142 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Maxwatt ...sounds good,

James, I am doing this change for the one product. If you still have issues, let me know, and I will take your product out of the price list again until we can discuss further.


ok... the price list has changed for now

thanks
A

[biorev]

Anthony Loera, you seem to sideline Biotivia's product just to increase popularity of RevGenetics product.

You mentioned we provide 99% resveratrol, can you provide the Quality control document for the same.

thanks

[biorev]

Anthony

RevGenetics is not registered under USFDA. If so do you have the registration number and all the quality control documents.

It is no where mentioned in the website !!!!!

Who can we solely depend on your product quality ?

Waiting for your comment.

Thanks

[biorev]

How can we solely depend on your product quality ?

[maxwatt]

Revgenetics seems to have an FDA number; I know that they were able to receive a shipment from China that required one. I also know Anthony tests his shipments, and he seems to have been receiving professional advice on manufacturer and packaging. He posted elsewhere of his experience with an inspection of his manufacturing facility by the FDA.

In short, I would trust his products to contain what he claims and to have shown care in manufacture.

Biotivia/Bioforte: I've never seen their product, but I've met Mr. Betz. I believe he is extremely conscientious with the quality and consistency of his product. I think many here have found his marketing practices objectionable, though, and there seems to have been some semantic obfuscation concerning the total resveratrol content of his product, though the actual trans-resveratrol content is no longer in question. In short the product itself is of good quality. The website does not let one purchase 98% resveratrol alone; one must also get a bottle of the 50% product.

Megaresveratrol I do not have experience with, but I've been told their powder is in low-quality bottles, without a dessicant, making it vulnerable to oxidation.

Relentless Improvement is offering a 98% product; I believe they have purchased from a reliable supplier in China, and are taking all necessary precautions in packaging and manufacture.

Another player may be entering the 98% resveratrol market soon; they've been making inquiries regarding bulk price.

[Anthony_Loera]

Anthony Loera, you seem to sideline Biotivia's product just to increase popularity of RevGenetics product.

You mentioned we provide 99% resveratrol, can you provide the Quality control document for the same.
thanks

Hi Biorev,

I have to say that the statement is incorrect, Biotivia's product was originally on our price list.
I then got an email from James regarding legal action regarding misrepresentation of his product, so I took it out of the list. We were not sure if the data on Biotivias website was being updated, or what about the product was 'misrepresented'.

[glasses]
We then simply left it alone at that point.
Forum folks here started asking why Biotivia's product was not represented on the list, and I replied with what I had from Biotivia as the reason. It's that simple.

Later James Betz posted his comments on quality, and now we have this thread ,were it appears people are getting hot under the collar.

To your other questions:
The U.S. COA lab test for the 99% is available [thumb] , (just email me for a copy). The facility is registered, but not under 'RevGenetics' there is a business reason for this, hmm what else... oh yeah, you can look us up in Florida business DBA records as well. [lol] I don't think the FDA's search is working very well. I typed in a few folks reg numbers and names... and got nothing as well.

BTW: there is alot of great information on this website, including many of the answers that you are probably looking for. Use the search feature, it works great, check the date of the posts... see who asked/answered questions, etc. We have alot of good people on this site that have asked relevant questions. If you believe I am sidelining Biotivia, do a search on it in this forum and make up your own mind about the questions and answers regarding selection quality, and service that all the companies have provided folks here, including Biotivia.

I know folks here really admire Pete from Relentless [thumb] , and 3 or 4 other companies that has provided good service to them, but what do folks say about Biotivia? Search for the consensus my friend, I certainly have not been on this board that long, so I don't presume to have a say into it. I just wanted to create a price list... and only one company had a problem with it... and they disappeared from the list.

Most other companies don't put there neck out to reply in an open forum [:o] (which I think is a mistake) but here we are, and we may only be here until the big companies take over the rsv market. Until that happens, we will bring you the best service and quality we can provide (We like to be criticized and tested first hand by some members of this forum, it lets us know what they really want in a product, such as 3rd party testing).

This Quality thread is interesting, its difficult to know what is a good question from a loaded question at times... but I will answer them personally as much as possible.

I hope this helps, and again... send me an email if you want the COA. I have mentioned this in other posts, so this request by email is nothing new. [tung]

thanks
Anthony Loera

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 16 August 2007 - 09:24 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Question:

are you the author of this blog Biorev?
http://biorev.blogspot.com/

It's simply interesting.

Anthony

[biorev]

Anthony,
Its nice to know you find some good things interesting for a change

[Fredrik]

Am I the only one who find the subtle- and not so subtle war of words between the two company owners Anthony Loera and James Betz tiresome?

I know you guys are here to sell your products. But the way you´re trying to nail each other with awkward questions about each others products is starting to pollute this forum. I am no moderator, this is just my personal view.

I really appreciate that you two are so forthcoming with information regarding your companies and your products

BUT

why don´t you let us, the potential customers, ask the hard questions. We don´t have an ulterior motive for doing so.

[biorev]

Maxwett,

If you are so sure that Rev Genetics has FDA registration number. I feel you can be the better person than Anthony to provide FDA number to the public forum.


Waiting for your reply

[biorev]

Dear Fredrik

We are here to promote our product in right and ethical manner, maintaining pure transperancy for our valued costumers.

But dear friend, we won't entertain any false information about the product and company.

Whatever said till now was in response to the false information from our beloved Critics.

[biorev]

Anthony

You are always keen on information provided on Biotivia's site, which is provides more clear picture regarding the ethics and standards of the company and product rather than being reluctant to provide critical information on your site such as FDA registration, manufacturing facility, COA ,Company profile, Employee strenght, Head office and many more ...which I think Resveratrol customers would like to know about.!!!

[Anthony_Loera]

Am I the only one who find the subtle- and not so subtle war of words between the two company owners Anthony Loera and James Betz tiresome?

I know you guys are here to sell your products. But the way you�re trying to nail each other with awkward questions about each others products is starting to pollute  this forum. I am no moderator, this is just my personal view.

I really appreciate that you two are so forthcoming with information regarding your companies and your products

BUT

why don�t you let us, the potential customers, ask the hard questions. We don�t have an ulterior motive for doing so.

I am truly sorry fredrik,

biorev got me going there for a sec until I found the blog... and then I figured it out. I believe it's partially my fault as I let it escalate slowly. I'll bow out of this thread until more relevant questions are asked. I originally thought we could discuss quality here as peers, not get into a subtle words match.

I am sorry, and I will take the blame on this one. Biorev, I am not sure if you are James or work for him. But if you are, let him know I am sorry if he felt attacked by my posts, I apologize. I have better things to do on my b-day than to get upset at people.

Anthony Loera

[Fredrik]

Dear Fredrik

We are here to promote our product in right and ethical manner, maintaining pure transperancy for our valued costumers.

But dear friend, we won't entertain any false information about the product and company.

Whatever said till now was in response to the false information from our beloved Critics.

I understand that you want to defend you product and your company. But after a while this bitching will make you both look surly, silly and vengeful. Just like me when I´ve had to much to drink, with my head on the bar trying to order ANOTHER one I don´t need.

If you two keep this up I think a lot of people will turn to another distributor that comes without all the drama.

[biorev]

Anthony

Hope you will have worry free day. Many Happy returns of the day.

Thanks for the apology, I'm Not James, nor do I work for him.

This was just to get thread working in right direction rather than being Critical.
We are all here to share some useful and scientific information which could be of great help to our future world.

Competition is alway good as long as its Healthy, it's only thing that makes a person work harder and more efficiently.

Have a good day !!

[biorev]

Dear Fredrik

I'm not here to promote anyone's product, but I joined the thread since I was interested in Newer products and Resveratrol particularly.

In fact I joined the forum only today and saw most of the blogs pertaining to this discussion.

[Brainbox]

I know you guys are here to sell your products. But the way you´re trying to nail each other with awkward questions about each others products is starting to pollute this forum. I am no moderator, this is just my personal view.

I've been following this thread closely. I feel sympathy towards your point of view, but until now no real flame-war like behaviour has manifested itself that should be stopped IMO.

[suspire]

I am also not terribly bothered by the two companies asking questions of one another. In my opinion, the consumers reap the advantages of both groups probing one another.

[Fredrik]

I know you guys are here to sell your products. But the way you´re trying to nail each other with awkward questions about each others products is starting to pollute this forum. I am no moderator, this is just my personal view.

I've been following this thread closely. I feel sympathy towards your point of view, but until now no real flame-war like behaviour has manifested itself that should be stopped IMO.

Agree! No flame-war or nothing. I have full confidence in the moderation of this board. I just thought it was turning silly and I couldn´t keep my mouth shut.

[Fredrik]

I am also not terribly bothered by the two companies asking questions of one another. In my opinion, the consumers reap the advantages of both groups probing one another.

Absolutely, if you can stand the tone that was developing. But I can see that it´s more convenient for us to just kind of sit back and listen and learn while they argue it out. My suggestion to them was that the customers do the probing.

[suspire]

I am also not terribly bothered by the two companies asking questions of one another. In my opinion, the consumers reap the advantages of both groups probing one another.

Absolutely, if you can stand the tone that was developing. But I can see that it´s more convenient for us to just kind of sit back and listen and learn while they argue it out. My suggestion to them was that the customers do the probing.

I agree. I didn't like the tone in a couple of exchanges. That said, I actually prefer both the customers *and* the companies probe one another--there are questions customers may not know to ask that a competitor would, because they are in the business. This generally sheds more light on the matter as long as all parties keep it relatively civil.

[dannov]

On another note, if you fellas really want to win customers over, let's see you start offering Quercatin and Piperin to improve bioavailability of Res. ^_^

[Brainbox]

I moved the OT price discussion to the topic it belongs.
I surely hope you guys run your companies with more care and accuracy than the way you post into this forum. )

Edited by brainbox, 17 August 2007 - 04:21 PM.

[dannov]

Taken from WikiPedia entry on Resveratrol:

In humans resveratrol rapidly undergoes phase II conjugation, both glucuronidation and sulphation at multiple sites on the molecule. The effect of conjugation on efficacy is debated.[34][35] The pharmacokinetics of resveratrol metabolism have not been investigated in humans. Rat studies, however, suggest a half life up to 1.6 hours. In a 2002 issue of J Pharm Exper Therapeutics,[36] Dr. Marier reported that rats given a single oral dose of 50 mg/kg body weight initially experienced a rapid drop in serum resveratrol levels: the half life, or T1/2, of the drug was found to be 8 minutes, meaning that blood levels had dropped to half of peak by that time. However, detectable levels of the drug remained for 12 hours, probably due to enterohepatic recirculation--that it, a release of stored resveratrol from liver tissue, yielding an overall half life of between 1.3 and 1.6 hours. [37] It is expected that chemically modified resveratrol-like molecules (drugs) will have a longer half-life and thus more potency.

As per Wiki policy, original research is not allowed, and therefore here are the links sourced for this information by the WikiAuthor:

^ Scientists question power of resveratrol supplements. Retrieved 14 January 2006
^ Goddard, Ian. Resveratrol Bioavailability Analysis. sci.life-extension. Retrieved on 2007-06-18.
^ Marier JF, Vachon P, Gritsas A, Zhang J, Moreau JP, Ducharme MP (2002). "Metabolism and disposition of resveratrol in rats: extent of absorption, glucuronidation, and enterohepatic recirculation evidenced by a linked-rat model". J. Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. 302 (1): 369-73. PMID 12065739.
^ Marier JF et al. J Pharm Exper Therapeutics 2002;302(1):369-373]

** Note what I bolded in the above quote

Taken from a study regarding Resveratrol and Quercatine:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pt=AbstractPlus

The flavonoid quercetin inhibited resveratrol glucuronidation and its IC50 (mean +/- SD; n = 3) was 10 +/- 1 microM. Myricetin, catechin, kaempferol, fisetin and apigenin (all at 20 microM) inhibited resveratrol glucuronidation and the percent of control ranged between 46% (catechin) to 72% (apigenin).

From Wiki, regarding Piperine:

Piperine has also been found to inhibit human CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein, enzymes important for the metabolism and transport of xenobiotics and metabolites.[1] In animal studies, piperine also inhibited other enzymes important in drug metabolism.[2][3] By inhibiting drug metabolism, piperine may increase the bioavailability of various compounds.

Sourced from:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12130727

http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=3917507

http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=8347144

http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=9619120

Here's another couple of studies:

36. Atal CK, et al. Biochemical basis of enhanced drug bioavailability by piperine: evidence that piperine is a potent inhibitor of drug metabolism. Journal of Pharmacology & Experimental Therapeutics 1985;232:258-62.

20 mg piperine (an inhibitor of glucuronidation metabolism) increased the bioavailability (serum concentration) of oral curcumin by 20 fold in humans and 154% in rats Shoba 1998: http://www.ncbi.nlm....0&dopt=Abstract

Khajuria A, Zutshi U, Bedi KL.
Permeability characteristics of piperine on oral absorption - an active alkaloid from peppers and a bioavailability enhancer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....1&dopt=Abstract

Atal CK, Dubey RK, Singh J.
Biochemical basis of enhanced drug bioavailability by piperine: evidence that piperine is a potent inhibitor of drug metabolism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....7&dopt=Abstract


Now that I've done research to prove to you what I already know, I fully expect a couple bottles of free Res to be waiting for me on my porch when I get home.

[bionutra]

Dannov

Great work !

Bioprine combination is patented by Sabinsa Corp. and that doesnot anyway states that piperine increases resveratrol bioavailability. The studies are based on curcuminoids (C3) + piperine

Does Ergopharm have their own scientific evidence that quercetin and piperine combination incresed the half life of resveratrol.?

[dannov]

Thanks :D And, I'll ask Pat Arnold what he's found on his own, and what made him choose these two in particular for ya. I asked him a question a few hours ago, so I'm going to have to wait for his reply to that one first before I send another. His PM box often gets to capacity in that forum, lol.

Also, what you want to search for with Piperine is how it affects inhibition of the Sulphate enzyme, as that is one of the two enzymes that degrades Resveratrol. I'm sure there's a lot more research out there too, hehe.

[dannov]

Dannov

Great work !

Bioprine combination is patented by Sabinsa Corp. and that doesnot anyway states that piperine increases resveratrol bioavailability. The studies are based on curcuminoids (C3) + piperine

Does Ergopharm have their own scientific evidence that quercetin and piperine combination incresed the half life of resveratrol.?

OK, got your reply, here's the PM quote from Pat:

if you go to pubmed and type in "piperine and glucuronidase"  and "quercetin and sulfatase"  you will get articles with the evidence

do "quercetin and resverarol"  and you will even get articles discussing increased bioavailability

Time to go swimming! In research that is.

*edit*

This study that I just found on Pubmed is probably one of the things that encouraged Pat to create 6-OXO Extreme, rather than just leave it at 6-OXO. Both products are anti-estrogen blockers, meant to be used post-cycle when using a prohormone or minor steroid. It doesn't mean that you can't use 6-OXO Extreme for regular health purposes for the Res and 6-OXO, but just saying it's purpose. Anywho:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

The abstract suggests that Quercetin inhibits Estro Sulfatase, an estrogenic component. This would be what Pat is referencing in the product description:

When you consume resveratrol it is absorbed adequately into the blood stream but after that it is very quickly sulfated and glucuronidated by enzymes.

[maxwatt]

Quote without comment:

Dear Fredrik

I'm not here to promote anyone's product, but I joined the thread since I was interested in Newer products and Resveratrol particularly.

In fact I joined the forum only today and saw most of the blogs pertaining to this discussion.

But earlier biorev posted:

Dear Fredrik

We are here to promote our product in right and ethical manner, maintaining pure transperancy for our valued costumers.

But dear friend, we won't entertain any false information about the product and company.

Whatever said till now was in response to the false information from our beloved Critics.

[Anthony_Loera]

I saw that as well...

I suppose that is the problem with open forums, anyone can create new accounts and act as different people. Although... I also think being anonymous in a forum allows for greater freedom of expression, and that is a strength I wouldn't want people give up either...

Well guys, that's enough for the week... I'll take a break now and try to find my way to the beach this weekend. Take care biorev, take care bionutra, am I missing any bio<somethings> ?

Not sure... take care everyone, I will go give myself a 'quality weekend' with my son.

Anthony Loera

[suspire]

Quote without comment:

Dear Fredrik

I'm not here to promote anyone's product, but I joined the thread since I was interested in Newer products and Resveratrol particularly.

In fact I joined the forum only today and saw most of the blogs pertaining to this discussion.

But earlier biorev posted:

Dear Fredrik

We are here to promote our product in right and ethical manner, maintaining pure transperancy for our valued costumers.

But dear friend, we won't entertain any false information about the product and company.

Whatever said till now was in response to the false information from our beloved Critics.

Well, duh. It was pretty clear from the start that biorev was a shill for the company and that he/she has multiple bio-whatever named accounts or multiple reps from the company are on here(all with the same terrible etiquette). I find some of their remarks against RevGenetics distasteful, but only because of the way they are worded and their poorly orchestrated attempts to deceive us(into believing they aren't reps of the company). I don't mind the meat of the questions/exchanges, only the manner in which they are being made. But tact and subtly seem to elude biorev and in the end, I'll take impolitely raised questions over polite indifference.