59 replies to this topic

[Luna]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

[Infernity]

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Well said.

[maestro949]

Well, here then you just gave me a great idea for my next goal after immortality. I'll be a base for that if you can't find any. I'll show it to you.

-Infernity, The Future Queen of the Universe

But then you will have to fight off and suppress competitors who do not share your idealism which will lead to you in turn becoming a predator. There's no escaping history or human behavior - for every one utopian aspiring for power will be thousands of realists who will take advantage of the liberal weakness of the idealists.

We put social contracts called laws in place to deal with those that can't rise above their barbaric abuses of others. In my country we elect officials in an attempt to try and level the playing field such that a wide population of people have basic human rights such that they have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Being and idealist and working towards those goals does not equate to weakness but rather courage. Weakness is succumbing to primitive self destructive behaviors and fears and attempting to manipulate and exploit others via the same means. Your ideas of social Darwinism might resonate in the 19th century but the concepts are tired and long outdated.

Edited by maestro949, 25 November 2007 - 05:52 PM.

[Cyberbrain]

READ THIS WHOLE STATEMENT

Once we find a cure to aging, doesn't mean we'll be invernable . It's only the first step in immortality. The next few
hundred years will be spent going from the body 1.0 to the body 2.0 and to the body 3.0. Also the technological
singularity will have major applications for which we must deal with.

But lets pause for a second and ask our selves, what would be the ultimate purpose in being immortal? Hmmm?
Oh! Thats right! Knowledge! To obtain more knowledge and truth! With immortality we could spend billions of
years developing more advance technology and exploring space! It's space you guys! The final frontier! With
transhumanist bodies and with mind up loading, we could explore the universe, searching the answers to our
ultimate questions!

Is there a God or Afterlife?

Are we alone in this universe?

Will we ever find the grand unified theory?

What is out there?

What is our ultimate purpose?

Are there other planes of reality?

How far does our potential go and how far are we willing to go and why?

Could we ever find a way to reverse entropy and save this universe?

How big is this universe and could there be other physical phenomena for which we have not yet seen?

Could we create a new universe who's physical laws would allow us to exist indefinitely in a perfect heaven like world?

Will there ever be a moment in which we have obtained all the knowledge there is to know?

Could we ever become God?

What is out there in the multiverse and how big is it if it exist?

Thats our true nature! To keep going ... to keep learning ... to keep asking questions ... and to keep searching answers for them!
What other use is it to be immortal if not to keep going in our never ending quest for answers? Sure you could say that happiness
is our ultimate purpose ... but what is happiness and how can it be sustained if its simply an elctro-chemical reaction in our head?
What more human is it if not to satisfy our innate desire of the unknown!

But now the question is ... what happens next after we learn everything? THAT my friend is our ultimate goal ... TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!

AND IT IS ONLY AT THAT MOMENT THAT WE WILL FIND OUT WHAT OUR ULTIMATE PURPOSE IS!

And trust me, there is NO logic that can refute this! Go ahead, I dare you to try :biggrin:

And for all of you out there saying that we should concentrate on the present and not dwell on the future,
I have this to say: Yes, it's important to focus our energy and resources at the tasks at hand, but what
use is it if not for a purpose. A person does not go jumping off a bridge if not for a reason. :thumb:

[Infernity]

READ THIS WHOLE STATEMENT

Once we find a cure to aging, doesn't mean we'll be invernable . It's only the first step in immortality. The next few
hundred years will be spent going from the body 1.0 to the body 2.0 and to the body 3.0. Also the technological
singularity will have major applications for which we must deal with.

But lets pause for a second and ask our selves, what would be the ultimate purpose in being immortal? Hmmm?
Oh! Thats right! Knowledge! To obtain more knowledge and truth! With immortality we could spend billions of
years developing more advance technology and exploring space! It's space you guys! The final frontier! With
transhumanist bodies and with mind up loading, we could explore the universe, searching the answers to our
ultimate questions!

Is there a God or Afterlife?

Are we alone in this universe?

Will we ever find the grand unified theory?

What is out there?

What is our ultimate purpose?

Are there other planes of reality?

How far does our potential go and how far are we willing to go and why?

Could we ever find a way to reverse entropy and save this universe?

How big is this universe and could there be other physical phenomena for which we have not yet seen?

Could we create a new universe who's physical laws would allow us to exist indefinitely in a perfect heaven like world?

Will there ever be a moment in which we have obtained all the knowledge there is to know?

Could we ever become God?

What is out there in the multiverse and how big is it if it exist?

Thats our true nature! To keep going ... to keep learning ... to keep asking questions ... and to keep searching answers for them!
What other use is it to be immortal if not to keep going in our never ending quest for answers? Sure you could say that happiness
is our ultimate purpose ... but what is happiness and how can it be sustained if its simply an elctro-chemical reaction in our head?
What more human is it if not to satisfy our innate desire of the unknown!

But now the question is ... what happens next after we learn everything? THAT my friend is our ultimate goal ... TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!

AND IT IS ONLY AT THAT MOMENT THAT WE WILL FIND OUT WHAT OUR ULTIMATE PURPOSE IS!

And trust me, there is NO logic that can refute this! Go ahead, I dare you to try :biggrin:

And for all of you out there saying that we should concentrate on the present and not dwell on the future,
I have this to say: Yes, it's important to focus our energy and resources at the tasks at hand, but what
use is it if not for a purpose. A person does not go jumping off a bridge if not for a reason. :thumb:

I can answer some of this questions, but I will just refer to the whole thing. Yes, of course.

1. Aging is the prime death cause we handle, and after that we must find a ways to avoid the rest of death causes.

2. Immortality is merely an important tool in order to achieve the rest of things life offers. Most importantly- knowledge.

Gaining absolute immortality and knowledge about everything and experience, will be parallel, and done together.

For knowledge = power and power corrupts. Study hard, be evil.
Kiddin' ^^ :biggrin:

For we: Live to learn, learn to survive and survive to live

[gashinshotan]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Again these dictators had far more power than any other human beings in history through their murdering of millions. How is this weakness? I don't see the difference between manipulating the populace through mass media and suggestion and murder. Your claims that violence is a sign of weakness is subjective and based on an arbitrary morality which does not correlate with billions of years of evolutionary conflict which has led us to the level of development and propagation of life which we have today.

[Infernity]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Again these dictators had far more power than any other human beings in history through their murdering of millions. How is this weakness? I don't see the difference between manipulating the populace through mass media and suggestion and murder. Your claims that violence is a sign of weakness is subjective and based on an arbitrary morality which does not correlate with billions of years of evolutionary conflict which has led us to the level of development and propagation of life which we have today.

It's just so much harder to control, being loved. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

[gashinshotan]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Again these dictators had far more power than any other human beings in history through their murdering of millions. How is this weakness? I don't see the difference between manipulating the populace through mass media and suggestion and murder. Your claims that violence is a sign of weakness is subjective and based on an arbitrary morality which does not correlate with billions of years of evolutionary conflict which has led us to the level of development and propagation of life which we have today.

It's just so much harder to control, being loved. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

You can be loved and feared as Hitler, Mao Zedong, and Kim il Sung were. These were men who murdered and tortured millions yet gained the love and respect of most of their citizens. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

[eternaltraveler]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Again these dictators had far more power than any other human beings in history through their murdering of millions. How is this weakness? I don't see the difference between manipulating the populace through mass media and suggestion and murder. Your claims that violence is a sign of weakness is subjective and based on an arbitrary morality which does not correlate with billions of years of evolutionary conflict which has led us to the level of development and propagation of life which we have today.

It's just so much harder to control, being loved. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

You can be loved and feared as Hitler, Mao Zedong, and Kim il Sung were. These were men who murdered and tortured millions yet gained the love and respect of most of their citizens. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

so how's the progress coming?

Have a good following?

extreme intelligence?

Have you considered all the variables you will need to factor in? Possible competition? Why should anyone follow you? Do you have access to vast financial resources needed to secure access to needed technologies over and above Governments, companies, and individuals?

[eternaltraveler]

or do you live in your parents basement playing command n conqueror?

[Infernity]

Forcing others to do as you will through violence equals weakness.
Hitler and Stalin had many enemies. in their own countries aswell.

Power's only true use is for defense and quality, not for harm or domination.

Again these dictators had far more power than any other human beings in history through their murdering of millions. How is this weakness? I don't see the difference between manipulating the populace through mass media and suggestion and murder. Your claims that violence is a sign of weakness is subjective and based on an arbitrary morality which does not correlate with billions of years of evolutionary conflict which has led us to the level of development and propagation of life which we have today.

It's just so much harder to control, being loved. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

You can be loved and feared as Hitler, Mao Zedong, and Kim il Sung were. These were men who murdered and tortured millions yet gained the love and respect of most of their citizens. That is True Power. Not awe, not easy.
When who does that is extremely powerful, and yet everybody's happy. Think of it.....

*sigh* I see there's no point in arguing.
Ever played RPG?

I'm more the Chaotic Good character.
You're probably the Neutral Evil.
It isn't an insult. On NWN I quickly have navigated from True Neutral into Neutral Evil... It's just that truly I'm a good person. Not altruistic, no, such a thing IMHO doesn't exist, but good aye.

Then let you wear the black robes, while I wear the white.

[Kalepha]

Not altruistic, no, such a thing IMHO doesn't exist, but good aye.

If a system ultimately can't be real to perform good acts for others, then, no, altruism couldn't exist. If it's analytically permissible for a system to be real to perform good acts for others, then altruism could exist. IOW, if a person can't consider its own functioning in its attempt to perform good acts for others, then, no, altruism couldn't exist. Otherwise, it could.

It's a word with some definition and possible extensions, and it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to define it in such a way so that its extensions are recognizable in acts of coalition welfare improvement.

In a sense you're right. Where everyone in a universe of discourse is rich enough and their wealth is growing by the instant, any attempts to improve a coalition's welfare could necessarily be to the detriment of another coalition, and if each coalition shared the view that it wouldn't be good to hasten their pace to another coalition's detriment, altruism would not be applicable, although it would still be possible.

You might be optimistic and wish it weren't applicable, which is fine, but I wouldn't say it's not possible, because in some universes of discourse it could be applicable, and so it would need to be possible.

[1000]

What can be our goal? Resurrecting the dear ones that are already dead.

[AdamSummerfield]

Not altruistic, no, such a thing IMHO doesn't exist, but good aye.

If a system ultimately can't be real to perform good acts for others, then, no, altruism couldn't exist.

I have read a few books co-authored by HH The Dalai Lama, and some of the things that he recalls doing to people by exchanging a few words is unbelievable. A fiance couple, both extremely wealthy, one an heiress, the other an attorney, had been recalled them being incredibly haughty and imperious. However, they were invited for a 2-on-1 interview with His Holiness.
Upon leaving they were sobbing uncontrollably, and afterwards were reported to be much better people.
He has also managed to get people lining up in hotel cafe's, waiting for him to arrive so they can talk to him, all by sharing a few words with one of the hotel maids, due to her pleasure by what he had briefly said to her.

If altruism is power then HH the Dalai Lama is the one to consult.

[gashinshotan]

so how's the progress coming?

Have a good following?

extreme intelligence?

Have you considered all the variables you will need to factor in? Possible competition? Why should anyone follow you? Do you have access to vast financial resources needed to secure access to needed technologies over and above Governments, companies, and individuals?

Besides the fact that your post is obviously a bait to open me up for personal attacks because the losers of a debate cannot but resort to such tactics I will answer your questions:

I have many friends and acquantainces who for the most part only agree with my views after I logically annihilate their strongly held beliefs. Most people consider me to be too intelligent for my own good, often becoming angry and disheartened when I tear up every valued preconception they held and many have resorted to personal and physical attacks against me but continue to trust me with their problems and come to me when they need help. That type of relationship in which your friends openly acknowledge your intellectual superiority and the validity of your arguments through tears and violence while simultaneously trusting your opinion and your loyalty is the best example of strong relationships and charismatic leadership. I also am very adept at communicating with and gaining the attention of a group of people and have friends from all social, educational, and cultural backgrounds.

I consider myself to be very intelligent and knowledgeable, having completed 3 years of an undergraduate curriculum earning a 3.5 GPA with a 3.9 GPA in my bio classes while ditching most of my classes, studying as little as three hours before an exam, and memorizing hundreds of pages of text in one sitting.

The other factors you mention will require a long life and cold logical planning. I understand the need for mass murder and torture to consolidate one's power and have studied the life and works of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Il Sung, and various other violent dictators in order to learn how they psychologically became capable of such efficient calculation. I am also pursuing a career as a physician and will be working as an EMT next year in order to prepare myself for human suffering and death. I plan to learn as much as possible about human nature as a physician and with the time allotted to me by possible extended life, I hope to gain enough information on the human psyche to form an ideology which appeals to the masses and to the rich though this ideology which may not necessarily fit in with any of my personal beliefs. I am also beginning to study psychoanalysis, hypnotism, and persuasion in depth which i believe will aide me in obtaining the necessary financial and social resources needed to achieve my goal. The drive to power should be pursued without regard to morals and human life with the ultimate goal of totalitarianism.

Am I kidding?

Edited by gashinshotan, 25 November 2007 - 10:06 PM.

[gashinshotan]

or do you live in your parents basement playing command n conqueror?

do you?

[treonsverdery]

To be a super girlfriend to my Mermaid girlfriend

Edited by treonsverdery, 26 November 2007 - 09:23 AM.

[Agarikon]

Gashinshotanaman,

All your posts have not been in vain -- now I know what bored comedians do with their time!

Edited by agarikon, 26 November 2007 - 07:37 PM.

[gashinshotan]

Gashinshotanaman,

All your posts have not been in vain -- now I know what bored comedians do with their time!

Yes! Except people will actually think I'm serious.

[Infernity]

Gashinshotanaman,

All your posts have not been in vain -- now I know what bored comedians do with their time!

Yes! Except people will actually think I'm serious.

:biggrin: lol Gash, I don't think you got it ^^

[gashinshotan]

Gashinshotanaman,

All your posts have not been in vain -- now I know what bored comedians do with their time!

Yes! Except people will actually think I'm serious.

:biggrin: lol Gash, I don't think you got it ^^

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished... the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

[Infernity]

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished

omg I'm so sorry... I truly am.. didn't mean to jeer..sorry.



But I still totally disagree on that:

the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

...

[gashinshotan]

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished

omg I'm so sorry... I truly am.. didn't mean to jeer..sorry.



But I still totally disagree on that:

the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

...

god dammit. I wasn't talking about, I was talking about agarikon's post. I think you're too optimistic and think too little of the power of disaster into driving people toward unthinkable acts. History has been on the side of tyrants who came to power as a result of crises - history isn't on the side of democracy in these matters. Why does everyone base their beliefs on utopian ideals that have no historical PRECEDENT?

Edited by gashinshotan, 27 November 2007 - 08:36 AM.

[Infernity]

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished

omg I'm so sorry... I truly am.. didn't mean to jeer..sorry.



But I still totally disagree on that:

the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

...

god dammit. I wasn't talking about, I was talking about agarikon's post. I think you're too optimistic and think too little of the power of disaster into driving people toward unthinkable acts. History has been on the side of tyrants who came to power as a result of crises - history isn't on the side of democracy in these matters. Why does everyone base their beliefs on utopian ideals that have no historical PRECEDENT?

We're striving for immortality...... We're so non-comformists.... history has never been in our favoure.... That's how we differ from average people who do whatever in order to be in favour of their society, "friend"... they are fakes. They are WEAK. That mean living in awe...
I do accept your arguments. But the thing is, it has two sides... (omg i gotta stop with the "....").
2 sides, the weight between them is just a matter of opinion.

[gashinshotan]

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished

omg I'm so sorry... I truly am.. didn't mean to jeer..sorry.



But I still totally disagree on that:

the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

...

god dammit. I wasn't talking about, I was talking about agarikon's post. I think you're too optimistic and think too little of the power of disaster into driving people toward unthinkable acts. History has been on the side of tyrants who came to power as a result of crises - history isn't on the side of democracy in these matters. Why does everyone base their beliefs on utopian ideals that have no historical PRECEDENT?

We're striving for immortality...... We're so non-comformists.... history has never been in our favoure.... That's how we differ from average people who do whatever in order to be in favour of their society, "friend"... they are fakes. They are WEAK. That mean living in awe...
I do accept your arguments. But the thing is, it has two sides... (omg i gotta stop with the "....").
2 sides, the weight between them is just a matter of opinion.

The scale is tipped toward human savagery over human paradise. I'm not criticizing any of your ideals, I'm just saying they're going to be nearly impossible to accomplish. People aren't good - there is a continual battle between morality and brutality in which brutality has always won when the quality of life and life itself are threatened.

[Infernity]

I got it - sarcastic insult which I replied likewise with sarcasm which lol Infernity, I don't think you got it ^^. But then again what if I'm serious? People mistook the most destructive leaders as jokes and look what they accomplished

omg I'm so sorry... I truly am.. didn't mean to jeer..sorry.



But I still totally disagree on that:

the deepening economic, social, environmental, and international crises could open the door for another Hitler...

...

god dammit. I wasn't talking about, I was talking about agarikon's post. I think you're too optimistic and think too little of the power of disaster into driving people toward unthinkable acts. History has been on the side of tyrants who came to power as a result of crises - history isn't on the side of democracy in these matters. Why does everyone base their beliefs on utopian ideals that have no historical PRECEDENT?

We're striving for immortality...... We're so non-comformists.... history has never been in our favoure.... That's how we differ from average people who do whatever in order to be in favour of their society, "friend"... they are fakes. They are WEAK. That mean living in awe...
I do accept your arguments. But the thing is, it has two sides... (omg i gotta stop with the "....").
2 sides, the weight between them is just a matter of opinion.

The scale is tipped toward human savagery over human paradise. I'm not criticizing any of your ideals, I'm just saying they're going to be nearly impossible to accomplish. People aren't good - there is a continual battle between morality and brutality in which brutality has always won when the quality of life and life itself are threatened.

It reminds me a post I once wrote on my personal blog. About Morality versus Honesty. It might surprise you, but I stood against morality.
Social morals tend to collide with my own.
I think I am good, according to my own moral codes. Other people are likely to tell you otherwise. (Especially girls *giggles*).
I'll post it here, will link you if you like.

[REGIMEN]

Please, don't judge people by their age.
As well as Drizzt Do'Urden shouldn't have misjudges the blind ranger's fighting skills.

Ripe... totally ripe.


[pls link!]

[rodentman]

After we conquer aging, I will focus on my second goal...

to conquer the earth. moohoo hahhahha haha (Evil Laugh)

[Luna]

So gashinshotan, tell me.
Once immortality is achieved and you go for your crusade conquering the world, what will you do with the smart intelligent people who will not agree to have you as a ruler and at the same time won't be savage poor sheeps like most of the humans?

Will you go to war and by this, represent everything that immortality is opposed to, aswell as risk your own neck?

Or will you try to see if there is a non violent way to civilize and advance those so called savages?

Edited by Winterbreeze, 12 December 2007 - 06:21 PM.

[Infernity]

Please, don't judge people by their age.
As well as Drizzt Do'Urden shouldn't have misjudged the blind ranger's fighting skills.

Ripe... totally ripe.


[pls link!]

Heh, that's a character made by R. A. Salvatore, read the The Dark Elf Trilogy and the books after.

http://www.myspace.com/rasalvatore

http://RASalvatore.com

He's such a great author, probably my fav.

I don't remember if this remarkable ranger's in the 3rd book or 4th. But Drizzt is my favourite literary character.

Edited by Infernity, 12 December 2007 - 07:52 PM.