60 replies to this topic

[ajnast4r]

that article makes me want to punch myself in the face

[senseix]

that article makes me want to punch myself in the face

LOL i needed a good laugh this morning, i read your reply and seriously couldn't stop laughing, thanks

[krillin]

LOL! What's a guy to do? I surrender. If I remember correctly the opinion piece was backed up by studies.

1. Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, Edition 16. F.A. Davis Company: Philadelphia,1989, p. 2000.
2. JAMA 2002; 287:3116.
3. Vinson, J.A., Bose P. Comparative Bioavailability to Humans of Ascorbic Acid Alone or in a Citrus Extract. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1998, Vol 38, No 3, p. 601-604.
4. Vinson, J.A., and Hsu. Effect of Vitamin A,E, and a citrus extract on in vitro and in vivo Lipid Peroxidation." Medical Science Research, 1992, 20, 145-146.
5. Duke, James. Handbook of Chemical Constituents of Grasses, Herbs, and other Economical Plants. CRC Press, Boca Raton. 1992

These don't back up the lie that synthetic vitamin C is any different from natural vitamin C. The process starts from glucose, so there is no chirality problem. And who cares about a small increase in bioavailability by taking it in the form of a citrus extract? It's cheaper just to take a larger dose of the synthetic.

Taking the synthetic form of Vitamin E is proven to actually suck vitamins and minerals right out of the bones which can do more harm than good to the body!

Where's the support for this? Alpha tocopherol does deplete gamma tocopherol, but both natural and synthetic do that.

In order for the body to absorb and use a vitamin, all of the parts of the complex must be present.

No citation was provided here either, because it's just no good dirty hippie pseudoscience.

[ajnast4r]

worth reading:

http://www.perque.org/P2Study.pdf

People here are not elitist but don't tolerate nonsense. You need to be discerning about what you post here.

someone pay this man

Edited by ajnast4r, 07 March 2008 - 01:54 AM.

[Bghead8che]

http://doctorjames.w...od-supplements/

I found it interesting that single carrot has over 200 nutrients, while a multi-vitamin has 22 Vitamins and minerals.

-Brian

Edited by Bghead8che, 07 March 2008 - 05:02 AM.

[Bghead8che]

Bghead8che,

Here is a clinical study of bioavailability of vitamins and minerals from a multivitamin(Centrum)

http://www.jacn.org/...t/full/22/2/124

As you may already know, Centrum is a bottom of the barrel multivitamin. But even this elicited a plasma increase in vitamins but not minerals (possibly due to use of inferior mineral forms).

Hi Amara,

I definitely under estimated the amount of vitamins that are absorbed. Again, this was an opinion I formed based on what I had read to date. For me it boils down to safety of synthetics and the question as to wither or not isolated vitamins are truly a benefit to the body since nature is made up of hundreds of cofactors. I don't know if man was designed to absorb isolates. As has been proven a few vitamins are better off not absorbed in man-made forms. From what I have observed more and more companies seem to be moving away from isolates and more towards whole food.



The articles proves Centrum is absorbed by the body but I think we would all agree that is not a good thing, as you pointed out.



Thanks for the article.



-Brian

[niner]

http://doctorjames.w...od-supplements/

I found it interesting that single carrot has over 200 nutrients, while a multi-vitamin has 22 Vitamins and minerals.

But how many of those 200 nutrients does your body need? And how many things does your body need that are not in the carrot. Multi-vitamins are not intended to replace food, but to augment it. The source that you cite is an opinion piece. It has a point of view and cites selectively to buttress that viewpoint if it cites at all. You need to find articles that have what Wikipedia would call a "Neutral Point of View". Articles like that would examine both sides of the issue without favoring one or the other. The data should lead to a conclusion, which may or may not be the one you're looking for. Ideally you would be looking for the truth, and it would be exposed in this way.

[Bghead8che]

Bghead8che,

Here is a clinical study of bioavailability of vitamins and minerals from a multivitamin(Centrum)

http://www.jacn.org/...t/full/22/2/124

As you may already know, Centrum is a bottom of the barrel multivitamin. But even this elicited a plasma increase in vitamins but not minerals (possibly due to use of inferior mineral forms).


People here are not elitist but don't tolerate nonsense. You need to be discerning about what you post here.

I 100% agree that most people are here are not elitists, there a just a few. Personal attacks are simply unnecessary. Maybe I am unique but I would never personally attack someone over the topic of vitamins regardless of how much discretion, or the lack thereof, a poster used. Again, fully a personal opinion, but I have never felt it is my place to tell anyone how or what to post but if someone feels it is there job to evaulate posts I'll respect their position. I'm a little more of the "Welcome to the forum here is why I disagree" approach. Fortunately that seems to be the postition of most peope here.



I did honestly want to seek opinions and still do. If my first post was over-the-top I have no problem apologizing for that.

-Brian

[Bghead8che]

http://doctorjames.w...od-supplements/

I found it interesting that single carrot has over 200 nutrients, while a multi-vitamin has 22 Vitamins and minerals.

But how many of those 200 nutrients does your body need? And how many things does your body need that are not in the carrot. Multi-vitamins are not intended to replace food, but to augment it. The source that you cite is an opinion piece. It has a point of view and cites selectively to buttress that viewpoint if it cites at all. You need to find articles that have what Wikipedia would call a "Neutral Point of View". Articles like that would examine both sides of the issue without favoring one or the other. The data should lead to a conclusion, which may or may not be the one you're looking for. Ideally you would be looking for the truth, and it would be exposed in this way.

To answer you question if given the choice between the 200 nutrients or 22 isolates I would take the 200 (all of them):

http://www.standardp...efoodsL1770.pdf

[Bghead8che]

I don't have access to the complete text so I copied the quote as it was posted:

----------------------------

Regular U.S.P. Vitamin Fractions Are Dead devoid of enzymes and other co-worker components that make them functional as food or nutrients. “There are many unknown ‘activators’ present in natural foods. Man has not yet begun to identify them, let alone know what they are good for and how to duplicate them. Therefore, there is no man-made product that can give us all the factors, known and unknown, that are found in nature, in the quantities and proportions found therein.”* No one on earth knows the exact structure of food. There are at least 103,000 known phytonutrients. The tomato alone contains 10,000. Why would one isolated fraction of a tomato, ascorbic acid, be as beneficial as the whole tomato?

*Ref: Robert Irons, Natures Nutritional Bounty For Man’s Nutritional Deficiencies, Springreen, (Spring 1995) pg 2.

[krillin]

worth reading:

http://www.perque.org/P2Study.pdf

They only tested it against a placebo, but then go on to claim that it's superior to all other multis?

It does put one more nail in the coffin of zinc picolinate. It may be absorbed well, but it just ends up in the urine. (PMID: 3195986 and 4020489) 25 mg didn't budge zinc levels one bit. It was funny when they grouped 25 mg zinc (over twice the RDA!) with 100 mg magnesium and 50 mg calcium as dosages that couldn't be expected to make a difference.

If you read the actual paper, it turns out that they only had 14.6 mg of zinc in the supplement. The Perque propaganda piece says the analytical method could only detect 60% of the zinc. Yeah, right.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/55/1/1

Here's something funny I found on a site that peddles Perque's stuff.

Healthy urine is sunshine, bright yellow. We need as much PERQUE2 Life Guard as it takes to keep our urine a sunshine bright yellow.

That bright yellow is just excessive B2. These people remind me of the sellers of "parasite killing" pills that contain worm-like things. You have to take the pills until worms stop showing up in your poo i.e. forever.

[Bghead8che]

worth reading:

http://www.perque.org/P2Study.pdf

They only tested it against a placebo, but then go on to claim that it's superior to all other multis?

It does put one more nail in the coffin of zinc picolinate. It may be absorbed well, but it just ends up in the urine. (PMID: 3195986 and 4020489) 25 mg didn't budge zinc levels one bit. It was funny when they grouped 25 mg zinc (over twice the RDA!) with 100 mg magnesium and 50 mg calcium as dosages that couldn't be expected to make a difference.

If you read the actual paper, it turns out that they only had 14.6 mg of zinc in the supplement. The Perque propaganda piece says the analytical method could only detect 60% of the zinc. Yeah, right.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/55/1/1

Here's something funny I found on a site that peddles Perque's stuff.

Healthy urine is sunshine, bright yellow. We need as much PERQUE2 Life Guard as it takes to keep our urine a sunshine bright yellow.

That bright yellow is just excessive B2. These people remind me of the sellers of "parasite killing" pills that contain worm-like things. You have to take the pills until worms stop showing up in your poo i.e. forever.

They really stated bright yellow urine is a good thing? That must literally be a first anywhere.

Edited by Bghead8che, 08 March 2008 - 12:34 AM.

[niner]

http://doctorjames.w...od-supplements/

I found it interesting that single carrot has over 200 nutrients, while a multi-vitamin has 22 Vitamins and minerals.

But how many of those 200 nutrients does your body need? And how many things does your body need that are not in the carrot. Multi-vitamins are not intended to replace food, but to augment it. The source that you cite is an opinion piece. It has a point of view and cites selectively to buttress that viewpoint if it cites at all. You need to find articles that have what Wikipedia would call a "Neutral Point of View". Articles like that would examine both sides of the issue without favoring one or the other. The data should lead to a conclusion, which may or may not be the one you're looking for. Ideally you would be looking for the truth, and it would be exposed in this way.

To answer you question if given the choice between the 200 nutrients or 22 isolates I would take the 200 (all of them):

http://www.standardp...efoodsL1770.pdf

Again, how many of the 200 do you need? Not choose to take, but need to take. I looked at the list, and a lot of those are synthesized endogenously, so you don't need to supplement them. Some of the others made me wonder a bit: Aniline? Cadmium? Bromine? Fluorine? Do you have to wear a Hazmat suit when you take this stuff? Other things on the list: Fat? Fructose? (really, I'm not making this up) These would be a lot cheaper at McDonalds.

Anyway, I found the list of 200 "nutrients" interesting. It's entirely possible that there is something good for you in there. Also maybe something bad for you. The manufacturer thinks that it's good for you. The "healers" and other people of various levels of professional status who are the multi-level marketers of it will tell you it's good for you. This stuff is expensive; my crazy sister takes it. She doesn't accept the basic tenets of science, preferring to use her feelings to ascertain the truth of any given proposition. She swears by it, but then she also swears that she was captured by Satanists...

I'd like to see a test of this against either a placebo or a conventional multi in a population with an adequate diet, to see if any health markers are affected. I'd also like to see some toxicology on it.

[inmostleaf]

HA!

I like it aj. Perhaps I can use that the next time I'm teaching 3rd years. Proof or get the funk out!

There's plenty of "proof" that Synthetic vitamins "can" do more harm than good. Do a Google search for Sythetic Vitamins and Cancer, or toxicity, or lifespan, etc and you will easily find plenty of studies. It does make you think twice before ingesting coal tar and yeast by-products. "Synthetic Vitamin Isolates" brings up plenty of good reading also. Again, I am having trouble finding a study that shows that food or whole food extracts are harmful.

I admit I am confused as to the somewhat aggressive tone in this thread -- it could be an interesting subject to discuss. And some synthetic vitamins are dangerous in large doses (look at beta carotene, for instance). I wouldn't use a blanket statement that all synthetic vitamins are dangerous, as I don't believe that... not at normal dosing levels.

But regarding 'whole food supplements', is it even possible to take such supplements, while keeping doses relatively normal and without going bankrupt? A person probably would have to take multiple servings of a greens product + specialized food supplements, to get close to RDA levels of most vitamins. And that's not counting some vitamins that probably aren't in existing whole food supplements. So even though a whole food vitamin might be nice, it may be the equivalent of like 10 pills and cost $100/month. Or are there whole food vitamins available at a reasonable price? Only ones I've found are the yeast-based vitamins.

If it costs a fortune, one might as well just go to the grocery store and buy a bunch of vegetables, nuts and fruits, and forget about taking vitamins. Or do what most here seem to do: take a partial dose of a good multi and eat healthy.

That was succinct and informative and so is this. I probably shouldn't say this, but I feel compelled to add that there was absolutely NO reason for Zoolander and later Ajnas4tr make the insipid remarks they did. I guess they just don't fully understand inflection. I presume both of you won't know what that means (because you seem to spend so much of your time "helping" others make informed decisions on health & wellness) so I took the time to "help" you understand basic grammar.

[Bghead8che]

HA!

I like it aj. Perhaps I can use that the next time I'm teaching 3rd years. Proof or get the funk out!

There's plenty of "proof" that Synthetic vitamins "can" do more harm than good. Do a Google search for Sythetic Vitamins and Cancer, or toxicity, or lifespan, etc and you will easily find plenty of studies. It does make you think twice before ingesting coal tar and yeast by-products. "Synthetic Vitamin Isolates" brings up plenty of good reading also. Again, I am having trouble finding a study that shows that food or whole food extracts are harmful.

I admit I am confused as to the somewhat aggressive tone in this thread -- it could be an interesting subject to discuss. And some synthetic vitamins are dangerous in large doses (look at beta carotene, for instance). I wouldn't use a blanket statement that all synthetic vitamins are dangerous, as I don't believe that... not at normal dosing levels.

But regarding 'whole food supplements', is it even possible to take such supplements, while keeping doses relatively normal and without going bankrupt? A person probably would have to take multiple servings of a greens product + specialized food supplements, to get close to RDA levels of most vitamins. And that's not counting some vitamins that probably aren't in existing whole food supplements. So even though a whole food vitamin might be nice, it may be the equivalent of like 10 pills and cost $100/month. Or are there whole food vitamins available at a reasonable price? Only ones I've found are the yeast-based vitamins.

If it costs a fortune, one might as well just go to the grocery store and buy a bunch of vegetables, nuts and fruits, and forget about taking vitamins. Or do what most here seem to do: take a partial dose of a good multi and eat healthy.

That was succinct and informative and so is this. I probably shouldn't say this, but I feel compelled to add that there was absolutely NO reason for Zoolander and later Ajnas4tr make the insipid remarks they did. I guess they just don't fully understand inflection. I presume both of you won't know what that means (because you seem to spend so much of your time "helping" others make informed decisions on health & wellness) so I took the time to "help" you understand basic grammar.

I think the majority of posters here feel that the personal attacks and aggressive tone were way out of line. A few posters and PMs have indicated the same. Personally I've decided I enjoy this forum and it is an excellent learning place so I want to continue to discuss the merits of whole food supplementation vs synthetic. As I questioned in my first point I think a half and half approach may be best. My absorption statement appears to be wrong and I'm glad I learned.

I picked up some MegaFood Lifestyle Vitamins to try out this week. I think they are more synthetic than food though.

-Brian

[krillin]

That was succinct and informative and so is this. I probably shouldn't say this, but I feel compelled to add that there was absolutely NO reason for Zoolander and later Ajnas4tr make the insipid remarks they did. I guess they just don't fully understand inflection. I presume both of you won't know what that means (because you seem to spend so much of your time "helping" others make informed decisions on health & wellness) so I took the time to "help" you understand basic grammar.

They were quite gentle compared to the ridicule he would have received if he had presented those arguments in a grad school seminar.

That site you linked to is an unreliable source of advice: excessive preformed vitamin A, the discredited emphasis of beta-carotene and neglect of all the other carotenoids, alpha tocopherol without the others, excessive selenium, calcium carbonate ("Calcium Citrate is better absorbed, but only contains 11% calcium." So?), manganese at twice the upper limit, and utter neglect of vitamin D. It's like he's been living under a rock for the past 20 years.

[krillin]

I picked up some MegaFood Lifestyle Vitamins to try out this week.

That supplement is almost totally redundant if you have a good diet. The B vitamins are significant, but a B-complex would be way cheaper. What is 4 mg of carrot going to do for you? The point of a supplement is to get specific scientifically-studied chemicals in quantities that you can't get in your diet.

[ajnast4r]

I picked up some MegaFood Lifestyle Vitamins to try out this week. I think they are more synthetic than food though.

you realize these are the SAME synthetic isolates that are in every other vitamin supplement right?

they feed [unknown forms of] isolates to yeast, break down the yeast cell wall... and claim high bioavailability b/c the vitamins have become protein bound. ive seen only speculative evidence at best that this is true... and even those speculations are only a very small percentage higher than your standard isolate, which would be negated by the significantly lower potency of the 'whole food' vitamin.

either way that is FAR from how vitamins are found in nature...

Edited by ajnast4r, 08 March 2008 - 09:58 PM.

[senseix]

What do you guys think about going with a Whole Food type supplement, maybe to supplement your greens and a whole food supplement to supplement your fruits? Then take a multi vitamin? I'm not really talking cost at this point, lets say cost isn't the issue, what i'm wondering would that be more effective, than just taking a multiple alone and is it worth it to mix the 2 vs saying one is better than the other but maybe together it is better?

[Bghead8che]

I picked up some MegaFood Lifestyle Vitamins to try out this week.

That supplement is almost totally redundant if you have a good diet. The B vitamins are significant, but a B-complex would be way cheaper. What is 4 mg of carrot going to do for you? The point of a supplement is to get specific scientifically-studied chemicals in quantities that you can't get in your diet.

Hi Krillin,

I don't have a good diet right now and I am most likley missing some of the nutrients. When I get more time I'd like to do a more customized solution.

-Brian

[Bghead8che]

I picked up some MegaFood Lifestyle Vitamins to try out this week. I think they are more synthetic than food though.

you realize these are the SAME synthetic isolates that are in every other vitamin supplement right?

they feed [unknown forms of] isolates to yeast, break down the yeast cell wall... and claim high bioavailability b/c the vitamins have become protein bound. ive seen only speculative evidence at best that this is true... and even those speculations are only a very small percentage higher than your standard isolate, which would be negated by the significantly lower potency of the 'whole food' vitamin.

either way that is FAR from how vitamins are found in nature...

Yes, they are the same and far from nature. They use the same yeast fed isolates as New Chapter, Garden of Life, etc. I only picked up a bottle because they have a good reputation, I was in a hurry, the vitamins were balanced w/out mega doses, and I was curious to try them out to see if helped w/ my rather poor diet. Given the choice between isolates and yeast isolates I figured it can't hurt. I personally think they should be required to list exactly what the yeast had for dinner. So far the only benefit is that I don't have to turn on the light when peeing in the dark.

Don't read to much into my choice as I mentioned it more as a "BTW". The clerk did mention that New Chapter and MegaFood are selling very well due to the fact that customers think they are buying "food". MegaFood is particuly misleading IMHO.

Ideally I would like to find a multi that contains high quality synthetics backed by a decent amount of balance whole food concentrates. Any particular suggestions? Technically I can only fine 2-3 true whole food supplement companies.

Is it truely possible to put enough food in a capsule to truly make it a true multi? As first I thought you could but I have my doubts. Perhaps if you measured every food powder under the sun and put in the perfect amounts it might work. To get enough "natural" calcium you would have to take 10 pills alone!

-Brian

[Bghead8che]

<<They were quite gentle compared to the ridicule he would have received if he had presented those arguments in a grad school seminar.>>

This is not anywhere near a grade school seminar and as such no one should be ridiculed at any level. My comments were also not intended to be a seminar, they were opinions based on what I read and my interpretation. Everyone has the right to disagree, correct, or argue but ridicule is best left in grade school.

Obviously the initial posters stand by their statements and feel they were justified so I'm up for keeping the conversation on the discussion at hand.


The honest truth is I work for Centrum and I am the marketing lead for their new whole food supplement line. Details are not final but we are thinking 5 mg Broccoli (a balanced vitamin/mineral approach), 10 mg Krill Oil (for a balanced Omega-3 blend), and a potent blend of 135 grass juices grown organically on the shores of New York City harbor. The potent grass juice blend includes no-flush fluoride and trace amounts of pure human waste to establish good bacteria in your stomach and enhance immune function. Similar to yogurt and digestive health but w/ a little more kick to it! The final blow will be, pending FDA approval, marketing our supplement as a natural mood enhancer and anxiety formula as the organic grass juices from New York harbor contain verifiable amounts of Prozac and Valium byproduct. Having passed through previous individuals they contain all the necessary chaperones and cofactors necessary for true assimilation by the body, once again establishing our position as the leader in multi-vitamins. Again, nothing final, but we are thinking of a new slogan "Centrum, once passed, twice absorbed!"

Retail pricing and/or name suggestions for the new line?


-Brian

[ajnast4r]

Ideally I would like to find a multi that contains high quality synthetics backed by a decent amount of balance whole food concentrates. Any particular suggestions? Technically I can only fine 2-3 true whole food supplement companies.

LEF has a good amount of fruit/vegetable extracts in it... pure encapsulations makes one to.

Is it truely possible to put enough food in a capsule to truly make it a true multi?

no

[nameless]

Yes, they are the same and far from nature. They use the same yeast fed isolates as New Chapter, Garden of Life, etc. I only picked up a bottle because they have a good reputation, I was in a hurry, the vitamins were balanced w/out mega doses, and I was curious to try them out to see if helped w/ my rather poor diet. Given the choice between isolates and yeast isolates I figured it can't hurt. I personally think they should be required to list exactly what the yeast had for dinner. So far the only benefit is that I don't have to turn on the light when peeing in the dark.


Ideally I would like to find a multi that contains high quality synthetics backed by a decent amount of balance whole food concentrates. Any particular suggestions? Technically I can only fine 2-3 true whole food supplement companies.



-Brian

If you can ever find out exactly what vitamins the yeast-vitamin makers use, I'd be grateful (and imagine others here would be too), if you could post the results here. Best info I've gotten so far is from New Chapter, but the majority of their answers were in 'marketing speak'. Mostly about how they don't measure or differentiate types of vitamins, since theirs is the same as food -- they sorta sidestepped the issue of their 'sprinkling of USP vitamins' in the yeast.

Twinlab also makes a yeast based, food vitamin, but they didn't provide much info to me either.

For a multi with good quality synthetics, with some whole food concentrates, why not Orthocore? Or AOR's multi or mix + a greens product (Berry green, Perfect Food, etc)? Add some stuff like green tea, garlic, berry extracts, etc. and that's probably the closest you'll get.

[krillin]

<<They were quite gentle compared to the ridicule he would have received if he had presented those arguments in a grad school seminar.>>

This is not anywhere near a grade school seminar and as such no one should be ridiculed at any level. My comments were also not intended to be a seminar, they were opinions based on what I read and my interpretation. Everyone has the right to disagree, correct, or argue but ridicule is best left in grade school.

Obviously the initial posters stand by their statements and feel they were justified so I'm up for keeping the conversation on the discussion at hand.


The honest truth is I work for Centrum and I am the marketing lead for their new whole food supplement line. Details are not final but we are thinking 5 mg Broccoli (a balanced vitamin/mineral approach), 10 mg Krill Oil (for a balanced Omega-3 blend), and a potent blend of 135 grass juices grown organically on the shores of New York City harbor. The potent grass juice blend includes no-flush fluoride and trace amounts of pure human waste to establish good bacteria in your stomach and enhance immune function. Similar to yogurt and digestive health but w/ a little more kick to it! The final blow will be, pending FDA approval, marketing our supplement as a natural mood enhancer and anxiety formula as the organic grass juices from New York harbor contain verifiable amounts of Prozac and Valium byproduct. Having passed through previous individuals they contain all the necessary chaperones and cofactors necessary for true assimilation by the body, once again establishing our position as the leader in multi-vitamins. Again, nothing final, but we are thinking of a new slogan "Centrum, once passed, twice absorbed!"

Retail pricing and/or name suggestions for the new line?


-Brian

To clarify, when I wrote "grad school" I meant graduate school. Ridicule is a fact of life. Either get used to it or learn the science.

Is your last paragraph supposed to be a joke? Centrum is all marketing and no science, but that product description is a travesty of both science and marketing. "Pure human waste" is going to be a tough sell.

[Bghead8che]

<<They were quite gentle compared to the ridicule he would have received if he had presented those arguments in a grad school seminar.>>

This is not anywhere near a grade school seminar and as such no one should be ridiculed at any level. My comments were also not intended to be a seminar, they were opinions based on what I read and my interpretation. Everyone has the right to disagree, correct, or argue but ridicule is best left in grade school.

Obviously the initial posters stand by their statements and feel they were justified so I'm up for keeping the conversation on the discussion at hand.


The honest truth is I work for Centrum and I am the marketing lead for their new whole food supplement line. Details are not final but we are thinking 5 mg Broccoli (a balanced vitamin/mineral approach), 10 mg Krill Oil (for a balanced Omega-3 blend), and a potent blend of 135 grass juices grown organically on the shores of New York City harbor. The potent grass juice blend includes no-flush fluoride and trace amounts of pure human waste to establish good bacteria in your stomach and enhance immune function. Similar to yogurt and digestive health but w/ a little more kick to it! The final blow will be, pending FDA approval, marketing our supplement as a natural mood enhancer and anxiety formula as the organic grass juices from New York harbor contain verifiable amounts of Prozac and Valium byproduct. Having passed through previous individuals they contain all the necessary chaperones and cofactors necessary for true assimilation by the body, once again establishing our position as the leader in multi-vitamins. Again, nothing final, but we are thinking of a new slogan "Centrum, once passed, twice absorbed!"

Retail pricing and/or name suggestions for the new line?


-Brian

To clarify, when I wrote "grad school" I meant graduate school. Ridicule is a fact of life. Either get used to it or learn the science.

Is your last paragraph supposed to be a joke? Centrum is all marketing and no science, but that product description is a travesty of both science and marketing. "Pure human waste" is going to be a tough sell.

Yeah, just playing around. I was accused of marketing earlier so I was just making light of the fact and how ridiculiously easy it is to sell something made of complete garbage.

-Brian

[Bghead8che]

Here is one of my favorites that I took for 4 months a while back. The ingredients are top notch for the most part and there is plenty of whole food AND vitamins/minerals. The product can be a meal replacement or used as a supplement. I talked to the owner once (and read his book) and his company goes through great lengths to make sure the ingredients are balanced, organically grown and properly processed. Also, many powders are highly glycemic while this one is not.

I felt great on the product. The stuff does taste awfull though! I hated taking it daily but I liked the results. An ORAC value of 11K it not half bad either. If you were to buy all the ingredients off the shelf you would easily be looking at $200.00 a container. If you are interested in good all-in-one I think they offer a decent solution.

http://www.livingfuel.com/LFP_01.htm

-Brian

Edited by Bghead8che, 10 March 2008 - 03:51 AM.

[david ellis]

Here is one of my favorites that I took for 4 months a while back. The ingredients are top notch for the most part and there is plenty of whole food AND vitamins/minerals. The product can be a meal replacement or used as a supplement. I talked to the owner once (and read his book) and his company goes through great lengths to make sure the ingredients are balanced, organically grown and properly processed. Also, many powders are highly glycemic while this one is not.

I felt great on the product. The stuff does taste awfull though! I hated taking it daily but I liked the results. An ORAC value of 11K it not half bad either. If you were to buy all the ingredients off the shelf you would easily be looking at $200.00 a container. If you are interested in good all-in-one I think they offer a decent solution.

http://www.livingfuel.com/LFP_01.htm

-Brian

SPAM

[ajnast4r]

SPAM

lol .. not spam. you cant jump into a convo 30 posts deep and call spam on a guys whos been actively participating!