121 replies to this topic

[william7]

This discussion is very valid regarding the demographic influences and consequences of individual mobility. But lets not forget driving a car or bike can be fun and adventure as well. Banning is not an option, education and awakening awareness is.

Some pictures of the Passo dello Stelvio (Italian Swiss border) area I've been visiting during my short holiday this week. This experience of individual freedom must have had a life-lengthening effect.

Just think of the life-lengthening effect you would've got had you rode a bicycle as your means of travel on your vacation. The exercise and fresh mountain air (I assume the pollution wasn't that bad where you were at) would've been exhilarating. You might've had one of those rejuvenating spiritual experiences some people have when they hike into the wilderness and take in the full beauty of nature. You miss so much when you race by in a car.

Thanks for sharing your pictures. It looks like some real beautiful country you were in. I hope the Italian drivers didn't give you a hard time.

[Brainbox]

Just think of the life-lengthening effect you would've got had you rode a bicycle as your means of travel on your vacation.......

You are correct, I did that on my previous vacation and will do that probably the next. Although not in a demanding area like this, almost impossible although there are people cycling up and down there.
No time for that now.

[william7]

Well, not all christians can stay out of shopping malls, convenience stores, and schools.

A lot of violence can be avoided by living simply and modestly and making other wise decisions according to the Scriptures. God also protects the righteous from unexpected violence. Psalm 41:1-2; 116:6.

Elijah, humans have cravings for meat for a reason! It's usually packed full of proteins and is a great source of nutrition, you just have to make sure you eat the right stuff, and stay away from the wrong stuff (e.g. lamb)

But it's an unhealthy and unnecessary source of protein. See http://www.all-creat...vegbenefits.htm.

Elijah, Do you take baths or showers? Did you know that each time you do, you're killing hundreds of thousands of god's little children? Yes, you have millions of tiny creatures ranging from benign microbes to microscopic mites living all over your skin! So stop destroying god's creations!

It would obviously be extreme to stop showering or bathing. You can't help killing the microbes and insects you mention. God is concerned with the major destruction and pollution that's harmful to human life that you can refrain from if you live right.

[Karomesis]

elijah, your car was on this site



is that legal? [huh]

[william7]

wait joseph... are you saying that lamb is good or bad for you?

/loves lamb, never want to give it up...

What about the carcinogens in cooked lamb? See http://www.all-creat...rbugs-bact.html. Meat, money and motor vehicles are very hazardous to health and well-being in my opinion. Living communally and going vegetarian according to the Scriptures is the thing to do if you want to live long and happy.

[Zarrka]

you don't think Jesus is into violence Elijah...?

Isaiah 63:3

"I have trodden the wine press alone, and of the people there was none with me, for i will tread them in mine anger and trample them in my fury, and their blood shall be sprinkeled upon my garments, and i will stain all my raiment
4: for the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

[Aegist]

And surely it should be kept in mind that Christians believe that The Old Testament AND the New Testament are "THE" bible, not two separate books. That is, 'IT' is the word of God, thus what is said in the old is just as relevant as what is said in the new.

[Brainbox]

Thanks for sharing your pictures. It looks like some real beautiful country you were in. I hope the Italian drivers didn't give you a hard time.

What I would like to emphasize again is that I, on an individual level, would need to make my own choices, even the choice to expose myself to bad driving habits or challenging road configurations. The pictures are meant to emphasize that there is a fun and challenging side to every risk as well, which is forgotten if you decide to discuss these issues at a meta-level. No central authority has the right to limit any kind of individual choices. If I decide to climb a mountain (which I did in the past) it is my decision to expose myself to a challenging environment, including exposure to the attached risks. The additional issue with individual mobility is that the risks are partly induced by fellow motorists. Which causes central authorities to display their nanny measures to protect the "weak". Which is in essence a good thing of coarse, there must be a balance between central guidance and individual responsibility in our complex society. But it is the way this central guidance is implemented that is my great concern. It should be biased towards education instead of limitation, since education is the only way to strengthen the "weak". And this is exactly the error made by most central guided religious organisations. To impose their way of life and dealing with risks to all people, regardless the individual choices these people would have taken themselves. As if we are not capable of taking these decisions ourselves. Central banning or limiting of human behavioural aspects is not the way to go. This will have the net effect of additional weakening of the "weak" instead of providing an environment where individual growth is enabled.

And as a side-note, I don't think there are intrinsic weak individuals. There is difference in IQ, EQ and whatever other measurements are invented to fulfill the statistical modeling needs of humanity. People are encouraged to stay or even become "weak" due to the wrong type of central guided interventions.

[william7]

you don't think Jesus is into violence Elijah...?

Isaiah 63:3

"I have trodden the wine press alone, and of the people  there was none with me, for i will tread them in mine anger and trample them in my fury, and their blood shall be sprinkeled upon my garments, and i will stain all my raiment
4: for the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

Yes, God does bring about divine punishment on nations that refuse to obey Him. Because the House of Israel and Judah turned away from Him, God punished them on numerous occasions. But you must remember these punishments were all done with the intent of bringing about a future civilization that will be able to keep all His laws without the need of coercive punitive practices. See Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 11:19-20; Hebrews 10:15-17. This is why the punishments brought on errant nations are recorded with the reasons for the punishments given. We're expected to learn from the errors they made. You must look at God's reasons for taking the action He did and what He's trying to accomplish.

I believe we can create a Second Life world where people can learn to live communally according to Jesus Christ's teachings and carefully obey God's law. The problem is finding the right people interested in such a project. You got any suggestions that might be helpful?

[william7]

>  you don't think Jesus is into violence Elijah...?

You should keep in mind that this is from a vision of Isaiah, not the actual words spoken by Jesus to his disciples.

Many say Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. For support, they cite John 1:1-3; 8:57-59 (cf Exodus 3:14); 1 Corinthians 10:1-4.

But, most importantly, Jesus Christ plans to bring about that world where peace and harmony reigns and the people turn their swords and implements of destruction into plowshares and other tools of agricultural development.

[Zarrka]

oh, i never said jesus was the god of the old testement. But he is still talking about using violence to bring about this peace.

Violence does not seem to be inherently wrong, if the result of killing those thousands results in peace and harmony on earth. They can only turn their swords into ploughs after the hard work of massacring the evil ones is complete, it would seem.

[william7]

What I would like to emphasize again is that I, on an individual level, would need to make my own choices, even the choice to expose myself to bad driving habits or challenging road configurations.

But is it really worth the risk? To me, life is too valuable to risk unnecessarily. The law of God I mentioned at the beginning of the thread does permit individual choices to be made. You can choose to obey the law and either reduce or eliminate the risk of harm or disobey it and increase the risk of harm.

The pictures are meant to emphasize that there is a fun and challenging side to every risk as well, which is forgotten if you decide to discuss these issues at a meta-level.

The fun or thrill experienced when engaging in risky behaviors is a psychological condition of mind that can be modified. Humans can learn to be happy engaging in behaviors that do not entail serious risks.

No central authority has the right to limit any kind of individual choices.

If you're talking about human government administering man made laws, I must wholeheartedly agree with you. History shows how badly government by man over man has mismanaged affairs horribly. We need a system much different from anything in the past to be successful.

But it is the way this central guidance is implemented that is my great concern. It should be biased towards education instead of limitation, since education is the only way to strengthen the "weak". And this is exactly the error made by most central guided religious organisations. To impose their way of life and dealing with risks to all people, regardless the individual choices these people would have taken themselves. As if we are not capable of taking these decisions ourselves. Central banning or limiting of human behavioural aspects is not the way to go. This will have the net effect of additional weakening of the "weak" instead of providing an environment where individual growth is enabled.

I wholeheartedly agree with you again. The right type of education starting in early childhood should do it. The strengthening of the weak is important to God. Notice how He condemned the rulers (shepherds) over Israel for, inter alia, failing to strengthen the weak. Ezekiel 34:1-4.

And as a side-note, I don't think there are intrinsic weak individuals. There is difference in IQ, EQ and whatever other measurements are invented to fulfill the statistical modeling needs of humanity. People are encouraged to stay or even become "weak" due to the wrong type of central guided interventions.

You're always going to have this problem whenever you have hierarchical forms of government. This is why I'm for communal living where all things are shared. The weak can be strengthened under these conditions much better.

[william7]

Is Travel Destroying the Planet? http://travel.msn.co...87810&GT1=10243

[william7]

Here's another good reason to stay out of motor vehicles. See http://video.msn.com...w&fg=&gt1=10252. Also, see Bridge collapse a wake-up call for politicians, at http://news.yahoo.co...astructure_dc_1. Life is just to precious and (currently) irreplaceable to risk it on the highways.

[Zarrka]

i think the point is that its the same as any risk.

see Bilbo Baggens on walking out your front door.

life is a risk. dont minimise your risk to the inhibition of living. living is just too much fun.

[Brainbox]

The fun or thrill experienced when engaging in risky behaviors is a psychological condition of mind that can be modified. Humans can learn to be happy engaging in behaviors that do not entail serious risks.

Yup. And I like it. Probably the same way you like your psychlogical condition of mind to be religious, that could probably be modified as well. )

This is why I'm for communal living where all things are shared.

In your latest posts you seem to have left out the communist / religion synergy that would be involved in your concept. But also without the notion of communism and the bad examples of it in recent history, the point above illustrates the fact that there always will be people with different lifestyles and accompanying opinions. or different opinions with accompanying lifestyles. What would you do with children, born into your community, that would display a psychological condition of mind that is not pathological nor criminal according to current liberal general human definition and that does not fit in the "ideal" model an individual should adhere to to be successful in this community or even more extreme, how would you handle such an individual that would undermine the success of your communal concept?.

[Luna]

umm..
if jesus/god has so many plans for us.
Where had he gone to for the last.. 2007 years?
And if you say he's silently doing his plans I don't think this has much of point to talk about anymore.

I could by the same way say the spirits of the druids are watching over us @@..

[basho]

...there always will be people with different lifestyles and accompanying opinions. or different opinions with accompanying lifestyles. What would you do with children, born into your community, that would display a psychological condition of mind that is not pathological nor criminal according to current liberal general human definition and that does not fit in the "ideal" model an individual should adhere to to be successful in this community or even more extreme, how would you handle such an individual that would undermine the success of your communal concept?.

That's a very interesting question, and I'm sure quite troublesome for communities based on certain religious ideals.

The ultimate goal seems to be to constrain human behavior within some tightly defined boundaries according to divinely received wisdom. Perfection is defined as the complete elimination of variation beyond these narrow moral and behavioral rules and constraints. If this ideal is achieved, what will be the result? Clones. Millions upon millions of clones with the same repeating thought patterns and the same ingrained behaviors. Human intellectual and technological progress will come to a halt and the bright spark of intelligence will be lost from the universe.

[william7]

i think the point is that its the same as any risk.

see Bilbo Baggens on walking out your front door.

life is a risk. dont minimise your risk to the inhibition of living. living is just too much fun.

People who want to live longer than usual should be humble, meek, and risk averse. It's a condition of mind that needs to be developed fully in the communal setting where longevity is a top concern.

Did you see this news video entitled Should American Drivers Be Worried?, at http://cosmos.bcst.y...=61492&src=news?

[william7]

The fun or thrill experienced when engaging in risky behaviors is a psychological condition of mind that can be modified. Humans can learn to be happy engaging in behaviors that do not entail serious risks.

Yup. And I like it. Probably the same way you like your psychlogical condition of mind to be religious, that could probably be modified as well. )

Yea, I like my God spot tremendously. So much so that I keep the area squeaky clean and seek to strengthen all thoughts and behaviors emanating from it. I like the part in the article you provide the link to where it says: "These studies do not in any way negate the validity of religious experience or God."

In your latest posts you seem to have left out the communist / religion synergy that would be involved in your concept. But also without the notion of communism and the bad examples of it in recent history,

The bad examples of communism were a result of the Marxist/atheist variety and they never even achieved a true state of communism.

What would you do with children, born into your community, that would display a psychological condition of mind that is not pathological nor criminal according to current liberal general human definition and that does not fit in the "ideal" model an individual should adhere to to be successful in this community or even more extreme, how would you handle such an individual that would undermine the success of your communal concept?.

The Christian communism of the Millennium will be too strongly reinforced by God's Holy Spirit to permit much deviance, at least, in the beginning stages. But, as certain prophecies indicate, it will start to slowly weaken after the 1,000 years is up and Satan is let loose again. Revelation 20:7-8. They'll probably use reeducation techiques, and, when that fails, they'll probably go back to applying the death penalty and other punitive measures.

[william7]

umm..
if jesus/god has so many plans for us.
Where had he gone to for the last.. 2007 years?
And if you say he's silently doing his plans I don't think this has much of point to talk about anymore.

I could by the same way say the spirits of the druids are watching over us @@..

You got to remember that 2007 years is only long time to us, but not to God. Trust me, He's been steadily at work during that period of time. See 2 Peter 3:8-9.

[william7]

That's a very interesting question, and I'm sure quite troublesome for communities based on certain religious ideals. 

The ultimate goal seems to be to constrain human behavior within some tightly defined boundaries according to divinely received wisdom.   Perfection is defined as the complete elimination of variation beyond these narrow moral and behavioral rules and constraints. If this ideal is achieved, what will be the result?  Clones.  Millions upon millions of clones with the same repeating thought patterns and the same ingrained behaviors.  Human intellectual and technological progress will come to a halt and the bright spark of intelligence will be lost from the universe.

Not necessarily. There will still be great variety in character and lifestyle within the constraints of God's law and Christ's teachings during the Millennium. You forget how adaptive and ingenious human behavior can be. Creativity and progress will still go on, but only at a slower and more careful pace.

[basho]

You got to remember that 2007 years is only long time to us, but not to God. Trust me, He's been steadily at work during that period of time.

Elijah, what is it exactly that God would be at work at each day?

And doesn't he have an army of elves at the North Pole to handle the manual labor?

[basho]

That's a very interesting question, and I'm sure quite troublesome for communities based on certain religious ideals. 

The ultimate goal seems to be to constrain human behavior within some tightly defined boundaries according to divinely received wisdom.  Perfection is defined as the complete elimination of variation beyond these narrow moral and behavioral rules and constraints. If this ideal is achieved, what will be the result?  Clones.  Millions upon millions of clones with the same repeating thought patterns and the same ingrained behaviors.  Human intellectual and technological progress will come to a halt and the bright spark of intelligence will be lost from the universe.

Not necessarily. There will still be great variety in character and lifestyle within the constraints of God's law and Christ's teachings during the Millennium. You forget how adaptive and ingenious human behavior can be.

Doesn't that ingenious human behavior stem from eating from the Tree of Knowledge? Which, I believe, was not one of the high points of human progress according to the Bible.

[william7]

You got to remember that 2007 years is only long time to us, but not to God. Trust me, He's been steadily at work during that period of time.

Elijah, what is it exactly that God would be at work each day?

And doesn't he have an army of elves at the North Pole to handle the manual labor?

God's Holy Spirit is always at work strengthening true believers understanding of His law and the teachings of Jesus Christ. The army of elves at the North Pole are a part of Satan's counterfeit Christianity. See http://www.gnmagazin...untoldstory.htm.

[Live Forever]

The army of elves at the North Pole are a part of Satan's counterfeit Christianity. See http://www.gnmagazin...untoldstory.htm.

Evil Santa!



Muahahaha!

[basho]

And doesn't he have an army of elves at the North Pole to handle the manual labor?

... The army of elves at the North Pole are a part of Satan's counterfeit Christianity. See http://www.gnmagazin...untoldstory.htm.

I'm going to have to agree with you there on Christmas. The experience of blind, massively rampant consumerism and phony goodwill during the Christmas season is more than enough to convince me that Christmas is the work of the Devil.

[william7]

The army of elves at the North Pole are a part of Satan's counterfeit Christianity. See http://www.gnmagazin...untoldstory.htm.

Evil Santa!



Muahahaha!

Notice how you can assemble the word Satan out of Santa. Must be one of those subliminal/hypnotic things or something.

[william7]

I'm going to have to agree with you there on Christmas. The experience of blind, massively rampant consumerism and phony goodwill during the Christmas season is more than enough to convince me that Christmas is the work of the Devil.

Very true!