43 replies to this topic

[TrekkieMan]

Hello. I am not sure if you all have had a chance to read my introduction yet, but this question is one that is of considerable importance to someone like me. I think it is reasonable to assume that not all humans will become transhuman or posthuman. So, my question, what might happen to them in the posthuman age? I've heard random speculation from all manner of sources. It ranges from mere pets, to targets of extermination, to the belief that the state will still be able to enforce some kind of political or legal equality. I'm interested in what all of you think.

[cyborgdreamer]

No one really knows for sure. Personally, I hope that posthumans would help regular people when asked and otherwise leave the humans alone to live their lives.

[Live Forever]

No one really knows for sure. Personally, I hope that posthumans would help regular people when asked and otherwise leave the humans alone to live their lives.

Yeah, I vote for that. :wink:

[Cyberbrain]

No one really knows for sure. Personally, I hope that posthumans would help regular people when asked and otherwise leave the humans alone to live their lives.

Yeah, I vote for that. :wink:

Yes me too :biggrin:

[forever freedom]

I personally would like some smarter (a bit only) pets than my dog.


Seriously now, i think that people (if there will be any) that do not wish to become transhumans will live in their own societies separated from transhuman societies, like some of the african tribes today (i'm just estimating, obviously i don't know the proportion of marginalization that unenhanced humans will face) or something like that.

[salyavin]

Kinda like a future Amish in a way. I also vote for letting them be unless they desire help from the posthumans.

[forever freedom]

Maybe even posthumans will separate themselves from unenhanced humans going to other planets or sending them to other planets lol, who knows...

[TrekkieMan]

Thank you to everyone who has offered their opinion so far. My own thoughts on the matter are really not that different. My guess is that human society and posthuman society would separate. Sam’s suggestion that posthumans might leave for the stars is one that I think could happen. I’m assuming that if you’re a posthuman, you can live in pretty much any environment you want. Why would you limit yourself to one planet?

I’m actually thinking of writing a story about a future human society in the posthuman age. I’m not entirely sure how I want it to go, but I have about thirty pages written so far, and a lot of ideas. I’d like to create a world where humans and posthumans have peacefully co-existed, or peacefully separated from one another. I’m getting a little tired of the neo-luddite stories where machines turn on humans, or try to enslave them or kill them or what not. Boring, and not very realistic, IMO.

[gashinshotan]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

[Infernity]

Average people who are against H+ now, are likely to become ones without evenm knowing why. Why? They follow fashion. It will be the desireable thing at one of the days....

[gashinshotan]

Average people who are against H+ now, are likely to become ones without evenm knowing why. Why? They follow fashion. It will be the desireable thing at one of the days....

I don't think so. People are too lazy to become transhumanists and are more interested in screwing, gluttony, drinking, drugs, and other self-destructive behaviors which provide temporary, convenient pleasure. Short-term cultural icons always have shorter lifespans than the rest of the general population.

[mitkat]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

Eugenic classism in a failed utopia. Are you including yourself in those exterminating the 'unwashed masses'?

[gashinshotan]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

Eugenic classism in a failed utopia. Are you including yourself in those exterminating the 'unwashed masses'?

I plan to be of the elite, not of the expendable masses. I really don't believe a utopia is possible nor ideal - I'm a realist and see more of a dystopian future and am aiming to be in the best position when it comes.

[TrekkieMan]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

If you're looking to create a heaven for yourself, and view the masses as an impediment to that, why even bother exterminating them? I think it would be much easier to simply create your own virtual world to live in. It seems kind of pointless to become some kind of super being and decide that you're much more like the genocidal dictators of humanity's past and present than you are like the Gandhis and Martin Luther Kings.

Average people who are against H+ now, are likely to become ones without evenm knowing why. Why? They follow fashion. It will be the desireable thing at one of the days....

I agree that Transhumanism will probably become more popular over time. I don't imagine that the first technologies that create transhumans are more than a few decades away. However, I do not think everyone will choose this kind of life for themselves. I believe there will still many unenhanced humans left. There might not be a very large number of them, but enough.

I don't think so. People are too lazy to become transhumanists and are more interested in screwing, gluttony, drinking, drugs, and other self-destructive behaviors which provide temporary, convenient pleasure. Short-term cultural icons always have shorter lifespans than the rest of the general population.

I plan to be of the elite, not of the expendable masses. I really don't believe a utopia is possible nor ideal - I'm a realist and see more of a dystopian future and am aiming to be in the best position when it comes.

I can't help but feel you have some misanthropic leanings.

[cyborgdreamer]

I really don't believe a utopia is possible nor ideal

Isn't utopia ideal by definition?

[Infernity]

I agree that Transhumanism will probably become more popular over time. I don't imagine that the first technologies that create transhumans are more than a few decades away. However, I do not think everyone will choose this kind of life for themselves. I believe there will still many unenhanced humans left. There might not be a very large number of them, but enough.

Obviously. As always, there will be two extreme sides, and middle ones too. But ours will become a conform side

[TrekkieMan]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

Eugenic classism in a failed utopia. Are you including yourself in those exterminating the 'unwashed masses'?

I plan to be of the elite, not of the expendable masses. I really don't believe a utopia is possible nor ideal - I'm a realist and see more of a dystopian future and am aiming to be in the best position when it comes.

Are you saying that you're preparing yourself to be part of a group you believe will commit genocide?

[forever freedom]

The ubermensch will wipe out the rest of the population beyond those who provide convenient servitude. Why support lesser beings or leave for the stars when you can have heaven on earth if most of the inferior population is eliminated?

Eugenic classism in a failed utopia. Are you including yourself in those exterminating the 'unwashed masses'?

I plan to be of the elite, not of the expendable masses. I really don't believe a utopia is possible nor ideal - I'm a realist and see more of a dystopian future and am aiming to be in the best position when it comes.

Are you saying that you're preparing yourself to be part of a group you believe will commit genocide?

I don't know about him, but if in the future there rises a group that's superior to others, and we either join them or perish, i would join them, even though i wouldn't agree with the strategy of killing others, and i personally would not kill anyone unless i had to. But after all, the saying "If you can't beat them, join them", does hold some truth.

[cyborgdreamer]

I don't know about him, but if in the future there rises a group that's superior to others, and we either join them or perish, i would join them, even though i wouldn't agree with the strategy of killing others, and i personally would not kill anyone unless i had to. But after all, the saying "If you can't beat them, join them", does hold some truth.

I'd pretend to join them but I'd secretly take part in an underground resistance movement to stop the oppressors.

[TrekkieMan]

I don't know about him, but if in the future there rises a group that's superior to others, and we either join them or perish, i would join them, even though i wouldn't agree with the strategy of killing others, and i personally would not kill anyone unless i had to. But after all, the saying "If you can't beat them, join them", does hold some truth.

And I believe there is some to truth to believing there are prices that are too high.

I'd pretend to join them but I'd secretly take part in an underground resistance movement to stop the oppressors.

I think that is an excellent idea. I doubt unenhanced humans could defeat genocidal posthumans on their own. It would take active assistance from some sympathetic posthumans, ones not afraid to risk their own existence to stop a horrific crime from occurring.

[forever freedom]

I don't know about him, but if in the future there rises a group that's superior to others, and we either join them or perish, i would join them, even though i wouldn't agree with the strategy of killing others, and i personally would not kill anyone unless i had to. But after all, the saying "If you can't beat them, join them", does hold some truth.

And I believe there is some to truth to believing there are prices that are too high.

Then i must be a selfish b*stard. I would rather live with guilt of not stopping people from killing others than to not live at all.

I'd pretend to join them but I'd secretly take part in an underground resistance movement to stop the oppressors.

I think that is an excellent idea. I doubt unenhanced humans could defeat genocidal posthumans on their own. It would take active assistance from some sympathetic posthumans, ones not afraid to risk their own existence to stop a horrific crime from occurring.

"Assistance"? Hehe... unenhanced humans wouldn't be much more than chimps compared to posthumans. This "underground movement" would have to be composed of posthumans only -unenhanced humans wouldn't be able to help, they would rather possibly screw it all and unvoluntarily expose the secrecy of it-, protecting the cause of a parallel inferior race. Not that there's anything wrong with it (like today's activists that protect animals, thanks god they exist, someone has to stand up for animals), but if there is a threat to those in these movements, i would think twice before joining them; is it really worth it? People in Greenpeace don't need to worry about the government's secret agents trying to slay them.... wouldn't be the case in this future possible scenario.

Edited by sam988, 02 December 2007 - 05:05 AM.

[TrekkieMan]

Then i must be a selfish b*stard. I would rather live with guilt of not stopping people from killing others than to not live at all.

The instinct for self-preservation is perfectly normal. However, people can and do get past it, to achieve heroic things.

"Assistance"? Hehe... unenhanced humans wouldn't be much more than chimps compared to posthumans. This "underground movement" would have to be composed of posthumans only -unenhanced humans wouldn't be able to help, they would rather possibly screw it all and unvoluntarily expose the secrecy of it-, protecting the cause of a parallel inferior race. Not that there's anything wrong with it (like today's activists that protect animals, thanks god they exist, someone has to stand up for animals), but if there is a threat to those in these movements, i would think twice before joining them; is it really worth it? People in Greenpeace don't need to worry about the government's secret agents trying to slay them.... wouldn't be the case in this future possible scenario.

I'm not really sure what the point of this is. That humanity would be unable to defend itself without posthuman protectors? That would probably be the case.

While it is true that animal rights activists don't have to worry about government agents killing them, the brave souls who resisted the Nazis and helped save Jews and other "inferiors" during the Holocaust did. I would hope that future posthumans, exceeding human abilities, would do the very same thing.

That is all assuming that posthumans do, in fact, try to wipe out humanity. I don't believe they will.

[forever freedom]

The instinct for self-preservation is perfectly normal. However, people can and do get past it, to achieve heroic things.

Sure some manage to become heroes by being completely altruistic and risking their lives, and surviving it all. But for every one that becomes a hero, thousands die because they did the same the hero did, but weren't as lucky.

That is all assuming that posthumans do, in fact, try to wipe out humanity. I don't believe they will.

Me neither. I just got interested in discussing this scenario :biggrin:

We will probably co exist peacefully, or go through a pacific separation of civilizations.

[gashinshotan]

We will probably co exist peacefully, or go through a pacific separation of civilizations.

I won't let that happen.

[niner]

We will probably co exist peacefully, or go through a pacific separation of civilizations.

I won't let that happen.

Gashinshotan, would you describe youself as a Neocon?

[gashinshotan]

We will probably co exist peacefully, or go through a pacific separation of civilizations.

I won't let that happen.

Gashinshotan, would you describe youself as a Neocon?

No. I don't support conservative social values nor christianity.

[Grimm]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

[forever freedom]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

Edited by sam988, 18 December 2007 - 02:10 AM.

[spaceistheplace]

sadly, the people who most deserve to have their lives extended- the peacemakers, artists, and the humble, will not have it. And the clever, deceitful, greedy and rich will.

[luv2increase]

I believe that cyborgs etc. will be much smarter than humans; therefore, any attempt to destroy them if war broke out would be disastrous for humans. It would be similar to the Spaniards destroying Central and South American Indian nations yet worse.