1084 replies to this topic

[rabagley]

I thought it was funny that the mice were put on a unhealthy diet composed of HIGH fat. However, since Res is soluble in fat in probably increased the absorbption of res thus negating the effects a high fat diet.

Just my 2 cents...

Um, high fat diets are not unhealthy. In fact, they're a crapload healthier than low-fat diets.

High fat diets usually correspond to lower serum fat levels and lower levels of adipose fat (primarily due to reduced insulin levels). Even more interesting, people with more saturated fat in their diet tend to have less saturated fat in their bloodstream than those who limit their intake of saturated fat and fats in general. "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes has a hundred pages of references from study after study showing that fat is not your enemy, simple carbs are. One datapoint: there is not a single study showing that saturated fat increases the risk of mortality, and even studies intended to show how bad saturated fat is usually show the exact opposite or no correlation.

I broke a 48 hour fast two weeks ago with a 12oz glass of heavy cream (94% of calories from fat). Over the past eight weeks, I've lost 23 lbs on a high fat, low carb diet. My double chin is gone, my belly fat is disappearing, my wife keeps dragging me into the bedroom and savaging me...

Cholesterol hasn't changed dramatically yet. I'm expecting a rise in HDL cholesterol about two months after my weight stabilizes. I'll also restart niacin after the weight's gone and I'm in the subsequent building phase which should push HDL up further. Triglycerides are falling slowly (it should take a year to see the full effect) and my LDL particle size is also slowly improving (though it wasn't horrible to begin with).

If resveratrol is soluble in milk fat, woot! Dietary fat ftw!

[scorpe]

So does this mean no more vodka, miralax, lecithin experiments... All we need is some whey protein and buttermilk? If so I will be so overjoyed. Just throw my resveratrol in with my morning protein shake (breakfast) and im good to go, no laborious prep work needed? Note also that plasma albumin, which the French article mentions resveratrol binds to is very close in structure to egg whites so maybe we could whip up a res-omelette?

I was under the impression before that proteins were a no no to take with plant based supplements, green tea, polyphenols, flavoniods, resveratrol etc. and any binding that would occur between said proteins and plant compounds would have a negative effect on absorption????

edit: clarity

You definitely nailed it Maxwatt. I'm jazzed that this may work. I always liked taking my resveratrol with milk and now it looks like this might be the way to go (after DMSO/Res belly rubs that is).

I seems that my breakfast which I take already for years with jogert, lecitine powder, musli, fresh pomegranate/ananas and fresh grape fruit juice is a nice foundation as also my resv. is taken with my breakfast.

Edited by scorpe, 21 December 2007 - 09:26 AM.

[edward]

*** Ok so here is a question, In particular, Maxwatt, Niner, Lucid and all those educated or self educated in biochemistry what do you think (anybody else also I need as much input as I can get as to me this is a big deal) ***

Previously I have been taking my Resveratrol Stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it) bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed etc. etc.) on an empty stomach... Then going to workout and taking a shower to give me roughly an hour of digestion time to allow my stomach to empty... before eating my breakfast which is usually a whey protein shake with sometimes berries and or Now green phyto foods powder... so

Is it logical just to throw my whole Res stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it), bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.) in the blender with my Whey and chug?

Do you see any problems with the other things such as green tea, grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.

A. Preventing Res binding to the Whey or

B. Being themselves reduced in bioavailability due to the Whey and the fact that I am now taking things not on a technically empty stomach? (Worst of all, then I'm wasting my money and an already successful program as evidenced by blood tests will be made less successful)

But I would so love just to throw everything in the blender with the Whey... That would make things much easier on my schedule and my taste buds

edit: html

Edited by edward, 21 December 2007 - 10:29 PM.

[health_nutty]

I have the same question Edward.

[health_nutty]

B. Being themselves reduced in bioavailability due to the Whey and the fact that I am now taking things not on a technically empty stomach? (Worst of all, then I'm wasting my money and an already successful program as evidenced by blood tests will be made less successful)
<font size="1">edit: htm</font>l

Are these your own blood tests?

[maxwatt]

*** Ok so here is a question, In particular, Maxwatt, Niner, Lucid and all those educated or self educated in biochemistry what do you think (anybody else also I need as much input as I can get as to me this is a big deal) ***

Previously I have been taking my Resveratrol Stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it) bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed etc. etc.) on an empty stomach... Then going to workout and taking a shower to give me roughly an hour of digestion time to allow my stomach to empty... before eating my breakfast which is usually a whey protein shake with sometimes berries and or Now green phyto foods powder... so

Is it logical just to throw my whole Res stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it), bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.) in the blender with my Whey and chug?

Do you see any problems with the other things such as green tea, grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.

A. Preventing Res binding to the Whey or

B. Being themselves reduced in bioavailability due to the Whey and the fact that I am now taking things not on a technically empty stomach? (Worst of all, then I'm wasting my money and an already successful program as evidenced by blood tests will be made less successful)

But I would so love just to throw everything in the blender with the Whey... That would make things much easier on my schedule and my taste buds

<font size="1">edit: html</font>

The most serious problem would be the taste, and if the fish oil repeats on you during the workout it could be unpleasant. I suspect some of htese things, particularly the luteolin, improve the bioavailability of resveratrol. Quercetin is possibly an exception. Though it may prevent glucoronidation of resveratrol, one of its metabolites inhibits Sirt1.

[edward]

The most serious problem would be the taste, and if the fish oil repeats on you during the workout it could be unpleasant. I suspect some of htese things, particularly the luteolin, improve the bioavailability of resveratrol. Quercetin is possibly an exception. Though it may prevent glucoronidation of resveratrol, one of its metabolites inhibits Sirt1.

So you don't think the Whey would inhibit the absorption of the other compounds aside from resveratrol (ie the nutrients that supposedly absorb better on an empty stomach, note I also take piracetam, choline and a multivitamin at this time)

[missminni]

deleted

Edited by missminni, 22 December 2007 - 01:18 AM.

[edward]

can I get a quick explanation of how t-res differs from res.
i just read this comment on another thread and realized I didn't
know there was a distinction.
http://www.imminst.o...o...c=19519&hl=

edward:
According to some (I think Biotest started this) T-Res reduces estrogen or acts as an estrogen antagonist...supposedly. Though I and some others on here have found articles that show that T-Res is actually an agonist under certain circumstances so I dont know. I took 6 oxo for a little while and it made me aggressive... Btw its cheap at bulknutrition they sell generic in bulk.

The molecule know as Resveratrol has two Isomers cis and trans. Basically they appear equivalent in a chemical equation but in a structural or molecular diagram the elements in the atoms are arranged differently... The important thing is the Trans isomer is active in humans and the Cis isomer is inactive. Because we don't really have a standard way or refering to "Resveratrol the active variety" some people will say Res other T-Res or Resv or T-Resv etc. I sometimes type Res sometimes T-Res... sorry for the confusion (we are talking about the same thing)

edit: spelling, grammar

Edited by edward, 22 December 2007 - 12:59 AM.

[edward]

B. Being themselves reduced in bioavailability due to the Whey and the fact that I am now taking things not on a technically empty stomach? (Worst of all, then I'm wasting my money and an already successful program as evidenced by blood tests will be made less successful)
<font size="1">edit: htm</font>l

Are these your own blood tests?

Referring to lab values from my doctor, cholesterol, hormones, blood pressure, resting heartrate, bodyfat percentage etc etc. everything is really good right now (better than a year ago, though it wasnt bad before its just better now, though I can't attribute it to one thing since I have made so many changes in the past year) so I am hesitant to make a big change right now... as I have been very militant about taking my morning supplement cocktail on an empty stomach and waiting a good hour before eating, so throwing everything into a Whey protein shake would be a big change in terms of how things are absorbed and I dont want to inhibit the absorption of other things all for the sake of increasing Res bioavailability a little bit... and making things more convenient.

edit: clarity

Edited by edward, 22 December 2007 - 12:57 AM.

[niner]

*** Ok so here is a question, In particular, Maxwatt, Niner, Lucid and all those educated or self educated in biochemistry what do you think (anybody else also I need as much input as I can get as to me this is a big deal) ***

Previously I have been taking my Resveratrol Stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it) bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed etc. etc.) on an empty stomach... Then going to workout and taking a shower to give me roughly an hour of digestion time to allow my stomach to empty... before eating my breakfast which is usually a whey protein shake with sometimes berries and or Now green phyto foods powder... so

Is it logical just to throw my whole Res stack (Resveratrol, lecithin, fish oil, quercetin, (luteolin when I get it), bioperine, green tea, vitamin c, activin grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.) in the blender with my Whey and chug?

Do you see any problems with the other things such as green tea, grape seed, milk thistle etc. etc.

A. Preventing Res binding to the Whey or

B. Being themselves reduced in bioavailability due to the Whey and the fact that I am now taking things not on a technically empty stomach? (Worst of all, then I'm wasting my money and an already successful program as evidenced by blood tests will be made less successful)

But I would so love just to throw everything in the blender with the Whey... That would make things much easier on my schedule and my taste buds

I can think of one advantage; having some food on board may help your workout, assuming it's not a huge shake. If you feel like it's too much to eat before your workout, you could split it and have some after. There's been a lot of ballyhoo regarding polyphenols getting bound up by proteins, but the consensus is starting to look like that's not such a big problem. The theory behind taking resveratrol on an empty stomach has to do with swamping the gut metabolic enzymes. Resveratrol is sulfated and glucuronidated not only in the liver but also in the gut. In a gut model consisting of a layer of CACO2 cells (which is not a terrifically bad model, btw) it was found that the metabolic enzymes could be swamped by high concentrations of resveratrol. So, assuming the whole swamping hypothesis is legit, is the whey going to slow things down enough to be a problem? A whey shake seems like something that would transit relatively quickly, so it's probably not going to represent a big problem. As for resveratrol complexing with the beta lactoglobulin in the whey, if it forms a 1:1 complex as described in the French paper, I don't think this is going to be that big of a deal, because you'd need 80 grams of BLG for every gram of resveratrol. I don't know about other proteins and their ability to bind resveratrol, which may or may not be significant. Your stack looks pretty good to me. Maxwatt mentioned a concern with the quercetin; this has bothered a lot of people, so I'll put my two cents in on it. Unconjugated quercetin is a SIRT activator in vitro. People were wondering why it didn't work in a cell-based system, and the explanation was that it is conjugated very rapidly, and the glucuronidate is not only inactive, but it is weakly inhibiting. The key here is that it is only a weak inhibitor, the original point mainly being that it was inactive. It is, on the other hand, an extremely potent inhibitor of sulfation. It should therefore be quite helpful in improving the bioavailability of resveratrol. I think that the bioavailability enhancement should more than compensate for the weak inhibition. Niacinamide is a fairly potent SIRT inhibitor, and a lot of people take that. (I'm even getting 20 mg in a mix that I take for other reasons, though I'm meaning to do something about it.)

So, to make a long story longer, I think the worst case scenario for taking the SIRT mix in your shake is that you maybe knock a bit off the bioavailability. For the improvement in lifestyle and hassle reduction that you gain, I think it would be worth it. You could always just take ten or twenty percent more resveratrol. Another option would be to pick a different time of day, a few hours after a meal, to take it. That's what I do. I've taken my resveratrol cocktail either in the late afternoon or, especially now that it really is a cocktail, what with the grain alcohol in it, I take it several hours after dinner.

[Darth Hack]

I have been trolling this list for months and taking resveratrol. The DMSO posts like hedgehog's have really gotten me thinking about and searching for transdermal solutions.

DMSO seems to have a lot of side effects (negative ones too). Side effects that low dosage resveratrol users might be able to avoid, but anyone taking many grams a day will be affected. Has anyone heard of or used Phlojel instead? The bodybuilding community seems to use this stuff for transdermal drug delivery (think testosterone).

Speaking of bodybuilding I found a bodybuilder supplements company that sells a 200 mg "pure" resveratrol pill (I assume this means 98% or 99%) that is preformulated with a transdermal delivery system. The name is of their product is Res-V (spelled with the dash). You can find this item at t-nation.com (I couldn't find Res-V with a google search). On their forum they show someone splitting open one of these capsules and rubbing the gel that was inside onto their hands where it was completely absorbed. They also provide a nice bit of dosing info.

It's best to take one large dose of resveratrol, instead of several smaller doses, because of the way it's metabolized. In essence, you want to overwhelm the body's ability to inactivate and excrete resveratrol, which is done through sulfation and glucuronidation (adding sulfate and beta-glucuronide groups). This "overwhelming" process is accomplished at about 200 mg taken in one shot.

Also does anyone know anything about the 100 mg resveratrol patches sold at redwinepatch.com?


Best,
Darth Hack

I have not started using Res, but i finally ordered some from a GMP certified lab. I'm very interested in the absorption issues.

I noticed people having been using DMSO. Which is a great carrier but dangerous one as it can take not just Res into your body but many other molecules. If you are using DMSO as a carrier agent make sure your skin is clean and free of chemicals. As for the ethanol I was going to try this one once I obtain my Res.

I noticed that Res has a very low solubility in water, a little higher in DMSO and even higher in ethanol. see wikipedia.

Solubility in water

0.03 g/L

Solubility in DMSO

16 g/L

Solubility in ethanol

50 g/L

There is also a table that states how much res is in each glass of wine. It seems very small compared to how much Res these studies are using? If Res really helps people then either they are drinking a lot of wine or there is something in the wine helping Res enter into the body.

For those of you who are using DMSO do you notice any difference of your skin where you topically apply.


~hedgehog

[tintinet]

What we all really need is some testing of the oral, sub lingual, and trans dermal, etc. methods of delivery and their resultant serum levels of t-resveratrol.

[stochastic]

"Resveratrol interacts with β-LG to form 1:1 complexes." BLG is 18.4 KDa, while resveratrol is 228 Daltons, so for 1 gram of resveratrol you'll need 18,400/228 = 80 grams of the protein. For a 5 gram dose, you're looking at a bit less than a pound of the protein. That's a lot of milk... Might it be the case that resveratrol also binds to other milk proteins? At perhaps greater than 1:1? It should also be solubilized by milk fat, which is already in suspension.

Also, this makes me wonder if human serum albumin is not acting as a carrier protein for resveratrol in the blood. Might that be a mechanism for it to dodge secondary metabolism?

It dissolves well in chai (50% milk) - 12oz + 4g res seems to work fine. The pre made mixes (found in cartons) I've seen, list pepper as the most abundant ingredient besides black tea - perhaps this is helpful, but I am not willing to speculate.

Regarding albumin (in my limited understanding): Given the extreme abundance of albumin in plasma, I too have often wondered what it might be bound with (resveratrol, being one permutation). In many plasma profiling (peptides) studies it is removed using a depletion column since it will swamp all the other signals. Are you aware of work in this area? I've seen good methods for releasing small molecules from plasma proteins, but wasn't sure if anyone looked specifically at albumin. Since I'm mostly algorithm jockey, I'm less familiar with extraction protocols.

I've used lecithin as a carrier too, and a hand blender makes lecithin soluble in about 15 seconds (as a comment to a previous post by maxwatt). I've used chai the last few weeks though - because of convenience.

Without a quantitative measuring stick, I cannot speculate on what is a better carrier. The only option discussed on these boards that I have not attempted is DMSO.

Are there any legal/regulatory issues that prevent a group of people from contracting a lab to analyze a batch of samples? grassroots pharmacokinetics coop? has anyone previously looked at the cost structures for this? I see people extracting their own plasma all the time in the lab - it is much easier than having to muck with IRB approvals, if you just need any ol' blood sample. A 'trained phlebotomist' does not ensure a good stick - in fact I'm sure the labs I've seen aren't the only ones with a few phlebotomist jokes. Some thought would need to be put into the protocols, but I assume most of the important bits are already in the literature - sample collection specifics could be distributed e.g. via a youtube video. The key would be having enough people to make it worthwhile - both statistically, and economically. Set up and tear down of the instruments for different protocols seems to be where the technicians eat up the most labor cost, the auto sampler takes over after that - so setup should be a one time charge split among the number of samples. Solvent and column costs would also be split. Data analysis is simple, if we are only looking for the res peak - depending on the protocol, and availability of the raw data, there may be other peaks of interest that could be extracted too.
Free markets being what they are, I'm sure a suitable lab(s) could be found if there was sufficient interest. Like most people who have played with 99% res, I've invested $1K + thus far and I presume we all have a similar level of confidence in the commentary seen on the web discussing different carriers - and nothing beats knowing which data point you are in the spread when looking at a study
maxwatt, anthony, and others likely have a better handle on the total market for high purity res and thus whether there is a community large enough to support such a coop - dealers might collaborate on distributing study literature to new customers with their order since it would serve a common interest

[niner]

"Resveratrol interacts with β-LG to form 1:1 complexes." BLG is 18.4 KDa, while resveratrol is 228 Daltons, so for 1 gram of resveratrol you'll need 18,400/228 = 80 grams of the protein. For a 5 gram dose, you're looking at a bit less than a pound of the protein. That's a lot of milk... Might it be the case that resveratrol also binds to other milk proteins? At perhaps greater than 1:1? It should also be solubilized by milk fat, which is already in suspension.

Also, this makes me wonder if human serum albumin is not acting as a carrier protein for resveratrol in the blood. Might that be a mechanism for it to dodge secondary metabolism?

It dissolves well in chai (50% milk) - 12oz + 4g res seems to work fine. The pre made mixes (found in cartons) I've seen, list pepper as the most abundant ingredient besides black tea - perhaps this is helpful, but I am not willing to speculate.

Regarding albumin (in my limited understanding): Given the extreme abundance of albumin in plasma, I too have often wondered what it might be bound with (resveratrol, being one permutation). In many plasma profiling (peptides) studies it is removed using a depletion column since it will swamp all the other signals. Are you aware of work in this area? I've seen good methods for releasing small molecules from plasma proteins, but wasn't sure if anyone looked specifically at albumin. Since I'm mostly algorithm jockey, I'm less familiar with extraction protocols.

I've used lecithin as a carrier too, and a hand blender makes lecithin soluble in about 15 seconds (as a comment to a previous post by maxwatt). I've used chai the last few weeks though - because of convenience.

Without a quantitative measuring stick, I cannot speculate on what is a better carrier. The only option discussed on these boards that I have not attempted is DMSO.

Are there any legal/regulatory issues that prevent a group of people from contracting a lab to analyze a batch of samples? grassroots pharmacokinetics coop? has anyone previously looked at the cost structures for this? I see people extracting their own plasma all the time in the lab - it is much easier than having to muck with IRB approvals, if you just need any ol' blood sample. A 'trained phlebotomist' does not ensure a good stick - in fact I'm sure the labs I've seen aren't the only ones with a few phlebotomist jokes. Some thought would need to be put into the protocols, but I assume most of the important bits are already in the literature - sample collection specifics could be distributed e.g. via a youtube video. The key would be having enough people to make it worthwhile - both statistically, and economically. Set up and tear down of the instruments for different protocols seems to be where the technicians eat up the most labor cost, the auto sampler takes over after that - so setup should be a one time charge split among the number of samples. Solvent and column costs would also be split. Data analysis is simple, if we are only looking for the res peak - depending on the protocol, and availability of the raw data, there may be other peaks of interest that could be extracted too.
Free markets being what they are, I'm sure a suitable lab(s) could be found if there was sufficient interest. Like most people who have played with 99% res, I've invested $1K + thus far and I presume we all have a similar level of confidence in the commentary seen on the web discussing different carriers - and nothing beats knowing which data point you are in the spread when looking at a study
maxwatt, anthony, and others likely have a better handle on the total market for high purity res and thus whether there is a community large enough to support such a coop - dealers might collaborate on distributing study literature to new customers with their order since it would serve a common interest

Albumin is well known for sucking up small molecules. The classic tight binder is an anionic hydrophobe. That doesn't describe resveratrol, but resveratrol is bound, and it looks like HSA sucks it up reasonably well. Now this complexifies the resveratrol PK picture... the HSA binding might actually be a good thing, or not; I'll have to look into it further.

J Biomol Struct Dyn. 2006 Dec;24(3):277-83. Links
Resveratrol binding to human serum albumin. N' soukpoe-Kossi CN, St-Louis C, Beauregard M, Subirade M, Carpentier R, Hotchandani S, Tajmir-Riahi HA.
Département de Chimie-biologie, Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières, C. P. 500, Trois-Rivières, Québec, G9A 5H7, Canada.

Resveratrol (Res), a polyphenolic compound found largely in the skin of red grape and wine, exhibits a wide range of pharmaceutical properties and plays a role in prevention of human cardiovascular diseases [Pendurthi et al., Arterioscler. Thromb. Vasc. Biol. 19, 419-426 (1999)]. It shows a strong affinity towards protein binding and used as inhibitor for cyclooxygenase and ribonuclease reductase. The aim of this study was to examine the interaction of resveratrol with human serum albumin (HSA) in aqueous solution at physiological conditions, using a constant protein concentration (0.3 mM) and various pigment contents (microM to mM). FTIR, UV-Visible, CD, and fluorescence spectroscopic methods were used to determine the resveratrol binding mode, the binding constant and the effects of pigment complexation on protein secondary structure. Structural analysis showed that resveratrol bind non-specifically (H-bonding) via polypeptide polar groups with overall binding constant of K(Res) = 2.56 x 10(5) M(-1). The protein secondary structure, analysed by CD spectroscopy, showed no major alterations at low resveratrol concentrations (0.125 mM), whereas at high pigment content (1 mM), major increase of alpha-helix from 57% (free HSA) to 62% and a decrease of beta-sheet from 10% (free HSA) to 7% occurred in the resveratrol-HSA complexes. The results indicate a partial stabilization of protein secondary structure at high resveratrol content.

PMID: 17054386

As for legal issues surrounding a PK coop, I kind of think it's a case of "We Don't Need No Steenkin' Badges!" As long as everyone was willing to take responsibility for their own blood draws. This is definitely something I'd have to leave my wife out of the loop on... She stresses out enough over my buying bags of white powder from strangers on the Internet, and just tonight I said "but at least I'm not cooking it in a spoon and shooting it up!" So if she walked into the kitchen while I had a needle in my arm, that would, umm, make for a funny story...

[luminous]

It dissolves well in chai (50% milk) - 12oz + 4g res seems to work fine. The pre made mixes (found in cartons) I've seen, list pepper as the most abundant ingredient besides black tea - perhaps this is helpful, but I am not willing to speculate.

Pepper in chai? I didn't realize that! I enjoy chai--my favorite drink at Starbuck's. As for adding resveratrol to the hot beverage, this brings up a question. Does anyone know whether heat in any way degrades resveratrol?

[maxwatt]

It dissolves well in chai (50% milk) - 12oz + 4g res seems to work fine. The pre made mixes (found in cartons) I've seen, list pepper as the most abundant ingredient besides black tea - perhaps this is helpful, but I am not willing to speculate.

Pepper in chai? I didn't realize that! I enjoy chai--my favorite drink at Starbuck's. As for adding resveratrol to the hot beverage, this brings up a question. Does anyone know whether heat in any way degrades resveratrol?

There was one study where they baked resveratrol into blueberry muffins, at 300 degrees for 30 minutes. Analysis showed about 60% of the trans-resveratrol was still present in the muffin.

[Anthony_Loera]

I was having an issue with 1000mg (or even 300mg) not being absorbed fast enough using DMSO, but (as the website states) 100mg over a 24 hour period?

That is much to slow for me.

A

Also does anyone know anything about the 100 mg resveratrol patches sold at redwinepatch.com?


Best,
Darth Hack

I have not started using Res, but i finally ordered some from a GMP certified lab. I'm very interested in the absorption issues.

I noticed people having been using DMSO. Which is a great carrier but dangerous one as it can take not just Res into your body but many other molecules. If you are using DMSO as a carrier agent make sure your skin is clean and free of chemicals. As for the ethanol I was going to try this one once I obtain my Res.

I noticed that Res has a very low solubility in water, a little higher in DMSO and even higher in ethanol. see wikipedia.

Solubility in water

0.03 g/L

Solubility in DMSO

16 g/L

Solubility in ethanol

50 g/L

There is also a table that states how much res is in each glass of wine. It seems very small compared to how much Res these studies are using? If Res really helps people then either they are drinking a lot of wine or there is something in the wine helping Res enter into the body.

For those of you who are using DMSO do you notice any difference of your skin where you topically apply.


~hedgehog

[Anthony_Loera]

What we all really need is some testing of the oral, sub lingual, and trans dermal, etc. methods of delivery and their resultant serum levels of t-resveratrol.

I completely agree... without it, we are pretty much guessing up to a point.

A

[Anthony_Loera]

It dissolves well in chai (50% milk) - 12oz + 4g res seems to work fine. The pre made mixes (found in cartons) I've seen, list pepper as the most abundant ingredient besides black tea - perhaps this is helpful, but I am not willing to speculate.

Pepper in chai? I didn't realize that! I enjoy chai--my favorite drink at Starbuck's. As for adding resveratrol to the hot beverage, this brings up a question. Does anyone know whether heat in any way degrades resveratrol?

There was one study where they baked resveratrol into blueberry muffins, at 300 degrees for 30 minutes. Analysis showed about 60% of the trans-resveratrol was still present in the muffin.

Nice, I presume it was 98% or better max?

A

[missminni]

I have been trolling this list for months and taking resveratrol. The DMSO posts like hedgehog's have really gotten me thinking about and searching for transdermal solutions.

DMSO seems to have a lot of side effects (negative ones too). Side effects that low dosage resveratrol users might be able to avoid, but anyone taking many grams a day will be affected. Has anyone heard of or used Phlojel instead? The bodybuilding community seems to use this stuff for transdermal drug delivery (think testosterone).

I wasn't aware of any negative side effects except the garlic taste (which I only noticed the first time I used it) and the anti-coagulating effect. Are there others you are referring to?

[Darth Hack]

Hi missminni,

Some people have itching/rashes at the administration site. I haven't used it so I don't know if I would be affected. But I was more worried about the smell issue, since I keep my resveratrol levels high all day by dosing every 2 waking hours. And if the patches work I will use multiples of them to keep my serum levels high at night as well. Unless someone knows of a problem with using multiple patches.

Apparently Phlojel doesn't use a sulfur-based solvent, so no garlic and oysters.


Best,
Darth Hack

I have been trolling this list for months and taking resveratrol. The DMSO posts like hedgehog's have really gotten me thinking about and searching for transdermal solutions.

DMSO seems to have a lot of side effects (negative ones too). Side effects that low dosage resveratrol users might be able to avoid, but anyone taking many grams a day will be affected. Has anyone heard of or used Phlojel instead? The bodybuilding community seems to use this stuff for transdermal drug delivery (think testosterone).

I wasn't aware of any negative side effects except the garlic taste (which I only noticed the first time I used it) and the anti-coagulating effect. Are there others you are referring to?

[missminni]

Hi missminni,

Some people have itching/rashes at the administration site. I haven't used it so I don't know if I would be affected. But I was more worried about the smell issue, since I keep my resveratrol levels high all day by dosing every 2 waking hours. And if the patches work I will use multiples of them to keep my serum levels high at night as well. Unless someone knows of a problem with using multiple patches.

Apparently Phlojel doesn't use a sulfur-based solvent, so no garlic and oysters.


Best,
Darth Hack

Hi Darth
I think the itching/rash is because they are using too strong a solution. The DMSO should be diluted to at the very most
70% of the solution and more safely 50% when used above the waist, according to Dr. Jacobs.
I am using a DMSO combination that is 30% aloe, so maybe that's why I haven't had any adverse skin reaction.
As for the garlic smell/taste, I only noticed it the first time when I used much more DMSO than necessary.
I cannot say what using it once every two hours would do. I don't think it has a cumulative effect. I've used
the DMSO many times in a day and didn't have the odor problem.
Does anyone else here using DMSO regularly have the odor problem or the rash?

[Darth Hack]

Hi A.L.

I am currently taking 8 GRAMS per day so I agree with you that 100 mg/day/patch is too slow. I would prefer an 8 hour patch, so I could use them while I sleep. I plan to use multiple patches simultaneously, if I can find proof that this is safe.

Also for me to add this product to my routine the patches will have to be much more bioavailable than oral dosing. If they are 4 times more potent than oral delivery then the pricing becomes competitive with 98%+ trans-resveratrol capsules. If they are 10 times more potent then I could get my daily dose by using 8 patches simultaneously (though I have doubts about this). At this point I doubts that this product will meet my needs, but I have ordered a few to test.

BTW, I am taking 1 gram every 2 hours based on the following "facts" and logic.

1. A minimum 200 mg blood serum level is required to defeat the body's ability to bind resveratrol to glucose or sulfur. I have no idea where they got this figure from, but my experience correlates with this fact.
2. Resveratrol's blood serum half life is about 1.5 hours. This is a well known fact that can be found at multiple sources.
3. After 2 hours 1 gram of resveratrol should be reduced to around 400 mg. By bedtime my blood serum levels should have been slowly climbing during the day, so I coast into the night.


Best,
Darth Hack

I was having an issue with 1000mg (or even 300mg) not being absorbed fast enough using DMSO, but (as the website states) 100mg over a 24 hour period?

That is much to slow for me.

A

Also does anyone know anything about the 100 mg resveratrol patches sold at redwinepatch.com?


Best,
Darth Hack

[Darth Hack]

Hi mm,

Thanks, it is good to know that DMSO is cleared quickly, so the smell may not occur after multiple doses. Also are you rubbing it into the same area? I am looking into 2 other delivery methods, but I may fall back on the "DIY transdermal" method if they don't pan out. I saw an article talking about how to prepare Phlojel in a syringe, which would probably also work for DMSO assuming you could find a syringe made from material that doesn't react to DMSO. This might make it convenient to use multiple times during the day. One would just have to "sneak off" to the bathroom for a few minutes when dosing. LOL!


Best,
dh

Hi Darth
I think the itching/rash is because they are using too strong a solution. The DMSO should be diluted to at the very most
70% of the solution and more safely 50% when used above the waist, according to Dr. Jacobs.
I am using a DMSO combination that is 30% aloe, so maybe that's why I haven't had any adverse skin reaction.
As for the garlic smell/taste, I only noticed it the first time when I used much more DMSO than necessary.
I cannot say what using it once every two hours would do. I don't think it has a cumulative effect. I've used
the DMSO many times in a day and didn't have the odor problem.
Does anyone else here using DMSO regularly have the odor problem or the rash?

[VP.]

Does anyone else here using DMSO regularly have the odor problem or the rash?

No odor problems though for the first week my face would burn slightly but that effect has gone away. I now add about 1/4 gram to my belly button smear some of the paste on my right knee and face. I take about another 2 grams to milk.

[missminni]

Hi mm,

Thanks, it is good to know that DMSO is cleared quickly, so the smell may not occur after multiple doses. Also are you rubbing it into the same area?

yes

[missminni]

Does anyone else here using DMSO regularly have the odor problem or the rash?

No odor problems though for the first week my face would burn slightly but that effect has gone away. I now add about 1/4 gram to my belly button smear some of the paste on my right knee and face. I take about another 2 grams to milk.

why on your face? any visible effects from that?

[VP.]

Does anyone else here using DMSO regularly have the odor problem or the rash?

No odor problems though for the first week my face would burn slightly but that effect has gone away. I now add about 1/4 gram to my belly button smear some of the paste on my right knee and face. I take about another 2 grams to milk.

why on your face? any visible effects from that?

I'm applying some to my right cheek to see I can tell any difference in skin tone over time. It's a long shot. No change yet.

[bixbyte]

Hi Missminni,

Just Curious, I read this thread and wonder out loud:
Has anyone tried Resveratrol Mustard Plasters?
Maybe a way to transport RSV directly into the skin.
Looks like no one has tried MP yet.
Anyone out there know if this is feasible?


Happy New Year!

Bixbyte