30 replies to this topic

[xEva]

Hi. Don't mean to ruff any feathers, but have any of you heard of bigu, a qigong technique for going without food for long periods of time? It sounds utterly false at first, but wait..

In June 2000 there was a bigu conference in penn state univ. attended by a few hundred people, many in this peculiar state, most held advanced degrees in sciences. There was another conference in 2003 - can't find info on it now. The attendees - most in bigu - were required to submit a paper with a hypothesis how they thought the process worked.

here is press release from 2000:
http://www.majon.com...txt<br /><br />There are a few papers online:

Homeostasis Is Maintained in Yan Xin Life Science Technology-Optimized Caloric Restriction
http://www.yanxinqig...papers/Bigu.pdf

Studies on the Fundamental Theory of Bigu (Food Abstinence)—Preliminary Experimental Observations of Cellular Bigu
http://bst.sagepub.c...stract/22/5/392

There are few other abstracts on the subject on sagepub site.

I'm sure you've heard before of breatharians and sun gazers, etc and not believed them, but it is true, even though the numbers of people who can achieve such state outside qigong are usually exaggerated. It appears young people in good health can spontaneously enter this state if they practice some form of meditation.

[Heliotrope]

Hi. Don't mean to ruff any feathers, but have any of you heard of bigu, a qigong technique for going without food for long periods of time? [...] It appears young people in good health can spontaneously enter this state if they practice some form of meditation.

Not only heard of it, but i've "seen" it when i was in china. anecdotal evidence. More of a friend of a friend of friend, who did bigu. I don't understand how, but ppl really can go for very long periods without food and still not starve after weeks, months ...

a few famous ppl in ancient china did bigu. one king even practiced it for about quite a few days, around 30 to 100 days i think. only drinking water and eating "air" , sunlight. Sounds like a plant photosynthesizing, water, air, sunlight. The king quit the practice, denounced qigong later , saying it's not worth it
and enjoyed a king's lifestyle

Edited by Michael, 10 October 2009 - 06:08 PM.
Trim quotes

[Heliotrope]

i'm very interested in qigong though skeptial to an extent, and browsed through dozens of books. only one or two mentioned bigu ambiguously w/ little text on it. i don't remember any techniques on how it's done, but needs special qigong practices, "taking in qi to avoid food" somehow

but there is really no practical reason to use bigu. we have enough food. foods taste good. and i like to eat


curious about the scientific explanations though

Edited by HYP86, 18 April 2008 - 05:04 AM.

[xEva]

Well, this is a surprise. I spent a year on a Russian fasting board and did not see your post. I did not think anyone here was interested in such esoteric issues.

There is a practical reason to use bigu. It is considered the best method of maintaining health and extending lifespan.

Periodically I too return to this topic trying to understand it. I was very fortunate to meet some of those people involved in Penn state univ. bigu conference in 2000 and asked them many questions.

I think what goes on is that metabolism reaches homeostasis with super-effective recycling of proteins and whatnot (that's my "latest" attempt to understand it it keeps on changing). This does not explain how children in bigu grow and develop (but they do eat a bit of a liquid food, nothing solid though).

On the Russian fasting board I saw that people who are in good health and fast for self-improvement rather than to cure some chronic condition, often experience in a course of their fast periods of high energy (for days or a whole week) and even go to gym regularly, feel upbeat and sleep only 4h. That's actually a description of a bigu state, even though, of course, they never heard of it and don't even suspect that it's possible. This made me think that short-term bigu happens more often than people think, during these "easy fasts" (as opposed to a normal fast with all the symptoms of starvation). Apparently, bigu can start spontaneously if you practice qigong and go on a fast: http://www.healingtaousa.com/bigu.html

Edited by Lex, 22 August 2009 - 06:23 AM.

[xEva]

Found couple of files from the Bigu Conference in 2000. The report has a picture of Hans-Peter Duerr, past director of the Max-Planck Institute of Theoretical Physics in Munich, giving the openning speach. Thought you may be impressed and get interested in this phenomenon.

 Bigu_conference_report.pdf   183.53KB   129 downloads
 BiGuProgram.pdf   1.52MB   136 downloads

Otherwise, you guys here don't have a clue, really, what human body is capable of and how it functions, when it is in optimal health. You don't know how to operate it yet here you're, hummer in hand, ready to fix it up.

Edited by Lex, 04 September 2009 - 09:24 AM.

[Hedrock]

Yes, I tried it.

It is impossible with a western life style. If you have to work and earn some money, forget it.

To start you must not eat
- grains
- potatoes
- any starch

Alkohol, meat and garlic / onions are also strictly forbidden.

Starch makes the tree worms in you powerful. Not good. To have bigu you have to kill the three worms.

When the three worms are dead you can stay without any food for the rest of your eternal life. You just have to eat sometimes very small amounts of foods (never grains or starch!!!).

Maybe one egg in one month would be enough. But you actually don't need it.

If you wont eat anything you would be invisible for the others. Just eat something to stay visible for others.

The rest is chi. You will just live from chi.

Edited by Hedrock, 16 September 2009 - 11:26 AM.

[xEva]

Yes, I tried it.

It is impossible with a western life style. If you have to work and earn some money, forget it.

I've known about a dozen of people in bigu and they all were very successful modern people. You may want to look at the BiguConferenceReport PDF above. Most have PhD degrees.

There was one guy who found it impossible, because lunches and dinners with clients was an important part of his business. He tried several approaches: explaining that he does not eat and pretending eating - neither worked. Then he tried simply eating at those lunches and dinners and found it hard on his health. So he had to come out of the state.

To start you must not eat
- grains
- potatoes
- any starch

Alkohol, meat and garlic / onions are also strictly forbidden.

Yeah, bigu means no grains in old Chinese. Recently I've come to realize that it can be translated into modern English as low carb or no carb, which is a ketogenic diet. I understand that's the base diet you maintain before you stop eating altogether.

Starch makes the tree worms in you powerful. Not good. To have bigu you have to kill the three worms.

When the three worms are dead you can stay without any food for the rest of your eternal life. You just have to eat sometimes very small amounts of foods (never grains or starch!!!).

I believe the three worms you refer to are the metaphors from Buddhism? The people in bigu that I knew were mostly atheists. And yes, some of them could eat a very small amount of food sometimes while in bigu.

If you wont eat anything you would be invisible for the others. Just eat something to stay visible for others.

Really? I've never heard about this invisibility problem for people in bigu.

The rest is chi. You will just live from chi.

It's hard to understand how bigu is possible and even what qi (chi) is.

[castrensis]

I have to admit that you've piqued my interest, but a cursory google of "Bigu" turned up nothing very useful as to initiating & maintaining a state of Bigu. Out of curiosity I'd be interested in experimenting with the technique. Any recommended resources?

[JLL]

When the three worms are dead you can stay without any food for the rest of your eternal life. You just have to eat sometimes very small amounts of foods (never grains or starch!!!).

Makes sense.

[xEva]

I have to admit that you've piqued my interest, but a cursory google of "Bigu" turned up nothing very useful as to initiating & maintaining a state of Bigu. Out of curiosity I'd be interested in experimenting with the technique. Any recommended resources?

It's true, it used to be a secret Chinese qigong technique or a very rare western phenomenon, almost always associated with religion. There are many methods but they all agree that bigu cannot be the goal in itself. Rather it is a "side effect" of a mind-body practice. From what I've seen, what unites the people in bigu is intense involvement in something bigger than themselves. Either it's science - yes, modern science - or deep religious experience, or something else. Then not having to worry about eating frees a lot of time and energy for the main reason one actually lives.

I can't advise you on a specific practice or even where to find instruction. All people involved in that conference got into the state via induction by a great qigong master, even though most, if not all, were also practicing his qigong for a while at least at some point in time. That qigong master has made himself unavailable since then (due to complex political reasons in China - I know it sounds mysterious but it's a long story and I don't want to get into it).

IMO simply doing qigong or advanced yoga, or some other mind-body practice, while fasting regularly, will give you a chance to get into the state at least for a while (could be weeks to months at a stretch). The important thing to remember is you don't feel hungry while in bigu. You have good energy and sleep little. If you feel hungry, it means you're no longer in bigu and have to start eating. I knew a few who tried to force themselves into the state and got pretty sick and malnourished as a result.

One modern western method calls for a 7day dry fast while taking 30min soaks in a bathtub twice daily. Apparently, one can absorb energy through skin and the training starts by absorbing water while being severely dehydrated. A similar idea is expressed in several qigong techniques that call for "breathing qi through the pores of the skin". Another common qigong technique is Fuqi Qigong – the ingesting of qi through the mouth by visualization. "Ingest 12+ mouthful of Qi in the morning, and in the evening every day while continuing intensive Qigong practice" (intensive Qigong practice = at least 5h a day).

If you look at the BiguProgram PDF above, there is a paper that proposes "absorption of gamma radiation as a possible mechanism for bigu" (page 6). ? I don't know.

IMO you gotta start with qigong - any form will do, the important thing is that you find it appealing - and start practicing. And then... You know they say when a student is ready the teacher will appear

Edited by Lexx, 17 September 2009 - 09:22 AM.

[castrensis]

So, in other words, it's an initiatic phenomenon that's not reproducible without a guru. I was under the impression that there was a specific program to induce the optimized calorie restricted state, thereby making it possible to evaluate it empirically. Thanks for the info.

[Hedrock]

Really? I've never heard about this invisibility problem for people in bigu.

The problem happens later in process.

In the beginning bigu means to have a shiny skin. Your aura shines brigther and brighter from the pure energy. (Is Matt an immortal taoist?)

Later you might want to transform your body totally to be a ghost.

Either by not eating. This is the slower method, it needs some time to get rid of this useless matter.

Or some taoists burned the rest-of-the-body by wearing waxed clothes. When they were burned, in some cases not much rests were found. Just some very small ashes. This is because they had already transformed their body (hope so).

I love these old legends.

[xEva]

So, in other words, it's an initiatic phenomenon that's not reproducible without a guru. I was under the impression that there was a specific program to induce the optimized calorie restricted state, thereby making it possible to evaluate it empirically. Thanks for the info.

If you look you will find qigong masters who may teach it (don't be afraid to google and pls do not expect me to provide you with every link you may need ) There are many methods and there are many spontaneous cases. In the spontaneous cases people fasted frequently, because they were religious and their religions required it, or, if they were agnostic, they fasted to improve their health and discipline in addition to doing yoga, qigong or some other form of meditation. IMO, that's a core method.

[xEva]

I love these old legends.

It's counterproductive to bring up old Doist legends on a board where the majority of members never even heard of qigong

Edited by Lexx, 19 September 2009 - 09:41 PM.

[kismet]

I have to admit that you've piqued my interest, but a cursory google of "Bigu" turned up nothing very useful as to initiating & maintaining a state of Bigu. Out of curiosity I'd be interested in experimenting with the technique. Any recommended resources?

...and I think this does not belong here. Magical thinking and legends should go into the religious or free speech forum. 

Edited by kismet, 19 September 2009 - 10:40 PM.

[xEva]

Hey kismet, for once we agree We don't want to hear legends here, only the real stuff, and bigu is real.

[castrensis]

I have to admit that you've piqued my interest, but a cursory google of "Bigu" turned up nothing very useful as to initiating & maintaining a state of Bigu. Out of curiosity I'd be interested in experimenting with the technique. Any recommended resources?

...and I think this does not belong here. Magical thinking and legends should go into the religious or free speech forum.

Agreed. Clearly, I misunderstood what Bigu entailed. I was under the impression it was a technique to induce an optimized calorie restricted state rather than esotericism & initiatic mysteries.

[Hedrock]

Hey kismet, for once we agree We don't want to hear legends here, only the real stuff, and bigu is real.

So let me say:

If you do't believe in religion or legends, there is no Bigu in "reality".

There is absolutely no scientific explanation for not eating 20 years or more. The cases are known but can't be explained.

In a scientific way all human energy comes from chemical transformation. No food - no energy!

How can you get energy from "nothing"?

If you don't care about the things behind Bigu, you will never reach Bigu or understand it. The cosmic energy is a very esoteric subject.

[JLL]

I don't understand this division between "scientific explanation" and "explanation". What is the non-scientific explanation for Bigu? Cosmic energy? Is this energy something that can't be measured or why is it un-scientific in nature?

[Hedrock]

I don't understand this division between "scientific explanation" and "explanation". What is the non-scientific explanation for Bigu? Cosmic energy? Is this energy something that can't be measured or why is it un-scientific in nature?

Well, I'm glad you ask this.

There are two explanations in daoism for this phenomenon:

1. explanation: Filtering the chi(=qi) from the morning air to get energy. There are several practices: qi gong, tai chi, swallowing air...

--> But scientific research has not found chi in the air. Maybe chi does not exist. Some people say chi is too subtle to be found by science.

2. explanation: The "cosmic" explanation: Creating a state in your body of yin/yang which is optimal counterbalanced. yin + yang = tao. The tao is a perfect state from before the beginning of the world and does not need any food.

--> Science does neither know yin and yang, nor does it know the tao.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't believe in Bigu. I tried it without success. To my personal opinion the daoists have found some benefits from fasting, but life cannot exist without food at all.

Even if any subtle state of Bigu would theoretically exist, it wouldn't be possible to realise it in our modern life. Our air is poisened, we are not in harmony with the nature. We can protect against poisons of our environment better when we eat.

You can stay two months without food, but 10 years are impossible.

I do not recommend fasting for long periods. It can ruin your health. Short fasting (a few days) can have some benefits.

[xEva]

Hedrock, I see you've tried qigong. This does not make you an expert. I appreciate you sharing your experience, but I don't appreciate your "three worms", "invisibility problem" nor your "explanations in daoism" - ?! You say you "don't believe in bigu". There is nothing to believe. It's not a religion. You obviously have not read Bigu Conference PDFs, for if you did, you'd see that these are normal, modern people in bigu, some quite long time, 5-7 years (in 2000), most live in NYC or LA and are doing fine. Read the program and see "pregnancy and bigu" and "childern and families in bigu". I don't know where you get your info - it does not match mine. Sorry.

[xEva]

I don't understand this division between "scientific explanation" and "explanation". What is the non-scientific explanation for Bigu? Cosmic energy? Is this energy something that can't be measured or why is it un-scientific in nature?

Back in 1999 I spoke to a guy who was in bigu for 3.5 years. He also happened to have a PhD in molecular biology from U of SanDiego. He told me honestly, nobody had a clue how bigu was possible, including himself. He said that after 3 years he had a chance to have an extensive blood panel done, and absolutely all the parameters were in optimal range, except WBC count, which was way below norm (no he did not suffer from impaired immunity).

Regarding qi, there are plenty of studies done. The fact that nobody knows what exactly it is does not mean that it does not exist, for its effects can be studied. But qi is not the topic of discussion here. You don't need to know about qi to have a spontaneous bigu experience.

The point of this thread was to let people know that such a phenomenon exists and happens more often than people suspect. If you fast frequently, a day may come when you find that it's been quite a few days already and you're still full of energy and don't feel like eating. Instead of getting worried that this can't be normal, hopefully you'll say, "Ah! maybe I'm in bigu? Well, let see how long I'll last in this state and what I can learn from it." That's all there is to it and I have nothing else to add.

[JLL]

If eating is unnecessary, how come people can starve to death?

[Hedrock]

Hedrock, I see you've tried qigong. This does not make you an expert. I appreciate you sharing your experience, but I don't appreciate your "three worms", "invisibility problem" nor your "explanations in daoism" - ?! You say you "don't believe in bigu". There is nothing to believe. It's not a religion. You obviously have not read Bigu Conference PDFs, for if you did, you'd see that these are normal, modern people in bigu, some quite long time, 5-7 years (in 2000), most live in NYC or LA and are doing fine. Read the program and see "pregnancy and bigu" and "childern and families in bigu". I don't know where you get your info - it does not match mine. Sorry.

Bigu exists maybe outside our reality. An undefined state called superposition by quantum physics.

It's a kind of Schrödingers cat.

If you don't see it or measure it, it might be possible.

But if you try to investigate by scientific methods, it doesn't exist.

It has never been proved. Believing in Bigu is like believing in god. You can never find any evidence for god. With Bigu it is the same problem.,

Thats what I mean when I say "I don't believe in Bigu"

Bigu is a kind of religion. You can believe in it or not.

[xEva]

Hedrock, I see you got your blinders on and chose to remain oblivious to the PDFs I keep on offering for you to read. Well, I can't make you. You tired bigu and you failed => it does not exist for you. This does not change the fact that bigu is real and has been observed. I don't see a point talking to you though, because your mind is made up and you already know all there is to know about it

[xEva]

If eating is unnecessary, how come people can starve to death?

This can be rephrased as "If swimming is for real, how come people drown?"

The main characteristic of bigu is that a person does not feel hungry. A starving person can't think of nothing but food.

Bigu is a special state. There is a metabolic difference between the onset of starvation and bigu. A person does not pass through ketoacidosis at the onset of bigu.

Speaking to people in bigu and reading about the experiences of sungazers, I saw a commonality in how they realized that they entered the state. Typically, it is at a mealtime, often facing their favorite dish, enjoying its look and aroma and yet realizing that they can't eat it. They cannot bring the fork/spoon to the mouth and at this point they typically remember others telling a very similar story how they in turn knew that they had entered the state. That's how it typically begins. Does not sound like starvation, does it?

[kismet]

Please, someone move this thread to a more appropriate section. Sungazing, seriously?

[xEva]

That's not the first time, dear kismet, that you demonstrate your intolerance of subjects of which you're proudly ignorant.

Sungazing is one of the many methods of getting into bigu state. If you can believe that bigu is a fact for hundreds of Americans, as Bigu Conference demonstrated, why is it so hard to believe that other methods can produce similar results?

[Michael]

[[Bigu] is impossible with a western life style. If you have to work and earn some money, forget it.

To start you must not eat
- grains
- potatoes
- any starch

Alkohol, meat and garlic / onions are also strictly forbidden.

Heh? Why is this impossible, or even a burden on working? There are armies of Atkins people out there who don't eat grains, potatoes, any starch, or alcohol; some of them are already vegetarian, and giving up meat isn't THAT big a deal. Giving up garlic and onions would be, um, weird, but hardly "impossible with a western life style."

-Michael

[demetria]

TWO YEARS AGO I WENT TO MASTER CHUNYI LIN IN MINNEAPOLIS FOR A TUMOR IN MY PELVIC REGION. I HAD SIX QIGONG HEALING SESSIONS AND AFTERWARDS
PRACTICED QIGONG EVERYDAY. MY TUMOR DISAPPEARED AND I CONTINUED TO PRACTICE QIGONG. AROUND A YEAR LATER I MADE SOME PROFOUND CHANGES IN MY LIFE.
I SPENT 3 MONTHS IN FLORIDA. I DISCONNECTED FROM ALL NEGATIVE PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN DRAINING ME. I STOPPPED USING MY COMPUTER. IN ADDITION,
I BEGAN THE PRACTICE OF SUNGAZING AND ADDED THE FIVE TIBETANS TO MY EXERCISE ROUTINE. WHEN THE BIGU OCCURED I DID NOT KNOW WHAT IT WAS.
I HAD HEARD OF THE BIGU BUT WAS TAUGHT THAT IT USUALLY HAPPENED AFTER SOME YEARS OF PRACTICING QIGONG AFTER ONE HAD EVOLVED TO A CERTAIN
EXTENT. THE BIGU IS NOT ABOUT BEING ABLE TO GO WITHOUT FOOD! THE BIGU IS MORE ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO EAT. WHEN I TRIED TO EAT EVEN THE SMALLEST
QUANTITY OF FOOD NO MATTER HOW HEALTHY, MY BODY SCREAMED IN PROTEST. THE DISCOMFORT WAS SEVERE TO WHERE I MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN TRYIING
TO EAT BRICKS. FEAR THAT I HAD DEVELOPED ANOTHER TUMOR, THIS TIME IN MY ABDOMEN TOOK OVER. HOWEVER, I WAS CONFUSED. HOW COULD I BE SICK AGAIN WHEN I LOOKED SO AMAZINGLY HEALTHY? MY AGING HAD DRASTICALLY BEEN REVERSED, I HAD MANY PERIODS OF TIME OF COMPLETE JOY AND ELATION. I LIVED COMPLETELY IN THE HERE AND NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. EVERYTIME I FORCED MYSELF TO EAT I COULD LITERALLY
FEEL THE CELLS IN MY BODY BEGIN TO DIE. AND YET OUT OF FEAR I FORCED MYSELF TO EAT!! I FOUND OUT LATER THAT THIS WAS THE ONSET OF THE BIGU
WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN TRIGGERED BY THE COMBINATION OF ALL DESCRIBED ABOVE.

A ALSO DISCOVERED THAT I MISSED OUT ON A GREAT CHANCE TO TRANSFORM ON MANY LEVELS. NEW ABILITIES BECOME POSSIBLE IN THE BIGU STATE.
I AM WRITING THIS PRIMARILY TO LET PEOPLE KNOW HOW FEAR AND IGNORANCE CAN HINDER GROWTH. TRUE GROWTH REQUIRES FAITH. MY EXPERIENCE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE CONDITIONING OF FEAR CAN DO. AANOREXICS DIE BECAUSE THEY FAST FOR THE WRONG REASONS. THIS IS THE SIGNAL THAT THESE MISERABLE
BEINGS SEND TO THEIR CELLS. THIS IS OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE DEATH URGE.

IF YOU FASTED 2 DIFFERENT PERSONS FOR 30 DAYS WHERE ONE PERSON KNOWS THE BENEFITS OF FASTING AND THE OTHER IS ALWAYS BEING TOLD HOW DANGEROUS FASTING IS WHAT DO YOU THE RESULTS FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL WOULD BE? ANOREXICS ARE WELL ACQUAINTED WITH THE DEATH URGE.

HAVING SAID THIS, I WILL ADD THAT THE BIGU IS SPONTANEOUS FASTING. IT IS NOT

A STATE OF FORCED STARVATION.
SO YES, THE BIGU IS POSSIBLE AND YES, APPARENTLY THERE ARE THINGS THE WILL TRIGGER IT.