43 replies to this topic

[forever freedom]

sadly, the people who most deserve to have their lives extended- the peacemakers, artists, and the humble, will not have it. And the clever, deceitful, greedy and rich will.

I think that those who deserve to have their lives extended is those who wished for it the most; therefore the rich/greedy/clever (i don't see any reason why these attributes should be cathegorized as bad and undeserving things)

[Grimm]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

[HellKaiserRyo]

sadly, the people who most deserve to have their lives extended- the peacemakers, artists, and the humble, will not have it. And the clever, deceitful, greedy and rich will.

I think that those who deserve to have their lives extended is those who wished for it the most; therefore the rich/greedy/clever (i don't see any reason why these attributes should be cathegorized as bad and undeserving things)

It should be available to those who want it, no matter what.

[Grimm]

sadly, the people who most deserve to have their lives extended- the peacemakers, artists, and the humble, will not have it. And the clever, deceitful, greedy and rich will.

I think that those who deserve to have their lives extended is those who wished for it the most; therefore the rich/greedy/clever (i don't see any reason why these attributes should be cathegorized as bad and undeserving things)

It should be available to those who want it, no matter what.

Do you honestly think it will? Look at every other advance in human history. The elites get first access. Something like this would allow them to remain in power for years and years, and start a new line of God-Kings across the globe. I'd say there is a very good chane of something like that happening (the elite entrenching their power by exploiting life-extension and denying it to everyone else).

[Chinese Power]

The regular people don't want help, they rather prefer to wait for their "God" to help them. I say, let us also just let their "God" help them by just leaving them alone.

[forever freedom]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

A war?? It would be more like a massacre. Appearently your mind doesn't have much of a notion of what i'm talking about so i'll make it easier to understand. Imagine One single human today with today's weaponry (a war tank, missile launcher, machine guns/rifles, bullet proof armors, blinded cars, granades, chemical weapons, and on) against the neanderthals. Do you think the whole neanderthal race with their spears and stones would stand a chance against this single person? Very unlikely...


This posthuman would sinply develop a deadly virus that would take out all of humanity and give himself the vaccine so he don't die too. Doesn't sound much like a war to me... just a massacre.

Edited by sam988, 26 December 2007 - 01:11 AM.

[Grimm]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

A war?? It would be more like a massacre. Appearently your mind doesn't have much of a notion of what i'm talking about so i'll make it easier to understand. Imagine One single human today with today's weaponry (a war tank, missile launcher, machine guns/rifles, bullet proof armors, blinded cars, granades, chemical weapons, and on) against the neanderthals. Do you think the whole neanderthal race with their spears and stones would stand a chance against this single person? Very unlikely...


This posthuman would sinply develop a deadly virus that would take out all of humanity and give himself the vaccine so he don't die too. Doesn't sound much like a war to me... just a massacre.

Yeah, the neanderthals could eventually beat a guy with a tank, as one man can't operate a tank! Lol, anyways.

People can engineer a virus to take out post-humans, too. The human race is very versatile. We'll survive. One post human, however smart, cannot kill the entire human race. Besides, just because someone is smart does not make them effective soldiers, tacticians, or fighters.

[forever freedom]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

A war?? It would be more like a massacre. Appearently your mind doesn't have much of a notion of what i'm talking about so i'll make it easier to understand. Imagine One single human today with today's weaponry (a war tank, missile launcher, machine guns/rifles, bullet proof armors, blinded cars, granades, chemical weapons, and on) against the neanderthals. Do you think the whole neanderthal race with their spears and stones would stand a chance against this single person? Very unlikely...


This posthuman would sinply develop a deadly virus that would take out all of humanity and give himself the vaccine so he don't die too. Doesn't sound much like a war to me... just a massacre.

Yeah, the neanderthals could eventually beat a guy with a tank, as one man can't operate a tank! Lol, anyways.

People can engineer a virus to take out post-humans, too. The human race is very versatile. We'll survive. One post human, however smart, cannot kill the entire human race. Besides, just because someone is smart does not make them effective soldiers, tacticians, or fighters.

How could we engineer a virus to take out the post human? Beating the post human in new technology and biology fields wouldn't be possible. He wouldn't be dumb enough to come out of nowhere and say "I'M DECLARING WAR ON HUMANITY. SURRENDER NOW!". He would think it through more carefully, first studying and developing new technologies (or a virus that would take over all military computers) and then only once he was certain of victory starting the rampage on humanity. There would be no hollywood hero to beat the villain and rescue humanity.

Edited by sam988, 26 December 2007 - 01:43 AM.

[Grimm]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

A war?? It would be more like a massacre. Appearently your mind doesn't have much of a notion of what i'm talking about so i'll make it easier to understand. Imagine One single human today with today's weaponry (a war tank, missile launcher, machine guns/rifles, bullet proof armors, blinded cars, granades, chemical weapons, and on) against the neanderthals. Do you think the whole neanderthal race with their spears and stones would stand a chance against this single person? Very unlikely...


This posthuman would sinply develop a deadly virus that would take out all of humanity and give himself the vaccine so he don't die too. Doesn't sound much like a war to me... just a massacre.

Yeah, the neanderthals could eventually beat a guy with a tank, as one man can't operate a tank! Lol, anyways.

People can engineer a virus to take out post-humans, too. The human race is very versatile. We'll survive. One post human, however smart, cannot kill the entire human race. Besides, just because someone is smart does not make them effective soldiers, tacticians, or fighters.

How could we engineer a virus to take out the post human? Beating the post human in new technology and biology fields wouldn't be possible. He wouldn't be dumb enough to come out of nowhere and say "I'M DECLARING WAR ON HUMANITY. SURRENDER NOW!". He would think it through more carefully, first studying and developing new technologies (or a virus that would take over all military computers) and then only once he was certain of victory starting the rampage on humanity. There would be no hollywood hero to beat the villain and rescue humanity.

Pfft. Whatever. No single being...excpet maybe a god, could destroy all of humanity. Now could post-humans as a whole defeat humanity? Maybe.

[forever freedom]

I for one, want to remain a human. I wouldn't want to live near post-humans, AI, or cyborgs. So if all of those wanted to leave Earth, I wouldn't be heartbroken. However, I don't see how natural humans and post-humans/cyborgs/whatever could coexist peacefully for very long. Natural humans would become more and more marginalized in a post-human era, and would feel threated. War would break out. Who would win? Who knows? It'd depend on how many natural humans are left at that point.

I am willing to bet that there would be a peaceful separation, since hopefully posthumans will have higher ethics than we currently do, but who knows....

About the war thing, i think that it would be obvious who would win; depending on the level that the posthumans would be in, i don't even think that more than one posthuman would be needed to beat the unenhanced human kind. Remember that it's all about technology, and not about number of "soldiers".

One posthuman taking out all of humanity? With what? A biological weapon? A nuke?

Humans don't get along with other forms of humans-look at the Neanderthals. I'd wager there will be war between the differing groups.

A war?? It would be more like a massacre. Appearently your mind doesn't have much of a notion of what i'm talking about so i'll make it easier to understand. Imagine One single human today with today's weaponry (a war tank, missile launcher, machine guns/rifles, bullet proof armors, blinded cars, granades, chemical weapons, and on) against the neanderthals. Do you think the whole neanderthal race with their spears and stones would stand a chance against this single person? Very unlikely...


This posthuman would sinply develop a deadly virus that would take out all of humanity and give himself the vaccine so he don't die too. Doesn't sound much like a war to me... just a massacre.

Yeah, the neanderthals could eventually beat a guy with a tank, as one man can't operate a tank! Lol, anyways.

People can engineer a virus to take out post-humans, too. The human race is very versatile. We'll survive. One post human, however smart, cannot kill the entire human race. Besides, just because someone is smart does not make them effective soldiers, tacticians, or fighters.

How could we engineer a virus to take out the post human? Beating the post human in new technology and biology fields wouldn't be possible. He wouldn't be dumb enough to come out of nowhere and say "I'M DECLARING WAR ON HUMANITY. SURRENDER NOW!". He would think it through more carefully, first studying and developing new technologies (or a virus that would take over all military computers) and then only once he was certain of victory starting the rampage on humanity. There would be no hollywood hero to beat the villain and rescue humanity.

Pfft. Whatever. No single being...excpet maybe a god, could destroy all of humanity. Now could post-humans as a whole defeat humanity? Maybe.

Depending on your definition of a god, that's exactly what a posthuman would be. But then again, maybe he wouldn't need to destroy all humanity. He could just defeat the opposition and make the rest of humans be his servants.

[Grimm]

Said by me:
Pfft. Whatever. No single being...excpet maybe a god, could destroy all of humanity. Now could post-humans as a whole defeat humanity? Maybe.


said by sam:
Depending on your definition of a god, that's exactly what a posthuman would be. But then again, maybe he wouldn't need to destroy all humanity. He could just defeat the opposition and make the rest of humans be his servants.

Nonsense. Is a posthuman going to be able to shoot lighting bolts and fireballs? Snap his fingers and destroy a city? Change the weather with thoughts? Change reality? No. A post human will be, well, who the heck knows really? It is funny that people think one single post human could destroy all of humanity. A bullet the head will take it out real quick. Or a stab through the heart. Everything can die. There is no changing that.

[salyavin]

I suppose that if I was "uploaded" into some powerful machine/nanotech/whatever body and mined the asteroid belt to make replicating devices to push a large number of asteroids to the earth I could probably take a noticeable chunk of humanity out but then why bother the galaxy heck even just the solar system is a big place to an adaptable superbeing why not just leave the earth alone as a nature park and go adapt yourself for other environments and replicate or create backups of yourself elsewhere. Immortal posthumans seem more suited to colonizing environments beyond the earth. Leave humans to the pale blue dot.

[cyborgdreamer]

Said by me:
Pfft. Whatever. No single being...excpet maybe a god, could destroy all of humanity. Now could post-humans as a whole defeat humanity? Maybe.


said by sam:
Depending on your definition of a god, that's exactly what a posthuman would be. But then again, maybe he wouldn't need to destroy all humanity. He could just defeat the opposition and make the rest of humans be his servants.

Nonsense. Is a posthuman going to be able to shoot lighting bolts and fireballs? Snap his fingers and destroy a city? Change the weather with thoughts? Change reality? No. A post human will be, well, who the heck knows really? It is funny that people think one single post human could destroy all of humanity. A bullet the head will take it out real quick. Or a stab through the heart. Everything can die. There is no changing that.

Well a posthuman couldn't actually have magical powers but their technology would be so advanced, that it might seem like magic to humans. Who's to say that they couldn't develop machines to generate lightning bolts and fireballs or instantly vaporize a city? Also, I'd imagine that they'd be physically enhanced as well as super-intelligent. They would probably have better defences to their brains and hearts then we do.

[dr_chaos]

Well a posthuman couldn't actually have magical powers but their technology would be so advanced, that it might seem like magic to humans. Who's to say that they couldn't develop machines to generate lightning bolts and fireballs or instantly vaporize a city? Also, I'd imagine that they'd be physically enhanced as well as super-intelligent. They would probably have better defences to their brains and hearts then we do.

I don't want to doubt that such technology is possible( sounds like a radio controlled nuke) but you dramatize the effects of enhancements by putting in the ring two fighters, who probably never meet in the way you describe. The impact of the first enhancements will definitely not create true godlike posthumans. The difference between enhanced and unenhanced will more be likely be like the one between the ford t and a horse, thereby giving enhanced people only slight advantages(which nonetheless could make them the new ruling elite). The technology of enhancements will distribute through society at some speed so there won't be giant intellectual gap between the majority and the superenhanced people, but more a situation like we have it today with different IQ's. Maybe enhancements will be socialized so everyone gets them and there will be no more gaps in abilities. Furthermore I don't see why there has to be this one posthuman kills everyone scenario. Why not ten or one hundred posthumans?

On the other hand there will be people who decide to not be enhanced. In the long run they could experience assaults like you describe, which they can't defend against. But this not called a war but a hate crime.

By the way, the idea that there will be individuals who will have the power to decide on the extinction of the whole human race is not a quirk of transhumanistic scenarios. During the cold war we already had this situation( and in some sort of way we still have it today).