84 replies to this topic

[StrangeAeons]

The medicine you are taking, zyprexa, lowers dopaminergic stimulation in the brain. Using another medicine / supplement to increase dopamine might not be a good idea, if there is a good reason why you are on long term zyprexa treatment.
...
So make an appointment and hear em out =)

Dude! You are lapping up the dated paradigms of psychiatry like a voracious dog. The dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia is shaky and incomplete. Did you even know that atypical antipsychotics like Zyprexa act on a wide range of neurotransmitters? I have a friend who works at Eli Lilly doing medical writing, she showed me one of their propaganda studies (my impression, but she didn't disagree) that says it shows activity at histamine, GABA and norepinephrine receptors. It likely also shows activity at the orexin/hypocretin receptors; this peptide neurotransmitter has only recently been discovered and may play a significant role in the sedation and weight gain associated with antipsychotics.
Oh yeah, a little more importantly:
you went manic on Zoloft, an SSRI. Zyprexia shows activity at D2 and 5HT(read: serotonin) recptor subtype 2A. Even though the document acknowledged its activity at various other receptors, they honed in on these two because DA supports the hypothesis, and 5HT antagonism makes it look like depression (treated with indirect 5HT agonism) and psychosis are opposing symptoms-- while clearly they can stem from the same pathology. All atypical antipsychotics affect serotonin. You could try tianeptine, which has a mechanism directly opposing SSRI's.

In the meantime, if somebody is truly psychotic I am strongly under the impression that anticonvulsants such as valproic acid and carbamazepine, as well as newer atypicals like Lamictal, are a much safer route-- though still with significant drawbacks. Another important thing is to look at drug interactions. Psychiatrists seem to be completely oblivious to Cytochrome P450 interactions. Wikipedia has a nice list of various substrates, inducers, and inhibitors. These interactions can result in too much or too little of various drugs in the bloodstream.

One of the worst aspects of American psychiatry is that the doctors need you to believe, need to even believe themselves, that they really understand the tools they are working with. Press any psychiatrist hard enough and they will admit that they CANNOT correlate their observations of your cognitive and behavioral symptoms with what is occurring in your brain, and that even if they could they could not necessarily treat that pathology with their pharmacopeia.

The more complete dopamine hypothesis indicates that there is also a deficiency of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, resulting in the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. This is one reason I am pushing very hard on the forums for an investigation and possible bulk purchase of dihydrexidine, a full D1 receptor agonist. Dihydrexidine has been demonstrated to be safe and well tolerated in schizophrenics. The simple theory of "too much dopamine" has been blown to smithereens. There are four dopamine pathways: mesocortical, mesolimbic, tuberofundibular, and nigrostriatal. Only the mesolimbic system AFAIK is implicated in acute psychosis. This is why antipsychotics, which also target the other pathways, cause extrapyrimidal symptoms, tardive dyskinesia, and hyperprolactinemia (save for abilify, which is a whole different story) among other things.
Even then, targeting just this pathway causes emotional blunting, and I think that ultimately the schizophrenic portion of our society needs advocacy for better research and a cure. There's all this advocacy and uproar about autism awareness, yet schizophrenia affects a greater portion of the population-- especially when you consider prodrome and cluster A personality disorders, who may suffer from a similar pathology. There is now less stigma around the developmentally challenged than the mentally ill. But I'll get off my soapbox about that one...

[Yearningforyears]

*barks*

I´ve read some things about the other effects of zyprexa but it is as you say. We have to believe in something and what we believe in is highly influenced by the drug industry. They are the ones who do the drug research and, for some odd reason, are allowed to not make all information accessible for the public. How strange is that?
It sucks to realize that everything that has been learned will have to be re-learned. On the other hand it´s very convenient to be the fooled one
Interesting post!

[Yearningforyears]

*barks*

I´ve read some things about the other effects of zyprexa but it is as you say. We have to believe in something and what we believe in is highly influenced by the drug industry. They are the ones who do the drug research and, for some odd reason, are allowed to not make all information accessible for the public. How strange is that?
It sucks to realize that everything that has been learned will have to be re-learned. On the other hand it´s very convenient to be the fooled one
Interesting post!

[StrangeAeons]

actually a good deal of this information is open to the public, but so entrenched in journal articles that your average mental patient likely would not think to look for it. You'd have to be really obsessive or something to dig that deep . Still, the studies I looked at are not internal documents, they are published journal articles. If you want to see some internal documents on Zyprexa, as well as some of the nasty stuff it's done, look up the wikipedia article. Lily lost nearly a billion dollars settling Zyprexa lawsuits.

[Lufega]

Ziggy,

I read your first post again and I did not realize how similar my experience is to yours. In fact, I think you and I should communitate more closely to see if you can find a common link (Previous infection, chemical exposure, etc.) that can explain our similiar conditions. Really. Like you, my problems started at around 16-17 (curiously, after I got MONO). It has been down hill since. I also freaked when I learned about anhedonia (which I had for years!) and thought I too was developing schizo. But I no longer think this is the case for me. However, unlike you I struggled through college and suffered man...suffered so much but somehow manage to get into Medical school. I've been suffering there too! My brain just doesn't work. I took time off from school to figure this out and I'm confident I've made some progress.

I also had the problem not of reaching orgasm during sex. In fact, this was a big problem for me! Girls I dated hated it! They figured I wasn't into them or something. Can you imagine having to stop in the middle of a session because you can't cum? I could never explain that and I faked an orgasm many times. (HAHAHA, and you thought only women did this?) One girl I dated was clever enough to look down at the condom and see if I had ejaculated. Anyways, I found this was due to low dopamine. When I started using Tyrosine this problem improved. So did the issues with lack of motivation, focus, etc. I also have social anxiety and this was found to be caused by low D2 activity in the mesocortical pathway. Again, this is related to dopamine. Increasing dopamine has really helped me. I started using selegiline and that has helped me further.

I also learned that schizo and parkinson's are not just about High and Low dopamine, respectively. In schizo, you have both High dopamine activity in D1 neurons (causing positive symptoms) and low dopamine in D2 (causing negative). Normally, activity in D1 is low and in D2 is higher, but this is reversed.

There was a study that found a dopamine alteration in the mesocorticolimbic pathway in Omega 3 deficiency.

The dopamine mesocorticolimbic pathway is affected by deficiency in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids.
Zimmer L, Vancassel S, Cantagrel S, Breton P, Delamanche S, Guilloteau D, Durand G, Chalon S.

INSERM U316, Laboratoire de Biophysique Médicale et Pharmaceutique, Université François Rabelais, Tours, France.

BACKGROUND: Several findings in humans support the hypothesis of links between n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) status and psychiatric diseases. OBJECTIVE: The involvement of PUFAs in central nervous system function can be assessed with the use of dietary manipulation in animal models. We studied the effects of chronic dietary n-3 PUFA deficiency on mesocorticolimbic dopamine neurotransmission in rats. DESIGN: Using dual-probe microdialysis, we analyzed dopamine release under amphetamine stimulation simultaneously in the frontal cortex and the nucleus accumbens. The messenger RNA (mRNA) expression of vesicular monoamine transporter(2) and dopamine D(2) receptor was studied with the use of in situ hybridization. The protein expression of the synthesis-limiting enzyme tyrosine 3-monooxygenase (tyrosine 3-hydroxylase) was studied with the use of immunocytochemistry. RESULTS: Dopamine release was significantly lower in both cerebral areas in n-3 PUFA-deficient rats than in control rats, but this effect was abolished in the frontal cortex and reversed in the nucleus accumbens by reserpine pretreatment, which depletes the dopamine vesicular storage pool. The mRNA expression of vesicular monoamine transporter(2) was lower in both cerebral areas in n-3 PUFA-deficient rats than in control rats, whereas the mRNA expression of D(2) receptor was lower in the frontal cortex and higher in the nucleus accumbens in n-3 PUFA-deficient rats than in control rats. Finally, tyrosine 3-monooxygenase immunoreactivity was higher in the ventral tegmental area in n-3 PUFA-deficient rats than in control rats. CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that the mesolimbic dopamine pathway is more active whereas the mesocortical pathway is less active in n-3 PUFA-deficient rats than in control rats. This provides new neurochemical evidence supporting the effects of n-3 PUFA deficiency on behavior.

However, and this part sucks, another study found that unless you correct this deficiency in the early stages of development, the damage is irreversible. (Damn you mom and dad for not forcing Cod liver oil down my throat! )

http://www.ajcn.org/...stract/75/4/662

http://www.jlr.org/c...tract/43/8/1209

http://jn.nutrition....act/124/12/2466

Also, searching pubmed with the keywords "n-3 deficiency dopamine" yields 23 interesting studies.

You also find the same negative symptoms of schizo. in Parkinson's disease and social anxiety. The same exact thing and low D2 activity is the common factor.

Big pharma. will only promote a solution if it's patentable. In the meanwhile, there are things you can do now that can help you. For me, using magnesium, methyl B12, TTFD, fish oil (regardless of the irreversibility), tyrosine and now selegiline has helped me out. I'm also using a few nootropic that have helped.

Edit: Something else I forgot to mention. I determined I was mercury/heavy metal tox. through a hair mineral analysis and followed through by removing 5 mercury amalgams. I then started Cutler's chelation protocol (with the addition of Pectasol) and after a few sessions I noted an improvement in cognitive function that has not changed so I don't think it's a placebo effect.

Edited by Lufega, 08 December 2008 - 06:41 AM.

[NG_F]

Visit My Website

[russianBEAR]

Now I am resolved to try out different stuff and I came across substances like Deprenyl, Bupropion,
Apomorphin, Wellbutrin, SJWort
as well as Tongkat Ali and Maca for just the sexual (main) concern.


I am almost sure the dopamin-dependent brain functions might be the problem. What do you think?
If so, what regimen do you recommend?
I am eagerly awaiting any sorts of reply!

you will almost certainly get no benefit from any medication, your friends are happy and they dont take any medications right?

i believe you will have our answer when you are ready for it, and from this post it sounds like your looking in the wrong paths

Bingo. You can look at almost any condition or disease, even the one that affects 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the population and find enough symptoms to match whatever you're feeling/have felt throughout the day.


Sex is 100% a psychological phenomenon too, so I think you gotta take a look at how you were raised first, whether there was a functional family (both parents, performing their natural role, none of that single-mother feminist or abusive-single-father stuff) and all kinds of other background info that just wasn't there.

I know this beacause I've dealt and still dealing with some problems in a related area...and it's all in your head.

As far as those saying they'd rather have no libido at all - I'm willing to bet hard cash that these are emasculated males who would rather not deal with their fears they have over meeting and courting women. Of course no one likes to admit this stuff, so they just pretend like they're not interested in the first place...

So I think you gotta look other places, start with the background...I see it all too often - someone wanting to have pills prescribed for what they think is some ridiculous condition only to have the doctor suggest small non-medicational changes and it works...

[StrangeAeons]

Sex is 100% a psychological phenomenon too

Tell that to a diabetic, or a hypertensive, or somebody with a prolactinoma, or polycystic ovarian syndrome, or adrenal hyperplasia, or actual while we're at it, to a homosexual (not that it's a disease, but it is biologically determined).

[russianBEAR]

Sex is 100% a psychological phenomenon too

Tell that to a diabetic, or a hypertensive, or somebody with a prolactinoma, or polycystic ovarian syndrome, or adrenal hyperplasia, or actual while we're at it, to a homosexual (not that it's a disease, but it is biologically determined).

Ok, let me correct myself: In a normal "functional" being sex is 100% a psychological phenomenon. You're giving examples of dysfunctional conditions as if they're the rules, not unfortunate exceptions.


From the previous posts, there is no indication from the OP that there's any physical dysfunction...but stuff like "cleaning up my room is too much for me" (it's too much for me too sometimes) is an indication of a lack of order...that's why I asked about background information about parents, being raised a certain way, etc.

[StrangeAeons]

First of all, I started with causes of sexual dysfunction, but biology determines even sexual orientation or the varying gradations of libido within "normalcy" in the total absence of pathology. But I'm so glad that you've developed the miraculous technology to diagnose somebody as being completely free of physical dysfunction via the internet. Please do the right thing and share your ability with the rest of mankind.
In the end, we can only guess. As I mention tirelessly, these dysfunctions are the result of electrical signals through structural pathways; the neurotransmitter is only one component of that process, and one that does many different things at different places in the brain. So no, it isn't *just* the dopamine, though dopaminergic structures of the brain (i.e. substantia nigra, VTA within the basal ganglia, portions of the PFC) may be involved.
Let me just articulate a few things, though:

1. Messing with androgens will promote gynecomastia. It's a pretty well-known thing; it also has far-reaching negative impacts on your health if you're not truly deficient and are not very, very careful. Likewise expect mood disturbances if you mess with that stuff.

2. If you start experiencing motor disturbances, such as restless legs (which is relatively mild) or tics, jerks or other involuntary movement-- then I would start to worry more specifically about dopamine.

3. In my experience, psychiatrists are very inept at distinguishing psychosis from mania. From there people with abnormal cognitive styles or high intelligence who may be in distress but still fundamentally lucid may be misinterpreted as either, and it demands a great deal of rigor and insight on the psychiatrist's behalf to differentiate.

4. Likewise, and of extreme importance, is that the overlap between negative symptoms of schizophrenia and the symptoms of depression, especially anergic/melancholic depression, is absurd. They're nearly identical phenomena. Good news: guess which one is more prevalent? Yup, the depression-- statistically those symptoms are more likely either unipolar depresson or maybe bipolar I (maybe II, I don't know how frequently you cycle).

[russianBEAR]

You're going off topic here completely. All I wanted was to have more background information because most of the time these conditions can be traced to a lack of order/being raised a certain way.

With the way society is today, with feminist bitches trying to emasculate men and other dysfunctional family instances, these conditions can very well be psychological in nature because of poor childhood training. You cannot un-do it with a simple chemical, it takes time, effort and hard work to change yourself.

I know because I was raised by a single mother and like the vast majority of these people ended up a criminal before straightening up my act. You change your behavior with pain and hard work and watch your dopamine and everything else skyrocket.

Not everything has to do with neurotransmitters - you can't simply say that every problem you have is because you're not as chemically-balanced as a "healthy" person. 

Unless it's some hereditary condition, I'm mostly willing to call bs.

Too many people nowadays don't want to have negative experiences pertaining to their struggles. I know I'm in the same boat and it's a long and slow process trying to re-adapt my social skills after years of bad training followed by an extremely dysfunctional lifestyle.

If you take too many pills they'll ultimately stop working and you'll always be searching for the next cure. It's still just a patchwork solution and you'll be back to square one.

So I want some background...

[StrangeAeons]

You're going off topic here completely.

Really? I'm pretty on-topic. Background doesn't always account for one's problems, you can't always get by "staying strong" and "powering through", and sometimes a pill does work. Note that I made a point of noting my objection to the oversimplification of referring to these complex neurophysiological systems in terms of a single chemical. If you believe otherwise, you know precisely jack-shit about mental illness. Don't even try to call on any personal experiences here, because you obviously did not understand whatever it was you were exposed to, which is par for the course.
So correcting misconceptions,
both from the extreme that everything is attributed to background, and therefore hashing through it will correct issues
to the absurdity of believing that augmenting the presence of a single neurotransmitter will fix the problem
is key.
So I took a statement that best exemplified that mentality, and called you on it.
Am I clear?

Note that you decided to tell your story of criminality. That's an entirely different type of problem than what the OP is describing.

[cheesycow5]

How's your relationship with bread? Have you craved carbs more than normal growing up? Do you have any gastrointestinal symptoms? Even if you don't, you might be gluten intolerant.

http://www.examiner....o-schizophrenia

Findings from their latest research demonstrate that about 30% of people who suffer from schizophrenia cannot properly break down the proteins found in wheat, rye, and barley gluten. When these people eat gluten, they suffer from intestinal damage similar to that found in people with untreated celiac disease. Such patients "might also benefit from a gluten-free diet," according to senior researcher and genetics reader, Dr Jun Wei.

http://www3.intersci...l...=1&SRETRY=0

Objective: Schizophrenia affects roughly 1% of the population and is considered one of the top 10 causes of disability worldwide. Given the immense cost to society, successful treatment options are imperative. Based on initial findings, gluten withdrawal may serve as a safe and economical alternative for the reduction of symptoms in a subset of patients.

Method: A review of the literature relevant to the association between schizophrenia and celiac disease (gluten intolerance) was conducted.

Results: A drastic reduction, if not full remission, of schizophrenic symptoms after initiation of gluten withdrawal has been noted in a variety of studies. However, this occurs only in a subset of schizophrenic patients.

Conclusion: Large-scale epidemiological studies and clinical trials are needed to confirm the association between gluten and schizophrenia, and address the underlying mechanisms by which this association occurs.

http://www.biomedcen...1471-244X/5/14/

Coeliac disease is an under-diagnosed autoimmune type of gastrointestinal disorder resulting from gluten ingestion in genetically susceptible individuals. Non-specific symptoms such as fatigue and dyspepsia are common, but the disease may also be clinically silent. Diagnosis is based on small-bowel biopsy, and a permanent gluten-free diet is the essential treatment. Undetected or neglected, coeliac disease is associated with serious complications. [1-3] Depressive symptoms [4,5] and disorders [6] are common among adult patients with coeliac disease, and depressive and disruptive behavioural disorders are highly common also among adolescents, particularly in the phase before diet treatment [7]. Recently 73% of patients with untreated coeliac disease – but only 7% of patients adhering to a gluten-free diet – were reported to have cerebral blood flow abnormalities similar to those among patients with depressive disorders [8].

If you're interested, you have many options. Your doctor could do a blood test or biopsy for gluten intolerance, although doctor's tests aren't extremely reliable in this case. You can order a test from enterolab.com, which tests the stool for antibodies instead. Read this essay to learn more about their test.

You could also just eliminate gluten. Such a diet can only be healthy, so it's worth a shot for anyone. Gluten is hidden in lot's of foods, though, so it's hard at first. In my opinion, the easiest path is to only eat whole, natural foods: meat, vegetables, fruits, nuts. Even if you aren't sensitive to gluten, you'll feel better just after eliminating processed foods.

If you are gluten sensitive, and attempt a gluten free diet, results could appear almost immediately or take months to show, so it takes commitment. It's worth it.

[StrangeAeons]

It takes commitment if there's any plausible reason to suggest celiac in the first place. Might as well get tested for Lyme, and Epstein-Barr, and get an ANA titer, and probably dozens of other more obscure possibilities.
There's a lot of physiological conditions that can explain mental health issues in the first place, and you're going off the assumption that it's schizophrenia to begin with. That assumption was thrown out there based on a fallacy, see point 4 in my post above.
That said, if the OP has otherwise unexplained GI issues (I severely doubt most celiac sufferers can readily pin it down to wheat, given its pervasiveness in the modern diet) then perhaps a workup of those issues is warranted; I just seriously doubt that's the case here.

Aside from that, transglutaminase antibodies are not the most terrible lab test there is; if you're going to rag on their reliability, don't say, "instead try my product". The gold standard for diagnosing celiac is still endoscopic finding of villous atrophy, so might as well go for broke.

[russianBEAR]

Try reading up on any neural disease and you can easily convince yourself you have it if you look at the symptoms.

I have every disease in the book based on how I feel sometimes...try it for yourself...

[cheesycow5]

It takes commitment if there's any plausible reason to suggest celiac in the first place. Might as well get tested for Lyme, and Epstein-Barr, and get an ANA titer, and probably dozens of other more obscure possibilities.
There's a lot of physiological conditions that can explain mental health issues in the first place, and you're going off the assumption that it's schizophrenia to begin with. That assumption was thrown out there based on a fallacy, see point 4 in my post above.
That said, if the OP has otherwise unexplained GI issues (I severely doubt most celiac sufferers can readily pin it down to wheat, given its pervasiveness in the modern diet) then perhaps a workup of those issues is warranted; I just seriously doubt that's the case here.

Aside from that, transglutaminase antibodies are not the most terrible lab test there is; if you're going to rag on their reliability, don't say, "instead try my product". The gold standard for diagnosing celiac is still endoscopic finding of villous atrophy, so might as well go for broke.

You're right, a lot of things could be going wrong, but some estimates say 97% of celiacs are undiagnosed. And it's not hard to treat. A natural, whole-food diet will help whether or not one is celiac.

Test-wise, I would do the easiest, cheapest option available. If a positive comes up, you pretty much know you have it. If it's negative, I'd look up the sensitivity of the test, and possibly do another. I recommended the Enterolab test because I've heard that the sensitivity is much higher than that of blood tests or biopsies.

[StrangeAeons]

Try reading up on any neural disease and you can easily convince yourself you have it if you look at the symptoms.

I have every disease in the book based on how I feel sometimes...try it for yourself...

Really?
Sure,
I've got Gillian-Barre, multiple sclerosis, amyotropic lateral sclerosis, epilepsy and catalepsy, Bell's Palsy and trigeminal neuralgia, cluster headaches and migraines, and what the hell, locked-in syndrome, vertigo, autonomic hyperreflexia, and a several smatterings of transient ischemic attacks manifesting as partial-complex seizures, and I think just about every other saccade results in some hella nystagmus.

See, it kind of only works if you're an idiot and/or know absolutely nothing about medicine. And though it seems tiresome to repeat, in addition to my own independent research on these matters I also completed the full classroom portion of a paramedic's degree and most of the clinical work. So... maybe take my word on this one and stop saying stupid things.

As for the celiac...
really, "some study"? Any studies on the prevalence of celiac presenting principally with psychiatric symptoms, not gastrointestinal ones? I'm gonna take a gander and say it's a very, very small percentage. And what you read about labs is bull, but I already explained that one pretty well.

[russianBEAR]

Try reading up on any neural disease and you can easily convince yourself you have it if you look at the symptoms.

I have every disease in the book based on how I feel sometimes...try it for yourself...

Really?
Sure,
I've got Gillian-Barre, multiple sclerosis, amyotropic lateral sclerosis, epilepsy and catalepsy, Bell's Palsy and trigeminal neuralgia, cluster headaches and migraines, and what the hell, locked-in syndrome, vertigo, autonomic hyperreflexia, and a several smatterings of transient ischemic attacks manifesting as partial-complex seizures, and I think just about every other saccade results in some hella nystagmus.

See, it kind of only works if you're an idiot and/or know absolutely nothing about medicine. And though it seems tiresome to repeat, in addition to my own independent research on these matters I also completed the full classroom portion of a paramedic's degree and most of the clinical work. So... maybe take my word on this one and stop saying stupid things.

As for the celiac...
really, "some study"? Any studies on the prevalence of celiac presenting principally with psychiatric symptoms, not gastrointestinal ones? I'm gonna take a gander and say it's a very, very small percentage. And what you read about labs is bull, but I already explained that one pretty well.

Well of course you'd rather get defensive than take me up on my offer. Just seems that you'll never want to have a look at the alternatives to regular therapy and pills, because that would essentially negate your whole prior experience and that's a tough one on the self esteem heh ?

[JLL]

I think russianBEAR makes a valid point; the sacred tomes of psychiatry are full of disorders that could apply to anyone. I doubt there is a person in the world whose "symptoms" wouldn't match at least one of the disorders. Diseases like "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" are not very scientific in nature...

[tritium]

Wow a paramedic's degree? That is a complete joke of an education compared to someone who has a real 4-year university degree/graduate degree. You should stop being so ignorant. Everything that he suggested makes perfect sense.

Edited by tritium, 06 March 2010 - 05:36 AM.

[Animal]

I think russianBEAR makes a valid point; the sacred tomes of psychiatry are full of disorders that could apply to anyone. I doubt there is a person in the world whose "symptoms" wouldn't match at least one of the disorders. Diseases like "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" are not very scientific in nature...

Absolutely, another example is ADD-PI, I have been diagnosed with it but I don't actually think I have it. I suffer with chronic fatigue syndrome, and this affects my ability to concentrate and focus, but this is simply a symptom of the chronic fatigue rather then an entirely new disease in it's self.

Checking the 'symptoms' for ADD, and the list is ridiculously generalised, it could apply to almost anyone at different points. E.g. 'A marked preference for high stimulation entertainment and/or recreational activities over activities that require prolonged focus or application of thought' - I mean almost every goddamn human behaves this way. We all love high stimulation activities, but we use self-discipline to focus on mandatory yet 'boring' activities.

[StrangeAeons]

OK, the point is that I have a modicum of medical knowledge. This isn't me pulling out the ruler to see who's got a bigger one, just pointing out that I have a bit more expertise in the area; so when somebody says something utterly ignorant, I feel I have a right to cite some credentials.
And hello, is anybody noticing how you guys are confusing neurology with psychiatry? A lot of selective hearing there. I have railed against psychiatric diagnosis plenty, in case nobody's been paying any attention whatsoever to what I've been trying to say. I do think psychiatric diagnosis can be at times vague, and in fact the problem of diagnostic criteria becoming too vague or inclusive has become a major source of controversy; at the same time, somebody a bit more familiar with those criteria may be able to apply them a bit more effectively to those who truly suffer debilitation as a result of their symptoms.
However, *neurology* is a very different story, and though there is a good deal of overlap as paradigms of biological psychiatry are better refined, neurology consists heavily of many expressly organic disorders that you would have to be a moron or a malingerer to self-diagnose. See above tirade for a nowhere-near-exhaustive list.
Now that I've cleared the air there...
Did I say that I only advocated meds and therapy, that I was somehow this advocate of utterly conventional and banal psychiatry you wish to rail against? And what, for crying out loud, does that have to do with my self-esteem?
You know, it feels like every time I try to give out a metered, rational (if perhaps brash) response to put you in your place, russianBEAR, you just say that many more stupid things which I have to subsequently elucidate and deconstruct. Every valid point I make gets somehow passed over, and instead you say something utterly ill-founded and inane. Read the damned posts, and do some damned research.

[russianBEAR]

OK, the point is that I have a modicum of medical knowledge. This isn't me pulling out the ruler to see who's got a bigger one, just pointing out that I have a bit more expertise in the area; so when somebody says something utterly ignorant, I feel I have a right to cite some credentials.
And hello, is anybody noticing how you guys are confusing neurology with psychiatry? A lot of selective hearing there. I have railed against psychiatric diagnosis plenty, in case nobody's been paying any attention whatsoever to what I've been trying to say. I do think psychiatric diagnosis can be at times vague, and in fact the problem of diagnostic criteria becoming too vague or inclusive has become a major source of controversy; at the same time, somebody a bit more familiar with those criteria may be able to apply them a bit more effectively to those who truly suffer debilitation as a result of their symptoms.
However, *neurology* is a very different story, and though there is a good deal of overlap as paradigms of biological psychiatry are better refined, neurology consists heavily of many expressly organic disorders that you would have to be a moron or a malingerer to self-diagnose. See above tirade for a nowhere-near-exhaustive list.
Now that I've cleared the air there...
Did I say that I only advocated meds and therapy, that I was somehow this advocate of utterly conventional and banal psychiatry you wish to rail against? And what, for crying out loud, does that have to do with my self-esteem?
You know, it feels like every time I try to give out a metered, rational (if perhaps brash) response to put you in your place, russianBEAR, you just say that many more stupid things which I have to subsequently elucidate and deconstruct. Every valid point I make gets somehow passed over, and instead you say something utterly ill-founded and inane. Read the damned posts, and do some damned research.

Well apparently some people feel I'm making a valid point, so you trying to "put me in place" has something to do with things other than what we're talking about here. And maybe if your points get passed over, there's a reason for it? (Honey I'm driving on a freeway, and can you imagine, everyone is going the wrong way! - an old Russian joke)

Either way I don't intend to argue this for ages and listen to you trying to discredit my character...I'm sure any good "doctor" in any field would try to find out more about the patient's history. Since there was no such information in this thread and many others, I wanted to find out, because then it's entirely possible that a person doesn't need meds but a change in behavior/routine/training/whatever. Of course some people feel they know better...from my experience the first person to tout his/her degree/accomplishments in a given field instead of making a valid point is usually the one who lacks any sort of wisdom and desire for critical scrutiny.

Of course it's not as fun as "prescribing" little pills to others online knowing absolutely nothing about that person...

[NG_F]

Ihave no clue

Edited by NG_F, 18 March 2010 - 04:58 PM.

[roastporkbun]

Hi,

Did the original poster of this thread find any relief from the anhedonia after taking some dopaminergic drug?

Thanks,
Camille