• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
- - - - -

2000 mg Club


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#61 proteomist

  • Guest
  • 177 posts
  • 1

Posted 04 May 2007 - 09:43 PM

Nobody said they prove anything. We said they indicate safety at much higher doses than humans are currently taking. From this we infer that these smaller doses are likely very safe. To misquote your adversary and then call that quote 'foolish' is, well....

The world would be nowhere without those so 'foolish' as to try new experiments and methods with the aim of making their best, informed guess as to what will bring positive change. You're welcome to sit on the sidelines and play it safe, but you could at least show some respect for those who choose to be more intrepid than you.

To say that the mouse studies "prove" that large doses are safe is very foolish. They show nothing of the sort. Just because a mouse does not die during a certain time period under a specified dose, doesn't mean you can ramp up and say something similar is therefore safe in humans. First of all, no one asked the mice if they had numbness in their extremities. No one followed up to see how they did later. It was just short studies to find some physical reaction.

I'm all in favor of the mega people taking enormous doses. We need guinea pigs and they are elected and have been self selected. I see that the guy who sells it advocates taking it by the handful. Maybe he will write a guide on cooking with rsv? It must be tiresome swallowing all that powder or pills so why not cook with it? Let the mega people find out for the rest of us what the side effects are. I'll watch from the sidelines. I've cut down to about 1 mg per day in my multivitamin and I'm not sure but I think I can feel that.

"I think megadosing resveratrol is a very new approach and if there is toxicity issues, we might soon find out."

Indeed



#62 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 04 May 2007 - 09:44 PM

Uhm... tobar8

I dont know where I wrote 2 years in my last post... I think you may have read it incorrectly.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#63 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 04 May 2007 - 09:57 PM

I see that the guy who sells it advocates taking it by the handful. Maybe he will write a guide on cooking with rsv? It must be tiresome swallowing all that powder or pills so why not cook with it? Let the mega people find out for the rest of us what the side effects are. I'll watch from the sidelines. I've cut down to about 1 mg per day in my multivitamin and I'm not sure but I think I can feel that.


Actually, the powder is much easier to take by capsule, specially the vegetarian capsules as they appear to get real slippery with liquid while the gelatin ones get just a speck sticky. I don't advise cooking with resveratrol... I have the impression you won't get much value from crispy rsv in your fried chicken.

I appreciate it that you will let us find out for ourselves if it has any benefits, or not.

I am sure most folks who will consider it, may also be in situations, or have a family history, that makes them lean in, (or out) of taking 500mg or more of Resveratrol. That's fine, I think each individual will do what is best for themselves.

Thanks
Anthony Loera

#64 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 04 May 2007 - 10:13 PM

Certainly, taking the synthetic, 99%+ purity trans-resveratrol is easy! No discernible flavor- toss it in anything without, AFAICT, alteration of taste or consistency.

#65 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,941 posts
  • 1,615
  • Location:New York

Posted 05 May 2007 - 01:57 AM

Certainly, taking the synthetic, 99%+ purity trans-resveratrol is easy!  No discernible flavor- toss it in anything without, AFAICT, alteration of taste or consistency.


A Chinese user tells me it ruins the taste of rice.

#66 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:31 PM

Don't eat much rice myself. Very few grains at all, in fact. Mostly fruit, vegetables, low fat protein (mostly plant origin and whey, occasional fish.)

#67 xanadu

  • Guest
  • 1,917 posts
  • 8

Posted 05 May 2007 - 09:35 PM

RSV has become a fad item among certain people. The mindset of "if a little is good then a lot is better" has taken hold. Mice do not die on those dosages so therefore I should take that much. Sounds scientific to me... sort of.

A little spice makes the meal better. Why not use ounces of spice with each meal? You probably won't die, the mice didn't die. If a little vit C is good for you then take a pound a day, or however much you can tolerate. Who will be the first person to die from rsv? Then the damn govt will probably ban it.

#68 Brainbox

  • Guest
  • 2,860 posts
  • 743
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 05 May 2007 - 10:17 PM

Who will be the first person to die from rsv? Then the damn govt will probably ban it.

We ask for regulatory interventions we don't want as we need our freedom to act unwise. [sfty]

#69 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,941 posts
  • 1,615
  • Location:New York

Posted 06 May 2007 - 03:00 AM

Who will be the first person to die from rsv? Then the damn govt will probably ban it.

We ask for regulatory interventions we don't want as we need our freedom to act unwise. [sfty]


The only way to kill a mouse with resveratrol is to hit it on the head with the bottle, or o bury him with it so he suffocates.

One Chinese company states the LD50 dose in humans is 1000 mg/kg. I don't know how they determined this but it is certainly much higher than any of the megadoses described here. There was a US government sponsored toxicity study available on the web; I believe the highest challenge dose in humans they mentioned was 25 grams, no ill effect.

Xanadu: I've only taken 98% pure resveratrol or higher, and I do not notice any stimulatory effects whatsoever, in higher doses than what you have described taking. The resveratrol supplements you have said you use have other substances from the plant it occurs in, and other additives: quercetin, perhapsm and grape seed, pine bark and what else? Maybe the problems you report are due to these impurities or adulterants rather than resveratrol?

#70 Brainbox

  • Guest
  • 2,860 posts
  • 743
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:03 AM

I've been trying T-Res (about 200mg) for a short time. This did put my both feet on firm ground again. Worth spending a half hour reading and a day afterwards to absorb. No megadosing for me until more research is available. There are also my questions regarding the the design of the Sinclair study that I raised in the 500mg thread.

The only way to kill a mouse with resveratrol is to hit it on the head with the bottle, or o bury him with it so he suffocates.



#71 hormoneman

  • Guest
  • 95 posts
  • 0

Posted 06 May 2007 - 01:46 PM

Sinclair recomends taking 5mg per kilo of body weight - that wouls max out the dose at 500mgs for most people - 2000mgs per day is using the exact mice dose of 24mg per kilo of bw - I think I'll go with Sinclair - although I'm thing of going to 1000mgs per day but that would be the upper limit

BTW - 500 mg per day reduced my wife's blood pressure from 144/70 to 122/70 in less tha 2 months

#72 xanadu

  • Guest
  • 1,917 posts
  • 8

Posted 06 May 2007 - 08:50 PM

So the people who reported tingling and numbness were mistaken or that's not important? There have been a number of side effects reported but the gung ho people just blow it off. I don't think neuropathy is something to ignore or laugh off.

The only way to kill a mouse with resveratrol is to hit it on the head with the bottle, or o bury him with it so he suffocates.


Would you like that inscribed on your tombstone? It sounds like famous last words.

#73 sUper GeNius

  • Guest
  • 1,501 posts
  • 1
  • Location:Phila PA USA Earth

Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:06 PM

So the people who reported tingling and numbness were mistaken or that's not important? There have been a number of side effects reported but the gung ho people just blow it off. I don't think neuropathy is something to ignore or laugh off.

The only way to kill a mouse with resveratrol is to hit it on the head with the bottle, or o bury him with it so he suffocates.


Would you like that inscribed on your tombstone? It sounds like famous last words.



Neuropathy? You are quick to diagnose nerve damage, aren't you?

Anecdotal evidence is fairly worthless. Now if these people go to their physician, and she diagnose neuropathy, that that's when we should all take notice.

Sirtris is in Phase 1b as we speak. In Phase 1a there were reports of side effects that were both reversible and not serious to begin with.

#74 proteomist

  • Guest
  • 177 posts
  • 1

Posted 06 May 2007 - 09:22 PM

Xanadu, would you just once, please support your contentions with scientific evidence rather than emotion-driven, anecdote-laden declarations? I'm not trying to be an ass here, but man is your baseless pessimism getting old.

#75 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 07 May 2007 - 01:53 AM

Well, I am a physician, or, at least that's what they tell me, and the symptoms I've experienced are, AFAIK, a mild sensory peripheral neuropathy.

Whether or not this is due to having taken more than 2 grams of trans-resveratrol/day for weeks, I don't know. I've tapered down to about 1 gram/day without much discernable alteration in my symptoms, and I take a dizzying variety of other supplements.

The one other I started taking at approximately the same time I started taking high dose (I've taken 1 Longevinex/day for years): Benagene. I suppose I ought to take a vacation from that for a bit and see if the symptoms abate.

#76 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,941 posts
  • 1,615
  • Location:New York

Posted 07 May 2007 - 02:40 AM

I've been trying T-Res (about 200mg) for a short time. This did put my both feet on firm ground again(link to Methuslah Foundation thread). Worth spending a half hour reading and a day afterwards to absorb. No megadosing for me until more research is available. There are also my questions regarding the the design of the Sinclair study that I raised in the 500mg thread.


I was not impressed with Methuselahmouse's "paper"; his arguments against resveratrol amount to: a. certain tumors upregulate SirT1, and b. Only short-lived variants of species have shown increased life-span with resveratrol.

a. is largely irrelevant; one would expect tumors, which often have a very stressful, hypoxic micro-environment to upregulate a stress-response master regulator. I see no reason at this point to think that it's causative rather than an adaptive response in the tumor.

b. One could say the same of CR; a wild strain of mice showed no increase in life-span on CR. (In any case, humans are not a wild strain of homo sapiens.) Short of a life span study, one can only look at associated bio-markers. These look positive across species, though one can present them in a negative light.

It is clear than many genes are commonly activated by CR and by resveratrol, across many species. The anecdotal reports on this form (and elsewhere) of people taking various doses is that resveratrol supplementation reverses many markers of aging, e. g. unfavorable blood lipids, high blood pressure, arthritic symptoms. Negative effects reported have been few and far between; until Tintinet reported numbness and tingling in his extremities, the most serious symptom reported seemed to be diarrhea, and that due mostly to the emodin present in most extracts. Xanadu reported over-stimulation, but: the only reports of resveratrol as a stimulant seem to be with preparations containg OPCs, psychological symptoms such as insomnia are frequently misattributed to external factors. Those on high doses of 98% oure extract of synthetic resveratrol do not report a drug-like stimulatory effect.

I was the one who reported, months ago, that the experience of Chinese medicine with Polygonum-containing herbal preparations used to treat many conditions symptomatic of aging, implied the symptoms of chronic overdose might be the same in resveratrol: peripheral neuropathy, a numbness and tingling in the extremities, that would be reversed on cessation of supplementation. Now Tintinet has announced that on a dose of 2 grams a day he has those symptoms. Since many here have been taking similarly large doses, and at least one person I know of has been taking 6 grams a day for a year, without such symptoms, I have to ask: are Tintinet's symptoms due to resveratrol, or to another among his plethora of supplements? Or perhaps it is a synergistic effect with another of his supplements. Quercetin, perhaps? And now he tells us he is taking Benegene as well, and his symptoms started about the time he started taking Benegene and increased his dose of resveratrol. Please, Tintinet, revert to your previous regimen, and when your symptoms cease, change just one variable at a time.

In short the only reported symptom I find troubling is Tintinet's neuropathy, which may not be due to resveratrol, and is not replicated among other high-dose users. The reported stimulatory effect also does not appear to be due to resveratrol. Whether resveratrol will extend life span is unknown, but there have been sufficiently many reports of beneficial effects here and elsewhere for me to come to my own conclusion.

#77 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:10 AM

"I concur, Dr." maxwatt, as they say in the movies.

I have not been "quick" to dx SPN. In retrospect, I have noted subtle sxs of it for some months, since I began taking both Benagene and high dose (>1 gram/day--->2-3 grams/day) trans-resveratrol (various sources including Orchid 99%+ synthetic.)

At first, it was very subtle, and intermittent, occurring only during periods of prolonged relative fasting. Lately, it had become more continuous. In the past few days, it seems to be less severe and more transient once again (continued Benagene, so far, 1 tab/day AOR; ~ 1 gram/day trans-resveratrol).

I will, starting today, d/c Benagene and follow. As I've written here (forums @ Imminst.org, if not this specifice thread), I don't yet know if my sxs are due to t-resv., and if they are, if they represent an idiopathic hypersensitivity reaction rather than dose-dependent "toxicity." ISTM, at this early stage, it's not the latter.

#78 luv2increase

  • Guest
  • 2,529 posts
  • 37
  • Location:Ohio

Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:14 PM

I hope the day doesn't come when they find out that resveratrol activates a certain gene that is only found in humans which cause a substantial increase in ageing along with a host of other problems.

This is an inherent risk of taking stuff like this. It really bugs me when I hear people on hear talk like there is no danger whatsoever in taking stuff like resveratrol. Hell, we don't even know much about the stuff, possibly even its "true" mechanisms of action.

You have people on hear talk like they are god and know all that is to be known about it. I think it is wayyy to premature to start taking resveratrol. This especially being true for those of you into your 20's and 30's taking this stuff. This is what I call an overkill when it comes to preventative measures. When you play with fire, you may very well get burned.

Plus, has any research been done to show what happens when you take this for awhile then discontinue. What if this is done a number of times. Doing this with a substance that has an affect on genes doesn't seem like too bright of an idea.

I look at it like this. Instead of being the guinea pig, I'll let others be the guinea pigs ---> and I just don't mean monkeys.

Play it smart, not stupid.


If someone truly wants to experience a long, happy life; they don't mess around with potentially devastatingly disastrous chemicals which may ultimately directly lead to their utter demise. This is the complete opposite of an ideal immortalist outlook upon things.

#79 Anthony_Loera

  • Life Member
  • 3,130 posts
  • 714
  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:51 PM

If someone truly wants to experience a long, happy life; they don't mess around with potentially devastatingly disastrous chemicals which may ultimately directly lead to their utter demise. This is the complete opposite of an ideal immortalist outlook upon things.



I will continue to use Resveratrol that comes from natural sources, and if you do not, that is fine. I believe at this point most of the argument is really come down to people's opinions regarding rsv.

We can look at all the scientific evidence we currently have, use the FDA guidelines for dosage (using rsv in mice plasma vs human plasma), and I believe we would still have folks on both sides of this question.

Until there are human trials, you will simply not get a clear resolution. So, I continue to use 2grams a day of resveratrol, no more, no less...

Anthony Loera

#80 Mind

  • Life Member, Moderator, Secretary
  • 16,247 posts
  • 2,002
  • Location:Wausau, WI

Posted 07 May 2007 - 10:10 PM

I am on the cautious side, so I haven't used any rsv yet (except in the wine I drink), but I won't stop anyone else from taking it. For the most part, I believe everyone should make their own decisions for their own body. Right now I am a little surprised at how the "optimal" dosage has increased so much in just the last few months. Seems like just yesterday that moderate amounts of merlot (or a concertrated wine extract) was plenty beneficial, now it is 2000mg.

#81 proteomist

  • Guest
  • 177 posts
  • 1

Posted 07 May 2007 - 11:11 PM

I had a conversation about the 'red wine and resveratrol' subject with a few faculty at my university last week. These are well known scientists who would be considered significant experts in pharmacology and molecular biology. The consensus was deep sketicism that resveratrol in wine has any sort of therapeutic relevance as the doses are practically homeopathic. And for what it's worth, while I've been following the resveratrol story for eight years, I've never once bought into the idea that it explains the French Paradox.

So in my opinion, the doses you're seeing used now only seem large in the context of several years of inaccurate conventional wisdom. This makes a lot of people uncomfortable, and for a variety of reasons. To me, the gram scale doses seem perfectly reasonable, and the 5-50mg sort have always seemed irrelevant.

I am on the cautious side, so I haven't used any rsv yet (except in the wine I drink), but I won't stop anyone else from taking it. For the most part, I believe everyone should make their own decisions for their own body. Right now I am a little surprised at how the "optimal" dosage has increased so much in just the last few months. Seems like just yesterday that moderate amounts of merlot (or a concertrated wine extract) was plenty beneficial, now it is 2000mg.



#82 marqueemoon

  • Guest
  • 78 posts
  • 0

Posted 08 May 2007 - 12:40 AM

Maxwatt, I generally agree with your take on resveratrol, but your support of the anecdotal evidence raises one question. If Rsv works by changing gene expression, wouldn't this effect take a long time to show up in biomarker form? Most of the people reporting beneficial effects have only been taking resveratrol for a few months. Would that be long enough for the effects to crop up? Do you know when Sinclair started to see the mice on the resveratrol deviate from the control group in terms of biomarkers?

#83 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,941 posts
  • 1,615
  • Location:New York

Posted 08 May 2007 - 01:02 AM

Maxwatt, I generally agree with your take on resveratrol, but your support of the anecdotal evidence raises one question. If Rsv works by changing gene expression, wouldn't this effect take a long time to show up in biomarker form? Most of the people reporting beneficial effects have only been taking resveratrol for a few months. Would that be long enough for the effects to crop up? Do you know when Sinclair started to see the mice on the resveratrol deviate from the control group in terms of biomarkers?


I think it would take about as long to show up as the effects of caloric restriction on markers like blood pressure, blood lipids, and blood glucose. Measurable effects within a matter of weeks, full effects in several months or longer. I would have to study Sinclair's raw data to draw a time line for mice, and because of differences in metabolic rate, I've no idea if it would be significant.

#84 bixbyte

  • Guest
  • 552 posts
  • 45
  • Location:End of the Galaxy
  • NO

Posted 30 May 2007 - 01:05 AM

Maxwatt, I generally agree with your take on resveratrol, but your support of the anecdotal evidence raises one question. If Rsv works by changing gene expression, wouldn't this effect take a long time to show up in biomarker form? Most of the people reporting beneficial effects have only been taking resveratrol for a few months. Would that be long enough for the effects to crop up? Do you know when Sinclair started to see the mice on the resveratrol deviate from the control group in terms of biomarkers?


I think it would take about as long to show up as the effects of caloric restriction on markers like blood pressure, blood lipids, and blood glucose. Measurable effects within a matter of weeks, full effects in several months or longer. I would have to study Sinclair's raw data to draw a time line for mice, and because of differences in metabolic rate, I've no idea if it would be significant.


My latest test, like athletes doping, wife and I went down the shore and added an extra 420 MG of 98% RSV to our daily intake.
approx 1400 mg for a one day "marathon"
She did about 20 miles fast walking on the Boardwalk and the temp was 80.
Wife had 3 drinks and reported she could not feel them.
I did at least 12 miles plus some other exercises.
I dropped about 2.5 pounds weighted myself today @ 190.5 in my shoes (wonder if the weight will stay off)
Seeing my MD june 16 and will request blood lipid tests.

Live long and prosper

#85 bixbyte

  • Guest
  • 552 posts
  • 45
  • Location:End of the Galaxy
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2007 - 04:04 PM

Has anyone you noticed any growth effects taking large doses of RSV?

My hair is growing much faster, instead of thinning I have hair growing closer from my sideburns to my eyebrows.
Just had my 8 inch ponytail cut to 4 inch.
Plus my nails need to be cut more frequently.

I think, either RSV or Glutathione intake is the cause?

Alex

#86 medievil

  • Guest Guest
  • 3,750 posts
  • 20
  • Location:Belguim

Posted 05 June 2007 - 05:09 PM

^^what dose are you taking?

#87 bixbyte

  • Guest
  • 552 posts
  • 45
  • Location:End of the Galaxy
  • NO

Posted 05 June 2007 - 07:31 PM

^^what dose are you taking?



about 1000 mg day

Alex


#88 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 06 June 2007 - 01:51 AM

Has anyone you noticed any growth effects taking large doses of RSV?

My hair is growing much faster, instead of thinning I have hair growing closer from my sideburns to my eyebrows.
Just had my 8 inch ponytail cut to 4 inch.
Plus my nails need to be cut more frequently.

I think, either RSV or Glutathione intake is the cause?

Alex


Yes. My hair, only fairly recently cut, seems way too long, and I'm still weeks away from my next
regularly scheduled haircut. Oddly.

#89 mirian

  • Guest
  • 166 posts
  • 0

Posted 19 June 2007 - 08:16 AM

Concur: although I'm focused on long term, range for optimal t-resv. dose in humans is not entirely clear (at least ISTM); however, having quite recently begun to experience tingling fingers, I'm going down to a relatively low dose, starting yesterday!


What daily dose were you taking? Interested in your regimen causing this.

1.What type of resveratrol, & what %(50%, 98%, etc)?

2. Taking how many mg how many times a day?

3. What other brands and names of supplements you're also taking?

This is how we can really learn off one another.

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#90 tintinet

  • Location:ME

Posted 19 June 2007 - 05:10 PM

Woa...

Well, t-resv. dose ~1 gram/day, divided doses. Mostly synthetic 99%+ pure
Orchid brand. Other supps. vary. I take a lot of things intermittently.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users