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#61 hamishm00

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:20 AM

I'm not going there. The religious overtones of your post certainly sit well with what constitutes nothing much more than patronising pious pontification.

Hahahah you're lecturing us on how skepticism stopped us thinking the sky was going to fall on our heads when there was thunder, and it tought us that the world was round and that garlic was good to cook with etc. Thanks for that little slice of enlightenment.

I'm really not going to dump hundreds of links about EPA on this forum, I think www.google.com is a better place for someone to start on THIS particular topic.

#62 eternaltraveler

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 10:38 AM

yes, I'm quite the religious one :))

So. Ok. Fair enough. You don't think it's worth it discussing on this forum. I can respect your position.

So you're here discussing it because....?

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#63 hamishm00

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:05 PM

Because other people were linking in products that they thought were good. So did I. I didn't really want to get involved in lengthy discussions about the placebo effect and the benefits of skepticism.

I apologise for being so abrasive in my previous posts, but I think the way the responses came to my simple post were a bit OTT.

If you want to start talking about EPA vs DHA, maybe I'll be up for that.

#64 quarter

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:24 PM

So is it really preferable to have zero DHA. I will soon be looking for a replacement for my Nutrasea HP because 1stvitality.co.uk stopped selling it and this PuraEPA stuff is accessible to me in the uk? But it has slightly less EPA and obviously no DHA (but it is a little cheaper).

Nutrasea HP - 4caps - 2300mg Omega 3 - 1500mg EPA - 500mg DHA

PuraEPA - 4caps - 1200mg EPA - 0 DHA - 100mg Borage Oil - 15mg Vit E

I have no idea of the usefulness or otherwise of the Borage Oil.

Is PuraEPA a good alternative?

#65 rabagley

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:51 PM

If you want to start talking about EPA vs DHA, maybe I'll be up for that.


I'm up for that. It's my understanding that DHA is the more important fatty acid (NATURWISSENSCHAFTEN; Turner,N; 90(11):521-523 (2003)). EPA has an immune-suppressive effect, whereas DHA acts as an anti-inflammatory (LIPIDS 33(2):171-180 (1998)). Also, your body's ability to synthesize DHA from EPA is very limited, consumes huge amounts of Vitamin E, and gets more limited with age, so the importance of directly supplementing DHA is important for everyone and increases radically with age. Finally, pregnancies in the third trimester (PEDIATRIC RESEARCH 40(5):687-694 (1996)) and breastfeeding mothers (LANCET 339:261-264 (1992)) have a DHA demand substantially above their ability to synthesize it from EPA.

References in the above paragraph come from an easy to google survey article.

Though I've done quite a bit of reading about essential fatty acids through the years, your mention that DHA interferes with EPA is the very first time I've heard of that. Can you provide some references to the studies which observed the interference of DHA with EPA? Especially given that DHA is the fatty acid our brains and bodies need more?

I'm speculating that some company decided to do something different in making a value-added fish oil product and came up with a story that favored what they could profitably do (EPA only) over everything else (EPA, DHA, and other Omega-3's).

#66 rabagley

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:53 PM

So is it really preferable to have zero DHA.

No. With the current body of knowledge regarding essential fatty acids, DHA is what your body desperately needs, and can only make for itself in limited quantities.

http://www.benbest.com/health/dha.html

Until the evidence swings strongly against DHA (unlikely), a balanced fish oil capsule is better for you.

#67 krillin

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 04:59 PM

I too prefer to hedge my bets by taking both EPA and DHA. DHA looks like it could be better for preventing heart disease.

Atherosclerosis. 2007 Jul;193(1):1-10.
Tissue n-3 and n-6 fatty acids and risk for coronary heart disease events.
Harris WS, Poston WC, Haddock CK.
Sanford School of Medicine, University of South Dakota, Sioux Falls, SD, United States. bill.harris@usd.edu

BACKGROUND: Tissue proportions of long chain n-6 [especially arachidonic acid (AA)] and n-3 fatty acids [FA; eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) acids], or some ratio of these may be markers of risk for coronary heart disease (CHD). The purpose of this paper is to evaluate the published associations between risk for CHD events and tissue n-3 and n-6 FA composition. METHODS: Case-control or prospective cohort data sets examining the risk for CHD endpoints as a function of tissue FA composition were identified. Effect sizes were computed for case versus control comparisons using standard meta-analytic methods. RESULTS: Twenty-five studies were included, 18 examining the FA composition of phospholipid-rich and 7 of triglyceride-rich samples. DHA, with or without EPA, was significantly lower in cases than controls in all studies combined, in those with fatal endpoints, in those with prospective designs, and in both tissue types. The only setting where increased AA was associated with case status was in adipose tissue. The AA/EPA ratio in phospholipid-rich samples did not distinguish cases from controls. Lower linoleic acid content was associated with increased risk for non-fatal events. CONCLUSIONS: The long-chain n-3 FA, especially DHA, were consistently and significantly reduced in patients experiencing CHD events. These findings add further support to the view that long-chain n-3 FA are cardioprotective.

PMID: 17507020

#68 theta

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:06 PM

I'm really not going to dump hundreds of links about EPA on this forum, I think www.google.com is a better place for someone to start on THIS particular topic.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/sites/entrez

Links to abstracts of real studies would be preferred.Fancy websites
that make claims that have not been published in a peer review journals with abstracts in medline database are no more meaningful
than individual reports from nameless, faceless people that come and go on internet forums daily. Just one large study not funded by a maker of fish oil that compared high ratio EPA to DHA to the common 180:120 ratio that demonstrated that the high purity EPA was superior for any condition to normal fish oil would be nice start.

#69 rabagley

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 05:26 PM

In that survey article I quoted above, I did find that DHA helps to moderate the immunosuppressive effects of EPA. If that's the "DHA interferes with EPA" you're talking about, then that's pretty tragic. The DHA is protecting you from the EPA.

Just one large study would do the trick for me.

#70 hamishm00

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:08 PM

I'm really not going to dump hundreds of links about EPA on this forum, I think www.google.com is a better place for someone to start on THIS particular topic.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....ov/sites/entrez

Links to abstracts of real studies would be preferred.Fancy websites
that make claims that have not been published in a peer review journals with abstracts in medline database are no more meaningful
than individual reports from nameless, faceless people that come and go on internet forums daily. Just one large study not funded by a maker of fish oil that compared high ratio EPA to DHA to the common 180:120 ratio that demonstrated that the high purity EPA was superior for any condition to normal fish oil would be nice start.


NCBI??? whatt??? never seen that before! hahaaha [wis]

#71 rabagley

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 07:08 PM

I've been trying to follow the claims made by the PuraEPA makers, but I can't locate the specific studies that they refer to. Also, the two studies that they describe in the greatest detail were pretty small (s=70).

Now, what they claimed they studied was pure EPA vs placebo to treat depression. They got a positive result. They casually mention another study where they compared pure DHA vs placebo for depression, which had no significant result.

They mention that they didn't study EPA and DHA as found in fish oil because they "felt" the purer the EPA, the more effective it was. Um, okay.

Problems that I see:

1) their study is evaluating EPA as a treatment for depression, not for any other effect.
2) they don't report studying anything other than pure EPA vs placebo, so there's no substantiation for the assertion that EPA with DHA is less effective than EPA alone.
3) they avoid providing quickly traceable references to their published data.
4) most of the world isn't taking Omega-3 fatty acids to cure depression but to supplement a diet now deficient in Omega-3's.

The claim that EPA is superior to EPA & DHA for dietary supplementation is entirely unsupported, even by their own poorly substantiated data.

Basically, they ignore a large, established body of information about the benefits of DHA and EPA together to promote an unsubstantiated, weakly documented single-effect benefit for EPA alone, and then are prepared to sell you their "scientifically superior" product that's superior to everything else out there.

Dude, you've been had. This is snake oil of the most comical proportions.

#72 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 12:58 AM

OK, since (in my view) we are in fairly unchartered waters, and you guys are so convinced that a DHA/EPA blend is superior to pure EPA, DISPROVE this argument:

Pharmaceutical-Grade EPA, not DHA, for Healthy Mood and Thought
Patterns


The common thinking on the different functions of the different
omega-3s is: EPA for the heart, DHA for the brain.


There's a reasonable-sounding argument behind this notion, based on
the fact that DHA (docosahexaenoic acid, or 22:6w3) is a major
component of the brain, while there's only a tiny amount of EPA
(eicosapentaenoic acid, or 20:5w3) in the nervous system. So when
research started to show that countries and individuals who consumed
more fish seemed more resistant to depression, schizophrenia, seasonal
affective disorder (SAD), and bipolar disorder, almost everyone leapt
to the conclusion that the seaborne secret just had to be DHA.


Not that it made any practical difference, of course: after all,
nearly all EPA and DHA supplements come in the form of concentrated
fish oil softgels with a significant amount of both fatty acids. So,
the assumption was, you could get both benefits in one pill by just
taking a common fish oil supplement.


Nice-sounding theory. But, as a series of randomized,
placebo-controlled, clinical trials have shown, dead wrong.


Running our expectations through the spin cycle, resent research has
revealed that DHA is, at best, useless when it comes to supporting the
health of your thought patterns and outlook on the world. Worse: DHA
may even be counterproductive. Surprisingly, EPA turns out to be the
real slayer of the "Noonday Demons."


DHA: Brain Fat? Or Fat Chance?
• In one trial, researchers tested the effects of pure DHA on victims
of clinical depression. For six weeks, people suffering with major
depression took a supplement containing either pure DHA (two grams (2
000 milligrams) a day or an inactive stand-in oil for six weeks. At
the end of the trial, DHA had exerted no detectable effect whatsoever.


• In an even more pointed failure, researchers ran a trial to see if
DHA supplements could prevent the depression and deficits in
information processing associated with postpartum depression. This
seemed like an especially good opportunity for DHA to strut its stuff,
because women's levels of DHA usually decline late in their
pregnancies, and they remain depressed for months after the birth of
their child. Instead, the results were a complete flop. Women taking
DHA supplements were no less depressed, and no better able to process
information, than were women taking an inert fatty acid softgel, even
though their DHA levels were much higher.


• A third trial sought to lay plain the differing effects of EPA and
DHA on thought patterns and mental functioning – focusing this time on
people suffering from schizophrenia. Forty-five people diagnosed with
the disease were randomly assigned to begin using either two grams of
high-EPA oil, the same amount of high-DHA oil, or a corn oil placebo,
with no one knowing who was taking what.


The results in the DHA group were surprising. At best, they had gotten
no better than people on the dummy pill. And overall, in fact, the
subjects administered DHA appeared to fare worse than in the placebo
group. Although the differences did not reach the statistical level of
significance, there was actually a higher percentage of people taking
DHA who were either treading water or showing further decay at the end
of the trial than was seen with the placebo. On top of this, whereas
the severity of so-called "positive" symptoms (delusions, psychoses,
etc) had fallen by an average of 13.7% in patients taking the placebo,
it was only reduced by 3.3% in DHA-treated subjects. In other words,
it appears that patients get more relief from their "positive"
symptoms if they take an inactive dummy pill than if they take DHA –
suggesting that DHA may even interfere with the progress that they
could otherwise make if they just continue with their conventional
treatment.


It was a whole different picture in the pure EPA group. Every single
one of the people who had taken the EPA-only supplement got better,
with an even split between the number of people showing considerable
improvements (more than 25%) on their symptom scores and the number
showing more minor improvements.


• To make sure the results hadn't been some kind of wild fluke, the
same group initiated a second trial to confirm the powers of EPA-only
supplements. For three months, 30 relapsing schizophrenia sufferers
who were not already taking drugs for their conditions took either
straight EPA or placebo capsules as their sole encapsulated support –
unless, during the course of the trial, their doctors deemed it
clinically imperative to put them on antipsychotics, in which case the
patients' safety came first and medication was permitted. But no one
would know who was getting EPA, and who was taking the stand-in oil
capsules. At the end of the trial, 100% of the people taking the dummy
pill had been forced to go on an antipsychotic drug – versus only 57%
of the EPA users.


The Power of EPA Confirmed


Since then, three more randomized, placebo-controlled trials have been
performed using highly purified EPA supplements to help people with
schizophrenia – and two such trials have been performed in victims of
clinical depression. There have also been an additional two studies in
schizophrenics, and an additional one in victims of depression, using
either very high doses of omega-3 supplements containing mostly EPA
(but still including some DHA), or such a supplement combined with
antioxidants.


All but one of these eight trials showed that the EPA-containing
supplements brought relief from these mental torments – and in that
one trial, the problem seems to have been the use of excessively high
doses.


• In one trial, for instance, 20 patients with major depressive
disorder were randomly given either 2 grams of pure EPA or a matching
stand-in for four weeks. Even in this short period, sixty percent of
the people taking pure EPA experienced a remarkable 50% or greater
reduction in their scores of depression, versus just ten percent of
people taking the placebo. On average, the relief was clocked as a
remarkable 12.4 point improvement on the Hamilton depression scale
scores in EPA users – versus just a 1.6 point improvement among people
stuck with the lookalike pills.


Summarizing the evidence from these reports, the lead researcher in
the trial which originally identified the opposing effects of EPA and
DHA concluded that "In both schizophrenia and depression, the studies
indicate that DHA is, if anything, rather worse than placebo in its
effects on symptomology. Only EPA has given significant positive
benefits."


Bipolar Disorder
Harvard Medical School performed a double-blind, placebo-controlled
trial using high-dose fish oil supplements in 30 people trapped in
bipolar disorder ("manic depression") in 1999, using the amount of
long-chain omega-3s found in 32 standard fish oil capsules. At the end
of the study, 86% of the people who had been taking the megadose
EPA-containing oil were still free of relapse – versus only 38% of the
people taking the placebo. Based on the research showing that DHA is
at best an empty filler, and may even undermine the effects of EPA in
schizophrenia and depression, the reason that the study required so
much omega-3 may be that the high content of DHA in the supplement
would have forced people to take still higher amount of EPA to make it
effective. Dr. Andrew Stoll, the lead investigator in the Harvard
bipolar trial, says that his "clinical observation" is that "too much
DHA relative to EPA may cause a worsening of mood. I therefore
recommend using a supplement with as high an EPA content as possible".


Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
Having seen the convincing results experienced by EPA users with other
disorders of the mind and personality, scientists initiated a pilot
randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of EPA in 30 women
plagued by BPD. The results were not earth-shattering – but they were
significant. While symptoms improved in both groups, BPD sufferers
taking the pure EPA supplements experienced greater reductions in both
depression (about 15% more improved) and aggression (a 10% additional
improvement) than did victims taking the placebo.


While the responses were not overwhelming, they were real – and it's
worth remembering that BPD doesn't respond well to conventional drug
therapies, either. Any relief from the nightmare of this disease
represents an advance. Additionally, the dose in this pilot study may
not have been optimal, and the authors called for "Studies assessing
different doses of E-EPA for longer periods of time in larger
samples".


What's the Story on these Morning Glories?
What is the key function of EPA in the brain that underlies its
ability to support the health of the mind? The truth is, we don't know
– at least, not with certainty. But we do have a good working
hypothesis. Pioneering essential fatty acid researcher Ralph Holman
put the core insight succinctly: "DHA is structure. EPA is function."


DHA is an essential structural component of nerve cells, needed in
large amounts to build the brain during embryonic and childhood
development. But once the brain and nervous system has matured, the
developed brain's day-to-day DHA needs are minimal.


By contrast, although only a small amount of EPA is present in brain
cell membranes at any given time, that small quantity is continuously
being used up, necessitating ongoing replacement. EPA is quickly
"turned over" as the brain ceaselessly releases EPA from its cell
membranes for use in "signal transduction," conveying neurochemical
messages within neurons just as neurotransmitters like serotonin and
dopamine carry messages between them. EPA also fine-tunes and balances
the signaling carried out by the brain's main omega-6 fat, arachidonic
acid (AA). Because EPA is biochemically consumed in the process of
carrying out its signal transduction role, the brain has a need for a
large, steady supply of new EPA to keep functioning optimally.


The reason why DHA might actually worsen symptoms in people with mood
and thought pattern disorders is less clear, but may simply be a
matter of displacement. There's only so much "room" available for
unsaturated fatty acids in the phospholipids of the brain's cellular
membranes, and taking extra DHA (which is already plentiful in the
brain) may squeeze out EPA by competing with it for the limited number
of spots available to be filled when these phospholipids are being
biosynthesized. Taking EPA supplements, by contrast, guarantees that
the brain can meet its needs for a continuous, reliable supply of EPA,
ensuring that adequate EPA is available when the brain needs it for
signal transduction.


However it works, the evidence is clear. People looking to harness the
power of omega-3 fatty acids for the health of their brains should
look to supplements rich in EPA – and with as little DHA as possible.


The Wonky Well
Clinical depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and borderline
personality disorder are serious illnesses which require qualified
medical diagnosis and treatment. For people suffering with these
disorders, the new research on EPA is very good news: with physician
guidance, it suggests, high doses of this biologically essential
orthomolecule in purified form may complement the conventional
therapies already prescribed by their doctors.


Fortunately, of course, most of us do not suffer from such extreme
psychic disturbances. But that doesn't mean that our minds are as
clear, our feelings as stable, our responses to the world as
reasonable, or our outlooks on life as bright as they could be – or
should be, for our own health and happiness. We don't just want to be
"non-insane," in other words: we want to be dynamically engaged with
life, grasping the world in both hands and squeezing forth its sweet
nectar. The good news, this research suggests, is that when not
encumbered by DHA, pharmaceutical-grade EPA supplements can open your
brain to the real possibilities around you, shattering the "mind
forg'd manacles" that are holding you back from experiencing life's
joys to their fullest.


References
Peet M, Brind J, Ramchand CN, Shah S, Vankar GK. Two double-blind
placebo-controlled pilot studies of eicosapentaenoic acid in the
treatment of schizophrenia. Schizophr Res. 2001 Apr 30;49(3):243-51.


Peet M, Horrobin DF. A dose-ranging study of the effects of
ethyl-eicosapentaenoate in patients with ongoing depression despite
apparently adequate treatment with standard drugs. Arch Gen
Psychiatry. 2002 Oct;59(10):913-9.


Peet M. Eicosapentaenoic acid in the treatment of schizophrenia and
depression: rationale and preliminary double-blind clinical trial
results. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2003
Dec;69(6):477-85.


Stoll AL, Locke CA, Marangell LB, Severus WE. Omega-3 fatty acids and
bipolar disorder: a review. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids.
1999 May-Jun;60(5-6):329-37.


Zanarini MC, Frankenburg FR. Omega-3 Fatty acid treatment of women
with borderline personality disorder: a double-blind,
placebo-controlled pilot study. Am J Psychiatry. 2003
Jan;160(1):167-9.
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#73 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 01:05 AM

Dude, you've been had.  This is snake oil of the most comical proportions.


In light of my last post, let's explore that statement with your evidence to debunk the argument above and the studies cited therein. Really looking forward to your response.

#74 rabagley

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 03:35 AM

That's pretty much what I read from the puraEPA website. Just based on what you've posted, my noted problems remain quite relevant (with a few updates).

1) their study is evaluating EPA as a treatment for depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder (all mental health issues), not for any other effect.
2) they don't report studying anything other than pure EPA vs placebo and DHA vs placebo so there's no substantiation for the assertion that EPA with DHA is less effective than EPA alone.
3) they avoid providing quickly traceable references to their published data. (fixed, thank you)
4) most of the world isn't taking Omega-3 fatty acids to cure depression but to supplement a diet now deficient in Omega-3's.

So, the conclusion also remains. They've swindled you. I'd try to get my money back if I were you.

#75 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:57 AM

That's quite a conclusion, based on your third point having been shot out the window. Your point numbers 1 and 3 is a somewhat bemusing as well: note the heading of this part of the forum: "nootropics and brain enhancers". That's like saying we shouldn't discuss hydergine here because it's used as a treatment for dementia.

You also have no substantiation for EPA/DHA being beter than EPA alone.

EPA will provide for all your DHA needs.

Edited by hamishm00, 31 October 2007 - 12:19 PM.


#76 theta

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 04:13 PM

You also have no substantiation for EPA/DHA being beter than EPA alone.


Or vice versa.

#77 rabagley

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 04:29 PM

It's your assertion that DHA interferes with EPA.
It's your assertion that we should stop purchasing EPA contaminated with DHA (fish oil) and instead purchase EPA that contains Borage oil.

The research you provided (via the puraEPA website) shows that EPA is useful in treating depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.

The research you provided does not show that puraEPA is superior to fish oil for treating depression, schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder.

The research you provided does not show that DHA interferes with EPA.

puraEPA completely failed to substantiate their claim that their "pure EPA" product is superior to high quality fish oil. Since your argument is based on their argument, you also have failed to substantiate any of your claims about pure EPA being better than fish oil.

As for my third problem being "shot down", it was the only one of my issues that was fixable. The fact that I had difficulty finding the references to their studies didn't mean that they didn't exist. It just looked bad. Now that you've provided the references to their studies, it's now completely clear that their studies don't support their claims. I guess they were hoping that people wouldn't figure that out.

EPA will provide for all your DHA needs.

Please substantiate this claim. This survey article http://www.benbest.com/health/dha.html makes it clear that while endogenous DHA synthesis can meet minimal DHA needs for the young, male, and not pregnant, exogenous DHA sources are necessary for the older, female, pregnant, or breastfeeding. Also, more than minimal levels of DHA result in functional improvement of the heart, kidneys, and liver.

You believed the snake oil salesman, and the cognitive dissonance is preventing you from seeing your error. But you are fundamentally incorrect. Just as incorrect as people who say that we need DHA and not EPA (these people also exist). If you haven't figured it out by now, I suggest you keep going back over the data until you get it. But don't ask more questions because all of the information you need is in your post and my response.

Edited by rabagley, 31 October 2007 - 04:40 PM.


#78 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 05:08 PM

To quote you:

"The research you provided (via the puraEPA website) shows that EPA is useful in treating depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder."

Not bad for snake oil..

#79 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 05:17 PM


You also have no substantiation for EPA/DHA being beter than EPA alone.


Or vice versa.


That's correct.

#80 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 05:25 PM

So where's the science on the conversion (endogenous) from EPA to DHA?

#81 platypus

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 06:13 PM

So where's the science on the conversion (endogenous) from EPA to DHA?

So what are the pure EPA sources in nature that we've supposedly evolved to use?

#82 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 06:29 PM

FIsh oil contains EPA (pure), naturally. There's your answer. There is other stuff in there yes, but there's also say other stuff in an orange, but the vitamin c in an orange is taken in pill form.

It's the same argument.

#83 theta

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 07:06 PM

Not bad for snake oil..


A researcher tested a snake and they do have quite abit of omega-3
fat content. ;) Though less than fish.

#84 rabagley

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 09:24 PM

So where's the science on the conversion (endogenous) from EPA to DHA?

You were the one who said that EPA can cover all of your DHA needs. While it is common knowledge that your body can synthesize small quantities of DHA from EPA, it's how much your body can synthesize that's the important question.

Full.

Stop.

You know what? I'm done.

I was the only one interested in holding your hand through the basic logic of debunking puraEPA's claims. That's over with. From this point on, you're going to have to take some personal responsibility for your own learning from here on out.

In the meantime, based only on what you've told us, I would recommend that you stop spending your hard-earned money on puraEPA, and spend a great deal less money on a high quality Omega-3 fish oil.

It's got EPA, with all of the benefits you already know about (and a number of other benefits that puraEPA never mentions). It's got DHA, with a whole raft of benefits you apparently never knew were possible. It also has other Omega-3 fatty acids in trace quantities with their own benefits. Finally, it lacks a supplemental Omega-6 fatty acid (via the Borage oil) which is already too common in the modern diet.

And don't worry about communicating to us that you've figured things out and caught up. We'll know when you start asking better questions.

Good luck!

#85 hamishm00

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:11 PM

Nice and patronising. I see you're also taking drugs that give you delusions of grandeur. Can you tell us all what that is? I would love to get a hold of some of that stuff, so I could be a blissfully self-fulfilled tosser like you come across (not saying that you are one in real life, it's just your delightful manner you display in your posts).

I really don't have time to 'fish' out all the hardcore evidence you want to substantiate why I think Pure EPA is the way to go mentally and physically, with occasional EPA/DHA supplementation (which I do, using a product called EYE-Q), for a healthy young male. I do hedge my bets that way.

Not convinced of your arguments to the infallible extent you are, so yes:

WE

ARE

DONE.

[dramatic pause, like anyone gives a sod]

The end.

#86 platypus

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 01:21 PM

FIsh oil contains EPA (pure), naturally. There's your answer. There is other stuff in there yes, but there's also say other stuff in an orange, but the vitamin c in an orange is taken in pill form.

It's the same argument.

Fish oil contains also DHA naturally, doesn't it?

http://en.wikipedia....ahexaenoic_acid

#87 bran319

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 02:15 PM

It makes zero sense to use a EPA only oil when nature intended for us to ingest DHA along with it. I'll stick to my Cod Liver Oil.

#88 hamishm00

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 05:48 PM

Cod liver oil? You'll never get the DHA/EPA you need without overdosing on vit A.

#89 Matt

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 08:59 PM

Cod liver oil? You'll never get the DHA/EPA you need without overdosing on vit A.


Yes you can
http://www.codlivero...h/xtrahsclo.htm

There is one brand of Cod Liver Oil and it only contains around 2000IU of Vitamin A but Providing 2800mg of Omega-3

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#90 bran319

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 10:10 PM

Cod liver oil? You'll never get the DHA/EPA you need without overdosing on vit A.



Wrong.

There are oils out there that have had the Vit. A content reduced.

Even if this weren't the case I'd just take a high quality fish oil instead.




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