112 replies to this topic

[scottknl]

It's a good point, but some levels can be determined and guided by blood tests. Also many major deficiencies will show up as nutrient deficiency diseases and will be quickly spotted by either the dieter or medical professional. Another point is that the dietary guidelines likely have a bit of wiggle room built in anyway.

[Namkcalb]

An issue you may not have considered is with the advance in life-extension technology, the extra years may be multiplied by new advancements or best case scenario, it might allow you to survive long enough to get true immortality.

[Mind]

Here is an interesting perspective that I think relates to CR in humans as well.

Some Longevity Mutations Require Civilization and Technology

So in other words, lack of p66(Shc) only extends life and causes the mutants to prosper as individuals if they have the benefits of civilization and technology: secure food supplies, secure heating, protection from the elements, and so forth. If shoved out into the uncaring world, they fare poorly - and would soon enough vanish as a genetic line, out-competed by animals with shorter life spans but a better adapted metabolism. We might expect to see similar results for the range of other longevity genes discovered in small mammals: if there was an evolutionary benefit to their selection for animals in the wild, then we should expect that these longevity mutations would already have been selected.

Most data seems to point toward CR as being as a good method for extending life and health in humans, but it would not be possible without our current modern society/economy. Back in the day when humans needed to hunt and gather or even during most of the period of agriculture, one needed to eat a lot more calories. A person needed to eat a lot of calories in order to work/hunt/survive. Thus, as many people have pointed out before, the paleo style diet is probably a good place to start for achieving good health. However, we don't need to eat as many calories as our paleo or hard-working agrarian ancestors did, in order to survive. Essentially we only need enough calories to communicate and think in order to prosper in the information age.

[DR01D]

I believe Calorie Restriction in humans has an enormous impact on "health"span but may not necessarily increase maximum lifespan. If calorie restriction increased maximum lifespan wouldn't someone have recorded evidence of this by now? For example somewhere back in history a prisoner locked up and fed 1200 calories per day might have lived to 150 years old. Someone would have noticed this incredible event and documented it. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge there is no credible evidence that things like that occurred over the past several thousand years of human history.

IMHO if you want outstanding health and want to live to 100 years old (+/-) cut your calories, but I wouldn't expect to reach 150.

I'm cutting my calories for the health benefits I get right now. My blood pressure dropped from high normal to 106/72. CR works.

[scottknl]

I believe Calorie Restriction in humans has an enormous impact on "health"span but may not necessarily increase maximum lifespan. If calorie restriction increased maximum lifespan wouldn't someone have recorded evidence of this by now? For example somewhere back in history a prisoner locked up and fed 1200 calories per day might have lived to 150 years old. Someone would have noticed this incredible event and documented it. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge there is no credible evidence that things like that occurred over the past several thousand years of human history.

IMHO if you want outstanding health and want to live to 100 years old (+/-) cut your calories, but I wouldn't expect to reach 150.

I'm cutting my calories for the health benefits I get right now. My blood pressure dropped from high normal to 106/72. CR works.

I have to say, that would be a very unique prison where they would give you a diet of full nutrition with low energy food selections. Malnutrition is what separates those who die from those who live with properly implemented CR. I think only a few people have managed really good CR style diet, so it's not too surprising that no one has really recorded anything better than the Okinawin experiences. Besides, you have to admit that good records of births and deaths were only kept starting about 150 years ago anyway. Prior to that it was very spotty indeed. We're really only talking about the difference between someone living from 80 average age instead living to 120 anyway. Nobody will reach 150 without some form of intervention with stem cell / gene therapy, SENS etc.

Glad you're on the CR train into the future. My BP is similar to yours. My favorite thing about doing CR is that I very rarely get sick. Heh, he I look like a superman compared to my co-workers that are always away from work sick. Cheers.

[DR01D]

I have to say, that would be a very unique prison where they would give you a diet of full nutrition with low energy food selections.

You're right that might not have been the best example. A better possibility might be a group of monks who lived a spartan but healthy life. Somebody should have noticed and documented incredible longevity in a group like this.

Besides, you have to admit that good records of births and deaths were only kept starting about 150 years ago anyway. Prior to that it was very spotty indeed.

Yeah, that's probably true. My father is 79 years old and his birth certificate has the wrong year on it. 200 years ago he wouldn't have had a birth certificate at all.

My mind is open that CR might extend maximum lifespan in humans. I'm just waiting for the direct evidence.

Jack Lalanne lived to 96 by eating a relatively low calorie diet combined with an incredible amount of daily exercise. He was in excellent physical and mental health up until his early 90s. I think we can reliably expect those kinds of results with CR. If we get more all the better!

Edited by DR01D, 20 February 2012 - 05:34 AM.

[Adamzski]

I have always been very skinny and eaten very little, my BMI now is 19 and I have been leaner in the past.

I am never sick (touch wood) I just really have never been seriously ill and I get a cold every few years.

My only killer is that I have smoked ~40 cigarettes per day for the last (gulp) 10 years and prior to this it would have been 20 or so per day for 9 additional years.
I suppose I have increased my cancer risks by a huge margin...
If I do not already have a cancer in the very first stages and did stop smoking, could my cancer risk be the same as non smokers?

Many of my 24yo friends have smokers coughs etc, it is something that I have never had. I can jump on an exercise bike and ride 40k's at a fast 100-130 (rpm i think) with a little pushing but it does not kill me.
also Im 34 and look young for my age.

So maybe i have been doing CR all this time

[Keshan]

Same as Adamzski, I've been skinny my whole life, having mild anorexia, so it is kind of an indirect Calorie restriction, some days I barely eat anything, however I never were chronicly underweight.

My current BMI is 18.4. (178cm / 58.3 kg), lost 1.7 Kg during vacations, I just can't get myself to eat in front of people -_-... Still have anxiety while eating, and sometimes its physically hard to eat, hurts to swallow.

I am planning to work out and achieve 64 Kg then maintain that in the future, thus my planned BMI will be 20.

On topic, I think Humans on CR and good Vitamin intake (2-100x more than the suggested), should live up to 160 years.

We will see how long I will live, since I've been unintentionally on CR since I was 14 ^_^''

[Adamzski]

I was always skinny and weak, but I got into and started to enjoy doing weights. when I was 24-25 I started at the gym and took myself from 58kg to 70kg within a year, some muscle will make you crave food. Now 10yrs later I go through spurts of going to the gym for a few weeks at a time then deciding I cant be bothered... im about 65kg but still have shape, shoulders and pecs. My body was permanently changed from 1yr of hardcore weights.

[mikeb80]

Good question...
Probably a CR diet, if started before 40, can add ten or fifteen years of lifespan.

Some pros
http://www.fightagin...n-explained.php

and some cons (old article and quite pessimistic... could be outdated)
http://www.scienceda...50830065729.htm


Not a dramatical increase, but surely is worth a try, to gain some time... until more effective anti-aging therapies will be available (hopefully in 2030/40s ?).
The first -and probably the hardest- step is to cut off a 15-20% of calories.
And then it's possible to reduce gradually... but always after talking with a doctor / nutritionist.

I am 32 and some months ago, before to develop an interest for life extension, my life style was "relatively" healthy (no cigarettes, no alcoholics, moderate exercise), but I was overweight (in January 2012 my BMI was 27... and in 2009 I reached 28).
Now I'm losing weight (BMI is 24) and I'm gradually reducing calories.

The plan is to reach a BMI of 20/21 in less than one year from now.
And to maintain that shape.

Edited by mikeb80, 25 August 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[niner]

How long can humans live on CR? How about no longer than they would with a good non-CR diet? That's the suggestion from the latest primate research.

[scottknl]

How long can humans live on CR? How about no longer than they would with a good non-CR diet? That's the suggestion from the latest primate research.

While the results are disappointing, I'd hardly call them a slam dunk against CR. Probably best to wait for the Wisconsin primate study which may prove to be more in-line with prior CR studies in animals and humans. I'm not changing my vote on how long humans may live yet.

[AgeVivo]

How long can humans live on CR? How about no longer than they would with a good non-CR diet?

niner wasn't calling them a sd neither.
So far the monkey results at least suggest that quantity of calories is not all: this is not new of course, eg CR versus CRON.
Would it be bad if we gradually find that "ON" is more important than "CR"?

[Smarter]

I think its a percentage of the subjects life time,

if done correctly with supliments etc I would expect it to be around 20%

[CoffeeAHolic]

I am still skeptical of the whole thing, has any scientific evidence been provided?

[DAMABO]

personally, I think being slightly overweight has its advantages, especially with women: if you fall onto the floor, you might break your hip if your bones are weak.

[JLL]

Did anyone happen to watch the BBC documentary "Eat, Fast & Live Longer"? If primate studies on CR suggest there is no significant lifespan extension compared to healthy eating, maybe intermittent fasting isn't such a bad idea after all; both might extend healthspan.

[Saintor]

It was discussed a while ago, but an hypothesis is that it is not only about the calories intake but also the proteins intake. IMO, a few empirical observations suggest that this has some ground.

[theconomist]

It was discussed a while ago, but an hypothesis is that it is not only about the calories intake but also the proteins intake. IMO, a few empirical observations suggest that this has some ground.

Based on what I've read, protein is without a doubt a big part of the equation yet it doesn't mean that we should protein restrict instead of calorie restrict; rather, one should moderate their protein intake (and notably methionine) in tandem with a CRON diet

[InquilineKea]

I think it can get most people into their mid-90s (at least). But once you get to the 100s, it's the genes that seem to determine everything.

[Castiel]

Nobody will reach 150 without some form of intervention with stem cell / gene therapy, SENS etc.

This depends on whether later term mortality plateau exists and whether CR affects this so called late term mortality plateau(so called biological immortality phase.). To be honest I believe the immortal phase likely exists, and I also believe there can be variations in the population in this phase so some individuals might have a decent chance of reaching extreme ages even without CR.

Edited by Castiel, 02 February 2014 - 11:37 PM.

[deadwood]

We eat way too much in our modern society. Food is everywhere and they bambard you with adverts to eat bad food. Even if it doesn't increase your lifespan, doing the SAD will certaintly decrease it or at least make life more miseable.

I think it can get most people into their mid-90s (at least). But once you get to the 100s, it's the genes that seem to determine everything.

That's true. Both my grandfather and hs brother lived well into their 90's. My grandfather died peacefully and didn't take one pill. He took care of himself and always advised us not to eat too much. His brother was a drunakrd and a glutton. He died only two years younger than my grandfather but the last 15 years of hs life were terrible. He died in pain and in agony. He died in a hospital and could not walk . So even though genes play a role- you want to die healthy, not in misery.

[erzebet]

I voted for 15-20 years.

Why not more? That's my experience after working with very old patients - all of whom enjoy vegetables and fish and were lean and slightly picky about their food all their lives. I think most people can enjoy being healthy until their 80s if they eat less and better than they currently do. Good genes, high education and adequate technology could slightly increase the balance.