44 replies to this topic

[dannov]

Good points Mike.

That ginger theory sounds very feasible. If ginger does indeed accelerate metabolism or at least facilitate the process, then I think a logical conclusion would be that it'd facilitate the digestion of whey protein, perhaps accelerating it. And, accelerated metabolization of whey means it gets into the bloodstream quicker, thus meaning quicker muscle uptake.

I may try this...especially if ginger is as cheap as you claim.

[zoolander]

Dannov, we're talking about using essential amino acids before a workout and not whey protein. The EAA's won't really need any digestion because they are in their mono or isolated forms hence it's not digestion we're concerned about it's absorption. You also mentioned stimulating metabolism. Why not just use caffeine or a caffiene analouge?

So I think we can all agree that an essential amino mix pre-workout is what we're looking for. Agree or disagree? Now we just need to put an effective loading system together to assist with the absorption and possibly add a few extras such as creatine, arginine (or citrulline because latest reseach is showing it's more effective) and perhaps glutamine.

[edward]

wooohhhh wait up one minute edward. I wouldn't call Muscle fuel bullshit I would call it run of the mill and expensive.
What makes you think that the ginger works apart from your own subjective experiance? Ginger being an effective way to increase muscle gain is a bit far fetched don't you think? and just because ginger is just as effective as some pharmaceuticals in preventing nausea don't make the assumption that ginger is more effective than amino acids.

First off, I was merely stating that the addition of ginger to common everyday whey protein will accelerate the digestion and breakdown of the whey protein into amino acids, peptides and small proteins (which is what your body is trying to do anyways) furthermore it should aid in the absorption (one limiting factor to consuming a large serving of protein is that your body literally can't digest and utilize it all). This will speed the amino acids delivery to the bloodstream and thus muscle tissue. I was not saying anything about ginger being more effective than amino acids or by itself building muscle, I was simply stating that from what I have read it is very useful when trying to quickly get complex proteins broken down and into the blood stream in cases such as after exercise when there is a small window in which muscle tissue will very quickly utilize protein.

As far as the product that started the thread I wasn't referring to it as BS I was referencing some of the products that supposedly promote rapid protein utilization post exercise and that ginger or a bunch of cheap digestive enzymes are probably just as effective. I personally noticed results from adding ginger to my whey protein. The ingredients in the product you mentioned seemed good just very expensive and nothing out of the ordinary.

I have found great results from plain old whey protein (blended with ginger) creatine monohydrate (yes the old school cheap kind), Arginine alpha-ketoglutarate (AAKG) combined with l-citruline and a generic pre workout drink with caffeine added

here are a couple of ginger references (the first one is from the new chapter website the next is an excerpt from Dr. Perricone's book, the actual studies where this information was found are available if you search google scholar but one needs to pay do download or access them)
http://i202.photobuc...ydez/ginger.jpg
http://i202.photobuc...dez/ginger2.jpg

[zoolander]

excerpt from Dr. Perricone's book

Oh no you dient!

[mike250]

Dannov, we're talking about using essential amino acids before a workout and not whey protein. The EAA's won't really need any digestion because they are in their mono or isolated forms hence it's not digestion we're concerned about it's absorption. You also mentioned stimulating metabolism. Why not just use caffeine or a caffiene analouge?

So I think we can all agree that an essential amino mix pre-workout is what we're looking for. Agree or disagree? Now we just need to put an effective loading system together to assist with the absorption and possibly add a few extras such as creatine, arginine (or citrulline because latest reseach is showing it's more effective) and perhaps glutamine.

I agree so as long as you're not using the EAAs on their own because their main drawback is poor absorption. The loading system you mention must contain some form of peptides because the combination enhances the EAA absorption significantly. A hydrolysate (hydrowhey) comes to mind here as it is already pre-digested and it bypasses the stomach flooding the boodstream with aminos faster than regular protein powder. then you can add in your BCAAs, creatine, glutamine, ariginine and malate.

speaking of malate do you have links to those studies that say its effective?

[zoolander]

Here I've slapped a few products together and calculated the cost per serve (iherb prices)

Homemade Muscle Fuel + more:
Creatine Surge [1 scoop (Jarrow)] + Amino Surge [6 tabs (Jarrow)] + Ripped Fuel [2 caps (Twin Lab)] + AAKG [2tabs (NOW)] + Citrulline [2 caps(NOW)] = $1.62/serve

comments:
1. Creatine surge is great for loading
2. Amino Surge has a good amount of both essential and non-essential amino acids. It is however, a tad light on the brach chain aminos. You could always swap the Amino Surge for a BCAA of your choice
3. Ripped Fuel is a bit heavy on the stimulant side (i.e caffeine). Wish they still sold this stuff with ephedrine in it
4. IMO you could have either or when it comes to the arginine and citrulline. I just added both to bulk up the stack.

the above combo trumps Muscle Fuel IMO. A fairly decent price @$1.62 per serve compared with the close to $4.00 per serve for the muscle fuel

How would other people stack their pre-workout stack?

Bulk nutrition has also put a few stacks together for example
http://www.bulknutri...roducts_id=1647

Thoughts?

[mike250]

just do a custom mix on trueprotein.

[zoolander]

shit mike! I've never seen that site before. WOW. What a site! I might have a play

[dannov]

Aye, trueprotein, haven't heard of that site in a while--totally forgot about it. Buddy was trying to get us to do a bulk order there I believe years ago, though it could have been a different custom mixing site...I just can't imagine there's too many of those out there.

Anywho, yes, I was referring to post-workout in that last statement.

Oh, and Edward, any particular Ginger supplement/site to get it that you'd recommend?

[edward]

http://www.mountainr...bulkherb/g.html
1 pound of bulk organic ginger powder for about $9.00

Fresh pickled ginger can be bought at any Farmer's Market/Asian Store for about $2 for a jar.

Supposedly the fresh stuff has more enzyme activity but obviously that all depends on how much of the powder you are consuming.

Again, just a cheap effective way of maximizing protein breakdown and absorption, no miracles lol.

[edward]

http://www.blackwell....1973.tb02836.x
http://www.blackwell...73.2004.06403.x
http://www.blackwell....2005.tb07130.x

Ok Zoolander here are some more scholarly references for the proteolytic activity of ginger (sorry for the Perricone ref., it was just easily accessible)

[dannov]

http://www.mountainr...bulkherb/g.html
1 pound of bulk organic ginger powder for about $9.00

Fresh pickled ginger can be bought at any Farmer's Market/Asian Store for about $2 for a jar.

Supposedly the fresh stuff has more enzyme activity but obviously that all depends on how much of the powder you are consuming.

Again, just a cheap effective way of maximizing protein breakdown and absorption, no miracles lol.

Cool--thanks Ed. Btw, what dosage do you usually take with, say, 40g of whey (if you can provide amount in fresh ginger as well, cool ^_^)? Not expecting miracles, but have been wanting to get something to help with digestion for some time now.

[zoolander]

Cheers edward

[edward]

I've been using one rounded teaspoon of powder per 37 grams of protein (the amount in my typical serving of whey protein). One rounded teaspoon is roughly 6 ish grams. I throw in roughly 1 teaspoon of the fresh pickled ginger as well. Blend for a minute or so and enjoy!

The fresh ginger tastes pretty good but that much powdered ginger is well ahem an acquired taste but not too bad.

[dannov]

Very cool thanks bro.