10 replies to this topic

[ganeshge]

Since, from Human studies, we know, Muscle building certainly influences better mean lifespan, how does we start creating a new focus group on combining CR with Muscle building. I am aware that many of CR practioners do exercise to counteract the downside the CR (low DHEA, low bonestrength and lower testosterone), combining CR especially with muscle building should be an interesting combination.

I am suggesting this, since, I dont think, it will ever be possible to do that kind of study in animals.

To be precise, currently I am doing the approach of CR with muscle building and hope to share the results in the coming months.

Any suggestions and comments??

[lars]

It might not be an issue, it seems that Jack Lelanne might be on a CR type diet from his interviews (seems the keyword, i could be wrong), and that man is fit:

http://www.shareguide.com/LaLanne.html (search for diet)


and he says he takes like 50 supplements

[health_nutty]

I'm giving intermittent fasting a try combined with weighlifting and cardio. I do full body weighlighting 2x a week (and cardio 4x week). I eat normally the day of my weightlifting and the more the day after. On the other days I eat significantly less. I lift Tue and Thurs. So I eat quite a bit less on monday, normal on tue, more than normal on wed (appetite is waaay up), thurs same as mon, friday normal, saturday more than normal, sunday less again.

When I cut out the calories I try to cut out the grains and only eat until 80% full. So I'm actually carb cycling as well.

[eldar]

With intermittent fasting muscle building is doable. In fact I'm currently doing that. Not nearly as easy as straight out bulking though.
On strict CR I really doubt it. It's hard to see how you could provide your muscles with the raw materials needed to grow when you are on a calorie decifient diet.

Maintaining muscle mass on the other might be more feasible. From the above link you provided, it seems this is what Lelanne is doing. (if he is in fact doing CR, didn't read the page that well)
It would seem like an ideal situation to first build a sufficient muscle mass and then go on CR.

I would like to see some comment's on this though. As it is now, it looks like many CR practitioners end up loosing most of their muscle mass.

To be precise, currently I am doing the approach of CR with muscle building and hope to share the results in the coming months.

What's your exercise/diet plan?
How much do you eat(in calories)? And how do you divide your intake, i.e. do you eat more after working out etc.

Edited by ceth, 04 February 2008 - 07:53 AM.

[Shepard]

On each end of the spectrum you see things that wouldn't otherwise make sense: huge people that can't lose weight even in a caloric deficit, and really skinny people that can add lean tissue in a caloric deficit.

This type of thing is also responsible for people just starting exercising that can lose fat and add LBM at the same time. If the body is far enough away from equilibrium, stuff gets weird.

Edited by shepard, 29 February 2008 - 08:17 PM.

[shadowrun]

I was on a 30% CR diet while I was on a heavy-lifting program. I ate half of my calories for the day within a 2 hour window after lifting.

- I ate a healthy diet with a piece of meat maybe 1-2 times a week. Lots of Beans. Most of my protein source coming from Scoops of Whey or Egg protein.

I cycled creatine 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off.
I was also supplementing with Resveratrol.

I lost 2 lbs for the 3 months I was on the program - None until I dropped the creatine...Which I attribute to Water Weight

- I increased my lifts in the 20-30% range. I lifted heavily 2 years before I re-started so some of my strength may be attributable to that.

I hit a plateu at the end of my 3rd month and I went on vacation for 3 weeks. I returned and didnt back into lifting for about 2 months. Since then I returned to a more traditional lifting program without excess calories.

I upped my protein intake to .8-1g protein per lb of body weight and I've put on about 9 lbs in 5 months
My new gym has a handheld electronic body fat device and my bodyfat has gone from went from 13.5 - 13.9 over the past 5 months - Basically i'm putting on a little more fat than muscle and my strength has noticeably increased.

In both instances i've worked out with my brother and girlfreind - Our results were fairly consistent

Based on my own experiences, IMO, if approached correctly I believe someone on a more mild form of CR can reduce BF and Gain strength without adding size. I also beleive that strength gains will plateau in time and that it will be almost impossible to not have at least a slow loss of body weight over time.

I beleive supplemenation helped me immensely as well as the staggering of calories around my lifting schedule.
My past lifting ability and the time frame to which I applied this method may have helped. As you can tell from my diet I may also have a slightly slower than normal metabolic rate.

Edited by shadowrun, 29 February 2008 - 09:21 PM.

[aikikai]

Common saying is that in order to build muscles, you need to eat more calories than average calorie intake per day.
Maybe it is possible to build muscles to a certain extent, but as the muscles get's bigger, the more energy/calories the muscles requires in order to keep them and let them grow bigger.

[kismet]

I don't think it is possible to preserve any kind of muscle mass with the typical CR diet for most people in the long-term. In theory it might be possible, because even obese ob/ob mice benefit from CR IIRC, so at least fat tissue does not counteract the CR effects.

I've always wondered if exogenous testosterone+CR would help to maintain muscle mass. However, there's always the risk of negating the CR benefits with steroid abuse, most importantly the cardiovascular benefits.

shadowrun, a diet (i.e. a "cut") is not CR.

[simon007]

Hi @,

I'm looking for some good reading about CR and exercise/endurance sports, does anybody have any suggestions?

Cheers,

Simon

[EmbraceUnity]

I don't think it is possible to preserve any kind of muscle mass with the typical CR diet for most people in the long-term. In theory it might be possible, because even obese ob/ob mice benefit from CR IIRC, so at least fat tissue does not counteract the CR effects.

I've always wondered if exogenous testosterone+CR would help to maintain muscle mass. However, there's always the risk of negating the CR benefits with steroid abuse, most importantly the cardiovascular benefits.

shadowrun, a diet (i.e. a "cut") is not CR.

Many attribute the benefit of calorie restriction to be reduced levels of IGF, which is why some have started to recommend lower amounts of protein than the older CRON norms, which were often quite high. Wouldn't testosterone injections nullify such effects? In any event I would avoid exogenous testosterone and go for a more conservative Zone-style approach to carb/fat/protein ratios - unless of course your CR is so extreme that you would be deficient in protein otherwise (in which case methionine restriction might be the way to go... not sure).

Of course if a bunch of studies come out proving benefits of CR + hormones that is another matter, but I have seen no evidence thus far to make such a recommendation.