69 replies to this topic

[mbdrinker]

The difference between pre-1945 era and later years is that science had been kind of sincere as it was real competition between several social systems but after loss of reih 3 it become competition between west and ussr, and since about 1965 it was gradually turning into emulation of science. I don't believe in lucid dreaming. Not a single evidence from my surroundings except fairytales from brochures and some questionable individuals.

Edited by mbdrinker, 01 October 2025 - 10:04 AM.

[mbdrinker]

Also why would i want to change normal rem vivid dreams with surreal unexpectable turns of the plot by some crap with imaginary power of full control. First of all, there can't be any full control at all. Are you becoming a 3d modeller a painter who can draw a surrounding within a millisecond? of course, no. It subsonscioussness that would generate the surroudning even if you, say, order it as a kind of a client, though i don't beleive even in such limited abilities during rem sleep (besides disbelief in that total lucid bullshet...).

Edited by mbdrinker, 01 October 2025 - 10:14 AM.

[mbdrinker]

The very essense of sleep's dreams is the process of self-restoration of organism and reprocessing of memory data. This process is based on subsonscious processes. As far as you switch on consciousness you immediately switch your organism to another mode of psyche's existance. What you are trying to prove is pure abnormaly but I don't deny that abnormalies can exist with abnormal individuals under serious drugs or sick nervous metabolism.

Edited by mbdrinker, 01 October 2025 - 10:22 AM.

[pamojja]

 - can we actually boost the chances of having a lucid dream with supplements? ... With all this in mind, what is the best strategy and the best, reliable supplements (if any)?

 

 

More than 40 years ago in my youth, I tried it with Castañeda's 'Journey to Ixtlan' book described lucid dreaming technique. It did work, but this takes a lot of discipline, otherwise lucid dreaming experiences remain erratic, and as mentioned too, more often end in waking up too soon. I didn't keep that kind of discipline as a youth for long.

 

With supplements mentioned in this thread and used in the last decades only, it was even more erratic.

 

However, about 30 years I had a stark reminder of Castañeda's remembering to glance at one's hand in dreams practice, during my first 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat. Where I suddenly found myself off the mediation cushion into such a glancing at my hands conscious dreaming scene. Which, through the sheer surprise of such, woke me up very fast.

 

With more disciplined meditation practice, again about 20 years ago in a Burmese forest meditation center, intended to work through the 40 meditation objects of Buddhaghosa's 'Path to Purification', I found visions of scenes, like in psychedelics induced hallucinations or lucid dreaming, as a not really sought for by-product of very severe morning-to-evening meditation practice.

 

I let perplexity.ai describe:

 

 

In Buddhist literature, hallucinatory experiences and “perversions of insight” (vipallāsa) during insight meditation are described as phenomena that can arise when perception and mindfulness are not yet fully refined or stabilized. These experiences may consist of lights, visions, or sensory distortions that are not directly related to the true nature of reality but are instead regarded as empty appearances or delusions arising from both concentration and subtle attachments. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih+2

 

Theravada texts mention three core “hallucinations” or perversions (vipallāsa): perceiving permanence in what is impermanent, pleasure in what is suffering, and self in what is not-self. These are considered errors in perception, thought, and view—wrongly grasping illusions as insight. Traditional manuals, such as Buddhaghosa’s "Path of Purification" and other commentaries, advise meditators to recognize these phenomena as transient and not to be distracted, seduced, or misled by them. The remedies suggested emphasize returning attention to the core objects of insight—impermanence, suffering, and non-self—whenever such hallucinations or perversions of perception arise. frontiersin+2

 

Additionally, some Buddhist traditions even encourage investigating these hallucinations to understand the constructed nature of phenomenal appearances and ultimately see their emptiness, instead of clinging to them as mystical signs or realizations. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih+1

1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3879457/
2. https://www.frontier....2013.00973/pdf
3. https://www.accessto...a/wheel351.html
4. https://spaceofpossi...-of-perception/
5. https://www.aimwell....sanadipani.html
6. https://www.insightm...tural-buddhism/
7. https://www.lesswron...itation-and-the
8. https://www.buddhism...owledgefear.pdf

 

 

Met one renown western Vipassana teacher after leaving the Burmese forest monastery again, who then asked me jokingly, if I did see a 1000s Buddhas in my meditations there? Had to admit, the 1000s of naked females distracted me more. After all, dreams, hallucinations, are naturally occurring distractions to meditation (for many practitioners, but not all), and as the Buddha called it after the night of his enlightenment: The armies of Mara.

 

 

Edited by pamojja, 01 October 2025 - 11:44 AM.

[pamojja]

What you are trying to prove is pure abnormaly but I don't deny that abnormalies can exist with abnormal individuals under serious drugs or sick nervous metabolism.

 

The pathological bad side effect sadly sometimes shows after severe Vipassana retreats. With psychological vulnerabilities from the onset, very few proceed into acute psychosis, or suicide. The vast majority of participants, however, can discern delusions.

[pamojja]

I am a householder who cannot lose half a night's sleep. With all this in mind, what is the best strategy and the best, reliable supplements (if any)?

 

My first Vipassana retreat 30 years ago was also the end of me occasionally experimenting with psychedelic drugs. If one can develop mental factors in meditation to such an extent, surpassing every peace or euphory drugs may give - and in a more reliable way - what would be their point? Besides, such endogenous highs are perfectly legal.
 

I think it's similar with lucid dreaming. With supplements and without concurrent mental development, it could stay erratic only. Just as drug experiences. 

 

 

 

 

 

[QuestforLife]

 

My first Vipassana retreat 30 years ago was also the end of me occasionally experimenting with psychedelic drugs. If one can develop mental factors in meditation to such an extent, surpassing every peace or euphory drugs may give - and in a more reliable way - what would be their point? Besides, such endogenous highs are perfectly legal.
 

I think it's similar with lucid dreaming. With supplements and without concurrent mental development, it could stay erratic only. Just as drug experiences. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is pretty much what I thought. But it is not easy to develop such abilities, so I wondered if one could get a 'leg up' from supplements. But I totally agree, if there is no psychological/spiritual development, then there is no point pursuing such a course, as you will end up exactly where you started, plus a few nice experiences. 

[pamojja]

But I totally agree, if there is no psychological/spiritual development, then there is no point pursuing such a course, as you will end up exactly where you started, plus a few nice experiences. 

 

Exactly. I believe this is also why we don't hear of long-term mastery of lucid dreaming in this thread.

 

Drugs may give glimpses only, of what is possible in human mental development. Consistently developing human potential becomes different for actually travelling that terrain, and not remembering from holiday photos only.
 

However, holidays are nice disruptors of dumped down routines too. And compared to lucid dreaming, maybe a virtual reality headset would be the closed analog? (I've got no experience with)

 

[mbdrinker]

Ha, ha, ha, really funny. The most fun comes from the fact that so called buddhism was invented in late 1800s by the jews Blavatskaja and Rerih (yes that guy who drew pyramid design on dollar money). So,boys and girls i recommend total ignoring of that vitc overdosing pomoja guy and his collaborants citing cheap frauding brochures and books from unholy 90s...

[mbdrinker]

Seek for lsd or atropin experience and leave that bullshetty lucid dreaming to fans of cheap garage "literature" like castaneda and alike. That pomoja guy indeed shows the correct direction - just do the opposite way to what he says