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300 MG Trans-Resveratrol Making My Joints Hurt


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#61 kenj

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:27 PM

So, E.T. have you stopped all supplements for several weeks or anything you still take?

#62 E.T.

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 07:06 AM

So, E.T. have you stopped all supplements for several weeks or anything you still take?


When I stop taking all supplements, I start to feel a lot better, though the progression of joint-breakdown still continues, at a slower rate. But, since I have very bad ADD, I need to keep on taking a few supplements like phospatidylserine (LEF), a basic two-a-day multivitamin (LEF), and fish oil ("Doctor's Trust" brand). When I completely stop, I completely loose focus and mental energy at work, which would result in my layoff.

As soon as I can afford to, I will hire a joint specialist physician. I hired a general practitioner physician who took my money and provided no service in return, and I posted the blood test results in this thread.

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#63 E.T.

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 07:20 AM

Have you tried supplementing copper?

Stephen


Not as yet. Perhaps I should try.

#64 luv2increase

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:26 PM

I will hire a joint specialist physician.



They won't tell you anything you don't already know. All you will get from a joint specialist will be some scripted for a cox-2 inhibitor, anti-inflammatory (NSAIDS), and if your lucky of narcotic pain reliever.

#65 krillin

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 10:50 PM

As soon as I can afford to, I will hire a joint specialist physician. I hired a general practitioner physician who took my money and provided no service in return, and I posted the blood test results in this thread.

You should try to get a decent workup. A CBC/chem and sed rate doesn't tell you much at all. And get a copper test before considering supplementing it.

#66 Lufega

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 08:22 AM

If you are having joint/tendon/memory/attention issues maybe Pycnogenol may be a good supplement for you. It has been shown to be effective in ADD as well as in repairing collagen/elastin. Kill two with one stone??? I can't attest to it's effectiveness as I'm still waiting for my order. Amazon emailed me saying they were backordered.....damn you amazon!!

I also agree with previous posters. Stop everything you're doing and re-consider taking copper. Just get tested for you levels.

I am researching Mitral Valve prolapse and how to repair elastin in my body. So far, taking copper, which is needed by lysil oxidaze to form the crosslinks in elastin and collagen, has really helped me. I judged this by the reduction of symptoms due to MVP and by my reduced need for magnesium. Previously I was taking 1.2 grams magnesium to keep symptoms at bay, now I take less than 400 mg a day and have been at 0 mg for the last week....with no symptoms (I'm also taking 4 grams Taurine everyday and that could explain the decrease in nervousness and anxiety. Although, even while taking magnesium taurate, I had to take at least 400 mg every 4-5 hours to keep symptoms down, so I doubt taurine is having that big of an effect.) Anyways, I digress...

Your blood test also showed calcium levels to be high. This can be an indication of low magnesium status. Magnesium is also a cofactor for Hyaluronic acid formation. HA is present in all your tendons, ligaments, joints. A low magnesium status will mean less HA is formed. So you can benefit from taking both. Magnesium will also help with mental fogginess and concentration.

In the past, I used to suffer from mysterious joint pains. I've never taken Resveratrol. I ran into this post researching it. These pains went away when I began taking magnesium. I'm not sure of the mechanism but I suspect it was a form of osteoarthritis due to high calcium deposits. You show to be high in calcium already. I also took curcumin for sometime. While this alleviated some of the inflammation, it did not resolve it.

Later on, I started taking 15 mg zinc twice a day. Shortly after, I developed a bad case of plantar fascitis and my feet would hurt at the end of the day. I attributed this to lowered levels of copper by the action of zinc. When I stopped taking zinc, the pain went away. Notice, I suffer from a connective tissue disorder (mitral valve prolapse) of which low levels of copper is a suspect, so I was presumably low already. I plan to post of my findings soon.

Also, based on your blood test, You have high eosinophils which could indicated an autoimmune disorder, leukemia, parasitic infection or others.

You show low MCV and MCH which means you have anemia, probably due to low iron.

Low uric acid levels also point to some autoimmune problems and other.

Low alkaline phosphatase could be due to anemia, malnutrition, other.

Lasty, you stated that you've lost some weight and probably muscle mass. Low creatinine levels can attest to that.

Could you have ingested a parasite somewhere? Tapeworm? Did you have raw/uncooked fish around the time symptoms started?

What did your doctors conclude about your blood tests? Have you had a follow up one?

Hope this helps!

Edited by Lufega, 12 September 2008 - 08:51 AM.


#67 Declmem

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 01:43 AM

I'm afraid I don't have anything helpful to add, E.T., except another confirming report. I took resveratrol about a month ago until I started to experience severe and constant back pain. I'm 26. Taking the resveratrol out of my regimen solved it after a few weeks. Resuming the res for even a day caused the problems to return. I do still experience some mild back pain, but I'm doing some exercises to improve it.

Fortunately or unfortunately (since I can't take it any longer), the res also had some really astounding benefits. It was probably the best antidepressant I've ever taken, increased my libido significantly and I also lost weight. My metabolism increased to an extent that if I didn't eat every 2 hours I would get dizzy (not necessary a good thing, but something most people would consider an encouraging aspect of the substance). All of this goes away a few days after ceasing resveratrol, and returns when resumed.

This guy also had a similar experience: http://mindblog.deri...iment-with.html

I'm wondering how long you took the Res before you started noticing problems? If you already mentioned this, I apologize for missing it..

Please keep us updated on your experience, and good luck!

Edited by Declmem, 13 September 2008 - 01:47 AM.


#68 Lufega

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 03:00 AM

trans-Resveratrol, an extract of red wine, inhibits human eosinophil activation and degranulation.
Tan Y, Lim LH. 1Inflammation and Cancer Laboratory, Department of Physiology and NUS Immunology Program, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, Singapore, Singapore.

Background and purpose:trans-Resveratrol, a non-flavonoid polyphenol found abundantly in red wine possesses antiproliferative and anti-inflammatory activity in various inflammatory disease conditions. However, the effect of trans-resveratrol on eosinophil activation in relation to allergy has not been investigated.Experimental approach:Human eosinophils were isolated and purified from whole blood and incubated for 16 h with trans-resveratrol. Eosinophil chemotaxis, activation and degranulation, and apoptosis were investigated. The effect of trans-resveratrol on the inhibition of p38 and ERK1/2 activation was examined.Key results:Treatment of human eosinophils with trans-resveratrol at concentrations <100 muM for 16 h did not induce eosinophil apoptosis. Similar results were seen after 24 h and 48 h incubations. trans-Resveratrol (<100 muM) significantly inhibited eosinophil peroxidase release after activation with IL-5 (IC(50)=2.9+/-0.9 muM) or C5a (IC(50)=3.9+/-0.5 muM) after 5 min priming with cytochalasin B (CB). Similarly, the production of leukotriene C4 after stimulation with calcium ionophore, and eosinophil chemotaxis in response to eotaxin, as well as CD11b upregulation and CD62 L shedding was also significantly reduced by trans-resveratrol, at concentrations above 5 muM. All the activators induced p38 and ERK1/2 phosphorylation maximal at 2 min of activation. trans-Resveratrol potently inhibited p38 and ERK1/2 activation after calcium ionophore and CB and C5a activation.Conclusions and implications:trans-Resveratrol is effective at inhibiting human eosinophil activation and degranulation at concentrations <100 muM, while not inducing apoptosis. This potent anti-inflammatory activity of trans-resveratrol and possibly its metabolites on eosinophils may be worth investigating for the treatment of eosinophil-related allergic diseases.British Journal of Pharmacology advance online publication, 8 September 2008; doi:10.1038/bjp.2008.330.



Seems like your eosinophil count is not high because of Resveratrol.

#69 justink

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 08:53 PM

For those wanting to explore the copper chelation hypothesis, the correct blood test to order would be ceruloplasmin level rather than blood copper level. You can order this from different online blood testing companies. I remember this was discussed before on sci.life-extension. Although, zinc and carnosine are undoubtedly more potent in chelating copper than resveratrol. So, if people mega-dosing with zinc tend to not report such problems, it probably suggests something else, likely an autoimmune response to the resveratrol itself.

As a rough analogy, you see that with influenza. It's not the virus making you achy, it's the immune response.

Some people taking pro- and prebiotics have also reported tendonitis and mild joint pain on forums, likely because the increase in bacteria in the gut is overstimulating the immune system in sensitive people. Sometimes with these allergies to herbs liver enzymes will go up as well after activation of the immune system, but sometimes this is absent.

If people have joint inflammation and pain associated with an autoimmune response related to ingestion of an herb, discontinuation of the herb and perhaps temporary administration of steroids to control immune reponse for a couple weeks might be helpful.

Edited by justink, 25 September 2008 - 09:04 PM.


#70 zorba990

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:04 PM

I wonder if some of this can be from a die-off of weak cells.
One of the things that happened to me, when I first went to 500 and
then to 1000mg, is that I developed what seemed like a rash on my face.
Since I run outside I was worried that this was the knotweed part (even though I was taking 99%)
causing sun sensitivity. The 'rash' turned out to just be very rapidly peeling
skin. Areas that had received a blistering sunburn decades before. This passed but it took
nearly 3 months to completely stop peeling. Lots of lotion helped the redness go
away.

Anyway, I'm convinced this was rapid die off of weak cells. The skin looks fine now
and the condition has not returned. So if this is the case with the joints, then
increasing raw materials for joint building might ameliorate the issue.

#71 justink

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Posted 25 September 2008 - 09:11 PM

Seems like your eosinophil count is not high because of Resveratrol.


His blood work would be considered by most doctors to be normal.

Edited by justink, 25 September 2008 - 09:17 PM.


#72 E.T.

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 06:42 AM

I had another blood test done a week ago: this time, they took a urine sample to measure my cortisol levels to see if the DHEA I was taking resulted adrenal failure, causing low cortisol and thus degeneration of joints and other tissue. I am still waiting for the results.

I am now feeling very weak all the time as well, have no energy, mental weakness. I feel like I'm dying. I am incapable of living like this. If no solution is found soon, I'll have to terminate myself. Someone told me that some States have legalized assisted termination. I'll have to research that.

I think it would be cool if we were living in a Matrix and I just wake up in other reality. I can understand the mass appeal for religion.

#73 Stokestack

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 10:41 PM

Unfortunately, my experience parallels ET's exactly. Serious and debilitating tendonitis and snapping and popping body-wide, with no apparent improvement since stopping the supplements (Bioforte 500) months ago. Yesterday I tried playing basketball, and added a completely new site of acute inflammation above my knee. I will now have to go for yet another doctor visit and see if there's a tear.

While I'm not about to entertain ET's level of drama, I can say that this is a severe and depressing degradation of my life. I have always planned to maintain a healthy regimen into old age. What do I do now? A lot of things are ruined. Vacations. Any physical activity. What goals can I set at this point? Every day brings deterioration and more limits, and a feeling of being finished.

The evidence is here, people. Looking at other possible explanations is a must, but the cases we've related here are pretty clear-cut. I will say that this forum stands apart from most Internet forums by not viciously attacking any voice of dissent, and that's good.

But now we need to get the word out and hopefully prevent others from destroying their bodies.

Edited by Stokestack, 21 October 2008 - 10:43 PM.


#74 zorba990

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:29 AM

Unfortunately, my experience parallels ET's exactly. Serious and debilitating tendonitis and snapping and popping body-wide, with no apparent improvement since stopping the supplements (Bioforte 500) months ago. Yesterday I tried playing basketball, and added a completely new site of acute inflammation above my knee. I will now have to go for yet another doctor visit and see if there's a tear.

While I'm not about to entertain ET's level of drama, I can say that this is a severe and depressing degradation of my life. I have always planned to maintain a healthy regimen into old age. What do I do now? A lot of things are ruined. Vacations. Any physical activity. What goals can I set at this point? Every day brings deterioration and more limits, and a feeling of being finished.

The evidence is here, people. Looking at other possible explanations is a must, but the cases we've related here are pretty clear-cut. I will say that this forum stands apart from most Internet forums by not viciously attacking any voice of dissent, and that's good.

But now we need to get the word out and hopefully prevent others from destroying their bodies.


Of important note here is that Bioforte 500 is only 50% T-Res, so your effect may be due to the other
ingredients.

#75 E.T.

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:31 AM

While I'm not about to entertain ET's level of drama


It's not a drama: it's practicality. I'm going to have to resign from work because I have become immobile, and I can't mentally focus any more. The last part of my body to break down is my neck: every vertibrate is crackling and there is constant tightness and soarness.

Without work, I can either live on the streets, or deactivate my cerebral cortex.

#76 E.T.

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:43 AM

By the way, I feel the same as you: use me simply as a test subject, so that others may be able to achieve Transhuman ascension. Many will have to get sick and die before Transhumanists get it right.

But, regarding my condition, I have no idea which supplement caused the problem. Perhaps it was DHEA all along and not resveratrol. Maybe I have developed adrenal failure, or what if the melatonin I was taking affected my growth hormone levels and I am experiencing a HGH dificiency which is causing a breakdown of joints? I had read a study that taking melatonin increases HGH production.
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#77 E.T.

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:52 AM

By the way, if anyone knows of any Transhumanist scientists or transhumanist organizations that would like to dissect me, I'm available. Perhaps they can see if they can remove my brain from my body and see how long I can live in some solution. this would provide data for future brain transplants, though I'm sure many governments are already secretly doing this with kidnapped humans and so forth, including our own.

All I ask is that I be kept out of pain while doing the experiments on me: ideally in an unconscious state.

#78 maxwatt

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 06:44 AM

By the way, I feel the same as you: use me simply as a test subject, so that others may be able to achieve Transhuman ascension. Many will have to get sick and die before Transhumanists get it right.

But, regarding my condition, I have no idea which supplement caused the problem. Perhaps it was DHEA all along and not resveratrol. Maybe I have developed adrenal failure, or what if the melatonin I was taking affected my growth hormone levels and I am experiencing a HGH dificiency which is causing a breakdown of joints? I had read a study that taking melatonin increases HGH production.


Your symptoms are consistent with heavy metal poisoning, possibly from mercury or arsenic. You should ask your doctor to test for heavy metal poisoning; it can be cured.

I will note the following:

1) of the hundred or so people who have reported on their experiences with resveratrol here, only two have shown such severe symptoms as smokestack or E.T.
2) Most of the people reporting here use high-purity resveratrol, >=98%.
3) Poor quality resveratrol can be loaded with heavy metals, as per a post by Anthony, where he tested a 50% sample, and found toxic amounts of mercury.
4) Both E.t. and Smokestack used 50% products, more likely to have impurities.
5) Sirtris ran human trials at very large doses (2.5 and 5 grams) with a large sample size -- ie, lots of people. These joint symptoms did not occur in the test population. If it were a side effect or resveratrol rather than an impurity, I would expect it to have shown up. It did not.
6) All commercial resveratrol comes from China. The best roots for extract come from Guangxi or Yunnan province, which are still rural. Other sources are cheaper, and are likely contaminated with heavy metals from industrial pollution due to the burning of coal.

In short, I think you guys are likely suffering heavy metal poisoning, which will not resolve itself without medical treatment but is curable. See a doctor for testing and for treatment as warranted. Please. Tell the doctor what you suspect, and why, and what supplement you were taking. Show him the bottle. It's a difficult diagnosis for a doctor, because the symptoms are vague and could be caused by many other things.

If one is to take high doses of resveratrol, I recommend sticking with a 98 or 99% resveratrol product, from a source who tests every batch.

#79 zorba990

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 12:14 AM

I had another blood test done a week ago: this time, they took a urine sample to measure my cortisol levels to see if the DHEA I was taking resulted adrenal failure, causing low cortisol and thus degeneration of joints and other tissue. I am still waiting for the results.

I am now feeling very weak all the time as well, have no energy, mental weakness. I feel like I'm dying. I am incapable of living like this. If no solution is found soon, I'll have to terminate myself. Someone told me that some States have legalized assisted termination. I'll have to research that.

I think it would be cool if we were living in a Matrix and I just wake up in other reality. I can understand the mass appeal for religion.


The following is not medical advice and not intended to substitute for such.

Those could be symptoms of mercury poisoning. Absent any history of anxiety/depression I would
SERIOUSLY look into that. If it were me,
I personally would start taking cilantro and N-Acetyl Cysteine as well as avoiding any seafood or
other possible sources of contamination. I'd also make sure to be taking proper amounts of basic
nutrients like B vitamins. I find that 250mg of Calcium Pantothenate (B5) under the tongue will correct
adrenal issues rather quickly for me - as long as everything else is balanced - if B5 is the issue you
should feel better almost immediately - and its very cheap - get the hard tablets - yes its bitter
and chalky.

#80 hmm

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 12:57 AM

5) Sirtris ran human trials at very large doses (2.5 and 5 grams) with a large sample size -- ie, lots of people. These joint symptoms did not occur in the test population. If it were a side effect or resveratrol rather than an impurity, I would expect it to have shown up. It did not.


Maxwatt, what was the Sirtris sample size, exactly? To me, this could conceivably be a scenario where perhaps 1 out of 200 rsv users get these tendon/muscle/joint problems. If one out of 200 people get problems, and if Sirtris' sample size was 200, then wouldn't there be a reasonable chance that no problems would show up in those Sirtris human trials? At the same time, on this site we might have well over 200 people who are taking impure rsv products, while perhaps we have less than 200 people taking pure rsv products. So yes, perhaps then the larger sample size of impure rsv users yields problem reports, while the smaller sample size of pure rsv users does not...

edited for bad math and clarity

Edited by hmm, 23 October 2008 - 01:49 AM.


#81 maxwatt

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 08:31 AM

5) Sirtris ran human trials at very large doses (2.5 and 5 grams) with a large sample size -- ie, lots of people. These joint symptoms did not occur in the test population. If it were a side effect or resveratrol rather than an impurity, I would expect it to have shown up. It did not.


Maxwatt, what was the Sirtris sample size, exactly? To me, this could conceivably be a scenario where perhaps 1 out of 200 rsv users get these tendon/muscle/joint problems. If one out of 200 people get problems, and if Sirtris' sample size was 200, then wouldn't there be a reasonable chance that no problems would show up in those Sirtris human trials? At the same time, on this site we might have well over 200 people who are taking impure rsv products, while perhaps we have less than 200 people taking pure rsv products. So yes, perhaps then the larger sample size of impure rsv users yields problem reports, while the smaller sample size of pure rsv users does not...

edited for bad math and clarity


Their sample size was 270 people from 3 races; the number of posters in this forum is under a hundred. Given the fact that the symptoms match mercury or possibly cadmium poisoning, they should get tested for this immediately so they can begin chelation therapy, which will reverse it, possibly cure it. There is a possibility of long term nerve damage, and the earlier chelation is started the less likely permanent problems are.

#82 davidd

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Posted 23 October 2008 - 04:25 PM

If we wanted to test various brands for contaminants, how much does a COA cost to have done?

#83 maxwatt

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 04:03 AM

If we wanted to test various brands for contaminants, how much does a COA cost to have done?


Full test for heavy metals to EU standards, plus resveratrol (cis and trans) plus emodin, bacterial contaminants by plate count, about $700. It takes 20 to 30 grams of material. I've run these tests on what I have bought in bulk. Anthony, whose banner ad is at the top of this page, tests all his batches for these substances. He is perhaps the most reliable retail supplier out there, though I disagree with him on the need for micronization for bioavailability.

#84 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 04:53 PM

That's ok,

We have both micronized and regular resveratrol...
If you can micronize it (like many do here with alcohol...) you don't need micronized resveratrol.

A

#85 davidd

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Posted 24 October 2008 - 08:16 PM

If we wanted to test various brands for contaminants, how much does a COA cost to have done?


Full test for heavy metals to EU standards, plus resveratrol (cis and trans) plus emodin, bacterial contaminants by plate count, about $700. It takes 20 to 30 grams of material. I've run these tests on what I have bought in bulk. Anthony, whose banner ad is at the top of this page, tests all his batches for these substances. He is perhaps the most reliable retail supplier out there, though I disagree with him on the need for micronization for bioavailability.





Thanks for the information maxwatt. Any idea on cost if we were just looking for heavy metals? The mercury conversation has me a bit worried, especially with that COA that Anthony posted.

As for the bioavailability, my understanding was that it would just take less of the micronized form to produce the same effect as the regular form. Is there a debate about the regular form's bioavailability, period?

Enlighten me, please. :) (and yes, I'm serious, not being a smart @ss)

And I'm seriously considering buying Anthony's product. The capsule form isn't much more expensive than what I'm taking now and the powder form is definitely cheaper. I'm still doing some tests, so I don't want to change the variables, but I'm minorly curious about the problems people are having and more than minorly worried about the chance of getting an "off" batch that has a lot of mercury. Just means I need to get my testing done as quickly as possible and then switch to the good stuff. :)


David

Edited by davidd, 24 October 2008 - 08:20 PM.


#86 rhc124

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 05:12 AM

It has been a while since I have posted but I wanted to wait until I have gone through a full cycle of being off resveratrol and trying it again. What follows is my experience.

It has been about two months since I dropped resveratrol after being on it for a little over one year. I began taking it in the summer of 2007 with the Revgenetic R300. By December of 2007 I started having hip joint pain. Many people on this forum recommended that it was the 50% that was causing it and I should switch to the 95%+ which I did. The hip joint pain went away for awhile but soon my old football left shoulder starting hurting. At the time I did not connect this with resveratrol because it had flared up before in the past. But the problem this time is that the pain did not go away. Then in the spring of this year my feet starting hurting. I posted about this and no one seemed to connect this with resveratrol. By the summer I started having a constant neck pain, along with everything else that I have mentioned including the hip pain. Finally, by August my knuckles starting hurting and it seemed that my fingures wanted to contract all the time.

I take a lot of supplements and in mid August I decided to drop everything to see what would happen, which I posted about. I can tell you this, dropping resveratrol was worse than dropping zoloft anyday, which I have done. In fact, while taking resveratrol I was able to drop the zoloft that I had been taking for years. Resveratrol did great things for me but I have found out there is a very serious side effect. After dropping everything, it took me about one month to get back to normal, as in joint wise and feet. Then about three weeks ago I decided to try the resveratrol again (I have about 200 grams in the freezer). Before I was taking about 1.5 gm a day of the 98% stuff. This time I tried 350 mg of the microtized REv. After only a few days my shoulder starting hurting again and I stopped taking it. Since then I have tried most all of my other supplements with no problems.

From my own experience I believe that resveratrol was the cause of my joint and feet problems. I wish someone here could tell use what is going on. I would still be taking resveratrol, if it were not for the side effects that I have mentioned, because I felt so much better when taking it. I may try again soon the see what happens. Heck, I am going to have to do something with the $300 worth of resveratrol in the freezer.

Summary: Although there are a lot of talking heads on this forum saying that the joint, tendon and feet problems are imaginary, caused by 50% or fake. I can tell you that the symptoms are very very real and can be serious and I experienced them both on 50% and 98%. Please please someone tell use what is going one. I want to be able to take this supplement again.
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#87 hmm

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 11:46 PM

Their sample size was 270 people from 3 races; the number of posters in this forum is under a hundred.

I'm not sure we can derive much out of the number of posters. Many people would rather just lurk on a forum and not post. In fact, people with problems might be much more motivated to post, either to warn others or to try to get help. So theoretically there could be 2000 users out there, only one hundred of them posting, and a disproportionate fraction of those posting could have problems.

But to step back and take another tack, and just accept the human trials results: is there any possible ingredient in SRT501 that up to now has been dismissed as being unimportant, that might be helping to protect SRT501 users from adverse effects?

#88 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 04:06 AM

Hi rhc124,

I think most folks that can help, may want to know your whole story without digging through posts. I have compiled small summary of them below, and the dates that you posted them. I don't know what else you maybe taking, so if you can post any other supplements or medications, it maybe helpful.

This is the information I have about you from your posts:
====================================
- Started Res at 41 Years Old. You are now 42.
- Height: 6'1"
- Weight: 200 Pounds
- 50mg Zoloft (stopped taking this after some months on resveratrol)
- Started 300mg Resveratrol (50% purity) in late July/early June 2007
- Allergies? Yes "I have them big time" (mostly due to dust mites according to the two tests done)
- Diverticulitis (September 2008)
- High Fiber Diet (Taking this for years)
- Your hands have issues when you work outside
====================================
Post Summaries:

07/15/2007:
- Have been on 300mg Resveratrol (50% purity) for about 3 weeks
- High anxiety when taking 300mg resveratrol with Zoloft in the morning, so you switched zoloft to night and took res in the morning.

07/16/2007:
- Had stopped res for 2 days, and switched to zoloft in the morning.

10/27/2007:
- You slowly stopped taking zoloft after the last post (presumably sometime after 07/15/2007)
- You then moved the 300mg of res (50% purity) to lunch time only, but still experienced anxiety
- You eventually took 900mg of res (300mg morning, lunch and dinner) the anxiety disappeared at this time.

10/31/2007:
- You mention Res has an anti-depressant effect, but if you miss a dose you can tell the difference in anxiety.

12/08/2007:
- You mention that you may have more energy, but it maybe a placebo effect.
- You mention res and zoloft was not a good experience.
- You first mention joint pain.

12/08/2007:
- You mention you are taking 1.2 grams of resveratrol now (50% purity)
- You mention very sharp hip pain hindering walking

01/06/2008:
- You mention you started taking 900mg that worked great for depression and anxiety, and were now on a dose greater than 1 gram.
- Because of join pain you stopped resveratrol, but after 2-3 days had to take it again because of anxiety and depression.

01/07/2008:
- You mention you take 10mg of Bioperine 30 minutes before I take Resv in the morning.

02/01/2008:
- You now take 2.2 grams of resveratrol a day. (1 gram powder in the morning (50%? 98%? 99%? you don't mention purity), and 2 300mg capsules in the afternoon.
- For the past couple of weeks, basically no more joint pain.

02/02/2008:
- You mention you did not have an injury for your hip, and that you don't exercise.
- You mention that every 5 years you get pain in your left shoulder that you attribute to football some 23 years earlier.
- You mention that over a 4 month period your right hip hurt alot, and your left hip hurt much less than the right.
- You mention that the pain started subsiding and by this time, mostly gone away.

04/09/2008:
- Mentioned that you just got 98% resveratrol from Vital Prime

04/20/2008:
- Mentioned you are now mixing 14 grams, but in a later post you say it is half because of a mistake in measurement. (7 grams)
- The concoction is mixed with Everclear, lecithin, olive oil, and orange juice.
- It makes about 24 ounces, and you take 4 ounces in the morning for the next 8 days.

04/30/2008:
- Added HPMC to concoction.

05/03/2008:
- Mentioned a measurement error, and that resveratrol should be reduced by half for weekly concoction.

05/04/2008:
- Mention you get a poison ivy like swelling when you work outside.
- Mention you have alot of allergies, that are mostly due to dust mites because of 2 tests you have taken.
- Mention that you have had another hole drilled in for drainage, because of allergies.
- Mention Cortisone does seem to help the hands.

05/04/2008:
- Mention that your concoctions maybe using around 2 to 2.5 grams instead of higher dosage.

06/12/2008:
- Mention that you believe resveratrol has given you a significant contribution to your life because of dropping zoloft, and more energy.
- Mention "All of these side effects have passed over time execpt for the rash on my hands, which is very mild and I have had severe allergies most of my adult life( actually it only pops up when I work outside and it is really very mild)"

08/15/2008:
- Mention feet hurting when taking 3 grams a day (98% VP), and went away when I reduced it to 1.5-2 grams.
- Mention that your feet appear to be hurting again, but not as bad as previous experience.

08/15/2008:
- You mention feet really hurt when you take your shoes off and are barefoot, on ball and heel area.
- Feet feel heavy with mild discomfort.

08/19/2008:
- Mention that you did go on a camping trip back in May when your feet where at their worst, and the walking seemed to help.
- mentioned that you will reduce resveratrol to 750mg a day.
- Mention a concern about copper deficiency.

09/09/2008:
- Mention that your doctor says you have diverticulitis.
- Mention you have been on a high fiber diet for years.

10/25/2008:
- You mention you have dropped resveratrol for about 2 months now
- Mentioned neck pain you had in spring, and knuckles starting hurting (and it seemed that fingers wanted to contract all the time).

====================================


Because of your posts over time in this forum, I find your story very interesting and believable.
Give me a bit, and I will look into it. I don't believe it is Osteoarthritis, psoriatic arthritis or arthritis related because resveratrol is a natural TNF inhibitor.

I haven't had issues at 2 grams a day (for over 2 years), but suspect res may not be for everyone because of allergies, health conditions, or other reactions to things that a person maybe taking, which may contribute to the issue (I'll explain that last one in my next post).

#89 Dmitri

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 05:04 AM

If we wanted to test various brands for contaminants, how much does a COA cost to have done?


Full test for heavy metals to EU standards, plus resveratrol (cis and trans) plus emodin, bacterial contaminants by plate count, about $700. It takes 20 to 30 grams of material. I've run these tests on what I have bought in bulk. Anthony, whose banner ad is at the top of this page, tests all his batches for these substances. He is perhaps the most reliable retail supplier out there, though I disagree with him on the need for micronization for bioavailability.


Why would heavy metal contamination even be a problem with res? I have never heard of other supplements being contaminated, so why is res having this problem (if in fact metal poisoning is causing their pain).

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot to support LongeCity (this will replace the google ad above).

#90 Anthony_Loera

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  • Location:Miami Florida

Posted 26 October 2008 - 05:46 AM

rhc124,

Below is my opinion on the matter. I advise that folks should consult their doctor regarding any issue they may have, as my opinion below does not count in anyway as medical advice. So, rhc124 please look to your doctor for advice, as this is just an opinion...

Now for my opinion... your posts over time gave me alot to think about, specially because I can identify you easily as one of our customers as well. You are most credible in my opinion, and therefore have prompted me to look for possible items/effects that may contribute to the issues you have posted about. Again, I am not a doctor, personally have had no pain symptoms that you mentioned and have been taking 2 grams a day for the last 2 years... First, lets look at the common items that can be attributed to the kind of issues you mention (basically my thoughts on the possible causes):


These below are are common, but I don't believe they are the issue (in my opinion):


Osteoarthritis:
==============
Resveratrol treated rabbits seem to be ok when treated, howver they were injected at the site of the issue:
http://www.springerl...v1600625172522/

Other links studies regarding resveratrol and arthritis:
2005 Study: http://www.sciencedi...be2f285b0b2bb6e
2008 Study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18759268

Inflammatory arthritis:
===================

The study below suggests it to be a positive anti-inflammatory agent:
2007 Study: http://www.springerl...28774rug243315/


Rheumatoid arthritis:
===================

The study below suggests it may stop prolifirtion of this type of arthritis:
2006 Study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16951511

psoriatic arthritis
==============
TNF may cause this, but resveratrol is a natural TNF inhibitor, which would also work on other types of arthritis, as well as others.


Below is what I think it may be:


Now, there are many others that can be possible issues, but the one that I think is relevant is below. I think it might be it, because the episodes you posted about appear to be transient and intense, rather than increasing over time. So in my laymans opinion, it may be a "Crystal-Induced Arthritis" because of Uric Acid:

Gout and/or Uric Acid:
==============
I think it maybe high Uric Acid. When you have high amounts, Uric Acid forms crystals in joints, rather than being excreted in the urine. Uric Acid is the final oxidation product of purine catabolism, basically metabolic pathways to synthesize and break down purines. Adenosine appears to be one such purine, and it appears that a relationship may exist between Uric Acid and Plasma Adenosine Levels, at least in one study with women with preeclampsia: http://content.karge...e.asp?Doi=52918

You can raise Uric Acid normally by doing the following:
=====================================

High intake of purine rich foods
Foods high in purines can increase blood uric acid levels. Foods to avoid with gout include offal foods, red meat and shellfish.

High alcohol intake
Alcohol, particularly beer and wine can increase uric acid levels in the body. Heavy alcohol intake is a risk factor which often precedes a gout attack.

Genetics
Gout often runs in families being passed down from one generation to the next. This genetic component disproves the common notion that gout is mainly caused by excessive eating and drinking.

Obesity
Obesity can be a contributory factor and increases the likelihood of gout.

High blood pressure.
High blood pressure is linked to high uric acid levels. High uric levels are also linked to other conditions such as heart disease.

Medications
Diuretics, aspirin and chemotherapy treatment for cancer can increase uric acid levels.
=====================================

Having said all that, this is where resveratrol may be a factor: In a 2003 study called "Resveratrol provides late-phase cardioprotection by means of a nitric oxide- and adenosine-mediated mechanism" states that Adenosine levels increased when taking resveratrol to help rat hearts:

We suggested that the metabolic pattern following resveratrol infusion is similar to that produced by ischemic preconditioning, thus indicating that an increase in adenosine availability is involved in resveratrol cardioprotection. We have now tested this hypothesis using a low-flow ischemia protocol that we believe is more clinically relevant. The results show that resveratrol stimulates adenosine release, and significantly increases coronary flow.


Because of this study, it maybe that uric acid may be increased while taking resveratrol for short periods of time. Hypothetically, if this increase is sustained over time Uric Acid may crystallize in the joints causing issues. Typically Uric Acid is not very soluble, however making it soluble by taking baking soda is said to work, and move it out of your system. Again, just a layman's opinion, but you may want to have your doc check for this and see if you are taking things that may contribute to a Uric Acid issue.

============================================

For a complete list of arthritis items and evaluations, check this article out. I think it's really good compared to most information out there:
http://www.turner-wh...ar03_recent.pdf

============================================

Again, I am only a layman and not a doctor, but I hope this has provided information.
Please print the PDF our, then look to your physician to see what he thinks.

For the rest of us that do not have this issue, I hope it provides information regarding a possible side effect depending on food, drink, genetics, and other factors. Please feel to correct me if I made a mistake in this post, and excuse my spelling.
============================================

Please link back to this post here at imminst.org, if you decide it's information that folks would like to consider.
Remember, It's only an opinion piece on the matter, and not medical advice of any sort.

Thanks
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 26 October 2008 - 06:00 AM.





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