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Should imminst try to save the world's oldest man?


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#91 Grail

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 12:28 AM

Maybe if he has some amount of personal investment in this, Mr. Tanabe would be less likely to be hasty about cancelling his membership due to external pressure. I support the idea in principle, but I don't believe ImmInst should fund the entire cryopreservation.

#92 struct

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 01:03 AM

The caveats to all this are that ice nucleation (formation of embryonic ice crystals on the molecular scale) can still proceed rapidly until ten or twenty degrees below the glass transition temperature, and not everything inside a living thing will necessarily have the same glass transition temperature.

Thanks bgwowk!

#93 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 02:53 AM

Thanks Bruce, I've been in contact with Ben, and I'm sure that many will want to donate and all that can be worked out if Mr. Tanabe is interested. Graciously, the CI member in Japan has offered to help in this matter--I'm in the process of re-writing and sending my letter to him. The situation I'm in, is trying to make everyone happy--CI and ImmInst, so I'll try to word it accordingly, I do agree with what the Japanese member said that, that the family would politely decline if it did not have the funds--and that offer of assistance if they are interested should be up front. I've decided to take on the responsibility in my offer to the family, that what ImmInst and CI does not cover,--I personally will raise. So, I'm excited that the letter will be going--and I'll hope that the family is interested (but doubt that they will be) but if they are--then we all can rally from there. If the media is good, ImmInst may even want to offer more--but I certainly wouldn't advocate for that at this point. :)

#94 benbest

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 02:48 AM

If Tomoji Tanabe says publicly he wants cryonics, plus personally pays for a non-trivial % of the cost then I think ImmInst should match that % up to $5,000 US.


I had been operating on the suggestion that ImmInst would be contributing $15,000 to $20,000. If ImmInst will be contributing no more than $5,000, and if even that is contingent upon an equal contribution by Tomoji Tanabe, I don't think there is much chance that this project will succeed in raising the necessary money (even assuming Mr. Tanabe is interested). Judging by the size of the gift he was given by his native city, I don't think that he has much money.

I am estimating that the total amount required for this project should be just under $35,000. In addition to the $28,000 Option One cost of cryopreservation, there is the Option One Membership fee itself which is $1,250. And the $28,000 does not cover the expenses of a funeral director in Japan, plus shipping expenses from Japan to Michigan.

#95 Bruce Klein

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:42 AM

If Tomoji demonstrates an inability to contribute $5,000, then it may be worthwhile to reconsider things. However, ImmInst should probably hold off on making more of a commitment before hearing back from Tomoji.

Thanks, Shannon!

#96 John Schloendorn

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:01 AM

Woah Shannon, that's one hell of a commitment. This will sure add an interesting component to imminst's democratic process.

Even so, I don't think you should give yourself away right away completely. What can go wrong if you merely point out that fundraising aid *may* be possible, and gauge his level of interest from the response? If he's interested at all, he is not going to ignore that.

#97 ag24

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:44 PM

What a fascinating discussion this is. However, whatever this guy may have said to the media, let's face it, the chances that he would be interested in cryonics at all, let alone interested enough to be willing to move to the US for his last year(s) so as to allow a high-quality preservation, are infinitesimal; conversely, if he were to do that, the prospects of the money being made available by one or another wealthy cryonicist are quite high. As such, I think it is rather a waste of time and effort to discuss the practicalities (including funding) until he's been approached. As John says, a non-binding indication that funding will probably not be a problem is the way to go.

I know an Alcor member in Japan if that's any help.

#98 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:20 AM

Oh, well it may be help... but right now a CI member in Japan is helping. Yes, I see the chance of this working is very low, but thank you for offering to contact the Alcor Japanese member.

The letter I wrote, is being edited down, because the Japanese CI member is not very good with English, but at this point CI has obligated themselves as going in half with what ImmInst donates.

I've not thought that Alcor would be interested in doing this, but can check... I'll email some Q's and get back to y 'all :)

#99 Athan

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 02:38 AM

What a fascinating discussion this is. However, whatever this guy may have said to the media, let's face it, the chances that he would be interested in cryonics at all, let alone interested enough to be willing to move to the US for his last year(s) so as to allow a high-quality preservation, are infinitesimal...


That was my interpretation of his 'declaration'. I've heard many people say that they want to live forever, but when approached with any strategies of extending their lifespan to any degree they turn them down. Approaching him can't hurt; I just wouldn't get my hopes up that he'll accept the offer.

Moving such an old man to the States would also be a huge hassle, but if it can give this idea and this science the publicity it needs (on the humanitarian side of matters) the fiasco generated would be wholly worth it.

#100 eternaltraveler

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 11:23 AM

If Tomoji Tanabe says publicly he wants cryonics, plus personally pays for a non-trivial % of the cost then I think ImmInst should match that % up to $5,000 US.


I had been operating on the suggestion that ImmInst would be contributing $15,000 to $20,000. If ImmInst will be contributing no more than $5,000, and if even that is contingent upon an equal contribution by Tomoji Tanabe, I don't think there is much chance that this project will succeed in raising the necessary money (even assuming Mr. Tanabe is interested). Judging by the size of the gift he was given by his native city, I don't think that he has much money.

I am estimating that the total amount required for this project should be just under $35,000. In addition to the $28,000 Option One cost of cryopreservation, there is the Option One Membership fee itself which is $1,250. And the $28,000 does not cover the expenses of a funeral director in Japan, plus shipping expenses from Japan to Michigan.


I think it's reasonable for imminst to contribute 15-20 K.

We first need to hear from Mr. Tanabe on his interest before we can hold any kind of vote on the specific contribution. Some directors think it's too much, others might be willing to contribute more.

It's unlikely he'll go for it, but if he does we'll find a way to make it happen.

#101 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 09:27 PM

Well even at 35,000 to 40,000 the costs are way less than other cryonics options out there, and I think the amount of publicity would be well worth it for ImmInst and CI. Currently Aubrey put me in touch with the Japanese Alcor member, who speaks English and Japanese very well and has some connections with T.V. studios. He is contacting some people to see about having the offer be filmed--he say this would have a higher likely hood of being accepted by the family--or even just seen by the family at all. Mr. Tanabe will be getting a lot of letters, as old active people in Japan are celebrities and receive a lot of letters and would more likely open one from a T.V. station rather than an individual. So, after the 20th of this month we'll be hearing more, and I'll update. The Alcor Japanese member is in China right now, and when he gets back to Japan on the 20th he is going to have a phone brainstorming session with the CI Japanese member.

My letter may not be needed at all, it would be great if the two crynicists there, or one of them can make the offer on behalf of ImmInst and Cryonics Institute. That would get into AP articles, and we could tie in with our own web presences as well.

#102 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 01:27 PM

From Curzio:

"I talked to a friend in the TV business.
They will get another opinion once they talk to a producer next week
but
their opinion was that people won't be interested in watching the old
guy because he is not a celebrity.
Also they are skeptical you will be able to convince him to do cryonics

and if you managed to then you'll have to deal with his family. They
may
be against it, or they may say since you're experimenting with him then

pay us.

The best thing would be for a japanese to show up and talk to him - a
foreigner showing up at his house would just be too unexpected.

That said, if cryonics organizations want to enter the japanese market
the tv people could perhaps organize a show based on celebrities being
asked to get 'frozen'.
Japan has a burial policy for bodies but if that could be overcome the
advantages could be

- very high pro-capita income
- very high percentage of elderly people
- mostly non-religious
- open minded towards new technologies

#103 xlifex

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 04:42 AM

[quote]

Many ImmInst members do support the research of better preservation of mammals and revival techniques by donating to the research that Alcor and Cryonics Institute. You can check this technical blog done by scientists working at Alcor:

http://depressedmeta....wordpress.com/

This blog has its own domain name now:

http://www.depressedmetabolism.com

#104 benbest

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 11:38 PM

Well even at 35,000 to 40,000 the costs are way less than other cryonics options out there, and I think the amount of publicity would be well worth it for ImmInst and CI. Currently Aubrey put me in touch with the Japanese Alcor member, who speaks English and Japanese very well and has some connections with T.V. studios. He is contacting some people to see about having the offer be filmed--he say this would have a higher likely hood of being accepted by the family--or even just seen by the family at all. Mr. Tanabe will be getting a lot of letters, as old active people in Japan are celebrities and receive a lot of letters and would more likely open one from a T.V. station rather than an individual. So, after the 20th of this month we'll be hearing more, and I'll update. The Alcor Japanese member is in China right now, and when he gets back to Japan on the 20th he is going to have a phone brainstorming session with the CI Japanese member.

My letter may not be needed at all, it would be great if the two crynicists there, or one of them can make the offer on behalf of ImmInst and Cryonics Institute. That would get into AP articles, and we could tie in with our own web presences as well.


I have not heard any more about this subject since Shannon offered to contact
the world's oldest man in October. Has anything been done or accomplished in
terms of contacting him? Shannon, where did you get with this?

Just to make sure that Tomoji Tanabe is still alive, I checked the Wikipedia entry
for him:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Tomoji_Tanabe

I should think that if he had died the Wikipedia entry would make note of it.
In June 2007 he was described as "extremely healthy" and there have been
no updates about that either.

-- Ben Best

#105 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 05:37 AM

Hey Ben, I'll have to call you--but I've heard nothing. The Alcor member in Japan, who Aubrey put me in touch with, had contacted a few media people (one his boss knew, through work) and sadly no one was interested in running the piece. Also, they thought in person with cameras would be better than just a letter. I'm willing to try to straight up send my letter, I could try that 'just in case', even though I've heard it has low chances of working, I'm always in mind of something being better than nothing ;o)

#106 neonnexus

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Posted 23 April 2008 - 11:30 PM

I think this is a great idea. It will be exposure for ImmInst and cryonics. We should ensure the following before proceeding:

- The individual wishes to be cryonically preserved
- The family are supportive
- Arrangements can be made to allow for a high quality preservation
- We can secure sufficient media coverage

Thanks for keeping us updated Shannon, a well drafted letter that answers all the questions that could be asked is probably the most we can do at the moment.

#107 neonnexus

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 09:34 AM

Also, would it not be an idea to send letters to all supercentarians inviting them to think about what we do and what we are working towards. They are an inspiration to us and we should let them know. I know that if I was 110+ and did not know of cryonics or the great work and resources going into anti-aging research, I would be encouraged by such a letter. It may even result in new membership and we could possibly save lives. Any thoughts on this or have I overlooked something?

#108 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:44 PM

What is currently happening....?

#109 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:22 AM

The Alcor member in Japan that Aubrey put me in touch with, did talk to a Television Producer he knows through his work--about his idea. The two Japanese people, the CI member and the Alcor member both thought an in person offer would have a much better chance of success than a letter (which is considered quite informal, and would likely be discarded along with all the other mail Mr. Tanabe would be getting). The Alcor member said the producer was not interested, I'm not sure how much it was shopped around--but that is where this issue was left. Alcor has a PR company, but would not employ them to offer free preservation for the world's oldest man, they were not interested in doing that when I'd asked before. I can try to send the letter, like I said--but I doubt it will have any effect.

#110 Grail

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:36 AM

So we're basically sunk on this one, or can we get someone to make an in person offer?

#111 solbanger

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:40 AM

The Alcor member in Japan that Aubrey put me in touch with, did talk to a Television Producer he knows through his work--about his idea. The two Japanese people, the CI member and the Alcor member both thought an in person offer would have a much better chance of success than a letter (which is considered quite informal, and would likely be discarded along with all the other mail Mr. Tanabe would be getting). The Alcor member said the producer was not interested, I'm not sure how much it was shopped around--but that is where this issue was left. Alcor has a PR company, but would not employ them to offer free preservation for the world's oldest man, they were not interested in doing that when I'd asked before. I can try to send the letter, like I said--but I doubt it will have any effect.


Well, that sucks. Of course on the flip side the media could have portrayed the whole offering as Alcor's attempt to manipulate an old man for press. How about they contact someone we know wants to be cryopreserved for the future? Like when I heard about Madonna's cryo plans!

#112 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 09:37 AM

It maybe would be possible for someone here to go to Japan and make an in person offer to him? Maybe someone could get in touch with his family,visit him and interview him and mention cryonics.Do you think that he was really serious or just joking when he said he wants to live forever?

#113 VictorBjoerk

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 11:36 AM

Why not use a magazine if the televison producer's don't seem interested?It may create lots of exposure since the news will spread to other magazines woreldwide.

#114 benbest

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 10:43 PM

I have not heard any more about this subject since Shannon offered to contact
the world's oldest man in October. Has anything been done or accomplished in
terms of contacting him? Shannon, where did you get with this?

Just to make sure that Tomoji Tanabe is still alive, I checked the Wikipedia entry
for him:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Tomoji_Tanabe


The world's oldest man is in the news again because he has had another birthday.
The Associated Press article says that he has downgraded his expectations
from not wanting to die (as he said a year ago http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7000487.stm )

to only wanting to live another five years:

http://ap.google.com...9fOmygD939AGU80

But the Reuters article says that he wants to live another
ten years, adding (inconsistently) that he doesn't want to die:

http://www.reuters.c...T25714020080918

#115 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 07:18 PM

The new World's Oldest Man may be interested? :) http://news.yahoo.co..._britain_oldest

#116 Shannon Vyff

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 02:10 AM

Ok, I guess really we get a New World's Oldest Man too quickly to sustain a free suspension for each, and although one high profile suspension would be inspiring--it would be sad to be unable to provide suspensions to others who would want them. Here is an interview with the newest World's Oldest Man:

http://www.greatfall...EWS01/907230303

#117 The Immortalist

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:22 AM

well good job people Tomoji Tanabe passed away about a year ago! We could have saved him and gave him a chance to fulfill his wish (to live forever) but because we didn't come to a discussion he is now officially dead with no chance to come back to life. Good job people good job (saying it in a sarcastic tone)

We should find another supercentenarian who wishes to live forever. I think we should really do something like this, it will be great positive publicity for Imminst!




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