23 replies to this topic

[VictorBjoerk]

Yes I'm wondering how low it is actually possible to go in calories.

http://www.dallasnew...orie.5373e.html

Michael Cooper weighs probably slightly under 130 pounds,6'2 tall and goes around on 1100 calories a day and Michael Rae who is 6 ft tall and weighs 115 pounds goes on a ratio of 1900 calories.This just doesn't make sense to me how two Cr practitioners of comparable height and weight can eat such different amounts of food.

I've read that it's been proven that Liza May really eats only 900 calories a day and that she eats only 56.6% of what a woman of her height and weight usually eats.Is it really possible to lower your metabolic rate so much from average?A 6'2 tall man weighing 130 pounds needs according to a daily requirement calcultator in the range of 1800 calories even if he is sedentary.
I'm just wondering but if these people can function on so little calories why does then Michael Rae eat 1900??The degree of antiaging effect seem to occur when you eat much less than a person of your height and weight usually does and not just because you eat little to sustain a low weight.

Something feels wrong here or is it just me?

[Matt]

It's really simple, a lot of people tend to stop weighing their food, they guess portion sizes because they think they can.... People who report higher calorie intakes of similar heights usually end up weighing less than the ones saying they eat very low calorie. I have been doing CR for three years now and I'm 5ft 7 and weigh only 109-110 lbs, with my lowest weight being 104 lbs. So my BMI now is around 17.2. I don't *think* I've ever had a bmi above 20 before.

In terms of BMI, women have a critical BMI of around 11 and Men 13. Reaching this and going below you face a high risk of death from multiple organ failure.

Edited by Matt, 05 February 2008 - 01:57 PM.

[platypus]

It's really simple, a lot of people tend to stop weighing their food, they guess portion sizes because they think they can.... People who report higher calorie intakes of similar heights usually end up weighing less than the ones saying they eat very low calorie. I have been doing CR for three years now and I'm 5ft 7 and weigh only 109-110 lbs, with my lowest weight being 104 lbs. So my BMI now is around 17.2. I don't *think* I've ever had a bmi above 20 before.

17.2? That's quite low. How do you feel physically and mentally at that weight?

[VictorBjoerk]

Yes that is true.But the metabolic rate can change after years of dieting.It is well-known that some obese people that have been yo-yo dieting can actually gain weight on under 1000 calories a day.(I assume they are of average height)
Michael Cooper has as the article says been doing calorie restriction for a very long time,the longest I've ever heard of,reportedly since 1986.His metabolic rate may have adjusted during all the years so he actually don't need to eat more than 1100 calories to sustain his current weight and body composition.Now I'm not an expert of this but as I've heard the basal metabolic rate can change very far from the "normal" value like in the case of the well-known still obese mice on calorie restriction who outlived the skinny ones eating ad lib by far.Yes they had a changed gene but you can still systematically manipulate your metabolic system through dieting to sustain on very few calories although you still have the same need for optimal nutrition.

Just look here!
http://www.scientifi...alth/cron1.html

"When a person achieves material and energy equilibrium with fewer calories, the calculated caloric deficit reflects an adaptation to lower calorie consumption compared to the subjects from which the equations were derived"

Wouldn't you be able to do very severe Cron and still have a normal BMI through teaching your metabolic system to sustain on few calories?That's what I think Cooper and May have done to some extent.

Comments are appreciated!

[VictorBjoerk]

It's really simple, a lot of people tend to stop weighing their food, they guess portion sizes because they think they can.... People who report higher calorie intakes of similar heights usually end up weighing less than the ones saying they eat very low calorie. I have been doing CR for three years now and I'm 5ft 7 and weigh only 109-110 lbs, with my lowest weight being 104 lbs. So my BMI now is around 17.2. I don't *think* I've ever had a bmi above 20 before.

17.2? That's quite low. How do you feel physically and mentally at that weight?

17.2 isn't that low?It's a perfectly healthy BMI associated with low health risks,it's only slightly underweight.I'm not far from that myself although I'm not doing CR.

[Shannon Vyff]

After staying at 16.5 to 16.8 for a while, I realized it was too low for my body--I had a lot of problems with wound healing. After increasing my protein and gaining a few pounds-I was much happier staying at 17.2 to 17.5, I stayed there for a few years--it is my favorite place to be. With CR you do have to do a fair amount of experimenting with what you like, in addition to reading books and participating in the email lists. I'm sure you've seen the CR website? There are some discussion groups you can sign up for there where people go into great detail about their calories, protein/fat/carb ratios--etc. Right now I'm at BMI 18.8 and it feels a bit to heavy, I can feel it in my joints--my mobility is increased when I'm a bit lower. I however am planning on carrying a pregnancy, and I'm doing a high amount of working out-so keeping my BMI a bit higher is good for now at age 32, I'm sure I'll lower it within a decade or so.

[platypus]

17.2? That's quite low. How do you feel physically and mentally at that weight?

17.2 isn't that low?It's a perfectly healthy BMI associated with low health risks,it's only slightly underweight.I'm not far from that myself although I'm not doing CR.

Well, low enough for probably causing problems in hobbies/sports where strength is needed (although it's possible to train small muscles to be strong as well).

[VictorBjoerk]

This thread seems to have died as I've not been posting for a while....Could anyone explain the first question to me.
As far as I understand Michael Rae is one of the most hardcore people in the cr society as he tracks his calories very exactly but still 1950 calories a day sounds very much considering his low weight.

Roy Walford himself consumed 1600 calories a day and I assume he was correct in his estimations although he was shorter and heavier than Rae.

And finally the article about Michael Cooper consuming 1100 calories a day(That's only 55% of Michael Rae's intake!) and he is around the same BMI as Michael Rae.

Michael Rae's calorie intake seems to be among the highest of the Cr people although he seems to be one of the thinnest. E.g Brian Delaney also consumes far less than Michael although being heavier.

I am very confused and I would appreciate any comments.Is it possible to live on 1100 calories a day being 6'2 tall and weighing 130 pounds???.If so it would have a great anti-aging effect in the range of 60% restriction and why does then Rae eat 1950?

I am doing a schoolwork about Cr so I really want to figure out this mess.

/Victor

[Johan]

Perhaps it depends on their individual metabolism rates? Michael Rae might have a faster metabolism than Michael Cooper, and his calorie intake may be adjusted based on that?

[Matt]

17.2? That's quite low. How do you feel physically and mentally at that weight?

17.2 isn't that low?It's a perfectly healthy BMI associated with low health risks,it's only slightly underweight.I'm not far from that myself although I'm not doing CR.

Well, low enough for probably causing problems in hobbies/sports where strength is needed (although it's possible to train small muscles to be strong as well).

No I never did have problems even at a BMI of 16.4 in competing against others in sports. Neither did it affect my weight lifting than when I had a higher BMI of 18+. I might be thin, but I'm not weak. My father used to be extremely strong, and so have I been during my teens, even though I had always been thin.

Edited by Matt, 28 February 2008 - 11:39 PM.

[cyborgdreamer]

Yes I'm wondering how low it is actually possible to go in calories.

You could always become a breatharian but I doubt that would benefit your longevity...

[VictorBjoerk]

A slow metabolism would be very beneficial as far as I understand doing Cr.So Rae would for sure strive to eat 1100 calories a day.I really don't know if it's possible for a 6'2 male to live on 1100 calories a day all year round but it would have a great anti-aging effect if true.

Matt: I would be happy if you could answer some questions about your cr regime.
Do you have a problem with being cold doing Cr?
How did you learn about Cr?
How did your family and friends react when you started it?
Do you adapt when dining out with friends or relatives?
What is the most negative thing with being thin?
Did you feel good initially when starting the diet or did you feel like you were depriving yourself?
Are you were you are or do you plan to go lower in calorie intake?
Do you weigh all your food or do you estimate?

[Shepard]

I'm just wondering but if these people can function on so little calories why does then Michael Rae eat 1900??The degree of antiaging effect seem to occur when you eat much less than a person of your height and weight usually does and not just because you eat little to sustain a low weight.

You've got to look at activity patterns. On top of that, CR seems to be a case of diminishing returns for humans.

A slow metabolism would be very beneficial as far as I understand doing Cr

Why?

Edited by shepard, 29 February 2008 - 05:20 PM.

[s123]

My BMI is around 15,5. The lowest ever was 14,6 (when I had the flu) but that lasted for only 2 days after that my BMI started to rise again to normal. I don't think that I have ever had a BMI of 16,5 in my whole life (even on a crap diet).

I would be happy if you could answer some questions about your cr regime.
Do you have a problem with being cold doing Cr?
How did you learn about Cr?
How did your family and friends react when you started it?
Do you adapt when dining out with friends or relatives?
What is the most negative thing with being thin?
Did you feel good initially when starting the diet or did you feel like you were depriving yourself?
Are you were you are or do you plan to go lower in calorie intake?
Do you weigh all your food or do you estimate?

My body temperature is low and I frequently have cold when other people find it the right temperature. So, put on some extra clothes.
I leant about CR by reading Fantastic voyage. I changed my diet the same day.
They are concerned about my weight.
I almost never eat at restaurants. At the university I just eat some raw vegetables in the lunch pause. When I stay at someone’s place I always bring my food with me.
Having cold when you go outside in the winter is the biggest disadvantage of CR to me.
I felt great and still do.
Not for the moment but when I become older (maybe when I become 40 or so) I will need to lower my calorie intake.
Some things I weigh (like oats) but things like vegetables not.

[Matt]

You've got to look at activity patterns. On top of that, CR seems to be a case of diminishing returns for humans.

But there is no evidence, no 100 year study on CR humans showing that this is true. We know that rhesus monkeys are responding to CR well, with one study showing that 30% CR = 30% life extension.

[Matt]

Do you have a problem with being cold doing Cr?

My temperature is 36.0 degrees C. I do not mind or care about it. I don't even think about it

How did you learn about Cr?

Might have first been in Kurzweils book, but I read aprils CR blog and went from there

How did your family and friends react when you started it?

They hated the idea and thought I was going to die of starvation.

Do you adapt when dining out with friends or relatives?

I never ate at out often, only when I went on holiday to the U.S. This has been true all my life.

What is the most negative thing with being thin?

Other peoples reactions to you...

Did you feel good initially when starting the diet or did you feel like you were depriving yourself?

I felt great when I started CR. It cured my severe hay fever allergy, acne, made my sleep amazing, and I felt full of energy. Plus a as a bonus I found learning things to be much easier.

Are you were you are or do you plan to go lower in calorie intake?

Not until I am sure that this level is safe. I want to see how it goes for a few years before any change. I did initially have a lower calorie intake but I thought it was too low (1550k/cal). So now I take in 1700k/cal.

Do you weigh all your food or do you estimate?

I weigh everything. Sounds awful, but it takes no more than 5 minutes of my day... just really fast at it.

[Matt]

I think Michael said before that he was skinny prior to going on calorie restriction and he was consuming 3000k/cal a day. Meaning he had a BMI of around 19 or so.

[Shepard]

But there is no evidence, no 100 year study on CR humans showing that this is true. We know that rhesus monkeys are responding to CR well, with one study showing that 30% CR = 30% life extension.

Sure, but that goes into the heap of all CR-research that we try to assume translates to human lifespan.

I'm sure that you keep up to date on this more than I...is there anything in rhesus monkeys showing that a 10% reduction = 10% increase in lifespan, 20%=20%, and such?

[VictorBjoerk]

Thanks for all the answers,interesting to hear

However I am still confused with the calorie discrepancy between the practioners

Shepard:What do you know about Cr?,how do you know the results will be diminishing?



Some people seem to live long although horrible food habits.The king of tonga weighed over 200 kilograms for a long part of his adult life and must have consumed in the range of 15000 calories a day to sustain that kind of frame.However he lived to 88 although the enormous free radical damage he must have been exposed to through his food intake.Wouldn't obesity make you age rapidly if the calorie restriction theory is right? Anecdotically it doesn't seem like that,They die of heart disease and that kind of things but they do certainly not look prematurely aged compared to other people.

[Matt]

take a look at this thread Shonghow

http://www.imminst.o...ics-t15167.html

[Shepard]

Shepard:how do you know the results will be diminishing?

I don't know. I don't know if CR will increase lifespan much more than expected or make any significant difference in the long run. The mere fact of being in a caloric deficit is going to improve tons of metabolic parameters and gene expression hopefully favorable to longevity. If that is the main mechanism and it's not just a number thing, I don't see the degree of CR as important as the fact that you're practicing CR.

[VictorBjoerk]

S123: A bmi 15.5 sounds very low. It's even lower than Michael Rae's. What is your height and weight? Do you have regular check-ups with doctors? What do they think of your regime?

The results of the monkeys are striking!Enough to convince any motivated person to start on this diet.

[VictorBjoerk]

Does anybody here think the supercentenarians may have done cr unintentionally?

[Matt]

Does anybody here think the supercentenarians may have done cr unintentionally?

I think some centenarians and super centenarians might have been CR'd at some point in their life. There are a few ways to become a super centenarian from research. Genetics, Diet, and less likely exercise, staying thin. In fact, the video mentions that the majority of the Super Centenarians were thin throughout life. In japan for example, there might be more centenarians because of diet related factors, whereas in the US more likely to have genetic.

Story of two Super Centenarians are interviewed in this program, and what centenarians have in common.

PART1
http://mfile.akamai....491786.200k.asx

PART2
http://mfile.akamai....502916.200k.asx

Common factor was centenarians were 'lean' throughout life/.

Edited by Matt, 06 March 2008 - 06:28 PM.