55 replies to this topic

[Liquidus]

I think the real question is not does god drive a flying saucer, but rather, does the flying saucer drive the concept of god?

[william7]

You're probably thinking of the Heavens Gate cult.

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" in the above context would refer to the Jonestown Massacre.

There are a couple of idiomatic uses of the phrase:

Thanks for this info! I'm still reading around in the links Wikipedia provided to find out exactly what the Heavens Gate cult's beliefs and practices were. I'm looking around to see whether they practiced any of the Bible's Old Testament Laws such as the seventh day Sabbath and other Holy Days God gave Moses to give to the Israelites so all of humanity would eventually come to be blessed through them along with the teachings of Christ.

The one, most obviously false tenet of their doctrine, was their belief that they could predict when Jesus Christ would return to set up the kingdom of God on earth. The Bible clearly teaches that this is to be a surprise coming and man is not to know the exact time of His return. See Matthew 24:36-37; Acts 1:6-7. Another error was the unique twist on the unbiblical rapture idea - usually taught by protestant evangelicals - that the chosen or elect will be removed from the earth and taken to heaven before Jesus returns in wrath to destroy the wicked. See, for example, http://www.gnmagazin...n27/rapture.htm.

The tragedy that occurred with the Heavens Gate cult's misinterpretation of the Scriptures is just another good reason why accurate Bible teaching and practice is so desperately needed. People need to prepare for Christ's return by putting His teachings - along with God's Law - into the fullest possible practice in communal settings - without privately held property or systems of money - with the intent of living a long and happy life on earth.

[Live Forever]

The tragedy that occurred with the Heavens Gate cult's misinterpretation of the Scriptures is just another good reason why accurate Bible teaching and practice is so desperately needed.

1) I am sure you would find several hundred different groups that have different interpretations of the Bible that would agree with this statement. Why do you feel that your interpretation is the correct one? (Remember: they have studied it just as much as you, and are just as sure that their interpretation is correct)
2) Even if you could reconcile #1 for the most part (and leaving aside if Christianity/the Bible is true compared to the other hundreds of religions), how on earth do you believe this aliens/Jesus connection that you just recently made? I'm sorry, elijah, but that just makes you start to sound like a kook or cult or something. Assuming you are trying to spread your message and/or win people over, I would make a suggestion to you not to bring that up when you are explaining what you believe to new people.

[Aegist]

UFO's certainly exist. Every object not on the ground which hasn't been identified is a UFO.

Aliens might exist.

The existence of Aliens has very little impact on the existence of a God being.

I am very open to the idea that our stories of God(s) and various cultural heritages come from aliens in our past, much like Stargate. I doubt it is true, but I see no reason why it couldn't be possible.

Demon Haunted World was an awesome book; Elijah, read it.

[william7]

how on earth do you believe this aliens/Jesus connection that you just recently made?

I just believe God operates through much superior technology than ours and flying saucers are the means He, His angels, and the others in Heaven get around. Others have been suggesting this for a long time now. I don't believe understanding whether God drives a flying saucer or not is anything of significance. Studying the Scriptures and putting them into practice to the fullest is what's most important.

I'm sorry, elijah, but that just makes you start to sound like a kook or cult or something.

I'm not worried about it. My religious beliefs as they are already make me sound like a kook to many. As brainbox said earlier in this thread, we all got our kooky side. Have you ever heard that the early Christian Church started out at was considered to be a cult called the "Way"? Acts 24:14. They were small group and were persecuted because their beliefs and teachings were different from the mainstream.

So when are you and Aegist going to join the Way and start a Bible based communal society around Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula when global warming makes it too hot and water becomes scarce as scientists are predicting will happen?

[william7]

Aliens might exist.

The existence of Aliens has very little impact on the existence of a God being.

I am very open to the idea that our stories of God(s) and various cultural heritages come from aliens in our past, much like Stargate. I doubt it is true, but I see no reason why it couldn't be possible.

I can't see how you can be opened minded to the possibility of aliens and not be open minded to the possibility of a creator God. This is clearly illogical. Might it not be possible that the aliens you believe might exist created the universe, the earth and all living things in it, and are still working on their creation?

Demon Haunted World was an awesome book; Elijah, read it.

Sounds like an occult or horror story. Is it clearly labeled as fiction?

[Live Forever]

So when are you and Aegist going to join the Way and start a Bible based communal society around Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula when global warming makes it too hot and water becomes scarce as scientists are predicting will happen?

Hmm, let me think for a second.......never!


(of course I can't speak for Aegist)

[william7]

Hmm, let me think for a second.......never!

You'll burn in you no where if you don't. Think about it. I'm glad Aegist is giving it some thought.

[Live Forever]

Hmm, let me think for a second.......never!

You'll burn in you no where if you don't. Think about it.

I'll burn from global warming or because I'll be in hell? If you mean from global warming, I certainly don't think a Bible based anything is required to find water to drink and/or to keep cool, and if you mean hell, then I don't believe such a place exists.

[william7]

I'll burn from global warming or because I'll be in hell?

Just joking. There's no tortuous hell like the Catholic and protestant churches teach. But I can't promise you, you won't burn or suffer some other type of harm as a result of global warming. Being in the South you're in a bad spot too.

[Live Forever]

I'll burn from global warming or because I'll be in hell?

Just joking. There's no tortuous hell like the Catholic and protestant churches teach. But I can't promise you, you won't burn or suffer some other type of harm as a result of global warming. Being in the South you're in a bad spot too.

Perhaps. If it gets too bad, I'll move to Canada or something. )

[Aegist]

Pfft. Haven't you people seen the Day After Tomorrow? Global warming doesn't cause the Earth to burn. It causes an Ice Age!

[Zarrka]

UFO's... i think most of them can be explained through psychology honestly. and the idea that many of them are consistant experiences has been linked to various movie releases.

It sounds odd, but there was a great study done on descriptions of alien sightings and television shows / movies. they basicially showed that as the movies incresed in complexity and graphics, and as more variations of alien models became avalible, so did the complexity and variety of alien sources, but never outside the basic description of the tube screen. Id like to find this study.

Many other sightings have been directly linked to cosmological phenomena thats very explanable, but shows exacly why people saw what they saw. Untill i see a real scar, and a bit of unexplained metal in someones head, alien abductions are going to remain in this basket as well. (for me).

As for the comunity living back from the ground near a big water source, that sounds like a lot of fun =) as long as we can still have the net. I dont mind communal living at all.

[william7]

Here's the video on the UFO conference in Washington last month.

[Shannon Vyff]

You know I've avoided this thread when I saw it before, but I'm glad I read through, so funny!

[missminni]

You know I've avoided this thread when I saw it before, but I'm glad I read through, so funny!

I never saw it before, but that cnn report reminded me of my ufo experience and I figured
it might be interesting in light of it...
I was at Rhode Island School of Design on November 9th, 1965 watching
the sunset from the balcony of our refectory. After the sun went down I saw 6 sets of lights that appeared to be in formation
appearing static in the sky. They just appeared there from nowhere. They were in a straight line equal distance from one another.
I couldn't imagine what they were, maybe helicopters was all I could think because they weren't moving. I called it to the attention
of my friends and as we all
looked at them wondering, the lights, in unison, rose straight up in the air...and then suddenly in the midst of their ascent
made a sharp 90 degree right turn all at the same exact moment and disappeared in the direction of Boston, due north.
Within seconds all the lights in the city went out. It was the Northeast Blackout, that went from Ontario to New Jersey.
We all thought they must have flown over a power station just north of us and shorted it out or something,
because we knew one was in that area, but the explanation given for that blackout didn't back it up.
I still think thats what caused the blackout, or what a coincidence.

Edited by missminni, 20 December 2007 - 04:09 AM.

[Shannon Vyff]

I have a long history with aliens, saw them when I was young (UFO's on 5 occasions, plus beings), believed in them--studied all I could find out as a teen, came to rest at an open 'could be possible' stance.

[missminni]

I have a long history with aliens, saw them when I was young (UFO's on 5 occasions, plus beings), believed in them--studied all I could find out as a teen, came to rest at an open 'could be possible' stance.

Please tell my about the beings you saw.
I was very into it as a teen also. Remember that Betty Hill abduction? It was so compelling. I've
had few dreams that I've often wondered about. Especially the childhood ones. Very strange physical
sensations before they would occur. buzzing and stuff. anyway, please share your experiences.
I am so interested.

[zoolander]

since a few have been posting videos I would like to post a few videos as my answer/reply

First re. what I believe about aliens and UFO's

and this is what I think of your scriptures and the Bible

[Alien65]

GENESIS 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. (NKJV)

The bible is mythology that probably has some basis in fact. Man is an anomaly in the theory of evolution. One of the Gods that most religious people worship may have come in a flying saucer and interfered with the natural evolutionary process. That might explain what a horrible mutation we are and how insane our planet seems to be.

[rippinit]

how on earth do you believe this aliens/Jesus connection that you just recently made?

I just believe God operates through much superior technology than ours and flying saucers are the means He, His angels, and the others in Heaven get around. Others have been suggesting this for a long time now. I don't believe understanding whether God drives a flying saucer or not is anything of significance. Studying the Scriptures and putting them into practice to the fullest is what's most important.

I'm sorry, elijah, but that just makes you start to sound like a kook or cult or something.

I'm not worried about it. My religious beliefs as they are already make me sound like a kook to many. As brainbox said earlier in this thread, we all got our kooky side. Have you ever heard that the early Christian Church started out at was considered to be a cult called the "Way"? Acts 24:14. They were small group and were persecuted because their beliefs and teachings were different from the mainstream.

So when are you and Aegist going to join the Way and start a Bible based communal society around Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula when global warming makes it too hot and water becomes scarce as scientists are predicting will happen?

Scriptures (whether you believe them or not) support the idea that God's creation ostensibly includes angels and fallen angels. Both groups are implied to have incredible vessels at their disposal. Satan is referred to as the Prince of the Power of Air in the Bible (strange term to be invented back in the days when chariots were by far the most advanced vehicles). Chariots of fire were described as invisible to most in the OT when Elisha was pursued by the Syrian army (even in the OT and before Islam Middle Eastern groups were persecuting the Jews as foretold in Genesis).

The physics of it all.

Contemporary science attests that UFOs from other galaxies are impossible. But, there are obvious cover ups of what many believe are UFOs.

Recently, the standard atomic theory was turned on its head after quantum science discovered that sub-atomic particles have properties of non-locality. Particles can occupy more than one space at a time! Another way to describe this property is that sub-atomic particles have holographic properties. Those that were beginning to hope for and think that a GUT (grand unified theory) was close to discovery were extremely disappointed by such recent discoveries.

http://www.quantized....com/cosmic.htm

A digitized universe that is variable rather than constant. Then there is that...

Science is still not even close to having enough information to explain variable time-space, the realization that there are 10 dimensions or more, or how the DNA of life also has digital properties. So is there room for a fantastic explanation? I think so.


Red sea crossing and the Mt Sinai (in Midian/Saudi Arabia)

video:Search For The Real Mt Sinai

Mt. Sinai, Moses & the Exodus

Edited by rippinit, 30 January 2008 - 04:09 PM.

[william7]

Science is still not even close to having enough information to explain variable time-space, the realization that there are 10 dimensions or more, or how the DNA of life also has digital properties. So is there room for a fantastic explanation? I think so.

Nice to have another believer aboard. You and Alien65 should checkout the thread, at http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=19491, if you haven't seen it already.

[Shannon Vyff]

I have a long history with aliens, saw them when I was young (UFO's on 5 occasions, plus beings), believed in them--studied all I could find out as a teen, came to rest at an open 'could be possible' stance.

Please tell my about the beings you saw.
I was very into it as a teen also. Remember that Betty Hill abduction? It was so compelling. I've
had few dreams that I've often wondered about. Especially the childhood ones. Very strange physical
sensations before they would occur. buzzing and stuff. anyway, please share your experiences.
I am so interested.

I watched the National Geographic special tonight with Peter Jennings on UFO's, it was fun--went over the history and such, nothing I had not heard--was interesting to see the plea for more official attention, through the 'air of being official'.

Now, I tell my children that I used to believe in Aliens, in fact my childhood friends, now adults tell my children that they believed in aliens because of their mom's stories. I don't remember them all, in fact when I was a child I'd talk about the beings--say what they looked like, what they said to me (it was my understanding that they were from the future, and there were different races, I was quite an imaginative child )--but now I have no memory of beings at all. The only memories I have that are vivid, are nebulous... I remember discovering lost time at an early age. Waking up outside, or when I was a teen and at boarding school--waking up in the bathroom of the floor below my floor and having to go outside (there was snow on the ground) and up the stair to enter in the commons room, then my room and noticing that the alarm clock's green time was 3:15, and when I'd gone to the bathroom it was 12:15 (I was not doing any drugs, nor was drinking). When I was in my early twenties I, and my husband remember strange things---our dog barking at the sliding glass doors of our third story master bedroom suite (this was when I lived on 40 acres, 20 miles outside of Eugene) he remembered waking up and not being able to move, and me not being in the bed--with the sliding glass door open. I remember being afraid at times (I'd read a lot of books about UFOs in my teens, and thought that I'd been upducted as a child and was worried that they'd want to abduct me while I was pregnant--because that is a pattern that follows other abductees experiences), and I have a clear memory of once hearing/feeling a spaceship (it triggered a memory, I 'knew what it was' I've never heard anything else like it--it reverberated, whooshed, hard to explain).

So, thats about it--I slept walk as a child and teen, then outgrew as an adult. I had a vivid imagination, I likely made up stories to impress my friends (I did this about other subjects, convincingly) . My husband had a nightmare or 'waking terror' a common condition where you are 'aware' while sleeping. My dog barked when there were deer, or the occasional mountain lion. My fear can be explained by the crazy hormones of pregnancy, I'd vacillate between extreme emotions easily. The noise, could have been the train in the valley echoing off the misty hills in a different way than it did any other day of my 8 years there.

I don't have any actual memories of beings or UFO ships. Yes, I've entertained that they could have been erased, when my childhood friends, now adults are incredulous...but I doubt it, I really could get people to believe just about anything when I was a kid-I was very well read (read college level at age 7) and an only child, very prone to making my own stories. When looking at all the other evidence (mainly eye-witness accounts) I think there could be beings out there, but we don't have any official acknowledgment or evidence provided from our governments--we have no 'contact'. I do not discount all witnesses as merely hysteria or modern mythology, yet I concede that could be all that it is. I've had close family and friends tell me their stories of seeing UFO's, I know there are many things that could be misconstrued as a UFO, things that are military projects or acts of nature.

All I have are stories that others tell me, I told them. I have memories of some vivid unusual situations, and things I thought were true at one time. I outgrew my belief in Santa Clause, God, the Tooth Fairy--earlier, and I've only kept the possibility of aliens open because there are billions of solar systems, and an extremely unfathomable amount of time before our own emergence into sentience as humans--it seems likely only from the vast numbers involved--maybe we'll know for sure if we live long enough--but I certainly don't think the at most a hundred or so years we are alloted, are enough. If we don't see actual evidence of aliens in the next few decades I'll be living (I'm 32, I'm gonna hope for 80 at least ) but if cryonics works (or the smaller chance that aging will be ended in the next 70 years, with the help of A.G.I or unforeseen wild-card advances) and I get several thousand years--I'd think if I lived for a 100,000 years and there is no evidence by then--I may feel strongly that there are no other sentient beings in the universe, but you'd have to ask me then .

[rippinit]

http://www.quantized....com/cosmic.htm
So secular scientists now view the universe as having some sort of holographic property as well as variable time...



http://www.khouse.or...icles/2006/658/
excerpt:
Informational Properties

The hologram exhibits some very profound properties beyond the three-dimensional image. In fact, it is one of the most profound means to distribute information throughout a given media. All of the information it contains is distributed over the entire image surface. One can remove a portion of the hologram without losing the image! Drill a hole in the hologram, and one can still view the entire object by simply moving one’s eye to a more convenient angle (some resolution, or sharpness, will be lost however). Cut the film into pieces, and each piece contains the complete image.³

An engineer who is designing a communication system in anticipation of hostile jamming, or other countermeasures, needs to employ several critical techniques to be effective. In addition to taking advantage of available error detection and correction techniques, he will also attempt to spread his message throughout the available bandwidth. He will avoid clustering his message into areas which would increase his vulnerability to jamming or interference.

It is provocative to notice that the Biblical text evidences these same techniques. Where is the chapter on baptism? Or salvation? Or any specific critical doctrine? Every major theme is spread throughout the 66 books making up the total message. There is no concentration of any critical element in any single location. One can tear out a surprising number of pages and still not lose visibility of the essential message. (Some resolution or clarity would be lost, however.) This design intent of distributing the vital elements throughout the entire message system is even highlighted by Isaiah:

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: - Isaiah 28:9,10

[Alien65]

Please see my post here:

http://www.imminst.o...rt=#entry221962

[rippinit]

Please see my post here:

http://www.imminst.o...rt=#entry221962

Check. Great experience. I have heard of similar instances.