104 replies to this topic

[Ghostrider]

I have experimented with many nootropics and I could not feel a positive effect from any of them. Every one that I tried, I considered to be a waste of money. Then I started supplementing with fish oil. The effect is subtle if any, but I think it might be beneficial. I don't feel any smarter with it, just more mentally "awake", less mentally lethargic at times. Anyone else experience this? If so, any idea what causes the effect?

[kenj]

Intake of DHA (salmon, sardines (wild cold water fish), fish oil etc.) is associated with higher levels of acetylcholine and serotonin in the brain, - thus frequent intake of fish oil can enlighten the mood and improve learning, - I can't isolate out any cognitive effect from DHA (I get 400mg, IIRC), but I've taken fish oil for almost a decade, so perhaps I would be in much worse shape :-), if I didn't get any, or ate any fish.

[Brainbox]

The general consensus within research is that fish oil takes about 6 months continuous use before effect is sorted.

[Ghostrider]

Is there a particular type of fish oil that is better for cognitive health and performance? Also, how often should it be consumed. I take 1000 mg in the morning, right after I get up and another 1000 mg with dinner. Is there an optimal dosage? I imagine that the brands don't vary much, I am using the cheap Target stuff. Is there a particular brand which is best - best in terms of levels of DHA / EPA, etc.

[kenj]

I take 1600mg EPA, and 400mg DHA (Nordic Naturals) divided in two doses/day, and eat fish twice/week.

[rebuild101]

Is there an optimal dosage?

From what I've heard, I would aim for about 1.5 grams of EPA. I would, however, like to see the actual research on this and other fish oil experiments. It's just setting aside time to search pub med =P

No idea on the brands, but would also really like to know. I wouldn't think some would be more effective. Yet, maybe some have less mercury? Not sure...

[theta]

http://www.amarincor...raxion.421.html

Not sure how to direct link the flash video on that page but it explains some mechanism on how omega-3's might help the brain.

I think excessive mercury contamination in refined fish oil should be a rare thing today. Even a few years ago a study showed there was no major problem with mercury in fish oil supplements. I think manufactures have got more aggressive at removing fishy odors and as result they are removing most the mercury in the refinement process. I'm not certain but they maybe vacuum distilling it?

[Ghostrider]

I read on wikipedia:

"For purchasing fish oil dietary supplements, it is highly recommended to seek a label certifying the product to be "molecularly distilled", USP Certified, and therefore free of mercury and other metal toxins." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_oil)

I noticed that the Target brand does not advertise this, however, I found another Costco substitute which does. I plan to switch to the Costco brand, unless there is a better choice.

[Ghostrider]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily. The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

[Matt]

After about three months of taking cod liver oil I was able to concentrate better, my memory improved significantly, I was calmer, less anxiety, I enjoyed learning and reading for the first time... Also my grades improved hugely too. I also used to have panic attacks which started when I was about 8... omega 3 seems to prevent them.

I was taking a cod liver oil which had fish oil mixed in. So far less vitamin A and high omega 3 content.

http://www.codlivero...hscloLiquid.htm

[theta]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily.  The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

I have been taking 6 grams daily of fish oil for over a year now.

[Ghostrider]

After about three months of taking cod liver oil I was able to concentrate better, my memory improved significantly, I was calmer, less anxiety, I enjoyed learning and reading for the first time... Also my grades improved hugely too.  I also used to have panic attacks which started when I was about 8... omega 3 seems to prevent them.

I was taking a cod liver oil which had fish oil mixed in. So far less vitamin A and high omega 3 content.

http://www.codlivero...hscloLiquid.htm

Interesting, looks like the bottled form has more EPA and DHA content per volume compared to the capsules.

[Ghostrider]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily.  The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

I have been taking 6 grams daily of fish oil for over a year now.

What brand do you take? I don't want to overdose on the vitamin A and D.

[Brainbox]

Interesting background article.

And another one.

Edited by brainbox, 14 October 2007 - 10:25 PM.

[david ellis]

Interesting background article.

And another one.

Good links brainbox. Impressive that omega3's helps violent people control themselves at 2 g/day. It takes 4 g/day for me to control my arhtritis. And lately a couple of ibuprofens.

[Brainbox]

Yup. Getting your diet (and basic supplementation) leveled is priority one as oposed to taking noots IMO. Also of interest is the iodine connection mentioned in the second link, but I honestly never bothered to look into that in detail since we have iodine added to our salt in our country.

[theta]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily.  The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

I have been taking 6 grams daily of fish oil for over a year now.

What brand do you take? I don't want to overdose on the vitamin A and D.

Springvalley (Walmart store brand). 1200 mg or 1000 mg gelcaps.
Omega-3 fish oil.

[brotherx]

Thanks for the links!

Cheers

Alex

Interesting background article.

And another one.

[Futurist1000]

This article has some interesting (technical info) about the "Neurobehavioral Aspects of
Omega-3 Fatty Acids" and its affect on brain chemistry (more in regards to depression, but still a good article on what occurs chemically in the brain when you have a deficiency).
Omega 3 (pdf file)

Table 3. Consequences of Omega-3 Deficiency in the
Central Nervous System
(decrease) Dopamine vesicle pool
(decrease) Dopamine content in frontal cortex
(decrease) Dopamine content in olfactory bulb
(increase) Dopamine content in nucleus accumbens (NA)
(decrease) Dopamine release from vesicle storage
(decrease) Normal inhibitory control over NA dopamine
(decrease) Vesicular monoamine transporter (VMAT2)
(decrease) Pre/post synaptic dopamine receptor DR2 in frontal cortex
(increase) Pre/post synaptic dopamine receptor DR2 in NA
(increase) Serotonin receptor (5HT2) density in frontal cortex
(compensatory response)
(decrease) Glucose uptake by neurons
(decrease) Neuronal cytochrome oxidase activity
(decrease) Blood-brain barrier integrity
(decrease) Normal cerebral microperfusion
(decrease) Sodium/potassium ATPase at nerve terminal
(decrease) Fluidity at surface polar membrane
(decrease) Phosphatidylserine in cortex, olfactory bulb, and
mitochondria
(decrease) Hippocampal CA1 pyramidal neuron cell body size

[Ghostrider]

Ahh, found it:

http://www.costco.co...&lang=en-US&s=1

[krillin]

No idea on the brands, but would also really like to know.  I wouldn't think some would be more effective. Yet, maybe some have less mercury? Not sure...

Pick one of these five-star brands. I use LEF's myself.

http://www.nutrasour.....ating Reports

[Ghostrider]

Umm, too late, ordered 3 bottles of the Costco stuff earlier today, got ripped off on the Express shipping though, damn I hate UPS.

[ortcloud]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily.  The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

I have been taking 6 grams daily of fish oil for over a year now.

What brand do you take? I don't want to overdose on the vitamin A and D.

Springvalley (Walmart store brand). 1200 mg or 1000 mg gelcaps.
Omega-3 fish oil.

how much is that epa and dha ?

[mike250]

No idea on the brands, but would also really like to know.  I wouldn't think some would be more effective. Yet, maybe some have less mercury? Not sure...

Pick one of these five-star brands. I use LEF's myself.

http://www.nutrasour.....ating Reports

I noticed carlson isn't one of the brands up there.

[Agarikon]

QUOTE: "For purchasing fish oil dietary supplements, it is highly recommended to seek a label certifying the product to be "molecularly distilled", USP Certified, and therefore free of mercury and other metal toxins." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_oil)


The mercury in fish is found in the muscle, because it binds to protien.

http://www.princeton...itchen_9_06.htm


Out of 41 fish oil supplements tested, none were contaminated.

http://findarticles....16/ai_n11493641

[theta]

By the way, I looked around and in order to get 1.5 grams a day of EPA, one would have to take about 9 capsules of fish oil daily.  The three brands that I surveyed only offer about 180 mg of EPA per capsule.

I have been taking 6 grams daily of fish oil for over a year now.

What brand do you take? I don't want to overdose on the vitamin A and D.

Springvalley (Walmart store brand). 1200 mg or 1000 mg gelcaps.
Omega-3 fish oil.

how much is that epa and dha ?

Total
1080 mg EPA
720 mg DHA

[stillalive]

I have always heard fish oil is so good for you, but it haven't helped me much. But now I understand, the amounts needed is much more than you normaly take.

How diffrent is it really to get Omega 3 from food, dosen't it convert to EPA/DHA or is the procces too ineffective?

I think I could get a lot of Omega 3 from food sources, so it would at least be a addition to the amount you can get from supplements.

[Ghostrider]

Not sure how much EPA / DHA is in a good diet (without fish). So far, Omega 3 seems to be the best nootropic that I have tried, however, that's not saying much. I view Omega3 as more like brain fuel than a nootropic.

[rabagley]

Grass-fed beef is a decent source of Omega-3's, though you have to make certain that the cow's diet was mostly or exclusively grass (some grain in the winter is nearly unavoidable, and not a problem).

Most cattle are raised on grass for six months after weaning, then shipped off to the CAFO where they get grain + roughage + antibiotics + hormones for the rest of their sad lives. This results in higher intramuscular fat content (marbling), higher levels of saturated fat (30%+ instead of 10%) and MUCH lower ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 fatty acids (1:20 instead of 1:3).

If, instead, the cow feeds on grass from weaning to slaughter, the fat content in the meat is lower, and the fats you do consume are much better for you. Also makes for a happier cow, which matters to me.

I'm in southern California, and there are several "Wild Oats" stores that carry certified grass-fed beef. I haven't seen it in too many other places. Leaner meat, very slightly gamey (not nearly as strong as venison, my wife and I like the different flavor), broils well, takes marinades well, etc.

[ajnast4r]

No idea on the brands, but would also really like to know.  I wouldn't think some would be more effective. Yet, maybe some have less mercury? Not sure...

Pick one of these five-star brands. I use LEF's myself.

http://www.nutrasour.....ating Reports

that list is missing a lot of the top brands.