45 replies to this topic

[medievil]

hey

i've done some research and i wouldnt take a racetam if you are depressed
for example this anecdotal report:
"Oxiracetam seems to have a good effect on me for a few days, but if I keep taking it constantly - choline or not - I will get a marked depressive episode starting arpund day 4."

[rebuild101]

hey

i've done some research and i wouldnt take a racetam if you are depressed
for example this anecdotal report:
"Oxiracetam seems to have a good effect on me for a few days, but if I keep taking it constantly - choline or not - I will get a marked depressive episode starting arpund day 4."

I second that caution. Even though I am not currently/normally depressed, I have had major depression in the past. Since I started experimenting with piracetam a couple months ago I have had three notable depression episodes. It seems the episodes usually occur around the time that I lower (or raise) the dose. Correlation does not equal causation, but there may be a link. Obviously, dose changes should be in small increments anyway...

[jackj]

The changes in dose does correlate for me and my depressive moods, also, thanks for pointing it out. While not overly depressed prior I found I was in almost manic states (i think i have mild mania with or without the stuff) for a day at a time during a period where i was not constant in what i took. i was switching between just piracetam. hydergine, lecithin and 5htp to see their effects. Prior to these episodes i had been taking a constant amount of all of them for about 3 months. Then due to relationship reasons i let a few things slip. I started taking doses of just one or the other and going a week without anything at time. I also found a night of heavy drinking brought it on (i really try not to over do it lately). this past week or two i've been very constant with 800mg of pira 2 caps of lecithin and a magnesium complex in the morning. in the afternoon 800mg pira and lecithin and a multi and im feeling very content and stable along with the better concentration i seem to use it for.

personally i've been struggling to find a 'negative' for piracetam but this does explain something. although of all the times in life to mess with dose i probably chose the worst one .. hmm, life goes on!

so yeah i agree with rebuild and i stay constant to see if i have the same problems.

Edited by unlucid, 16 June 2007 - 03:14 AM.

[luv2increase]

Everyone is depressed at some point in their lives. I for one have been depressed on numerous occasions. This doesn't stop me in my endless, relentless pursuit to be the best and happiest I can possibly be.

I think a lot has to do with working through the negative by positive resources. This includes a number of things. If you truly want some good advice, PM me.

I'm out.

[jackj]

I can air some advice and would gladly take any.

Personally i find it creeps up on me and before i know it i have sunk into the "no doors" mindset in which i cant contemplate a positive. Feeling normal (now) i find it hard myself to even contemplate the thoughts i sometimes have but i know it happens. Its just a question of knowing when its about to and fighting it. Because I know i'm better than the pits of black i sometimes see, everyone is!

I've been dealing with this for _years_ and i've just accepted it as a fact of me. I was to proud to admit i had a problem even when close people said i should speak to "someone" but i knew they would just put me on an SSRI or some such and i didnt want that. I've seen first hand and read about what _can_ happen. instead i rolled with it until now and reading this forum is a great help along with everything else. Understanding my mind is paramount for me of late and figuring out exactly what and why i trigger into states.

I will admit this is NOT helpful for everyone and depends on personality no doubt (im fairly private). Plus is is probably barely on topic but so what!

I am the God of my own body/mind and i think i'm better off for knowing it (now)

Plus is not directed to anyone here, just another rant.

Cheers.

[luv2increase]

Do you expect to be happy 24/7? It is absolutely normal to have lows in life.

[jackj]

Yeah well after that post i went for a nap. i woke up feeling less then average, food didnt help, this weeks supp. regime didn't help either, was looking to head out and wow possibly one of the worst anxiety attacks i've had for a long time :(

i'm not looking to be happy all the time i just want some stability and normality that i thought i was getting. perhaps this is out of league (self medication) as its been some 6 months now with no real answers, i just get manifestions of my old self. i can maintain what seems to be a contented feel but i still end up with the same excuses after a period of a few days. which is better than i have been with none of this stuff. i must admit this fortnight was one of the better ones.

plus im out of piracetam due to shipment delays so it could be an interesting week.

cheers luv2increase and i'll stop the hijack on this thread to.

** after rethinking/reading this all perhaps its best i at least speak to someone professionally to see what they say. because really this forum was my last grasp. i'll be sure to let you know

Edited by unlucid, 16 June 2007 - 06:19 PM.

[hayjay]

Steve

Just thought id throw my hat into this discussion too, as Ive had similar experiences to you.

I experienced a *definite* cognitive decline following 3-4 years VERY heavy marijuana use (based on a concentration-inhalation method). Same symptoms - fatigue, lack of communication, inability to concentrate, etc etc. After a 3 year complete abstinence the symptoms failed to improve, in fact returning to marijuana use i found that small amounts of intake actually helped the situation ie made me a bit better. This lead me to believe, as you probably do, that the problem was biochemical in its nature and therefore 'treatable' to some extent, as opposed to say physiological eg I had simply wasted too much brain matter.

After consultation with various doctors - and my experience was that there is no real medical knowledge of how to treat marijuana-related cognitive decline (where is the money is that?) and I have searched medical journals worldwide looking for it, there was no definite answer as to what to do, but most of the doctors I talked to said that their thoughts/impressions were that the problems were caused by low serotonin levels, and that SSRI's were the answer.

At this point I was willing to try medication, as the lack of congitive ability and loss of myself had severly impacted my life, as you could imagine. I spent the next 3-4 years experimenting with various forms of SSRI's, and my summary is this - that they are like a step sideways rather than a step forwards. They make things different, but not necessarily better. Their benefits are equaled or outweighed by their detractions, mainly the sexual disfunction. Imagine yourself in the situation I have regularly found myself in - back to a 'normal' state of mind whereby I have the confidence and abilities to go out and meet or date someone, only to find that it is near impossible to form a meaningful relationship with that person, or even move past second base, because the SSRI's have completely erased my sex drive. Likewise, they always, without fail, have made me to some degree sleepy, even after attentuating on them (getting used to them). This means that I am apt to fall asleep during meetings, when travelling in a car or pretty much any situation where I sit still for a few seconds. Conclusion: SSRIs may help you, but they are not the answer. I find myself now, for all intents and purposes, addicted to them, and wish I had never started them. That said, I do know that I am better off when I am on them than off them. It has been too long now for me to tell if that is the addiction factor, or whether they actually improve the situation.

The reason I went on SSRIs was because they affect serotonin. To find out if serotonin was the problem before going on SSRIs, I took an ecstacy pill, as ecstacy causes a massive serotonin dump. To enlighten you to something i didnt know, ecstacy pills in Australia are a combination of XTC (MDMA) and speed. Yes, of course I felt great, that wasnt the point - the point was, did it improve my congitive self? The answer was, after i stopped tripping, YES! Hence why I went on the SSRIs. It wasnt until a year or two later that I found out that the vast, and yes it was a vast improvement, to my being, self and congition was due in fact to the speed, and not the MDMA, in the pill. The speed had increased my dopamine levels, and that was what had improved myself.

With this information I went to the doctors again and asked them what do to, with the knowledge that SSRIs were also making me sleepy and asexual, even if they were helping somewhat. The doctors flatly (rightly so I would say) refused to prescribe the two main dopamergenic drugs adderall (mixed amphetamine salts) and ritalin (just about the same, methylphenidate). Both of these are very short-term solutions, not long term treatment strategies, and would doubtless cause more trouble than they would fix. So instead, he suggested wellbutrin as he has for you, probably not a bad move considering that it is a reasonably good dopamine reuptake inhibitor at the right doses.

It did help with the sleepyness, in fact it corrected my energy levels perfectly and I was able to join the swimming team again, pull some mighty long and hard overtime shifts at work, at go out a bit too, all without being 'wired'. Correspondingly, due to a drug-drug interaction, it also allowed me to reduce the SSRI intake to 1/3 of what it had been. Unfortunately, for me it was not a long-term solution as it caused skin problems (namely acne on the face and back, also some on the arms and legs) which increased in severity over time until now, around a year or so after starting it, I can no longer take it as it causes me to break out, even one pill. If it werent for that, I would probably just be taking 100mg of wellbutrin daily. Towards the end of the wellbutrin cycle, i also came off SSRI's, and functioned normally for some time on the wellbutrin alone. Wellbutrin is easy to go on and come off, is rapidly effective and will not cause long-term addiction. If you were going to try any particular type of medication, I would recommend it for this particular type of problem, but for the fact that I have come across several cases of skin irritation happening with long-term use?

So where am I now? Back on SSRIs, but hating it. Off wellbutrin, and liking it. Trialing modafinil, not liking it (feels like ive just down two large coffees, kinda high blood pressure wired feeling without being active/concentrating), and looking seriously at Deprenyl (I am now almost 30 so perhaps it is an option). What I will most probably end up with is this: low-dose SSRI's on a daily basis (10mg fluoxetine I find best, lower doses fail to intervene, higher doses bring on symptoms), with adderall or methylphenidate not as a daily option, but as a fall-back for when I do need to be effective, eg to study, for social situations, etc. I realise its not a daily use option, but to be honest, low dose methamphetime has always, without fail, been the only thing that I have come across that has returned me to the full sense of self I once had and totally erradicated all the damaging symptoms I have experienced from mairjuana use. Needless to say, it also overrides the SSRI sleepyness and sexual dysfunction. Perhaps their use in conjunction with deprenyl will prevent any further damage. I have tried EVERY natural supplement from St johns wart to fish oils to vitamins to 5HTP, and yes some make changes but none worthwhile enough to say it is a worthy treatment option (that said, exercise has always played a key role in my treatment strategies, without it I feel like s**t, no pill alone will make you feel great by itself without exercise as well, dont be lazy!).

My key point is this: I am now 30 and taking medications every day that I will never be able to stop for the rest of my life. I do not (obviously) like the situation im in now, but given the choice between being unable to function properly, and taking meds every day, I choose the meds. Even if they cut my life short by 10 or 20 years? YES. I would prefer that than to live the rest of my live in the uncommunicative shell I had to for many years following heavy marijuana use. This is not depression, the symptoms are not far off early signs of parkinsonism and to be honest, I believe daily neurotransmiter elevation therapy in the form of SSRIs and ?deprenyl or wellbutrin will help ward off the further deterioration of these symptoms.

A bit of a mess, but i hope it helps.

Jason

[the steve]

Steve

Just thought id throw my hat into this discussion too, as Ive had similar experiences to you.

I experienced a *definite* cognitive decline following 3-4 years VERY heavy marijuana use (based on a concentration-inhalation method).  Same symptoms - fatigue, lack of communication, inability to concentrate, etc etc.  After a 3 year complete abstinence the symptoms failed to improve, in fact returning to marijuana use i found that small amounts of intake actually helped the situation ie made me a bit better.  This lead me to believe, as you probably do, that the problem was biochemical in its nature and therefore 'treatable' to some extent, as opposed to say physiological eg I had simply wasted too much brain matter.

Yes, exactly.

I haven't touched any marijuana at all since the new year(6 months).
Prior to that I had only been smoking pot maybe a couple times a week for 7-8 months, due to paranoia. For years I was a heavy smoker but towards the end of my drug use extreme paranoia was beginning to set in-helicopters and planes were watching me and taking pictures, every siren was after me, people were conspiring to get me etc etc. This was the main reason for stopping and cutting back on marijuana.

While I would quit for a time, I'd smoke again every once in a while. If I smoked too much the paranoia would come back, if I only smoked a bit(2 hits) I'd regain most of my cognitive function, ambition, etc. Just a little hit here and there would re-energize me for hours.

After consultation with various doctors - and my experience was that there is no real medical knowledge of how to treat marijuana-related cognitive decline (where is the money is that?) and I have searched medical journals worldwide looking for it, there was no definite answer as to what to do, but most of the doctors I talked to said that their thoughts/impressions were that the problems were caused by low serotonin levels, and that SSRI's were the answer.

At this point I was willing to try medication, as the lack of congitive ability and loss of myself had severly impacted my life, as you could imagine.  I spent the next 3-4 years experimenting with various forms of SSRI's, and my summary is this - that they are like a step sideways rather than a step forwards.  They make things different, but not necessarily better.  Their benefits are equaled or outweighed by their detractions, mainly the sexual disfunction.  Imagine yourself in the situation I have regularly found myself in - back to a 'normal' state of mind whereby I have the confidence and abilities to go out and meet or date someone, only to find that it is near impossible to form a meaningful relationship with that person, or even move past second base, because the SSRI's have completely erased my sex drive.  Likewise, they always, without fail, have made me to some degree sleepy, even after attentuating on them (getting used to them).  This means that I am apt to fall asleep during meetings, when travelling in a car or pretty much any situation where I sit still for a few seconds.  Conclusion: SSRIs may help you, but they are not the answer.  I find myself now, for all intents and purposes, addicted to them, and wish I had never started them.  That said, I do know that I am better off when I am on them than off them.  It has been too long now for me to tell if that is the addiction factor, or whether they actually improve the situation.

The reason I went on SSRIs was because they affect serotonin.  To find out if serotonin was the problem before going on SSRIs, I took an ecstacy pill, as ecstacy causes a massive serotonin dump.  To enlighten you to something i didnt know, ecstacy pills in Australia are a combination of XTC (MDMA) and speed.  Yes, of course I felt great, that wasnt the point - the point was, did it improve my congitive self?  The answer was, after i stopped tripping, YES!  Hence why I went on the SSRIs.  It wasnt until a year or two later that I found out that the vast, and yes it was a vast improvement, to my being, self and congition was due in fact to the speed, and not the MDMA, in the pill.  The speed had increased my dopamine levels, and that was what had improved myself.

With this information I went to the doctors again and asked them what do to, with the knowledge that SSRIs were also making me sleepy and asexual, even if they were helping somewhat.  The doctors flatly (rightly so I would say) refused to prescribe the two main dopamergenic drugs adderall (mixed amphetamine salts) and ritalin (just about the same, methylphenidate).  Both of these are very short-term solutions, not long term treatment strategies, and would doubtless cause more trouble than they would fix.  So instead, he suggested wellbutrin as he has for you, probably not a bad move considering that it is a reasonably good dopamine reuptake inhibitor at the right doses.

It did help with the sleepyness, in fact it corrected my energy levels perfectly and I was able to join the swimming team again, pull some mighty long and hard overtime shifts at work, at go out a bit too, all without being 'wired'.  Correspondingly, due to a drug-drug interaction, it also allowed me to reduce the SSRI intake to 1/3 of what it had been.  Unfortunately, for me it was not a long-term solution as it caused skin problems (namely acne on the face and back, also some on the arms and legs) which increased in severity over time until now, around a year or so after starting it, I can no longer take it as it causes me to break out, even one pill.  If it werent for that, I would probably just be taking 100mg of wellbutrin daily.  Towards the end of the wellbutrin cycle, i also came off SSRI's, and functioned normally for some time on the wellbutrin alone.  Wellbutrin is easy to go on and come off, is rapidly effective and will not cause long-term addiction.  If you were going to try any particular type of medication, I would recommend it for this particular type of problem, but for the fact that I have come across several cases of skin irritation happening with long-term use?

So where am I now?  Back on SSRIs, but hating it.  Off wellbutrin, and liking it.  Trialing modafinil, not liking it (feels like ive just down two large coffees, kinda high blood pressure wired feeling without being active/concentrating), and looking seriously at Deprenyl (I am now almost 30 so perhaps it is an option).  What I will most probably end up with is this: low-dose SSRI's on a daily basis (10mg fluoxetine I find best, lower doses fail to intervene, higher doses bring on symptoms), with adderall or methylphenidate not as a daily option, but as a fall-back for when I do need to be effective, eg to study, for social situations, etc.  I realise its not a daily use option, but to be honest, low dose methamphetime has always, without fail, been the only thing that I have come across that has returned me to the full sense of self I once had and totally erradicated all the damaging symptoms I have experienced from mairjuana use.  Needless to say, it also overrides the SSRI sleepyness and sexual dysfunction.  Perhaps their use in conjunction with deprenyl will prevent any further damage.  I have tried EVERY natural supplement from St johns wart to fish oils to vitamins to 5HTP, and yes some make changes but none worthwhile enough to say it is a worthy treatment option (that said, exercise has always played a key role in my treatment strategies, without it I feel like s**t, no pill alone will make you feel great by itself without exercise as well, dont be lazy!).

My key point is this: I am now 30 and taking medications every day that I will never be able to stop for the rest of my life.  I do not (obviously) like the situation im in now, but given the choice between being unable to function properly, and taking meds every day, I choose the meds.  Even if they cut my life short by 10 or 20 years?  YES.  I would prefer that than to live the rest of my live in the uncommunicative shell I had to for many years following heavy marijuana use.  This is not depression, the symptoms are not far off early signs of parkinsonism and to be honest, I believe daily neurotransmiter elevation therapy in the form of SSRIs and ?deprenyl or wellbutrin will help ward off the further deterioration of these symptoms. 

A bit of a mess, but i hope it helps.

Jason

Your post has been extremely helpful. I've been extremely opposed to medications but as you said, even if it were to cut my life short if they could enhance the years I have now it'd be worth it.

I think I will fill that Wellbutrin prescription and see if it helps. If not, no harm done. Excuse my brief reply but I wish to discuss this with you further. I will reply again later or PM you. Thank you!

[macrohistory]

FOR RECOVERING from the mood, cognition, and motivational problems that can follow a period of extensive drug and alcohol abuse, you might try SAM-e. SAM-e's mood effects are well-known; below are four abstracts (out of many that are relevant) that make the case SAM-e can also help with other forms of brain dysfunction:



Exp Neurol. 1987 Dec;98(3):459-71. Related Articles, Links

S-adenosyl-L-methionine facilitates recovery from deficits in delayed response and hand movement tasks following brain lesions in monkeys.

Takahashi J, Nishino H, Ono T.

Department of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, Japan.

Effects of S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe) on deficits in a trained delayed response task or trained hand movement tasks after lesions in bilateral dorsolateral prefrontal cortices or the hand-arm area of the unilateral motor cortex in monkeys were studied. Lesions disturbed the delayed response task or hand movement tasks moderately or severely for 1 week to several months depending on the extent of the lesion and nature of the task. Although treatment with small doses of SAMe (10 mg/kg/day, i.m.) had no effect on these disturbances, treatment with moderate doses of SAMe (20 or 30 mg/kg/day, i.m.) reduced impairments and promoted recovery from both disturbances. Pretreatment with SAMe (30 mg/kg/day, i.m.) facilitated recovery from delayed response task deficits due to administration of reserpine (0.3 mg/kg, i.m.) in monkey with bilateral prefrontal cortical lesions, but not in intact monkey. The data suggest that SAMe improves recovery from behavioral disturbances due to brain damage, and this is partly due to increased monoamine turnover rate.

PMID: 3678425 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*****

Drugs. 1994 Aug;48(2):137-52. Related Articles, Links

The clinical potential of ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine) in neurological disorders.

Bottiglieri T, Hyland K, Reynolds EH.

Metabolic Disease Center, Baylor Research Institute, Dallas, Texas.

This review focuses on the biochemical and clinical aspects of methylation in neuropsychiatric disorders and the clinical potential of their treatment with ademetionine (S-adenosylmethionine; SAMe). SAMe is required in numerous transmethylation reactions involving nucleic acids, proteins, phospholipids, amines and other neurotransmitters. The synthesis of SAMe is intimately linked with folate and vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) metabolism, and deficiencies of both these vitamins have been found to reduce CNS SAMe concentrations. Both folate and vitamin B12 deficiency may cause similar neurological and psychiatric disturbances including depression, dementia, myelopathy and peripheral neuropathy. SAMe has a variety of pharmacological effects in the CNS, especially on monoamine neurotransmitter metabolism and receptor systems. SAMe has antidepressant properties, and preliminary studies indicate that it may improve cognitive function in patients with dementia. Treatment with methyl donors (betaine, methionine and SAMe) is associated with remyelination in patients with inborn errors of folate and C-1 (one-carbon) metabolism. These studies support a current theory that impaired methylation may occur by different mechanisms in several neurological and psychiatric disorders.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Academic

PMID: 7527320 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*****

Psychopharmacol Bull. 1990;26(2):249-53. Related Articles, Links

S-adenosyl-L-methionine (SAM) in adults with ADHD, RS: preliminary results from an open trial.

Shekim WO, Antun F, Hanna GL, McCracken JT, Hess EB.

Neuropsychiatric Institute, University of California, Los Angeles 90024-6967.

The psychostimulants d-amphetamine and methylphenidate are thought to be the most effective treatment in children, adolescents, and adults with attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) because they potentiate both dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) at the synaptic cleft. These medications are not free from side effects and controversy. Newer effective and safe treatments are needed. S-Adenosyl-L-methionine (SAM), the active form of methionine, acts as a methyl donor and is involved in many metabolic pathways. It has beta adrenergic and DA receptor agonist activity. We have been using oral SAM in a sample of well-diagnosed adults with ADHD, residual state (RS) in a 4-week open trial to establish SAM effectiveness and safety and in a 9-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover trial. Preliminary data from the open trial reveal that 75 percent (6 out of 8 male) patients improve on it. The 2 who did not improve had not improved on methylphenidate trial. Improvement ranged from moderate to marked, with minimal and transient side effects that did not interfere with functioning.

PMID: 2236465 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*****

Biochem Soc Trans. 2006 Apr;34(Pt 2):330-3. Related Articles, Links

S-Adenosylmethionine: jack of all trades and master of everything?

Loenen WA.

Department of Toxicogenetics, Division 5, Leiden University Medical
Centre, Building 2, T-03-011, Einthovenweg, Leiden, The Netherlands.

SAM (S-adenosylmethionine, also known as AdoMet) is well known as the
methyl donor for the majority of methyltransferases that modify DNA,
RNA, histones and other proteins, dictating replicational,
transcriptional and translational fidelity, mismatch repair, chromatin
modelling, epigenetic modifications and imprinting, which are all
topics of great interest and importance in cancer research and aging.
In total, 15 superfamilies of SAM-binding proteins have been
identified, with many additional functions varying from methylation of
phospholipids and small molecules such as arsenic to synthesis of
polyamines or radical formation. SAM is regenerated from demethylated
SAM via the methionine cycle, which involves folate. Imbalance of this
cycle in humans, e.g. through folate shortage via dietary
insufficiency, alcohol abuse, arsenic poisoning or hereditary factors,
leads to depletion of SAM and human disease. In addition to its role as
a methyl donor to modification enzymes that protect bacterial DNA
against cognate restriction, SAM also serves as a co-factor for
nucleases such as the type I restriction enzyme EcoKI, which is unable
to restrict DNA in the absence of SAM. Finally, on a completely
different tack, SAM can bind to certain RNA structures called
riboswitches that control transcription or translation. In this way,
expression of multiple genes can be regulated in a SAM-dependent
manner, an unexpected finding that opens up new avenues into gene
control. This minireview discusses some of these diverse and amazing
roles of this small metabolite.

PMID: 16545107 [PubMed - in process]

[cmorera]

your use of MD(M)A, cocaine and mushrooms is considered novice use (1-9 uses). Only a smallish percentage of novice users experiance mood and cognitive (depression 33%, mood fluctuations 38%, anxiety 32%, poor concentration 19%, memory problems 19% and so on) problems*.

Steve have you had your blood biochemistry taken. You blood biochemistry will show if there are any physiological irregularities. If your doctor is aware of your use he may also want to have a look at blood values.

Could the years of marijuana use have an effect on my mood and cognitive function?



What would the test be exactly?

the test will be something a doctor cannot effectively diagnose (or wont actually). you probably have drug related depression, and if your feeling your life is not up to par, thats proof enough.


step up your exercise, maybe try this to reverse anything you think has happened?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Rimonabant

in short, yes


i dont think there is a blood test for more brain disorders though ... if anything you could get a SPECT scan to analyse your brain, thats like a few grand tho

[luv2increase]

your use of MD(M)A, cocaine and mushrooms is considered novice use (1-9 uses). Only a smallish percentage of novice users experiance mood and cognitive (depression 33%, mood fluctuations 38%, anxiety 32%, poor concentration 19%, memory problems 19% and so on) problems*.

Steve have you had your blood biochemistry taken. You blood biochemistry will show if there are any physiological irregularities. If your doctor is aware of your use he may also want to have a look at blood values.

Could the years of marijuana use have an effect on my mood and cognitive function?



What would the test be exactly?

the test will be something a doctor cannot effectively diagnose (or wont actually). you probably have drug related depression, and if your feeling your life is not up to par, thats proof enough.


step up your exercise, maybe try this to reverse anything you think has happened?

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Rimonabant

in short, yes


i dont think there is a blood test for more brain disorders though ... if anything you could get a SPECT scan to analyse your brain, thats like a few grand tho

That Rimonabant looks like some harsh stuff. Can you show some research or study pertaining to your reasons for telling him to try Rimonabant?

[hayjay]

Steve

Just an update in case your still reading the thread - after getting back on them for a while I am now off SSRIs again and i have to say that I really dont recommend going on them, they do not offer an improvement. I am currently getting great results on small daily doses of Modafinil (75mg first thing in the morning). It seems to give a better cognitive increase than the Wellbutrin, however the the Wellbutrin will also give you an energy boost if you are having problems with motivation. I think you said earlier though that you were a smoker, so perhaps it is out of the question as you cant be on it and smoke at the same time. Modafinil works within a few hours of taking it, and can be taken a pill at a time as is needed, no need to take every day although its effects are probably better that way, and you can stop any time. I also forgot to mention that I take fish oils every day, and again they have made a big difference, they are totally naturopathic so its worth giving them a try.

The symptoms ive experienced and from what you seem to mention too seem to be most like ADD and mild narcolepsy in their symptoms, and both of those problems are also treated with both fish oils and modafinil effectively, it is only when those conditions are bad that they are then treated with stimulants like ritalin or adderall, niether of which you want to touch as they will only lead to many many more problems, they are not a feasible long-term treatment option, unlike the fish-oils and modafinil.

The fish oils take a long time, up to 3 months of taking them daily, before you get full benefits, so if you said you dislike medications, go on them now and see how you feel as they are just a supplement. If not, then the Wellbutrin or Modafinil is there for you to try, both will not screw you up like SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclics, stimulants or any other of the treatment options out there. Ive been experimenting and trailing on myself now for over 7 years and its the best advice I can give you.

[niner]

There's a lot of misinformation floating around on this thread regarding SSRI's. For example, the idea that they will "take 10 or 20 years off your life" is just nonsense. Many SSRIs do have sexual side effects, but some are better than others. Celexa or Lexapro are pretty good; many people experience no or few sexual side effects with them. Wellbutrin, which is not an SSRI, doesn't have that problem. Celexa/Lexapro and Wellbutrin are also easy to stop. Effexor, an SNRI, may be the source of much of the "hard to stop" talk. It has well known withdrawal symptoms and needs to be tapered out of. Some people have a worse time with it than others. The individual variation in response to all of these drugs is huge, so it's hard to go by one person's advice. Better to see a psychiatrist who is familiar with all of the drugs, and ultimately most people need to experiment. Imminst is a great place to get information about supplements, but when it comes to medications, I would look elsewhere for advice.

[medievil]

"niether of which you want to touch as they will only lead to many many more problems, they are not a feasible long-term treatment option, unlike the fish-oils and modafinil."

those meds have been used many years by many ppl with succes, i'm curieus how you came to the conclusion they are not good for long term treatment?
i agree modafinil is better as it shows a neuroprotective effect and doesnt seem to curb apetite

"but when it comes to medications, I would look elsewhere for advice."
i agree, ppl here have alot of knowledge, altough there does seem to be a bias against medication

[the steve]

Steve

Just an update in case your still reading the thread - after getting back on them for a while I am now off SSRIs again and i have to say that I really dont recommend going on them, they do not offer an improvement.  I am currently getting great results on small daily doses of Modafinil (75mg first thing in the morning).  It seems to give a better cognitive increase than the Wellbutrin, however the the Wellbutrin will also give you an energy boost if you are having problems with motivation.  I think you said earlier though that you were a smoker, so perhaps it is out of the question as you cant be on it and smoke at the same time.  Modafinil works within a few hours of taking it, and can be taken a pill at a time as is needed, no need to take every day although its effects are probably better that way, and you can stop any time.  I also forgot to mention that I take fish oils every day, and again they have made a big difference, they are totally naturopathic so its worth giving them a try. 

The symptoms ive experienced and from what you seem to mention too seem to be most like ADD and mild narcolepsy in their symptoms, and both of those problems are also treated with both fish oils and modafinil effectively, it is only when those conditions are bad that they are then treated with stimulants like ritalin or adderall, niether of which you want to touch as they will only lead to many many more problems, they are not a feasible long-term treatment option, unlike the fish-oils and modafinil.

The fish oils take a long time, up to 3 months of taking them daily, before you get full benefits, so if you said you dislike medications, go on them now and see how you feel as they are just a supplement.  If not, then the Wellbutrin or Modafinil is there for you to try, both will not screw you up like SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclics, stimulants or any other of the treatment options out there.  Ive been experimenting and trailing on myself now for over 7 years and its the best advice I can give you.

I'm not a smoker anymore, I quit about 7 months ago.

Anyway, my doc prescribed me wellbutrin and I've been taking it for about 2 weeks now. Haven't noticed much improvement but I know it can 4 weeks to notice effects. For the first week I took 150mg a day and now I'm at 300mg a day.

I've been taking fish oil for about a year now. It does help somewhat though not as noticeable as it used to be.

I've read about modafinil and am interested in it. If Wellbutrin offers little to no relief in the next couple of months then I may ask my doctoer about modafinil and if it could help me. I will also probably see a sleep specialist to check out my sleep patterns/beta waves if Wellbutrin doesn't help