312 replies to this topic

[missminni]

I'm curious.
When did you first get behind Obama? After the Iowa primary?

It was after I read Andrew Sullivan's article about him in The Atlantic. This was before Iowa, and even Oprah, I think. I linked to the article in post #132 of this thread.

I just read it. It appears it was written in Dec. 2007, at least by the url. That's the same month Oprah started
campaigning for him. Oprah's influence is undeniable. I would not be surprised if she gets an ambassadorship...maybe to the UN.
Hey what else is left for the richest woman in the world. The supreme court? Who knows. Please forgive my cynicism. I don't know why,
but I can't stand the woman. When she supported Arnold Schwarzenegger, I just lost it. She is on my forever sh*t list.

[missminni]

I have to agree with missminni's last thread ... regardless who is nominated ... I'm voting democrat.

That is of course if Ron Paul is nominated ... though I highly doubt it.

I love his tax policy. Have they actually figured out if they
would generate enough revenue that way?

[biknut]

I also think his presence in the White house will herald a paradigm shift in the debate over social inequities in our culture and provide many African American children with a role model of significantly more prominent and powerful imagery than a gansta rap star. This will help define a transition from the *post slavery,* *post civil rights* struggles to a new age of equality and self responsibility and establish a *count-down point* to the end of the affirmative action.

Whether in five, ten, or twenty years, his presence in the White will force a rethink of such domestic policy and initiate a debate on not if we should phase out such policy but instead how and when we will. Consider this analogous to how Clinton and not a Republican could institute Welfare Reform even though most of his recommendations came almost verbatim from the Republican platform.

This to me, is the most important reason for supporting O. I like the idea of dramatically improving race relations in the US. What the rest of the world thinks about us isn't real high on my list of important things to worry about.

[niner]

I'm curious.
When did you first get behind Obama? After the Iowa primary?

It was after I read Andrew Sullivan's article about him in The Atlantic. This was before Iowa, and even Oprah, I think. I linked to the article in post #132 of this thread.

I just read it. It appears it was written in Dec. 2007, at least by the url. That's the same month Oprah started
campaigning for him. Oprah's influence is undeniable. I would not be surprised if she gets an ambassadorship...maybe to the UN.
Hey what else is left for the richest woman in the world. The supreme court? Who knows. Please forgive my cynicism. I don't know why,
but I can't stand the woman. When she supported Arnold Schwarzenegger, I just lost it. She is on my forever sh*t list.

Yeah, I kinda noticed she wasn't your favorite. The print edition comes out earlier. That's where I saw it. But apparently Oprah was talking about endorsing Obama in early September, according to my quick google of it. I can assure you that Oprah had no effect on me; I spend too much time online to even watch much tv. I can't say whether Andrew Sullivan is under her sway, but I kind of doubt it. BTW, did you happen to see the episode of Futurama (set about a thousand years in the future) where someone was involved in a weird religion, and that professor guy says "why can't you just be in a normal religion, like Oprahism?"

[Alien65]

Barack Obama was chosen by the media almost immediately after his speech at the 2004 convention. Without the talking heads, he wouldn't even be a candidate. The man has no qualification to be president and is only a media generated fad. I predict that he will probably win the nomination but then lose the election. There are not enough black voters in this country to counter the prejudice of some white voters who will say one thing and then do another. There is a reason why he did so good in the caucuses. It's called feel good political correctness when all eyes are on you.

[missminni]

Yeah, I kinda noticed she wasn't your favorite. The print edition comes out earlier. That's where I saw it. But apparently Oprah was talking about endorsing Obama in early September, according to my quick google of it. I can assure you that Oprah had no effect on me; I spend too much time online to even watch much tv. I can't say whether Andrew Sullivan is under her sway, but I kind of doubt it. BTW, did you happen to see the episode of Futurama (set about a thousand years in the future) where someone was involved in a weird religion, and that professor guy says "why can't you just be in a normal religion, like Oprahism?"

I'm sure she had no effect on you, but inadvertently, the attention she garnered for him might have.
Oprahism, haha. I guess Obamaism is an offshoot of it. The Church of O.
Oprah is the liberal version of Rev. Moon.
With her new Oprah TV network in the works, and her vast personal wealth,
she has more power and influence than the pope and the president combined.

[missminni]

Barack Obama was chosen by the media almost immediately after his speech at the 2004 convention. Without the talking heads, he wouldn't even be a candidate. The man has no qualification to be president and is only a media generated fad. I predict that he will probably win the nomination but then lose the election. There are not enough black voters in this country to counter the prejudice of some white voters who will say one thing and then do another. There is a reason why he did so good in the caucuses. It's called feel good political correctness when all eyes are on you.

ITA with you, except that he was chosen way before the speech, and not by the press.
Democrats were doing fund raising for him in that regard before he even became Senator. I remember my friend telling
me about a breakfast she and her husband went to ($200 a plate) that was raising money for his senatorial campaign here
in New York with the explicit theme being him running for president in 2008. We were shocked at the time. Who was this guy?

[biknut]

This story illustrates how fake Hellary is. She's winning with Hispanic voters, but loosing with Black voters, so she fires her Hispanic campaign manager and replaces her with a black lady. Actually she tried for a while to have them both manage simultaneously, but they couldn't get along for some reason (probably because they're both a couple of biaches. you'd have to be to put up with Hell) so the Hispanic was cut. Hellary will do, or say anything to get your vote. The problem is she's so transparent.

I predict 2 days after she looses the nomination Bill is toast.

'SUPER' LATINO SLAMS CLINTON

http://www.nypost.co...inton_97237.htm

[missminni]

This story illustrates how fake Hellary is. She's winning with Hispanic voters, but loosing with Black voters, so she fires her Hispanic campaign manager and replaces her with a black lady. Actually she tried for a while to have them both manage simultaneously, but they couldn't get along for some reason (probably because they're both a couple of biaches. you'd have to be to put up with Hell) so the Hispanic was cut. Hellary will do, or say anything to get your vote. The problem is she's so transparent.

I predict 2 days after she looses the nomination Bill is toast.

'SUPER' LATINO SLAMS CLINTON

http://www.nypost.co...inton_97237.htm

Quoting the New York Post is akin to quoting the National Enquirer. First of all it's a very conservative paper owned by Rupert Murdoch that came out in strong support of Obama, which in itself raises suspicions of an agenda. In other words it is prejudiced against Hillary, as you seem to be as well. Quite honestly, and with all due respect, your persistence on calling her Hellery negates any valid criticism of her you may have.

[biknut]

Quite honestly, and with all due respect, your persistence on calling her Hellery negates any valid criticism of her you may have. [/font][/size]

I'm sorry, I just don't like her. If she were elected president this country would become even more divided than Bush has caused it to be.

On the other hand Obama is so smooth and good he could be the Antichrist. Humm, when I think about it the timing is about right too. 4 more years till 2012.

Edited by biknut, 12 February 2008 - 03:26 PM.

[biknut]

Future News Headline

HRC looses Democratic nomination because of strong BO.

[biknut]

Looks like the battle for Texas has began. I just saw a commercial on television for Obama. He's endorsed by the Dallas Morning news.

[dannov]

If you like Obama, then you'd love "The Rock" from his WWF days. Why? Because he's a carbon-copy. Obama is not a politician, he's an entertainer. He has no idea how to stop our rate of 10% inflation per year, has no clue on economics, has no plans to end our ridiculous foreign empire to save our domestic programs and help reduce our debt for future generations. But boy, does he sure present himself well! He has charisma, looks, youth, exuberance, and a great presence. How presidential right? Oh wait, what exactly is our president supposed to do again? Look in the Constitution--charisma, looks, youth, exuberance, and presence are not requirements to be president.

People have tried to draw analogies between him and JFK, however, JFK had was both a Representative and Senator as well as a nobel-prize winning author before he had an opportunity as president. JFK knew the problems our society faced--he wanted to shred the CIA into pieces and wanted to kill the Federal Reserve and even issued an executive order 10 days prior to his assassination to back our currency on silver. Obama is simply a Council of Foreign Relations puppet, as is Hillary. Choose your poison, either way, they'll both serve globalism/corporatism and not American sovereign interests.

Obama wants to give $4000 per college student, sounds great right? Ya, that's until you realize that our country is bankrupt and $57 trillion in debt. Where is this money coming from? The printing press. What happens then? More inflation, less purchasing power for the dollar, or greater debt if we choose to borrow it from the Chinese (if they even let us borrow any more by then). The only way to fix this country is to greatly reduce government as our fathers intended it, and put the power back in the hands of the people. Not by talking about change and hope, when the fact of the matter is, we're heading straight towards one heluva Depression.

Edited by dannov, 13 February 2008 - 04:21 PM.

[modelcadet]

On the other hand Obama is so smooth and good he could be the Antichrist. Humm, when I think about it the timing is about right too. 4 more years till 2012.

With Barack Obama as President, we will have a positive technological singularity on the winter solstice at the end of his first term. If you vote for Obama, all of your wildest dreams will come true.

[Post censored by a Navigator re: poking fun at racial stereotypes]

Finally, you should vote for Barack because you've seen this video

Highlights:
-Cabinet level technology advisor
-Universal broadband
-Increased investment in basic science research
-Net neutrality
-"Google for government"
-Civil liberties and all that jazz

Edited by modelcadet, 14 February 2008 - 08:04 AM.

[Cyberbrain]

Looks like Obama has surpassed Hillary and is well on his way to winning the democratic nomination.

Barack Obama
Won 22 states, 1,223 delegates

Hillary Clinton
Won 12 states, 1,198 delegates

As for Ron Paul, it doesn't look so good. John McCain has clearly won the republican nomination.

John McCain
Won 16 states, 821 delegates

Ron Paul
Won 0 states, 14 delegates

Edited by Kostas, 13 February 2008 - 05:20 PM.

[dannov]

Looks like Obama has surpassed Hillary and is well on his way to winning the democratic nomination.

Barack Obama
Won 22 states, 1,223 delegates

Hillary Clinton
Won 12 states, 1,198 delegates

As for Ron Paul, it doesn't look so good. John McCain has clearly won the republican nomination.

John McCain
Won 16 states, 821 delegates

Ron Paul
Won 0 states, 14 delegates

Well, you have to understand how the primaries work. If this goes to a brokered convention, Paul will most likely take the nomination. This hinges on Huckabee staying in the race. Delegates, NOT popular vote, determine the nominee of a party.

Now, you may say "Well, McCain has 821 delegates and Paul 14 (actually the total is more than 42 but irrelevant)." And, you'd be right. However, many of those delegates for McCain are Paul delegates, and many (based on state rules) are uncommitted. What's this mean? That means, as long as McCain doesn't have the 1191 delegates or so that's required pre-convention to automatically give him the nod, then those delegates can vote for whomever they choose. Now, you may be wondering why Paul delegates would be in McCain's delegate count. Well, the delegate process requires a lot out of a citizen, and only the most ardent and fervent candidate supporters will volunteer to be delegates. It usually requires money to register to become one, you must present speeches to get voted on, not to mention cover all of your expenses to the RNC in St. Paul. It takes a lot of committment and, fortunately, RP supporters are the most committed out there and have been sweeping the delegate spots. For example, Ron Paul in Washington came in a close 3rd place in the caucuses, yet got the majority of the delegates and McCain the minority (1/7 of the delegates) despite coming in first in the popular straw poll vote.

Abe Lincoln went into the convention with 10% of the delegates. Kennedy--40% (if memory serves me right). This really, truly hinges on a brokered convention. Keep voting for RP meanwhile!

[abolitionist]

Here's how i narrow it down;

1. McCain is dangerous - he's a religious hawk bent on bomb bomb bombing Iran... - poor impulse control and a trigger finger are not good qualities for commander in chief of the world's largest military.

2. Hillary wants mandatory health care - meaning even the poor would be forced to pay for it... she's also a career politician without the integrity to leave Bill Clinton - any woman with any self-respect would have sought divorce.

that leaves Obama

[Alien65]

Here's how i narrow it down;

1. McCain is dangerous - he's a religious hawk bent on bomb bomb bombing Iran... - poor impulse control and a trigger finger are not good qualities for commander in chief of the world's largest military.

2. Hillary wants mandatory health care - meaning even the poor would be forced to pay for it... she's also a career politician without the integrity to leave Bill Clinton - any woman with any self-respect would have sought divorce.

that leaves Obama

Agree on McCain.

Hillary and Bill are just like me and my ex girlfriend. She could care less how many women he plays with as long as he doesn't get caught and embarress her. They are best friends first which makes for a far better relationship than most people are involved in. As far as health care, she want's universal care but is smart enough to know that it can't be accomplished in our corrupt and greedy capitalistic society (Unlike other civilized industrial countries). So she is working with the scam artists (insurance companies, drug companies, AMA) to find a compromise that achieves the goal.

And who the hell is Barack Obama? If white, he wouldn't even be a candidate because the media would have ignored him instead of making him the second coming of Christ.

Edited by Alien65, 15 February 2008 - 08:58 AM.

[missminni]

Agree on McCain.

Hillary and Bill are just like me and my ex girlfriend. She could care less how many women he plays with as long as he doesn't get caught and embarress her. They are best friends first which makes for a far better relationship than most people are involved in. As far as health care, she want's universal care but is smart enough to know that it can't be accomplished in our corrupt and greedy capitalistic society (Unlike other civilized industrial countries). So she is working with the scam artists (insurance companies, drug companies, AMA) to find a compromise that achieves the goal.

And who the hell is Barack Obama? If white, he wouldn't even be a candidate because the media would have ignored him instead of making him the second coming of Christ.

I agree. I am getting so tired of this idol worship cult that has grown up around him. I swear
they look like they are ready to drink the kool-aid.

Edited by missminni, 15 February 2008 - 03:01 PM.

[biknut]

Hi I'm Hillary Clinton, and what I try to do everyday is figure out how to help someone. (like herself)

That's got to be the worst political commercial I've ever seen.

Pleazee, get the heck off my TV, and get out of Texas. Go back to New York where you belong.. I'm sick of looking at you every 5 minutes.

Edited by biknut, 15 February 2008 - 07:37 PM.

[DukeNukem]

My quick 2 cents...

In the last 50 years, and definitely in the last 20, both parties are rotten to their cores. I have voted independent for four elections just to send protest votes to the major two parties.

This time around, I'm learning toward Obama, simply because he appears to be the most intelligent candidate to come along since JFK. He also appears to be a natural leader, something we've sorely lacked since Reagan. I love that Obama is for lobbyist reform, but my worry is that once in office the realities of the system beat him down and this ends up on the back-burner. Frankly, lobbyist influence is one of the primary causes of our country's failing, if not THE primary cause. So, I treat this issue as all-important, and at least Obama seems to want to change it. Once in office, though, I predict failure. The system is too entrenched.

Edited by DukeNukem, 15 February 2008 - 06:03 PM.

[biknut]

When Hillary Clinton said, way back in New Hampshire, that Vladimir Putin "doesn't have a soul," I figured that would be the sort of thing the Russian wouldn't be pleased about. But when I called the foreign ministry the next day for comment, it was Orthodox Christmas, and I let it slide.

He was asked about the remark at his press conference yesterday, however, and indeed wasn't pleased.

The former KGB lieutenant colonel appeared to lash out at U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton — a leading Democratic candidate for president — when one reporter quoted her as saying that former KGB officers have no soul:

"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head," Putin said.

http://www.politico....vs_Clinton.html

Did he mean have a head, or give good head?

[missminni]

Hi I'm Hillary Clinton, and what I try to do everyday is figure out how to help someone. (like herself)

That's got to be the worst political commercial I've ever seen.

Pleazee, get the fcuk off my TV, and get out of Texas. Go back to New York where you belong.. I'm sick of looking at you every 5 minutes.

Likewise, I'm sick of Obama and his hope for a change crap. I find it hard to believe all these "college graduates" who
support him fall for such trite advertising slogans. If he wins the nomination, which I am not so sure he will and I hope he doesn't, we can count on McCain being president. I'm quite sure McCain is hoping he gets nominated too. He will be so easy to trounce.

Edited by missminni, 15 February 2008 - 08:27 PM.

[missminni]

My quick 2 cents...

In the last 50 years, and definitely in the last 20, both parties are rotten to their cores. I have voted independent for four elections just to send protest votes to the major two parties.

This time around, I'm learning toward Obama, simply because he appears to be the most intelligent candidate to come along since JFK. He also appears to be a natural leader, something we've sorely lacked since Reagan. I love that Obama is for lobbyist reform, but my worry is that once in office the realities of the system beat him down and this ends up on the back-burner. Frankly, lobbyist influence is one of the primary causes of our country's failing, if not THE primary cause. So, I treat this issue as all-important, and at least Obama seems to want to change it. Once in office, though, I predict failure. The system is too entrenched.

IMO He's already owned, certainly by Excelon. And please. JFK was no great shakes. I used to love him too..but I was 14 at the time.
Knowing what we now know, how can one think he was a great president or even won the election in a fair manner? The similarity between
JFK and Obama seems to be that the same way JFK had his Daddy fixing everything for him, Obama has Ted Kennedy and John Kerry
fixing it for him. As super delegates they are voting against the people of their state.
Great leader? He's been propped up and he will owe big time. JMO

[missminni]

When Hillary Clinton said, way back in New Hampshire, that Vladimir Putin "doesn't have a soul," I figured that would be the sort of thing the Russian wouldn't be pleased about. But when I called the foreign ministry the next day for comment, it was Orthodox Christmas, and I let it slide.

He was asked about the remark at his press conference yesterday, however, and indeed wasn't pleased.

The former KGB lieutenant colonel appeared to lash out at U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton — a leading Democratic candidate for president — when one reporter quoted her as saying that former KGB officers have no soul:

"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head," Putin said.

http://www.politico....vs_Clinton.html

Did he mean have a head, or give good head?

Putin's a pedophile. You must have your perverts mixed up.

[icyT]

I never got that impression from Putin.

[missminni]

I never got that impression from Putin.

Read this article by Alexander Litvinenko four months before his assassination.

[Cyberbrain]

If he wins the nomination, which I am not so sure he will and I hope he doesn't, we can count on McCain being president.

Quite the opposite if you study the psychology of conservatives. Obama is wining far more independent, libertarian and conservative voters then Hillary.

Let's face it, Obama and Hillary have essentially the exact same policies. Ending the Iraq war, universal health care, pro-choice, etc.

The only difference is that one is black and the other is a woman.

The only reason I'm voting Obama is because he's the only one who has a fighting chance against McCain.

McCain would eat Hillary alive! It's the Republican dream to see Hillary humiliated on stage. For some reason conservatives hate Hillary, and if she's nominated, two thirds of the country will unite against her.

My dream is to see Ron Paul as president with Mike Gravel as vice president, or vice versa. They're the two only smart candidates who know exactly what this country needs.

But since they have no chance, my vote goes to the only other candidate that has a chance.

[missminni]

If he wins the nomination, which I am not so sure he will and I hope he doesn't, we can count on McCain being president.

Quite the opposite if you study the psychology of conservatives. Obama is wining far more independent, libertarian and conservative voters then Hillary.

Let's face it, Obama and Hillary have essentially the exact same policies. Ending the Iraq war, universal health care, pro-choice, etc.

The only difference is that one is black and the other is a woman.

The only reason I'm voting Obama is because he's the only one who has a fighting chance against McCain.

McCain would eat Hillary alive! It's the Republican dream to see Hillary humiliated on stage. For some reason conservatives hate Hillary, and if she's nominated, two thirds of the country will unite against her.

My dream is to see Ron Paul as president with Mike Gravel as vice president, or vice versa. They're the two only smart candidates who know exactly what this country needs.

But since they have no chance, my vote goes to the only other candidate that has a chance.

I know this argument, but I don't agree with it. Obama is not going to get the conservative vote.
The more popular Obama gets, the more he unravels and starts to
look like the front he really is. The front for the faction of the democratic party that see themeselves having more power and inlfuence
with Obama than with Hillary. It's always been apparent to me and it won't take long for people to catch on.
This latest embarrassment of plagiarizing Gov Patricks speech (governor of Mass) should be an indication that Obama has questionable ethics. The fact the Gov. Patrick tried to play it off as not important only makes it worse. In a state where the popular vote was for Hillary, the two senators
and governor for that state are backing Obama with their super delegate votes and nobody is calling it unfair. Yet they are criticizing Hillary for trying to win with super delegates.
Personally, I think as this continues and Obama is revealed for the fake he really is, Hillary is going to start looking better and better. With Obama, you don't know what you get....Kennedy, Kerry, Excelon...who knows...he doesn't even know.
He has no plan at all. He's a total front. They put him up to beat Hillary. That's it. And when they try to play him off as a great orator and Honest Abe, and then he plagiarizes a speech, he doesn't look so honest anymore does he. At least with Hillary you know what you get.
Another thing you haven't accounted for....there are democrats, older people who respect experience and who love Hillary and they won't vote for Obama. They will vote for McCain instead. Nobody's polling them, but they will vote. Florida might be the state where that happens.
I have voted as a democrat all my life, but the way they
have handled this primary is making me reconsider. I don't trust them. AFAIC they are no better than Republicans. We very much need a third party and this might be the election to get one. Previously I said if Obama won the nomination I would vote for him. I've changed my mind.
I won't. That's how much I dislike what's going on. I won't vote republican, but I won't vote for Obama. From my experience, when I change my mind, there are millions of others thinking similarly.

Let's face it, Obama and Hillary have essentially the exact same policies. Ending the Iraq war, universal health care, pro-choice, etc.

The only difference is that one is black and the other is a woman.

This is not really true. The difference is that she has developed the programs and policies that Obama is claiming as his own. The difference
is that she has experience and Obama has none. The difference is with Obama we don't know who is pulling the strings and with Hillary
we do. The truth is that there is a tremendous difference, but the sad part is that being black or a woman is the only difference that is
being noticed. And it seems like a man, no matter what his race or experience, is preferable to a woman.

Edited by missminni, 19 February 2008 - 07:03 PM.

[Cyberbrain]

I like Hillary and Obama equally. And in my opinion they'll both do a good job, and if Hillary is nominated, I'll still (maybe) vote for her.

But lets be reasonable. Republicans and conservatives hate Hillary far more then they hate Obama ... and regardless of the argument against this, I can see in my own university campus, how much hatred exists for Hillary, while Obama is seen as neutral.

Now, I'm not talking about the whole country (though on that scale it's also true) ... I'm talking from my own experiences in Europe and as a US college student.

The fact remains that conservatives (especially ultra- and neocons) everywhere hate Hillary more then any other democrat (even Bill), and in my view McCain will just eat her alive.

Plus you have to look it at a Global stand point. Who do you think will appeal most to the world ... a black half Muslim or a white woman. I know it's very racist and sexist ... but that's the way the world is.

I'm just trying to do what ever it takes to prevent another war hungry, pro life, Republican from becoming president.