17 replies to this topic

[nushu]

Mobility drill- http://www.t-nation....?id=1856085&cr=
It was a lot harder for me than I thought it would be. My Thai buddies used to sit like this, give it a try!

[niner]

Mobility drill- http://www.t-nation....?id=1856085&cr=
It was a lot harder for me than I thought it would be. My Thai buddies used to sit like this, give it a try!

There were a bunch of Vietnamese guys where I used to live that would hang out squatting like this, smoking cigarettes that they held kind of strangely; between there thumb and forefinger I think. I tried the squat. You're right, not that easy, is it? I can do it, but only if I hold onto something, otherwise I would probably fall on my butt.

[maxwatt]

Mobility drill- http://www.t-nation....?id=1856085&cr=
It was a lot harder for me than I thought it would be. My Thai buddies used to sit like this, give it a try!

There were a bunch of Vietnamese guys where I used to live that would hang out squatting like this, smoking cigarettes that they held kind of strangely; between there thumb and forefinger I think. I tried the squat. You're right, not that easy, is it? I can do it, but only if I hold onto something, otherwise I would probably fall on my butt.

Unless you do the Asian squat continuously while your bones are growing, the angle formed by the femur at the hip joint will not be wide enough to permit you to do this as an adult. Because westerners use chairs rather than squatting, we cannot squat properly. Our skeletons are not shaped for it.

[nushu]

Mobility drill- http://www.t-nation....?id=1856085&cr=
It was a lot harder for me than I thought it would be. My Thai buddies used to sit like this, give it a try!

There were a bunch of Vietnamese guys where I used to live that would hang out squatting like this, smoking cigarettes that they held kind of strangely; between there thumb and forefinger I think. I tried the squat. You're right, not that easy, is it? I can do it, but only if I hold onto something, otherwise I would probably fall on my butt.

Unless you do the Asian squat continuously while your bones are growing, the angle formed by the femur at the hip joint will not be wide enough to permit you to do this as an adult. Because westerners use chairs rather than squatting, we cannot squat properly. Our skeletons are not shaped for it.

I believe that it can be learned. I've been doing it several times a day and I can feel a vast improvement in my back/hip mobility. When I started a few weeks ago I could barley hold it for 5 sec, now 1 min is no problem and I'm more upright. Like most Americans I spend too much time setting, my goal is to correct some of the postural imbalances I've imposed on my body.

[Shepard]

The question is "Would I be comfortable with weight on my back in this position?".
And the answer is "No".

[missminni]

The question is "Would I be comfortable with weight on my back in this position?".
And the answer is "No".

Never with weight on your back. That would be really bad for your knees.
But I squat like this all the time as a resting position. I find it very comfortable. Using it as a squat position
for weight-lifting exercise isn't a good idea but getting up from this position slowly, putting your weight on your heels,
is actually great for the glutes. I love this squat.
If you get in this squat position and lean forward pushing your elbows to the floor, it's a great lower back stretch.
It's actually a natural position for relieving your bowels. Much more so than the western one of sitting on a toilet (which some
say is the cause of many of our back issues). It's also a good position to relieve constipation...Actually if toilets were lower
to the floor, it would be better all around. Sorry if I am grossing anyone out.
It's also a natural position for childbirth.

[nushu]

The question is "Would I be comfortable with weight on my back in this position?".
And the answer is "No".

When I do front squats and lift the Atlas stone- see my avatar- I'm basically in this position, and it's not uncomfortable. I've seen many Olympic lifters squat like this with heavy weight on their back, but they have fantastic mobility.

[missminni]

The question is "Would I be comfortable with weight on my back in this position?".
And the answer is "No".

When I do front squats and lift the Atlas stone- see my avatar- I'm basically in this position, and it's not uncomfortable. I've seen many Olympic lifters squat like this with heavy weight on their back, but they have fantastic mobility.

I have weight squatted like that and had trainers running over to me telling me not to...but if you
put your weight on your heels and the emphasis on your glutes, it feels good.

[Mind]

No problem for me. I have squatted like that quite often. I never new it was particular to "third world" countries.

[Shepard]

When I do front squats and lift the Atlas stone- see my avatar- I'm basically in this position, and it's not uncomfortable. I've seen many Olympic lifters squat like this with heavy weight on their back, but they have fantastic mobility.

They don't squat in this position:



Even an Olympic squat would have the bar too far back.

A front squat is a little different since there is more of a focus on squatting between your legs, but it's a different stance than that.

This might be a good mobility drill, I was just making the point that it's not really applicable to anything. This position would not allow the tightness you're going to want in the bottom of a squat. Overhead squats are mentioned in the article, and to me, they'd seem to be a much more applicable mobility assessment.

[david ellis]

I have weight squatted like that and had trainers running over to me telling me not to...but if you
put your weight on your heels and the emphasis on your glutes, it feels good.

That is funny, my trainer felt the same way, she told my wife, "What is he doing? Not using the Smith machine and squatting so low! It's not how I taught him!" Your right missminni, it does feel good. It is surprising, I don't understand yet why it feels so strong. I was encouraged to do deep squats from reading Pavel's "beyond Body Building".

[missminni]

I have weight squatted like that and had trainers running over to me telling me not to...but if you
put your weight on your heels and the emphasis on your glutes, it feels good.

That is funny, my trainer felt the same way, she told my wife, "What is he doing? Not using the Smith machine and squatting so low! It's not how I taught him!" Your right missminni, it does feel good. It is surprising, I don't understand yet why it feels so strong. I was encouraged to do deep squats from reading Pavel's "beyond Body Building".

they consider it bad form. you are not supposed to bend your knees more than a
90 degree angle. The thing is if you are squatting and putting your weight more on the front of your foot, the way classic squats are done,
or even by raising the heels slightly, which they also do because they really can't squat without raising their heels, going past a 90 degree angle is hard on your knees.
However if you go down all the way putting your weight on the heel of your foot and then press into your heels as you get up,
using your glutes to push up with instead of your quads, you don't strain your knees. It's an entirely different way to squat. You emphasize
different muscles. However, you do have to be careful not to engage your lower back as you rise, especially if you use weight. I don't use
weight anymore when I squat like this for that very reason.

Edited by missminni, 05 January 2008 - 09:39 AM.

[david ellis]

I have weight squatted like that and had trainers running over to me telling me not to...but if you
put your weight on your heels and the emphasis on your glutes, it feels good.

That is funny, my trainer felt the same way, she told my wife, "What is he doing? Not using the Smith machine and squatting so low! It's not how I taught him!" Your right missminni, it does feel good. It is surprising, I don't understand yet why it feels so strong. I was encouraged to do deep squats from reading Pavel's "beyond Body Building".

they consider it bad form. you are not supposed to bend your knees more than a
90 degree angle. The thing is if you are squatting and putting your weight more on the front of your foot, the way classic squats are done,
or even by raising the heels slightly, which they also do because they really can't squat without raising their heels, going past a 90 degree angle is hard on your knees.
However if you go down all the way putting your weight on the heel of your foot and then press into your heels as you get up,
using your glutes to push up with instead of your quads, you don't strain your knees. It's an entirely different way to squat. You emphasize
different muscles. However, you do have to be careful not to engage your lower back as you rise, especially if you use weight. I don't use
weight anymore when I squat like this for that very reason.

It is possible to go into a deep squat without the knees overhanging the toes, bending the knee more than 90 degrees. As you go down, sit down like there is a chair, in other words get your glutes as far back as you can. I was taught this technique in a kettlebell class. The weight on your back or a KB held in a clean position counters the off centerline position of the body.

You understand the problem very clearly - your statement proves it -"The thing is if you are squatting and putting your weight more on the front of your foot, the way classic squats are done, or even by raising the heels slightly, which they also do because they really can't squat without raising their heels, going past a 90 degree angle is hard on your knees. " You are right, it feels very powerful because the glutes and hamstrings drive the body back up from the heels.

My tibia, underneath the knee cap, is in bad shape, so I too go light with the weights. I enjoy the flexibility that I now have

[Shepard]

What is a classic squat? The only squat I'm aware of where your weight would be on your toes is the Hindu Squat.

[missminni]

What is a classic squat? The only squat I'm aware of where your weight would be on your toes is the Hindu Squat.

When I say classic, I mean the way gym trainers teach it where they never have your
knee go further down than a 90 degree angle. You are supposed to squat like you are sitting in a chair without
the chair being there. The weight is evenly distributed on the foot. However, often people cannot squat and keep
their heels down so they put a piece of wood under the heel. When they rise up they use their quads more
than their gluts. Then at the top of the squat when you are erect you are supposed to squeeze your gluts
and sort of thrust the hips forward. What's the hindu squat?

[missminni]

It is possible to go into a deep squat without the knees overhanging the toes, bending the knee more than 90 degrees. As you go down, sit down like there is a chair, in other words get your glutes as far back as you can. I was taught this technique in a kettlebell class. The weight on your back or a KB held in a clean position counters the off centerline position of the body.

You understand the problem very clearly - your statement proves it -"The thing is if you are squatting and putting your weight more on the front of your foot, the way classic squats are done, or even by raising the heels slightly, which they also do because they really can't squat without raising their heels, going past a 90 degree angle is hard on your knees. " You are right, it feels very powerful because the glutes and hamstrings drive the body back up from the heels.

My tibia, underneath the knee cap, is in bad shape, so I too go light with the weights. I enjoy the flexibility that I now have

I just checked my form in the mirror, and that's exactly how I do it and my knees are well behind the front of my foot and my butt is about 3 or 4 inches from the floor. Actually, the other way of squatting where you don't go past that 90 degree angle, puts more stress on the top of my knees. But the goal of that kind of squat it to isolate the quads. They each target a different area
ETA~with either squat, one has to concentrate on using the muscles and not the joints when rising. With the deep squats you engage glutes and hamstrings. with half squats you engage quads. Personally I like exercises that incorporate a stretch within the movement, and the deep squat does that.

Edited by missminni, 05 January 2008 - 05:55 PM.

[Shepard]

When I say classic, I mean the way gym trainers teach it where they never have your
knee go further down than a 90 degree angle. You are supposed to squat like you are sitting in a chair without
the chair being there. The weight is evenly distributed on the foot. However, often people cannot squat and keep
their heels down so they put a piece of wood under the heel. When they rise up they use their quads more
than their gluts. Then at the top of the squat when you are erect you are supposed to squeeze your gluts
and sort of thrust the hips forward. What's the hindu squat?

Okay, this is just another example of the poor training that is rampant in the fitness industry. The half-squat isn't an exercise, it just springs from a misunderstanding of kinesiology or laziness. In the case above, flexibility issues should be overcome first (or should be moving that way with less distance between heel and floor each session).

Hindu squat: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Hindu_squat

Also, weight would be on the toes for the sissy squat (http://www.exrx.net/...SissySquat.html). Those really suck.

Edited by shepard, 05 January 2008 - 07:05 PM.

[missminni]

When I say classic, I mean the way gym trainers teach it where they never have your
knee go further down than a 90 degree angle. You are supposed to squat like you are sitting in a chair without
the chair being there. The weight is evenly distributed on the foot. However, often people cannot squat and keep
their heels down so they put a piece of wood under the heel. When they rise up they use their quads more
than their gluts. Then at the top of the squat when you are erect you are supposed to squeeze your gluts
and sort of thrust the hips forward. What's the hindu squat?

Okay, this is just another example of the poor training that is rampant in the fitness industry. The half-squat isn't an exercise, it just springs from a misunderstanding of kinesiology or laziness. In the case above, flexibility issues should be overcome first (or should be moving that way with less distance between heel and floor each session).

Hindu squat: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Hindu_squat

Also, weight would be on the toes for the sissy squat (http://www.exrx.net/...SissySquat.html). Those really suck.

I agree with you about the fitness industry.
I actually do my own version of the hindu squat (never knew it was called that) keeping my legs parallel and close together I go to a deep squat onto my toes hold it, and then forward onto my knees, extend my feet behind me, then sitting on them to stretch my ankles out, then bend my toes back up and rise back up (exactly reverse of squatting down) without ever touching the floor with my hands. I have no idea if this is called anything but it feels great. Just looked at the sissy squat and in the words of scooby doo - huh?