Sceletium tortuosum a.k.a kanna
ikaros 02 Jul 2008
I've been reading about user experiences of its similarity to a low dose MDMA which led me to compare mesembrine's molecular structure to that of MDMA's. Overall they aren't certainly identical, but there are some interesting similarities. Sceletium isn't hallucinogenic, whereas MDMA is.
Anyone more informed on sceletium's alkaloid pharmacology? What effects did it have for you, how would you compare them to other psychoactive compounds?
Edited by ikaros, 02 July 2008 - 04:53 PM.
dr_chaos 02 Jul 2008
Source please. I googled whether mesembrine is a pde4 inhibitor myself some time ago and haven't found anything worth reading. There is an article on wikipedia, but they can't cite sources either( only some dead link to some non existent study).As much as I am informed sceletium (more precisely active alkaloid mesembrine) has been scientifically confirmed to posess serotonin reuptake activity and to be a selective phospodiesterase-4 inhibitor.
tjcbs 02 Jul 2008
Galantamine 03 Jul 2008
It is way more euphoric than simple SSRI action would suggest.
Based on its structure alone, the methoxy's would lend towards a more hallucinogenic effect.
ikaros 03 Jul 2008
Source please. I googled whether mesembrine is a pde4 inhibitor myself some time ago and haven't found anything worth reading. There is an article on wikipedia, but they can't cite sources either( only some dead link to some non existent study).As much as I am informed sceletium (more precisely active alkaloid mesembrine) has been scientifically confirmed to posess serotonin reuptake activity and to be a selective phospodiesterase-4 inhibitor.
The article's link is yes dead. Although I've come across a discussion on another forum when apparently the study was still available. The logic behind PDE4 inhibition was that it is structurally very similar to rolipram (potent PDE4 inhibitor, antidepressant, antipsychotic, neuroprotectant, LTP enhancer) and when several minor chemical modifications were made to mesembrine the compound showed increased selectivity for PDE4.
FWIW PDE4 inhibiton would certainly elucidate some aspects of sceletium's effects.
ikaros 03 Jul 2008
Does anyone know if concommitant use with a ssri would actually be dangerous? Lots of sites warn about it, but I think the concern is theoretical.
Combining two SSRIs is indeed a risky move. Although some more "innovative" psychiatrists are already practicing this.
Yearningforyears 05 Jul 2008
I was on rhodiola for a while and noticed immediate synergistic effects when starting sertralin. Perhaps sceltium has a similar mechanism (to that of the rhodiola / sertralin combo):
One way of enhancing transmission fast (modulating receptor sensitivity, being an agonist or both) and another to inhibit serotonin reuptake, boosting the effects even more.
sceletium effects for me: Slightly sedated, calm and content, positive, a bit dizzy, wanting to have a comfortable time or just talking to people. Just relaxing but very pleasurable.
It´s similar to the rhodiola / SSRI but gives a bigger body load, whereas sertralin creates more body agitation (wanting to do many things. sort of a motivational enhancer). rhodiola / sertralin combo is not as sedating as sceletium alone. It feels more like normal enthusiastic happiness about everything that is and used to feel good. (not on it any longer though, but effects are still around).
So for me sceletium is more of a bob marley-sertralin.
ikaros 13 Jul 2008
Edited by ikaros, 13 July 2008 - 08:06 AM.
focus83 15 Jul 2008
And by the way, I felt almost no effects from Kanna. Neither anxiolytic effects nor any dream-like states as cited on wikipedia.
Reformed-Redan 03 Mar 2013
I'd like to point out that only FERMENTED kanna will have the mesembrine content. I took the extract (not fermented) and the fermented, guess what? Big difference. Also, this is a really really strong serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a realtively short half life (doesn't sound too good). I havent seen pharms with this potency even. I took mesembrine for about a month alone. Super for mood and anxiety/depression. Just make sure you taper off slowley because you will feel really shitty after you don't maintain the potent sert re-inhibition.
spermidine 04 Mar 2013
Reformed-Redan 04 Mar 2013
Edited by redan, 04 March 2013 - 02:32 AM.
abelard lindsay 04 Mar 2013
Reformed-Redan 04 Mar 2013
Yes, it would be with the mood benfits. But, I'm afraid it would afect dopamine too much with all the SERT inhibition.Have any of you taken this with Forskolin? I would imagine it would make a rather strong CILTEP stack.
spermidine 05 Mar 2013
Edited by spermidine, 05 March 2013 - 02:08 AM.
Mescalito 05 Mar 2013
protoject 05 Mar 2013
leftside 05 Mar 2013
Reformed-Redan 05 Mar 2013
Reformed-Redan 06 Mar 2013
I got my kanna from "moodandmind." You can try different sellers.That could be the case. Do you recommend a good source?
leftside 06 Mar 2013
KoolK3n 11 Apr 2013
What's your daily dose? Since it has a short half life, what's the recommended frequency per day? I'm just started my trail run today at 230mg and am gonna take another dose tonight. I got mine from mind and mood as well.This is a quality thread.
I'd like to point out that only FERMENTED kanna will have the mesembrine content. I took the extract (not fermented) and the fermented, guess what? Big difference. Also, this is a really really strong serotonin reuptake inhibitor with a realtively short half life (doesn't sound too good). I havent seen pharms with this potency even. I took mesembrine for about a month alone. Super for mood and anxiety/depression. Just make sure you taper off slowley because you will feel really shitty after you don't maintain the potent sert re-inhibition.
Edited by KoolK3n, 11 April 2013 - 07:10 PM.
Reformed-Redan 11 Apr 2013
Douggers 12 Apr 2013
I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.
Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?
Reformed-Redan 12 Apr 2013
Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.
Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?
Douggers 13 Apr 2013
Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.
Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?
Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?
Reformed-Redan 13 Apr 2013
Not after immediate dosing. But, after chronic dosing (1 month @ 200-500mg) the crash was really bad. Just a general really crappy feeling. Kanna has very strong global SRI inhibiting properties; immediate cessation is detrimental.Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?
Regular fermented powder. I also did my own fermentation of 4:1 powder with similar results as the fermented powder. Effects are like an immediate mood boost; but, go away after a couple of hours, which kind of sucks.I did 200mg in the morning only. At 1-3PM I'd start feeling the SRI activity weaken. Might want to redose at 2PM with your lunch. Should feel the effects immediately.
Redan, how'd you find the quality of moodandmind's kanna?
Did you get the regular powder or the 4:1?
Interesting. Did you experience any sort of crash?