69 replies to this topic

[Ben Simon]

Why would you want to live in the past? I didn't get you very well...

Just seems like one way a person might "transcend time", by at least transcending our subjective experience of it. The only other way I can think of so doing would be to genuinely thwart the laws of physics, or somehow enter into a continuous time loop, so subjectively you would live forever, while objectively your existence would occupy only the length of the loop itself, which could be a few minutes... or an hour... or a million years.. but which would be by necessity finite.

My point was that time may not be the problem, but rather the way in which we experience it. Changing the way we experience time (though very difficult) seems to intuitively be a far easier task than changing the properties of time and physics itself.

Edited by ben, 06 May 2008 - 03:26 PM.

[forever freedom]

I understand you. But i didn't know which to check, because i think that aging will be cured in my lifetime (i assume to have 100 more years ahead considering i live to 120. but of course shit can happen). If aging gets cured in my lifetime then there's no limit to what amount of time i can live. And i want to live for as long as possible. So i could only check "i will transcend time", although a better option would be "i will live for more than 120 years and i want to transcend time".

You know what I want to do man? I want to live in my own past. Assuming the information all still exists in my brain somewhere, and we could tap into it, I would be very up for just reliving past experiences when I felt like it... like running a tape. That would be boss. Obviously the tyranny of the present moment as predominant in our consciousness has its role in our survival... but given that experiencing moments is just electrical information buzzing around, couldn't we replicate past experience. I mean, my computer can run the same programme over and over... Why can't the brain? I got some stuff to revisit circa 2003.

I am convinced we must do this. Hurry up Kurzweil. Lazybones.

Why would you want to live in the past? I didn't get you very well...

So when do you think ultimate escape velocity will be reached? 20 years?50 years? 70 years??

Honestly, i have no idea. I hope and expect we reach it in some 60 years or something, but so many things can go wrong or don't fulfill the expectations...

[John_Ventureville]

vyntager wrote:
I expect to survive to about 75-80 biological human

But I could expect to survive to about (but just *about*) 30-200 as a biological human and having tempered with my biology (yes, something could go wrong).

Other than that all bets are off, if I make it to the singularity, either by being alive by then or cryonically suspended, that doesn't mean I'll survive; maybe the being I'd be would be too different to be "myself", or I could simply not be able to adapt to my new environment. But if everything goes well, till there's no more free energy (reversible computing ?).
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sam988 wrote:
I also got kind of surprised with the answers. But i think that most here just marked "120" years to sound reasonable... deep down they think that they'll live longer. And after all, if they are proven wrong, all the better; while raising expectations and getting disappointed would not be nice.
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There are a lot of different ways you could look at this question. I come from a long line of ancestors who tend to live a long time in relatively good health. But I could still get a terminal disease or get killed in a car accident tomorrow. And that is why cryonics is so important as the ultimate safety net (even for those in their teens and twenties who think they have it made, unlike those two or three decades older). The key point here is to make it to the "post-Singularity" world where indefinite lifespan and back-up technology is an inexpensive and very available medical resource. I admit that I have my doubts about cryonics and would prefer to simply live long enough to see the "golden age" we are hoping to experience.

Sometimes for fun and inspiration I read over my Transhuman Space roleplaying game books (a SF rpg set in the year 2100). Some of the characters are our contemporaries (they are pushing 140) and I find that very cool..

John Grigg

[garthclarkdr]

Under the category "Under which form do you expect to live the longest" one of the choices - and mine - is "my current organic body with organic transplants." I notice the complete rejection of the possibility by several posts, however my definition of organic transplant would include my own autologous grown to order stem cell organs (currently not an option but they should be when I would need them - theoretically around 2030-2050). Perhaps they too would like this option if they realized that organ transplants need not be from a partially matched donor as is the current state.

[forever freedom]

Under the category "Under which form do you expect to live the longest" one of the choices - and mine - is "my current organic body with organic transplants." I notice the complete rejection of the possibility by several posts, however my definition of organic transplant would include my own autologous grown to order stem cell organs (currently not an option but they should be when I would need them - theoretically around 2030-2050). Perhaps they too would like this option if they realized that organ transplants need not be from a partially matched donor as is the current state.

I think this rejection comes mostly from the fact that just a body with organic transplants is very fragile and may die easily in an accident. Other options give more security for living for the longest time.

[Anon Zytose]

For me, I see a few existential hurdles over which I must jump to survive.

One would be the state of being consumed by my own anxiety levels, but I've decided long ago that suicied would be the most idiotic action possible, and I've never heard of anyone being killed by insanity directly. (Emphasis on directly.)

Another is the continuity of consciousness dilemma as I plan to have myself transformed into a robot or sentient program or whatever, to prepare for the technological singularity.

The third is the possible end of the universe, be it through big rip or crunch or heat death. Can we prevent it? If not, can we flee to other universes forever?

A possible fourth would be sheer bad luck, or whatever you'd call it. But considering how careful I tend to be, it'd have to be extreme in my case.

I suppose a fifth hurdle I've already crossed is that of coming into existence in the first place. Perhaps the first step to living forever is living at all.

I don't know the odds in store of being defeated by any one of the future hurdles (hopefully zero each) or those of surpassing all of them (hopefully 100%). These are cases not dealt with by anyone in any recorded history for which we have access.

I'm not even going to guess on the case of a spiritual afterlife.

[Mewtwo]

Life expectancy will continue to rise during the next few decades, plus I am on 60% CR, and I believe that artificial organs will be perfected by then, so I chose 120+.

[ikaros]

My positive expectations are to live up to 150 which I consider the max biological limit for a human being. After that beating cancer becomes fairly difficult taken into account that spontaneous mutations are occuring in our genome all the time. That's the price of evolution. Without nanotechnological interventions fixing the mutations is rather hopeless. However I just cannot right now say when the big nanotechnological breakthrough or golden age will arrive, maybe in the beginning of 22. century.

[Opelousas Cajun]

I only want to live as long as a quality life permits and that means I don't want to be bedridden or dependant on someone to wipe my hiney. I don't want to be shuffled off to a Nursing Home (Assisted Living, etc. call them what you want) and live my life there until I pass away... that's NOT living and I hope to the Heavens I never find reason to 'stop' my life. My living will fully authorizes the 'pull the plug' feature if the future is questionable...
This is not a death wish, just a wish to live a quality life style...

[TianZi]

This is a tuff question, but i believe that if i don't die of old age there's definitely no way of me knowing when i will, so i would have to choose between either 80-120 (hell there's no way i'll die before that) or the option "Eternity - I will transcend time". So i chose the second option, "Eternity".


I think that when our civilization hits a certain technological threshold, probably everyone in it will become truly (not just biologically) immortal and only die if they want. When we will hit this threshold is unknown. Let's suppose we hit it in a million years; if we find a cure for aging in this century, all that we would have to do would be to survive for one million years, and since the more technologically advanced we are, the lower the chances of we dying, and since we are constantly and rapidly advancing our technology, it wouldn't be that unimaginable to really believe that one alive today could live forever.

I think you have confused reversing aging with immortality. They aren't the same. Even if the negative effects of aging can be reversed, a catastrophic accident, disaster, or war will end your life. Another person murdering you will end your life.

[RLvB]

I expect a total of 80-100 years until cryonic suspension. After that, I think speculation is pretty pointless.
I'm a 19-year-old male with Marfan's Syndrome.

Edited by RLvB, 24 July 2008 - 11:12 AM.

[VictorBjoerk]

I expect a total of 80-100 years until cryonic suspension. After that, I think speculation is pretty pointless.
I'm a 19-year-old male with Marfan's Syndrome.

Does marfans syndrome affect your lifespan if no aorta problems occur?

[RLvB]

I'm not sure. I think Wikipedia used to say that the life expectancy for people with Marfan's is nearly that of people without, but that information seems to have been removed; now it just says life expectancy has increased significantly over the last few decades.

[Dmitri]

Probably 50-60s. No more than 80, however.

I'd never have a transplant, so that might lower my lifespan a bit, but I'd rather be dead than have someone else's organs in me. I'd rather die in my late 50s to early 60s, past my prime, but still able to go out and do physical activities. I want to 'go hunting' and never come back before I'm a feeble old man. so 50s-60s sounds appropriate.

Organs in the near future are likely to be cloned, so you’d be getting your own cloned organs not someone else’s.

[Dmitri]

I expect 80-120 for time of death, but the others were all hopes.

Even if we were to have stem cell therapy, cloned tissue and organs, you’d still expect to live no more than 120 years? These types of technologies are moving quickly we’ll likely have them in 20-30 years (10 years according to a scientist in the Barbara Walters special “Live to be 150 Years”).

[Luna]

I expect 80-120 for time of death, but the others were all hopes.

Even if we were to have stem cell therapy, cloned tissue and organs, you’d still expect to live no more than 120 years? These types of technologies are moving quickly we’ll likely have them in 20-30 years (10 years according to a scientist in the Barbara Walters special “Live to be 150 Years”).

Will we?
Can you really expect those technologies come within 20 years?
When do you predict will we start regularly transplant cloned organ to anyone and not just a rich person?
When will we be able to make scars go away with Stem Cells?
Will we be able to regenerate our hearts, livers and brains to full function and health 20-30 years from now to just about anyone who wishes to?

People say 25 years for about 10 years now, somehow the timeline is still 25 and not 25-10.

You see, it is quite hard to really believe all those great technologies will come here even in 50 years of time while you see no progress and only news which seem to repeat themselves (2002, scientists regrow teeth with ultrasound, 2006, scientists regrow teeth with ultra sound, 2008 the headline returns).

So we can clone human organs (scientists cloned and transplanted a full liver), regrow teeth, fingertips, heart muscles, brain cells.
But somehow we just seem to re-discover our ability to do so over and over without putting it into use.

So yes, it probably has to do with the mechanics and complexity of doing it out of a very carefully chosen experiment group and with normal funding.
But when will we really, stop repeating the news and get to it?
What is really holding things up, the news never say.

[Dmitri]

I expect 80-120 for time of death, but the others were all hopes.

Even if we were to have stem cell therapy, cloned tissue and organs, you'd still expect to live no more than 120 years? These types of technologies are moving quickly we'll likely have them in 20-30 years (10 years according to a scientist in the Barbara Walters special "Live to be 150 Years").

Will we?
Can you really expect those technologies come within 20 years?
When do you predict will we start regularly transplant cloned organ to anyone and not just a rich person?
When will we be able to make scars go away with Stem Cells?
Will we be able to regenerate our hearts, livers and brains to full function and health 20-30 years from now to just about anyone who wishes to?

People say 25 years for about 10 years now, somehow the timeline is still 25 and not 25-10.

You see, it is quite hard to really believe all those great technologies will come here even in 50 years of time while you see no progress and only news which seem to repeat themselves (2002, scientists regrow teeth with ultrasound, 2006, scientists regrow teeth with ultra sound, 2008 the headline returns).

So we can clone human organs (scientists cloned and transplanted a full liver), regrow teeth, fingertips, heart muscles, brain cells.
But somehow we just seem to re-discover our ability to do so over and over without putting it into use.

So yes, it probably has to do with the mechanics and complexity of doing it out of a very carefully chosen experiment group and with normal funding.
But when will we really, stop repeating the news and get to it?
What is really holding things up, the news never say.

They're being held back by the government who thinks stem cells are immoral. As far as I know scientists can only use the supply of stem cells they have now, they cannot create new lines. Although, support for natural stem cells (such as cord blood ,etc) is growing, but I don’t know if they’re as effective as embryonic stem cells.

[Luna]

There is more than just the US, as there is more than just stem cells therapies which are being reported for breakthroughs (and the same breakthroughs too) for over 10 years now.

[Nova]

If will learn to get rid from scars on the heart, which all time is reduced and extends, it will change nothing. It is impossible to restore scars there where there is a nervous fabric. Scars could be restored with the help nano robots which will influence an electric current cages. Nerves an electricity to influence it is impossible.

[brokenportal]

Upon further thinking about this topic it seems that expectation is inextricably tied up with hope.

[Heliotrope]

yeah tied to hope.

[Korimyr the Rat]

As a strictly biological human, I expect to see between 80-120 years, or possibly as many as 130; unfortunately, I'll probably be stuck at the lower end of that range.

I may be interested in living longer, but I'm not in good shape for that. I am poor, and I have no health insurance. I have an autoimmune disorder and a family history of other autoimmune disorders. I live on instant breakfast mixes and protein supplements when I can't afford fast food. My brain is convinced that I live in a war zone and continually instructs my body to flood itself with cortisol and adrenaline. I take insane risks, pick fights, and get injured on a regular basis.

On the other hand, I do exercise regularly and I practice yoga and qigong. I keep my mind active. I eat a lot of vegetables, even if I can only afford to eat them out of cans. I eat fish and nuts whenever I can get them, and take fish oils by the handful. (Couple studies show they help with mood disorders and nerve damage.) And when the technology exists for meaningful augmentation, I have no compunction against begging, borrowing, or stealing anything I need to get them.

If things pan out and I have access to better food and better medical technology, and I can fix my rampaging brain chemistry, I can expect to see the upper end of that range. Then, every useful anti-aging technology or treatment can add to the top end, not to mention the benefits from my spiritual practices. Assuming that stuffing my skull with electronics and synthetic brainmeat doesn't shorten my lifespan, augmentation and replacement of malfunctioning body systems should add decades if not centuries to my prognosis.

And I do still hold out the hope of achieving immorbidity through a combination of physical and spiritual development and the application of medical technology.

[brokenportal]

How do you see SENS and Longevity Escape Velocity panning out?

[Natascha]

I expect around 100. I HOPE around 10,000 though. C'mon c'mon progress!

[brokenportal]

I expect around 100. I HOPE around 10,000 though. C'mon c'mon progress!

We can directly help that progress, we can lend more substance to that expectation, by joining the 72 team project.

We can expect how long we expect to live to increase in direct proportion to the amount of work we are willing to put into this. Anything we do will also help inspire more, so its a win win situation. Nothing is quite as easy or vital as joining something like that 72 team, so join today.

Comment on it, comment, for the love of life comment, this is the second biggest life extension organizations in the world and its being over run by supplements and off topic convo. Life extension pioneers come here and leave when they see that. We can change that easily today. Join the 72 team project.

Can we expect to live to 10,000? Yes we can!

[fatboy]

As long as I can.

[erzebet]

considering my health, my junk food "addiction" and how nomad my lifestyle is i think i'm lucky if i pass over 40, but i do not get that anxious on that, every day i think "i survived another day" not that "another day is gone"

[forever freedom]

considering my health, my junk food "addiction" and how nomad my lifestyle is i think i'm lucky if i pass over 40, but i do not get that anxious on that, every day i think "i survived another day" not that "another day is gone"

well at least you'll die happy.

[valkyrie_ice]

I expect to live forever. Reality might have other plans, but I certainly plan to fight them kicking and screaming all the way.

And I couldn't vote for the same reason given by another person, your list is too confining.

I expect to live in a completely engineered, yet still organic body with full organic parts. Being able to self repair when damaged using commonly available chemical elements seems to me to be an eminently sensible idea. Why use metals that are in short supply if an organic, self repairing self renewing material is in abundant supply? Properly made, an organic form using diamonoid structures interspersed through optimized organic cellular structure could produce an organic body with all the capabilities of any cyborg.

Yet this body would only be part of me. An organic interface with the universe of three dimensions. Equally a part of me will be the virtual me, the me that exists equally in my body and in cyberspace, exploring the electronic world as freely as I do the external universe. Both will be ME, and even if I end up having hundreds of virtual me's and hundreds of organic me's, we will still be "ME".

I think in the end we will all become individual collective organisms. A hive mind for every single individual who achieves immortality and the singularity. Not a mass mind of integrated humanity, just separate individual selves controlling unlimited numbers of simultaneous selves.

[harris13.3]

In my opinion, the chances of survival can be greatly extended by distributing one's intelligence across a network of separate but interconnected "selves" occupying a wide range. This would lessen the chance of total, sudden annihilation from accidental or intentional means but increase the frequency of smaller, localized losses to the overall system. It's a trade-off that some people might be willing to accept.

In response to the OP, I expect to live another 80 or so years. After all, I'm a healthy 17 year old who eats well and doesn't smoke. I'm also thinking about CR but I have my doubts. Obviously this could be greatly extended if cryonics turns out to be reversible.

Edited by Condraz23, 30 November 2009 - 12:50 PM.