21 replies to this topic

[John_Ventureville]

Many people live far away from their cryonics provider and to top things off even live alone. What is the reality of the situation when death strikes? I have heard so many different views.

John Grigg

[JonesGuy]

Once the dendritic synaptic weights can no longer be deduced or replicated, I'd expect.

[Cyberbrain]

Does Alcor have any patient rooms, where a patient could stay until pronounced dead so they could start the cryonics process immediately?

[Shannon Vyff]

I can quickly answer that they do not. But any Alcor official is welcome to put in more detail. This is done for legal reasons, they do work with a close Hospice though in order to begin at the moment of legal death.

Some cryonicists will wear some sort of life alarm (even if they don't live alone)-- http://www.lifealert.com/ there are more advanced ones that can monitor heart rate and send the info to emergency responders.

I did vote for 24 hours, but agree with the first option as a best case scenario, I went with what I would see as a worst case scenario. Of course, if the person has been treated, and is being shipped in proper cooling--I could even vote for three days. I was thinking when I voted though, that it was meant how long could a body stay at room temp.

[forever freedom]

I don't know. All i know is that if i got terminally sick or in a very fragile condition because of old age (if it hasn't been cured by then) i would go to a place very near Alcor and have them ready to come to me at any minute. Those life alerts should do.

[VictorBjoerk]

How many of the people that have joined alcor but are now dead have been frozen and how many have died without being treated by Alcor?
Why wasn't Roy Walford possible to preserve BTW?

[bgwowk]

Does Alcor have any patient rooms, where a patient could stay until pronounced dead so they could start the cryonics process immediately?

That was tried once. The result was the most serious legal crisis in Alcor's history.

http://www.alcor.org...raKentCase.html

It's now recognized that there needs to be an arms-length relationship between personnel and organizations that treat patients and pronounce legal death, and personnel and organizations that perform cryonics procedures. For this purpose, Alcor works with a hospice not far from their facility.

[bgwowk]

How many of the people that have joined alcor but are now dead have been frozen and how many have died without being treated by Alcor?

I assume you are asking how many cryopreserved patients at Alcor suffered cardiac arrest without cryonics personnel in attendance, and that therefore did not receive a normal standby/stabilization. I believe that historically about three out of four Alcor patients suffered unattended cardiac arrest, although the fraction has been larger in recent years. The causes are complex, but I believe a contributing factor is fewer people with medical knowledge involved in cryonics relative to the growing caseload. Predicting whether and when sick people are going to legally die, and deploying limited resources across the country accordingly, is a difficult task that takes a lot of experience and medical sophistication.

It should be noted that although most cryonics patients don't currently receive standby/stabilization, cryoprotection is still possible in most cases.

Why wasn't Roy Walford possible to preserve BTW?

http://www.cryonet.o...p.cgi?msg=24045

Edited by bgwowk, 12 May 2008 - 06:40 PM.

[VictorBjoerk]

Has it improved with recent years or do still 3/4 not achieve stabilization? do you know how many of the total deceased Alcor members that have not been cryopreserved?

[John_Ventureville]

I have been told by reliable sources that a room temperature dead body at 24 hours has already decayed enough that if you cut open the top of the skull, the brain will easily pour out like partially solidified jello. I would have earlier guessed that the brain would take at least 3-5 days to get to that point.

Time is of the essence.

John

[xlifex]

On "post-mortem"autolysis of the brain and cryonics:

http://www.depressed...ult-rat-brains/

See also:

http://www.alcor.org...l/ischemic.html

And:

http://www.benbest.c.../IR_Damage.html

[bgwowk]

I have been told by reliable sources that a room temperature dead body at 24 hours has already decayed enough that if you cut open the top of the skull, the brain will easily pour out like partially solidified jello.

Your brain *right now* has the rigidity of Jello. That's why the brain floats in cerebrospinal fluid, and why people get terrible headaches when they lose CSF. Much of what is known about human brain disease scientists learned by removing, sectioning, and even freezing brains many hours after death. There's no dramatic change in the rheology of the brain after 24 hours. Microscopy is needed to see changes over that time course. Of course long intervals of ischemia are still bad for many reasons, and should be aggressively avoided.

This article has a table with references to studies of brain tissue after various intervals of clinical death

http://www.alcor.org...ldsonBrief.html

Edited by bgwowk, 12 May 2008 - 09:49 PM.

[bgwowk]

Has it improved with recent years or do still 3/4 not achieve stabilization? do you know how many of the total deceased Alcor members that have not been cryopreserved?

I think it has been getting worse for reasons that I stated. As far as I know, all legally deceased Alcor members whose bodies have been found have been cryopreserved, although sometimes under poor conditions.

[VictorBjoerk]

Has it improved with recent years or do still 3/4 not achieve stabilization? do you know how many of the total deceased Alcor members that have not been cryopreserved?

I think it has been getting worse for reasons that I stated. As far as I know, all legally deceased Alcor members whose bodies have been found have been cryopreserved, although sometimes under poor conditions.

Do you consider Alcor being the best cryonic providers?

[drus]

I voted 8 hrs, but i personally believe it's probably closer to 12 give or take, at room temp. If they can put you on ice for the wait, then maybe as much as 24-72hrs seems reasonably possible. Anything beyond that is probably a lost cause, or at the very least really pushing the envelope! Of course, asap is always best, obviously within minutes would be optimal.

And as far as comparing CSPs, i don't think we should be doing that so much. In the long run i think it's better for us all if we're watching each other's back! all cryonicists need to be working together and not competing to out-do the other! Both CI and Alcor are top notch, and each person needs to do their own research and decide for themselves.

Edited by drus, 16 May 2008 - 12:50 AM.

[Heliotrope]

24 hours tops

some have been lost in moutains, avalanche etc right, still preserved, don't know if they'd wake up the same , but if lost in a snowy mountain , the cold'd do it.

Edited by HYP86, 16 May 2008 - 12:35 AM.

[niner]

I don't see the point of asking this question of a bunch of random people, some of whom have neither medical knowledge nor knowledge of cryonics. I would imagine that someone associated with Alcor or other cryonics organizations, or even a forensic pathologist would be able to answer this question with some degree of authority.

[forever freedom]

I don't see the point of asking this question of a bunch of random people, some of whom have neither medical knowledge nor knowledge of cryonics.

Because we love speculating and wondering about things we actually know very little about?

[Heliotrope]

How about this for a technically correct answer in the qualitative sense (not quantitative),

2 words: Not very long,


EDIT : okay that was 3.

Edited by HYP86, 16 May 2008 - 07:03 AM.

[VictorBjoerk]

Doesn't this forum have a lot of people being professional in their fields like cryonics,medicine and life extension that may actually have the authority to answer questions?

[Jess]

Why worry about the body........what if "you" had a way to become immortal before you died? or got into a incorrigable health situation? What if your health situation could get better and then had a chance for immortality.....how much would you pay for such a contract?

[Nova]

At cage freezing in the beginning place a cage in glycerine, and then in liquid nitrogen and all the same not all cages survive. In glycerine place for water disappearance in a cage. Then in nitrogen quickly freeze differently slow a frost will destroy a cage.