?

RSV is stimulating and can have psychological effects as well as physical effects. Someone taking hundreds of mg or even taking grams of the stuff might have a low rate of absorbtion but then take some black pepper or other substance that greatly increases absorbtion and then overdose. We don't know the effects of long term overdosing. It may induce 'roid rage. It may do other things.

[Shepard]

As a side note, I was describing  my use of resveratrol to a friend of mine,  and he said that I kind of reminded him of the character Omega Man from the movie of the same title.  I think Charlton Heston played Omega Man.  I thought it was an interesting analogy

I don't get it.

Although, what you might also find interesting....Heston dies in Omega Man.

[Athanasios]

If I were taking it, I would be taking one or two caps of nature way's formula a day. This is just because we do not know at which dose that you start doing the exact opposite of what you want to be doing. Have we posted MR's view of resveratrol anywhere yet?

[Shepard]

Have we posted MR's view of resveratrol anywhere yet?

I'm fairly sure it was posted somewhere in one of those long threads. Might as well link everyone to the forum at the MF, though:

http://www.methusela...isplay.php?f=48

[proteomist]

Xanadu,

Good points, but as far as overdoes we know that rodents can tolerate and even thrive on 400mg/kg day, which would be 40 grams for me. I have heard a second-hand anecdotal account of someone experiencing cognitive problems at 10 g/day.

I can tell you that I can take a 2 gram single dose with a gram of ground up black pepper (experimental, not my usual) and not feel any of the subjective effects I used to feel with 500 mg back when I first started.

As to absorption, studies indicate that higher doses are needed in order to swamp out enzymes catalyzing sulfation and gulcuronidation in the gut epithelium. With doses on the scale you're taking, there is probably almost zero free resveratrol reaching your bloodstream. So presumably the effects you're feeling come from the conjugate forms, perhaps by later processing back to resveratrol. Problem is, nobody really knows what these forms are doing, and if they're doing anything useful at all or rather just ending up in the urine.


Edit: I should point out that my experiments at higher dosage have also been performed with higher purity material. Thus, the lack of subjective effects might indicate that contaminants present in the 50% extracts are responsible for some or perhaps most of the subjective effects. And I'm referring here to the acute effects others have mentioned (mild euphoria, mild stimulation, etc.) rather than longer term effects as on aerobic or lifting ability, blood lipids, etc.

Edited by proteomist, 29 April 2007 - 03:24 AM.

[Athanasios]

I'm fairly sure it was posted somewhere in one of those long threads. Might as well link everyone to the forum at the MF, though:

http://www.methusela...isplay.php?f=48

Thanks. His two posts there should be read by anyone taking or considering resveratrol. It is good to know both the pro and con arguments.

[Brainbox]

I noticed some distributor websites recommending 500mg trans per 50lbs of body weight. 

distributer websites.... [wis]

[wydell]

As I mentioned, I believe this dogage is mentioned on two distributors' websites: megaresveratrol and revgenetic. And I recognize you can overdose on anything. And I don't think anyone is trying to be heroic. Just trying to figure out what works best. I was not planning on doing it long term and I am not necessarily recommending this dosage to others. Obviously it would suck if someone died from taking resveratrol or any of the many other supplements that are mentioned on this site.

I think absorbtion is probably an issue with many people. I found that 60 to 80mg per day was plenty and have even cut back. I'm currently cycling off and am not taking any rsv. You can overdo anything and there is no substance that can't hurt you or kill you if you take too much. I would not encourage people to take heroic doses of the stuff. I think that is the height of foolishness. How would you feel if someone died who followed your plan?

RSV is stimulating and can have psychological effects as well as physical effects. Someone taking hundreds of mg or even taking grams of the stuff might have a low rate of absorbtion but then take some black pepper or other substance that greatly increases absorbtion and then overdose. We don't know the effects of long term overdosing. It may induce 'roid rage. It may do other things.

[wydell]

Well, I guess everyone dies in the end. But did not Heston outlive everyone human on the planet before dying?
I don't really remember the movie. My friend was making some analogy to supplements and the antidote in the movie.

As a side note, I was describing  my use of resveratrol to a friend of mine,  and he said that I kind of reminded him of the character Omega Man from the movie of the same title.  I think Charlton Heston played Omega Man.  I thought it was an interesting analogy

I don't get it.

Although, what you might also find interesting....Heston dies in Omega Man.

[Shepard]

Well, I guess everyone dies in the end. But did not Heston outlive everyone human on the planet before dying?
I don't really remember the movie. My friend was making some analogy to supplements  and the antidote in the movie.

No, he thought he was the only human still alive. He finds out early on that he isn't. He dies, others live on. The antidote was in his blood, but I forget exactly how that came about. I guess you could say he was only one immune to the transformation, though.

[wydell]

Okay, I will strike the Omega Man reference because it does not make any sense whatsoever.

Well, I guess everyone dies in the end. But did not Heston outlive everyone human on the planet before dying?
I don't really remember the movie. My friend was making some analogy to supplements  and the antidote in the movie.

No, he thought he was the only human still alive. He finds out early on that he isn't. He dies, others live on. The antidote was in his blood, but I forget exactly how that came about. I guess you could say he was only one immune to the transformation, though.

[tintinet]

Never saw "Omega Man," although I remember it being a topic of discussion amongst my peers a few times when I was a pre-teen...

I've taken as much as 3 grams t-resveratrol/day. I really don't find the effects, at least subjectively, vary with dose in a linear way. In fact, after the first few weeks of hypomanic euphoria and sense of general well being, perhaps due to tachyphylaxis, perhaps just because I've gotten used to it, I really don't notice any difference, subjectively, at this point, between 500 mg/day and 2+ grams/day.

[maxwatt]

...
I've taken as much as 3 grams t-resveratrol/day. I really don't find the effects, at least subjectively, vary with dose in a linear way.  In fact, after the first few weeks of hypomanic euphoria and sense of general well being, perhaps due to tachyphylaxis, perhaps just because I've gotten used to it, I really don't notice any difference, subjectively, at this point, between 500 mg/day and 2+ grams/day.

I have experimented with higher doses, and felt that above 1.5 grams a day the results were counter productive. Not a verifiable objective measure, but based on subtle change in behavior, mood and physical endurance. I weigh 170 pounds, and don't add quercetin to the mix, just take with breakfast and lunch.

I need less training to attain the same level of aerobic fitness, my blood lipids have been improving significantly, arthritis is slightly improved.

[Da55id]

I have experimented with higher doses, and felt that above 1.5 grams a day the results were counter productive.  Not a verifiable objective measure, but based on subtle change in behavior, mood and physical endurance.  I weigh 170 pounds, and don't add quercetin to the mix, just take with breakfast and lunch.

I need less training to attain the same level of aerobic fitness, my blood lipids have been improving significantly, arthritis is slightly improved.

This matches my experience.

[Mind]

I don't plan on taking any resveratrol as a supplement until more studies are completed.

[wydell]

Have we posted MR's view of resveratrol anywhere yet?

I'm fairly sure it was posted somewhere in one of those long threads. Might as well link everyone to the forum at the MF, though:

http://www.methusela...isplay.php?f=48

I read it and it obviously made me think twice.

[luv2increase]

It seems like people are trying to get "high" of this stuff rather than take it for life-extending reasons. Everyone is looking for an acute effect whilst not keeping their eye on the prize of ultimate longevity.

Seeking a buzz from resv is ridiculous. I'm not saying that you all do this, but why would someone take 2g at one time, mix it with black pepper, and "feel" someone out of this world??? That talk is amongst the same realm of someone talking about upping their oxycontin dose because 20mg just don't do it for them anymore. :(

[tintinet]

Concur: although I'm focused on long term, range for optimal t-resv. dose in humans is not entirely clear (at least ISTM); however, having quite recently begun to experience tingling fingers, I'm going down to a relatively low dose, starting yesterday!

[proteomist]

Clearly you're referring to my post, and have misinterpreted my intent. I am in no way seeking a 'buz', but just trying to use the acute subjective effects as a biomarker for activity levels. Comparing me to an oxycontin junky is way out of line. Why would someone take 2 grams at once with black pepper? How about to try to get a serum level of 10uM, which is in the range we know is necessary to get Sirt1 activation. And that experiment was given as an example of a lack of subjective effects at a high doses. You make it sound like I was complaining I couldn't get high.

And what does this statement mean, anyway? "why would someone take 2g at one time, mix it with black pepper, and "feel" someone out of this world???"

It seems like people are trying to get "high" of this stuff rather than take it for life-extending reasons.  Everyone is looking for an acute effect whilst not keeping their eye on the prize of ultimate longevity. 

Seeking a buzz from resv is ridiculous.  I'm not saying that you all do this, but why would someone take 2g at one time, mix it with black pepper, and "feel" someone out of this world???  That talk is amongst the same realm of someone talking about upping their oxycontin dose because 20mg just don't do it for them anymore. :(

Edited by proteomist, 29 April 2007 - 07:17 PM.

[Brainbox]

Some layman questions:

Is it possible to feel SIRT1 activation? (I guess not)

It seems T-Res has better lifespan increasing abilities in lower life forms. Add to that the fact the our bodies contain some amount of parasites, what could be the implications of that on long term? I see a strange paradox in this. I guess the mouses the studies are performed on live in very clinically clean laboratory environments.

Another paradox could be that the T-Res is part of a plants defence against fungi. And it increases the lifespan of yeast?

[luv2increase]

Clearly you're referring to my post, and have misinterpreted my intent. I am in no way seeking a 'buz', but just trying to use the acute subjective effects as a biomarker for activity levels.  Comparing me to an oxycontin junky is way out of line. Why would someone take 2 grams at once with black pepper? How about to try to get a serum level of 10uM, which is in the range we know is necessary to get Sirt1 activation. And that experiment was given as an example of a lack of subjective effects at a high doses. You make it sound like I was complaining I couldn't get high.
out upping their oxycontin dose because 20mg just don't do it for them anymore. :(

Brainbox has a very good point.

Exactly what does it feel like proteomist when your SIRT1 is activated?

Edited by cnorwood, 30 April 2007 - 01:50 AM.

[Athanasios]

It is OK to question, but please keep the tone civil. Attack the idea, but do not attack the person. I edited the personal attacks out of the last few posts. Keep it civil at this point on.

Edited by cnorwood, 30 April 2007 - 02:08 AM.

[edward]

Someone should merge this thread with the 500 Club... Maybe rename the result as the High Dose Resveratrol Club or something of that nature

Make sense? Easier to read and at least one know where to post updates.

[tintinet]

BTW, trans-resveratrol taper update: Today (day 3 taper), I feel miserably hung over! [sick]

This may be incidental- after all, it is Monday! [cry]

[markymark]

@tintinet,

please charaterize the hang over, is it like an alcohol hang over or what?
rgs.
mm

[tintinet]

Hello everyone,

A couple other resveratrol users and I have come across a company advertising 98% and 99% trans-resveratrol extract powder:
Changsha Organic Herb, Incorporated, based in Hunan, China. Website: http://www.organic-herb.com.

As it stands, the current (as of 4/30/07) quoted cost of 98% and 99% trans-resveratrol is $680 and $800 U.S. Dollars respectively, per kilogram- extremely inexpensive (68 and 80 cents per gram). Orders for quantities below one kilogram are also allowed, but the price is slightly higher. This eliminates the need for a bulk purchase.

The purpose of this post is to enlist other users who would be interested in purchasing this product individually, but would prefer to have it independently tested and assayed beforehand. Due to the considerable cost of such testing, we propose splitting the analysis expenses. At the moment, three of us are interested in having this product tested and are planning to test the advertised 99% trans-resveratrol.

The cost of the complete testing, which includes HPLC analysis for trans-resveratrol, cis-resveratrol, and emodin along with testing for the heavy metals mercury, lead, arsenic, and cadmium, and a plate count, is $600 U.S. dollars. Two of us have recently ordered from this company and have found that the product seems to be of very high quality and the company seems to be professional.

If you are interested in possibly purchasing this product and prior to this would like to have it independently tested and analyzed by American Analytical Chemistry Laboratories Corp. (http://www.aaclabs.com), please let me know. The $600 dollar cost would be split among all of us (however many sign on to share the analysis expenses), potentially making testing much more affordable.


Thanks.

[tintinet]

@tintinet,

please charaterize the hang over, is it like an alcohol hang over or what?
rgs.
mm

Exactly!

But, this may be totally unrelated to my change in t-resv. dose.

Today, I'm beginning to wonder if my reaction (sensory peripheral neuropathy) is idiosyncratic or hypersensitivity reaction rather than dose related. Even a small amount of t-resv. preparations seems to fire it up....

Time may tell!

[Anthony_Loera]

@tintinet,

please charaterize the hang over, is it like an alcohol hang over or what?
rgs.
mm

Exactly!

But, this may be totally unrelated to my change in t-resv. dose.

Today, I'm beginning to wonder if my reaction (sensory peripheral neuropathy) is idiosyncratic or hypersensitivity reaction rather than dose related. Even a small amount of t-resv. preparations seems to fire it up....

Time may tell!

Hi Guys,

Last Friday I had almost forgotten to take my daily 2 Gram dose... So at the end of the day (knowing I was going out to celebrate with a co-worker) I took 2 grams in the evening right before heading to the festivities (I took 98% that I had at my desk... instead of 50% that I normally use).

I have to say that I believe it appeared to have lowered my normal tolerance for alcohol.

So, I am definitely not taking it if I know I will be drinking immediately afterwards.

For those wondering, I had 3 whiskey sours, and 2 shots of tequila in a period between 7pm and 11pm, and 3 slices of pizza. I can normally drink 5 whiskey sours and 2 shots.

In the morning, I did not feel the usual hangover I normally experience with considerable drinking, which was a bit odd.

Just an FYI...

Anthony

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 01 May 2007 - 06:07 PM.

[theone]

"The lifespan increase in yeast is related, apparently, to a decrease in the senescence activity of p53 in these organisms"
http://www.methusela...hread.php?t=246

I am a bit confused. From the limited research I have done Resveratrol seems to activate p53. Not decrease the senescence activity of p53. Unless they are saying that Sir2 activation decrease the senescence activity of p53 while Resveratrol activates it on a different pathway.


Here are some links:

Resveratrol-induced activation of p53 and apoptosis is mediated by extracellular-signal-regulated protein kinases and p38 kinase.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=11245472

Resveratrol-induced Activation of p53 and Apoptosis
http://cancerres.aac.../full/61/4/1604[quote]