159 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

Zoolander recently started a thread with the title "Mine is Longer than yours". I responded to his post in the following manner

Zoolander, I am very offended by your post, or to more accurately put it, I'm offended by the topics header "Mine is Longer than yours". That particular header is a double en-tender and is offensive to me because I have a really really small penis and do not want your topics header (no pun intended), showing up in the active topics list daily to remind me of what a tiny little penis I have. It matters not if I am the only male with a small penis who is emotionally effective by this highly offensive post topic header, but I claim that there could be others who require some sort of protection from this inflammatory and highly sexual suggestive topic header.

In addition to speaking for other longevity penile challenged males, as I fear that King Cnorwood is currently cowering in his castle, I would like to advance some of his recent concerns on his behalf. When speaking of the problems of the free speech forum, King Cnorwood spoke of offensive titles that might show up, here we have one that has actually shown up in the regular forums. Or to quote King Cnorwood, "Not only can the material and titles be offending but it is a huge loophole for spammers...". I also fear that this could be a very disruptive thread because of the prurient nature of the title and the discourse that might ensue. Or as King Cnorwood would have it, "Trolls have and will try to disrupt the site by filling up the Active Topics with offensive and disruptive content with the only purpose of disrupting the forums."
Allow me to advance the rest of King Cnorwoods Concerns, He didn't want to "alienate sponsors" and this post topic title could be offensive to any sponsor who has a small penis. You'll know if if your sponsors dollars start dropping like an erection.... Well, I won't complete that sentence in this sensitive part of town. By keeping this topic title umm up, won't we be taking away from the Imminst mission? Doesn't this title in King Cnorwoods words "make the forums questionable for families and children, and ensure that public figures and scientists stay away from the site."

Zoolander, shouldn't you either change the topic header, or properly place the thread in the Free Speech zone?

Zoolander does not want me to stray off his narrow topic in his thread, so I am continiung the discussion in this apparently more appropriate place.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 05 July 2008 - 10:33 PM.

[Brainbox]

Zoolander .... yahdiyadiyah ....

Although I agree with you on this, there's also another aspect attached to it. Depending on cultural background, family environment, education, etc. people response differently to civilisational value's that are generally accepted as being important. These responses do not indicate a different position towards these value's, just a different individual reaction. Nothing more or less. It becomes more difficult, as in this case, when people judge each other using these superficial responses, regardless the underlying value's.

I know Zoolander as a good guy with good intentions, although a bit rough-edged sometimes. But I'm an European, almost "Britishish" politely , Zoolander is Australian and you are ...?. Don't let these superficial backgrounds stand in the way of a good objective discussion.

Edited by brainbox, 05 July 2008 - 02:32 PM.

[eternaltraveler]

Zoolander is Australian...

bunch of escaped convicts they are

[thefirstimmortal]

Shanon, you posted in the thread "Mine is longer than yours", the folllowing post

I thought the title funny, and not out of place even in a family forum. It was clear to me that life was being measured, and I think the issue of the boomer generation becoming competitive with life-span instead of the accumulation of materialistic toys, is a highly relevant topic, it is something we in the extreme life extension community should be able to tap into.

Oh, and for any children or adults reading this, penis size does not matter for sexual pleasure, fulfillment, or procreation. It is a myth, that should be covered in a different thread if there is a continued interest in the matter for any of our members.

I also hope Cnorwood is not offended by the sarcasm, and will reiterate within this thread my feeling that we should be treating each other with respect even when we disagree, per our ImmInst posting guidelines.

I have shifted the post so that I may answer portions of this without crowding the bounds set forth by Zoolander. Will get to it as soon as I can.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 05 July 2008 - 10:46 PM.

[zoolander]

Bill, believe it or not, your perception or opinion of something is not the only one. How should I moderate here? Should I moderate for the majority or should I moderate for one old fashioned prude?

We're in the new millennium mate, double-entendres are so common place that you can't pick up a newspaper/magazine or watch free to air/pay TV without seeing or hearing them. They are so common place that I don't know of too many people who are offended by them but I do know of some who will state that they are offended to try and control a situation. Hence, I didn't have a problem using the title.

Edited by zoolander, 05 July 2008 - 11:20 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

I'd say that the thread is about free speech, and the free speech forum, and Zoolander initially moderating Ben-Aus, then you--then it became whether or not he was justified in initially moderating you, which some could see the reasons due to the posting that was against ImmInst guidelines. He also did not know of your history, but then you and he were upset with each other for a while, but then things were mostly rectified. He said he was sorry, you were (and still are) wanting some more.

For the record Shannon, I PMed Zoolander to let him know that he owed me no such apology. Beyond that I cannot share the contents of the conversation except to say that it appears in absence of this knowledge, you might have erroneously concluded that I snubbed his apology. Such is not the case.

But back to the thread being primarily about the Free Speech Forum as the title indicates, I went into Admin, after hearing from Justin and Elrond -and have put the Free Speech Forum, in the section of sub-forums under the parent Immortality Institute forum, as stipulated in the constitution. Now, if this still needs work, please let me know

It's not correct Shannon. The Constitution calls for the Forum to be a seperate forum. It was settled at the time of the debates surrounding the adoption that it would be seperate but equal and as fully functional as any other forum. I have paused on the issue because I wish to read every debate we had on the matter as to refresh my memory in case someone wishes to dipute what the original intent of the framers were. As you yourself have noted however, you placed it in a sub-forum under a Parent Forum. Free Speech is to be it's own parent forum with subforums.

(or Mind, and I've already asked him how to make it viewable in 'active topics') but I'm hoping that the initial thread topic is rectified.

Someone did advance the argument of a software that could make it so an individual could opt out of the free speech forum. That's a fair topic to discuss.

The thread also became a poignant place where you shared your own battle right now for life, and amazingly a portal to 4 years ago, and this cool guy Dave who has shown up and graced us with his humor (what is up with Australians, are they all so cool? )

Yeah, Yeah, what are the odds of Dave just showing up outta the blue like that?

more to follow Shannon.

[zoolander]

I'd say that the thread is about free speech, and the free speech forum, and Zoolander initially moderating Ben-Aus

I moderated the post by Ben but I challenge anyone to prove that I moderated this thread in free speech. I would not have moderated the post in free speech. My moderation actions are traceable in the logs. Can someone in admin please look back to verify where it was moderated. If I moderated it in free speech then I would like to know as it was not my intention.

Edited by zoolander, 05 July 2008 - 11:38 PM.

[Shannon Vyff]

Hey, I made Free Speech a full Forum, when I saw that the constitution called for that , so this matter had been rectified before today's post.

Yeah, on penis size--I have to re-instate that it is a myth that one's size gives pleasure or affords any procreative benefit. I also initially realized that the thread, 'Mine is longer than yours' meant lifespan and felt it was appropriate in regards to our posting guidelines.

Zoolander, yes, you are correct--this is copied from the Admin logs, and pasted here:

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupport
Topic ID: 22844 29-Jun 2008, 03:19 AM"

__________________________________

(--and where is Dave now ?)

[zoolander]

Zoolander, yes, you are correct--this is copied from the Admin logs, and pasted here:

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupport
Topic ID: 22844 29-Jun 2008, 03:19 AM"

I should have ask for this earlier. Perhaps I did. It certainly would have answered the following

Oh, my apologies Zoolander, the post wasn’t originally posted in the Freedom Forum??? Where was it originally posted? The topic was started by Ben on May 24, 2008 at 12:15 pm, and was closed by you on May 26, 2008 at 3:49. So you claim that someone else moved it there in those 2 days. If my memory serves me, only leaders and navigators can move the topics, would that be correct? If it wasn’t moved by you, whom might have moved it?

and then the following

I would like to clarify a few things:

1. It has been said that my original topic was created somewhere else other than the free speech forum. This, I believe, is not true. I haven't a perfect memory so I cannot be 100% sure that this is the case, I am however extremely confident.

I moved the topic for a reason. I respect free speech. I guess the transaction, as registered in the administration logs, cannot be questioned. Unlike your "extreme confidence" at the time Ben

[Shannon Vyff]

Our human memories are fallible, but that is why we've developed the technologies that we have to augment them

[Prometheus]

Yeah, on penis size--I have to re-instate that it is a myth that one's size gives pleasure or affords any procreative benefit.

That's the comfort of those who are less well endowed or consider themselves so. In reality, a larger organ offers numerous advantages over a smaller one, not least of which is the physiological effect it has on the female when she sees it, and her brain's sexual association areas say, "wow". Indeed, penile length is correlated to serum testosterone, which supports the development of important physical sexual attraction characteristics such as muscularity, narrow hips and broad shoulders and psychological ones such as confidence and aggression. Of course, all these things are relative as a reasonably endowed caucasian appears ordinary next to our genetically gifted West African brothers, which is where Porsche's, Centurion cards, and other such equalizing paraphernalia come in.

[Shannon Vyff]

mygene, please provide some links to studies...

Here is one: http://www.livescien...enis_myths.html

This is a nice overview on the subject at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....size#Micropenis

It seems the only case there may be a hormonal imbalance, is with a "micropenis" which effects a very small percentage of the population at .6%, although when surveyed 12% of men think their penis is "too small", due mainly to psychological issues that develop through being raised in their respective culture.

Even a man with a micropenis can be a superb lover, and get a woman pregnant. A penis is not needed for orgasm, (in fact orgasm from the rubbing of the clitoris, is from the pelvic bone), a penis is also not needed to be 'turned on'. Some lesbian women say 'wow' with their woman lover, but some heterosexual women say 'wow' with their small penised male lover. I even have anecdotal evidence-- my personal experience. I had sex with a man who had a smaller than a 3 inch penis, and he was one of my best lovers--muscular, romantic, sexy as hell. I also have a husband with a larger than average penis, I love him too, he is sexy--I don't 'key-off' on his penis, his eyes, smile, muscles, intelligence and kindness --turn me on.

Also, please read the sections on penis sizes and race, you are espousing a general misconception.

Really this should be in a different thread though

[thefirstimmortal]

Zoolander, you wrote

I moderated the post by Ben but I challenge anyone to prove that I moderated this thread in free speech. I would not have moderated the post in free speech. My moderation actions are traceable in the logs. Can someone in admin please look back to verify where it was moderated. If I moderated it in free speech then I would like to know as it was not my intention.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here Zoolander, but not really going to let you revise history either. Let's assume that you erroneously censored the thread, or that you properly censored the thread elsewhere and placed it (or someone else placed it) in the free speech forum. At some point the thread was properly placed into the free speech forum, and you were made well aware of the constitutional provisions of the free speech forum, and yet you still refused to unlock the thread.

My statement

QUOTE
You claim that you understand the purpose of the Free Speech Forum, and wouldn't have closed the topic there. Great, no matter where the post may or may not have been, you clearly know it is currently in the Free Speech Forum. And since you are the one who closed the topic and locked it out, you're going to grab your keys, march right down and unlock it. Right?

Your response

No.

That I know of Zoolander, I thought that we were getting past this issue. I mean, you clearly did wrong in this instance, but the spot light is starting to shine not so much on you individual actions per say, but the lack of protection from the abuses. Members are complaining, mostly in private that leadership doesn't really have their backs.

[thefirstimmortal]

Hey, I made Free Speech a full Forum, when I saw that the constitution called for that , so this matter had been rectified before today's post.

No Shannon, it has not. It is not a full forum. By way of example, Community is a Full Forum, Health and Nutrition is likewise a full forum. Science and Technology, as well as Society and Philosophy. In those main forums there are smaller subcategories of forums, 4 in comunity, 6 in society and philosophy ect, ect. Go back and check, you should note the difference.

Zoolander, yes, you are correct--this is copied from the Admin logs, and pasted here:

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupport
Topic ID: 22844 29-Jun 2008, 03:19 AM"

Wrong Administration log. That is My repost of Ben-Aus original post that was moved. Your not in the ballpark, but let me go and get the relevant data that you are going to need.

[thefirstimmortal]

The correct thread, the thread that started all of this
http://www.imminst.o...ist-t22181.html

You will note that Ben started it May 24th, 2008 at 12:15pm, and it was closed or censored on May 26, 2008 at 3:49. So those two days, you want to check the logs out.
And you should also note that inspite of the fact it's the free speech forum, not only has Zoolander not unlocked the thread, but no other leader has even bothered to so much as address the issue. It remains a monument to the disprect that the Free Speech forum is afforded in general.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 06 July 2008 - 01:47 PM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Zoolander, I can't believe you of all people wanna go down this path again. First of all, you're well aware of the logs, why didn't you get them yourself when I questioned you on the matter? Why are you all of a sudden asking for the logs?
You wrote

I moved the topic for a reason. I respect free speech. I guess the transaction, as registered in the administration logs, cannot be questioned. Unlike your "extreme confidence" at the time Ben

Well so far with respect to the Administrative logs, all we have learned is that Shannon looked up the wrong one. And if you respected free speech you wouldn't have censored so much of it. I'm not sure you really wanna keep these topics alive Zoolander, like I said, they were dyin down and you're just pouring gas on it. But now we gotta flame going, someone wanna pass the marshmellows?

Zoolander, yes, you are correct--this is copied from the Admin logs, and pasted here:

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupport
Topic ID: 22844 29-Jun 2008, 03:19 AM"

I should have ask for this earlier. Perhaps I did. It certainly would have answered the following

Oh, my apologies Zoolander, the post wasn’t originally posted in the Freedom Forum??? Where was it originally posted? The topic was started by Ben on May 24, 2008 at 12:15 pm, and was closed by you on May 26, 2008 at 3:49. So you claim that someone else moved it there in those 2 days. If my memory serves me, only leaders and navigators can move the topics, would that be correct? If it wasn’t moved by you, whom might have moved it?

and then the following

I would like to clarify a few things:

1. It has been said that my original topic was created somewhere else other than the free speech forum. This, I believe, is not true. I haven't a perfect memory so I cannot be 100% sure that this is the case, I am however extremely confident.

I moved the topic for a reason. I respect free speech. I guess the transaction, as registered in the administration logs, cannot be questioned. Unlike your "extreme confidence" at the time Ben

[Prometheus]

On the relationship between testosterone and penis size:

http://eje-online.or.../full/154/1/125
http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

I can't find a study to support the "wow" factor of visual cue vs female sexual arousal based on viewing different sized phallus' (I don't think it has been done) but anecdotal evidence from stripping clubs suggests there is a relationship..

And of course technique and enthusiasm go a long way (perhaps the longest) but I am referring to sexual arousal pre-commencement of sexual activity. All other things being equal, a female will prefer a well endowed male just like she would be expected to prefer other aesthetically pleasing features.

Race vs size: there is no specific study that I can cite. However there are population studies where average sizes differ italian>iranian>indian. The information is there for anyone determined to dig it up. I'm not particularly enthused about having my daughter walk in on me whilst I'm searching pubmed using the terms "penis", etc. (LOL) But I did come across a study that found a strong correlation between index finger size and penis length ( http://www.ncbi.nlm....ogdbfrom=pubmed ) LOL.. (its not foot size, its index finger size)
... now that Da Vinci painting makes sense..

[thefirstimmortal]

Open Letter to King Cnorwood,
Dear King Cnorwood,
A member here has informed me that you are ill and suggests that is the reason that you have not responded to my posts. I check to see whose on periodically, I've seen your name in the active column hours at a time, but perhaps your well enough to read but don't feel well enough to construct posts. At any rate, I shall patiently wait for your health to return so that you might be well enough to answer my posts.
Now, I want you to know, I do have some empathy for you. No one knows better than I how difficult it is to post when your sick. It has been suggested to me that I have been too hard on you, as well as Zoolander
Why, we started this discourse a week ago. Actually my battle started with Zoolander. With Zoolanders permission I'm going to post the following, although I was saving it to make another point with Shannon...
Zoolander QUOTE

I am quite prepare to discuss any issues that you have with me as long as you hold off going for the throat. I'm trying to be as constructive as possible. It's kinda hard being constructive when you playing hard ball. I don't mind playing hard ball either but I don't think that it's going to help here.

My return QUOTE

OK, this is the comic relief part. Seriously, I got up Saturday morning, went through my day, after 15 16 hours I figured I would come here to end my night by looking up some of the cryonics legal work I posted a few years back. Ran across the constitutional issues in the free speech forum I set up with Laz, Mind, Bruce, ect back in 2002. Wasn't really looking to deal with all this bullshit, I got lung cancer and my prognosis is that I'm not going to make it past October. But yet for over the past 24 hours through all the vomiting and spitting up blood, and I'm still here battling you. I've been up for over 41 hours and I'm not really in the kinda shape that I would consider this hard ball. Hell, I thought I was being kinda soft because of the shape I'm in. Really Dawg, you should see how I grapple when I'm in good shape.
Live Long and Well
William Constitution O'Rights

That was a week ago King Cnorwood, now I'm in the hospital getting chemo treatments. I'm not doing nearly as well as I was last week, so I get it buddy. I do know how hard it is. I'm pulling for you, I'm cheering for you and wishing for your speedy recovery. As soon as your well enough to, come in drop in and say hello. Just make sure you drop in before I drop dead.
Live Long and Well
William O'Rights

[thefirstimmortal]

Bill, believe it or not, your perception or opinion of something is not the only one. How should I moderate here? Should I moderate for the majority or should I moderate for one old fashioned prude?

Check
That Zoolander is the correct response. Your absolutely correct Zoolander, my perception or my offense to the topic header shouldn't be enough to have it censored. And are we afraid here to call it what it is, censorship? And before I came along, you were not even pondering questions like "How should I censor?" "Should I censor for the majority or for the one old fashioned prude?" Your now beginning to think, because before you were just acting on nothing more than what you wanted censor. I think you might be making wonderful progress.
And for the record, I checked this morning. I guess it's not so much that I have a small penis, it's just that it appears so small because it's located between a set of enormous big brass ball.
Oh, and Shannon, Size matters.

Edited by thefirstimmortal, 07 July 2008 - 06:00 AM.

[thefirstimmortal]

Can anyone tell me what the black dot is in the red (orange?) envolope that is supposed to mean "Hot Topic (No New)". And no new what?

[Shannon Vyff]

No new posts. Some forums count how many new topics each thread has, and give the top percentage the topic of 'hot topic', some forums a person must designate them as such, I'm not sure what ours does.

Zoolander can't look at the logs with in Admin, I copied that to put it in here, and looked again to see if there were any other dates, this is all I found:

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update Bad Members List, List of trolls, people who ejaculate messy unsupport
Topic ID: 22844 29-Jun 2008, 03:19 AM 122.248.156.226"

"zoolander Moved a topic from Immortality Update to Free Speech Immortality Update "Free" The Free Speech Forum!
Topic ID: 22842 29-Jun 2008, 03:13 AM 122.248.156.226"

(Bruce is in the top moderator spot, having the most actions, second is Zoolander and at a close third is The First Immortal)

I do think I made Free Speech a Forum now to your liking now, no? Give feedback, and I can further amend it.

Oh, and male penis size doesn't matter, women go for (1) money over looks, and (2) looks over size, and (3) they take love and a partner (male or female) that thinks they are hot (thats sexy) and likes to please them. There are some studies on the second two points, here are a few I found in a quick search: (money over looks) http://www.news.com....51-1702,00.html and (more on the myth of size) http://www.askmen.co...ve_secrets.html and no one really wants to start a debate about the nature vs. nurture of lesbians, and regardless of why they are the way they are--the don't care about male penis size, see point three in the sentence that initiates this paragraph, they care about a lover who pleases them and thinks they are hot.


This guy, with the world's largest penis is not at all sexy-- freaky really and would have a hard time finding a girl he could have intercourse with, without seriously harming her: http://www.news.com....51-1702,00.html

[thefirstimmortal]

But I'm an European, almost "Britishish" politely , Zoolander is Australian and you are ...?.

American, Northeast. Spent most of my life within a distance of 6 miles or so from the heart of Sanford Maine. It's a wonderful place to live

[Prometheus]

women go for (1) money over looks, and (2) looks over size, and (3) they take love and a partner (male or female) that thinks they are hot (thats sexy) and likes to please them.

Agreed, that tends to be the case generally, however, the money over looks thing depends on the woman's age and personal affluence. The younger women place less weight on the color of your Amex card as do the women who don't require that sort of provider.

[zoolander]

I'll say one last thing Bill, I do think and I do try and act with the institute in mind. My intentions are good. However, I admit, I do not have an understanding of free speech as you do. I'm starting to learn a hell of a lot more about it though.
You're are a very intelligent person Bill and I also believe that your intentions are very good. You have really pushed the envelope here and that is, I now realise, a wonderful thing. It has added such great momentum to some issues that eventually needed to be discussed and rectified. Importantly, you have challenged me. Not just my actions but you have changed the way I think about how I act here as a moderator. There are also some other qualities about myself I believe you have made me consider so thank you Bill. Thank you.

Hence, at this point I would like to respectfully take a back seat and listen to what you have to say. Not that I haven't been listening instead I would like to openly step down and admit that I am no position to argue points that I still have a lot to learn about.

[zoolander]

please note that the thread in question has now been reopened. It was closed and then placed into the free speech forums by mistake. I understand that moderating threads in the free speech forum is not permitted and that is what initially prevented me from reopenng the thread however, considering that the item was placed into free speech as a closed topic, it does not provide a space where people can discuss the topic freely. Hence, I consider this action undoing/moderation of my own action

[zoolander]

re. the small penis size.....I think living at home with your parents is more likely to turn women away.

[Shannon Vyff]

re. the small penis size.....I think living at home with your parents is more likely to turn women away.

hah!

(unless said guy, is part of an extremely wealthy family, a teen and the girl is a teen, or living in a country like India or Japan where it is normal for a man to live with parents until marriage in his thirties )

[thefirstimmortal]

Hi Zoolander,
I don't think I ever questioned your intentions, just your actions. But I'm glad your starting to understand this issue. And I hope you are beginning to see that there is a world of difference between force and power.
I look forward to more discussions in the future with you.
Live long and Well Zoolander.

I'll say one last thing Bill, I do think and I do try and act with the institute in mind. My intentions are good. However, I admit, I do not have an understanding of free speech as you do. I'm starting to learn a hell of a lot more about it though.
You're are a very intelligent person Bill and I also believe that your intentions are very good. You have really pushed the envelope here and that is, I now realise, a wonderful thing. It has added such great momentum to some issues that eventually needed to be discussed and rectified. Importantly, you have challenged me. Not just my actions but you have changed the way I think about how I act here as a moderator. There are also some other qualities about myself I believe you have made me consider so thank you Bill. Thank you.

Hence, at this point I would like to respectfully take a back seat and listen to what you have to say. Not that I haven't been listening instead I would like to openly step down and admit that I am no position to argue points that I still have a lot to learn about.

[David]

Group Hug!

I didn't just show up Shannon, I come by here a lot. I tend to read more than anything as I generally have very little to offer on THE TOPIC of longevity, except for behavioural stuff, like don't drink, don't smoke, don't tram surf and try to keep society free and open to discourse of the speechie kind.

On that topic, our fine friend Zoolander is a Punk musician. Punk musicianship being about freedom of expression. Or it was when I was a youngster and Punk was real (I'm 44). Mate, check out the Sex Pistols, the Celibate Rifles, even the greats of ACDC and Midnight Oil coped the label once upon a time. Imagine if the puritans of the age had gotten their way then? You do get free speech my friend, you just weren't aware of it while you were experiencing it.

I hope you are a REAL punk Zoolander, and not a pale imitation like the current white middle class suburban soft c#$k product of the capitalist machine rubbishy crop. Vomit on your audience, swear at them and advocate anarchy. That's what free speech in its purest form is all about. Anarchy.

Free the speech!
Free the Speech!

Hang on, somebody did that already........... what can I get upset about?
Free the Whales!
Free the Whales!

Bloody Japanese, killing our wales...................

Dave

[Prometheus]

re. the small penis size.....I think living at home with your parents is more likely to turn women away.