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The Twelve Tribes: an emerging culture?
#31
Posted 17 October 2008 - 03:51 AM
I don't think that what others believe will send them to a firey hell. There are many paths to divine truths, including science (Michael La Torra, an Alcor member-- is a Buddhist monk running a retreat this weekend in AZ, and also a staunch transhumanist and scientist). I was checking this thread yes to see if you wrote, but have little time (there are so many threads I had to pass in the "active topics". Really. Many I wanted to post in, read about....but) --I have to write a story about "good touch" for a class on Sunday that will also be covering "bad touch" (the human sexuality class for K-2nd I'm teaching on Sundays at my church) I'm also being interviewed tomorrow for NBC's "Meet the Doctors" on how to do CR while raising children (I'll post it in our CR forum if it goes well, I'll be live on video for it). I got back from running a fundraiser tonight-- I'm teaching tomorrow--and two of my three children are going for sleep-overs :-) (one with a family that speaks only Spanish, and one with a Wiccan ) But, Elijah, you and I and billions of other sentient human beings on this planet are quite different in what they believe. I'd love to have others believe that cryonics is a common sense option, that I don't believe it will happen--but since there is a chance, it is unfathomable to not do it.
#32
Posted 18 October 2008 - 01:31 AM
I've done this to the best of my ability.Elijah, people are different and you need to respect them, learn from-ponder--their beliefs.
Sorry to hear you don't have the time to listen to that podcast. I think it would make for an interesting topic for discussion in your church. You should seriously consider it. I'm sure it will raise some eyebrows.I was checking this thread yes to see if you wrote, but have little time (there are so many threads I had to pass in the "active topics". Really. Many I wanted to post in, read about....but) --I have to write a story about "good touch" for a class on Sunday that will also be covering "bad touch" (the human sexuality class for K-2nd I'm teaching on Sundays at my church)
Sounds good. I'll be sure to watch it.I'm also being interviewed tomorrow for NBC's "Meet the Doctors" on how to do CR while raising children (I'll post it in our CR forum if it goes well, I'll be live on video for it).
That's where we're different at. You're putting your time and energy into a chance; whereas, I'm putting mine into a for sure thing. It will definitely take place.But, Elijah, you and I and billions of other sentient human beings on this planet are quite different in what they believe. I'd love to have others believe that cryonics is a common sense option, that I don't believe it will happen--but since there is a chance, it is unfathomable to not do it.
#33
Posted 18 October 2008 - 05:22 AM
I can listen to the podcast, but I don't use unverifiable dogma. I put neither time nor energy into that, chance takes nothing--dogma takes most every waking moment of one's life.
#34
Posted 18 October 2008 - 09:55 PM
You lack faith. God's Kingdom on earth and the immortality that will come along with it are for certain.Also nothing is for sure in this world.
Sorry to hear things didn't go well. Honesty and accuracy is always the best policy.The interview did not go so well, as in I have no idea if they will use it or not--she wanted me to be more "extreme" was asking if I had my kids do CR,
I'm sure you don't let your kids do CR, but do you teach them to not eat greedily? I'm sure you must present an excellent example of healthy eating to your children.was asking if I had my kids do CR
Let me ask you the same question I asked the Twelve Tribes father of 7. Have your kids ever been inside a McDonalds and do you let them eat junk foods with all those refined sugars, artificial colorings and flavors, etc?
That's what living a devout life is all about. You got to be very serious if you want to enter the kingdom of God on earth and live forever.I can listen to the podcast, but I don't use unverifiable dogma. I put neither time nor energy into that, chance takes nothing--dogma takes most every waking moment of one's life.
#35
Posted 19 October 2008 - 10:01 PM
Yes I've been in McDonald's, but they eat salads with grilled chicken, get the yogurt fruit parfait for dessert and such, sometimes I have to eat fastfood when traveling--I just teach them to make healthy choices, we don't eat fries
My dogma, is trying to educate people about why cryonics may work, or how we humans may end aging--our actual possibilities. If any God is out there, they will let occur what they want--if there is not, well we may live long enough to figure that all out. I spend every waking moment doing this, and if it in line with a God's wants for humanity, then I'm helping if not, then that God likely will not be smiting billions of people that didn't believe in one specific version of "it".
Anyway, if seen good parents and bad parents of all religions and in atheists. It seems parenting classes help, and having a support group of other parents in your community. Also, listening to one's elders who have raised children into productive adults.
#36
Posted 20 October 2008 - 02:34 PM
Everybody wants to leave and go elsewhere. Nobody wants to stay behind and do the hard work. How about transforming the planet earth into a peaceful, environmentally sound and pollution free Utopia.I would much rather prefer to be off in space terraforming other planets or such like the Mormons
You can only serve one Master. I've found the God of the Bible to be superior to them all.I do not discount Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Shiva or for that matter the beliefs of Buddhists
I don't give the junk food dealers a penny. Any money you give them helps them stay in business.Yes I've been in McDonald's, but they eat salads with grilled chicken, get the yogurt fruit parfait for dessert and such, sometimes I have to eat fastfood when traveling--I just teach them to make healthy choices, we don't eat fries
I like to tell anyone who will listen that it will take living by every word that comes from God's mouth to achieve greater than normal lifespans and immortality.My dogma, is trying to educate people about why cryonics may work, or how we humans may end aging--our actual possibilities.
I would want to listen to what the Bible says on childrearing if I were ever to raise children. http://www.gnmagazin.../moralchild.aspAnyway, if seen good parents and bad parents of all religions and in atheists. It seems parenting classes help, and having a support group of other parents in your community. Also, listening to one's elders who have raised children into productive adults.
#37
Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:26 PM
I guess they are, if you neglect the fact that they've been brainwashed from birth to believe in an imaginary being. I don't think parents should have the right to brainwash their kids...Twelve Tribes children are mentally healthy too.Yes i have no doubt they're physically healthy, that's not my concern. My concern is their MENTAL HEALTH. It's clear that they're not getting a neutral education that will allow THEM to choose which belief to follow, but then again, civilization is so primitive that it doesn't bother with this problem yet; i hope it does someday. Stop brainwashing our new generations, let them THINK for themselves. One day, i hope, it will be a crime to brainwash children as they are nowadays.
#38
Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:15 PM
I prefer to encourage places like Mc Donald's to serve more healthy food.
Yeah, I agree that one should not brainwash a child, the child should be taught how to think for themselves--how to weigh evidence for themselves, how to analyze in a rational way.
#39
Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:51 AM
That means that children should not be made witness religious rituals like prayers, churchgoing and such. If one's parents believe in Santa Claus and talk about him and worship him ritually, the kids will be brainwashed to believe in Santa Claus too. Belief in Gods is in no way different.Yeah, I agree that one should not brainwash a child, the child should be taught how to think for themselves--how to weigh evidence for themselves, how to analyze in a rational way.
Edited by platypus, 21 October 2008 - 09:57 AM.
#40
Posted 21 October 2008 - 11:43 AM
So, I'm sure then, that you are equally opposed to the brainwashing and mind manipulation that occurs in the public schools and through television and computer games? Did you see my post on this here at http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=270679? Checkout the Pink Floyd song.I guess they are, if you neglect the fact that they've been brainwashed from birth to believe in an imaginary being. I don't think parents should have the right to brainwash their kids...
#41
Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:10 PM
But do you only teach them the parts of the Bible you like or understand due to your limited study, or do you leave the door open for them to gain a broader in depth knowledge that comes from intensive study, meditation and prayer?Yeah, I teach children the wisdoms from the Bible, not the hypocrisies
This is why you need to not give them any money or let your children patronize such places until they start serving healthy food instead of preying on the weaknesses of others - especially children.I prefer to encourage places like Mc Donald's to serve more healthy food.
HE has a plan and is working it out. Be patient and wait on the one true Master.then that master would be caring for things better
Yeah, but this is better done by minds with a solid biblical education.Yeah, I agree that one should not brainwash a child, the child should be taught how to think for themselves--how to weigh evidence for themselves, how to analyze in a rational way.
#42
Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:16 PM
It's the same thing with Ronald McDonald too. Where I'm from Ronald is a dummy who sits out on a park bench in front of McDonald's. Some days I feel like running up and kicking him off that bench. Is this sacrilegious or what?If one's parents believe in Santa Claus and talk about him and worship him ritually, the kids will be brainwashed to believe in Santa Claus too
Edited by elijah3, 21 October 2008 - 12:17 PM.
#43
Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:59 PM
I'm definetely not against education, it's a great antidote against superstitions of all kinds. If education is handled properly it will foster openness and critical thinking - giving people a rational worldview is hardly brainwashing. Television I cannot control and I doubt that computer games can be blamed for much.So, I'm sure then, that you are equally opposed to the brainwashing and mind manipulation that occurs in the public schools and through television and computer games?I guess they are, if you neglect the fact that they've been brainwashed from birth to believe in an imaginary being. I don't think parents should have the right to brainwash their kids...
#44
Posted 21 October 2008 - 07:24 PM
But, my children are welcome to go into as much depth as they want in the Old Testament and New Testament, as well as other ancient religious texts--to search for wisdom and meaning. A solid biblical education does not usually go hand in hand with a rational mind, but it certainly can--the Rev. Dr. Loehr at our church is quite proficient in ancient languages and texts and the Bible in particular--he also is a scholar with a solid reputation for research and rational thinking. I'm happy with many aspects of my children's upbringing, their public schools, our church, our greater community. In our house we talk about T.V.and computer games--we choose the educational things and analyze the ones made for entertainment, it is all part of being a balanced person in our society.
#45
Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:09 AM
Education for the masses is traiining for employment as wage slaves. This is not education handled properly at all. True, they want you to be open and critical sufficiently enough to perform the specialized task you're assigned. They're not interested in training you to upset the status quo, to be a disobedient wage slave, or to escape wage slavery all together.If education is handled properly it will foster openness and critical thinking
The system wants you to have a rational worldview as an obedient wage slave.giving people a rational worldview is hardly brainwashing
Come on platypus, I know you've heard of the computer game called Grand Theft Auto? http://www.mediafami.../20060614.shtmlI doubt that computer games can be blamed for much
#46
Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:35 AM
This is a very difficult task that few parents succeed at I believe. And, it's very difficult to monitor whether your children are making wise decisions to not purchase junk food from junk food peddlers.One can teach their children to think for themselves and make good decisions at fast food restaurants.
But how much death, disease, and weakened immune systems are they responsible for in the meantime?the chain has been working on offering healthy choices and they'll get better at it.
It is profitable for them to do this. They're not stupid and they're not losing any money. They achieve a very high level of favorable publicity by doing this. Even gangsters have been known to be charitable on occasion. They, like McDonald's, known they may need the support of the public to continue to do business.The Ronald McDonald Foundation helps many families who have children in hospitals with the medical bills
You're saying they're "welcome to" as if it is in their discretion to do so or not to do so. Children need parental support and encouragement to explore the Scriptures fully. You previously stated that you heavily influence your children with your secular humanist views. I interpret this to mean that you discourage your children from forming any serious belief in God, and from seriously studying the Bible and practicing what it teaches as a way of life.But, my children are welcome to go into as much depth as they want in the Old Testament and New Testament, as well as other ancient religious texts--to search for wisdom and meaning.
I can tell by his title that this man probably does not understand the Bible or practice it correctly.Rev. Dr. Loehr at our church is quite proficient in ancient languages and texts and the Bible in particular--he also is a scholar with a solid reputation for research and rational thinking.
I'm sure most people are until some major unexpected problem developes and they're caught by surprise. You always read about these children with what is called an excellent upbringing going bad.I'm happy with many aspects of my children's upbringing, their public schools, our church, our greater community
So, you do your best to influence your children to not watch T.V. programs or play computer games that are sexually exploitative or teach violence?In our house we talk about T.V.and computer games--we choose the educational things and analyze the ones made for entertainment, it is all part of being a balanced person in our society.
#47
Posted 22 October 2008 - 07:35 AM
I think home schooling is definetely inferior to a good school, public or private. This should be clear just from the socialisation-perspective, or do want to raise your kid to do organic farming on a secluded ranch waiting for Armageddon?Thanks for agreeing! It's all an obvious truth. I've noticed the same thing in children attending private schools.I agree with what Elijah says regarding the public education system. It teaches many kids about negative social pecking orders, bullying, lookism, wasted time and the reign of mediocrity. I have known a number of kids in my social circles whose parents home schooled them and they tend to be light years ahead of the average public school graduate. Quite a few of them got full scholarships, some even at Ivy League universities. I now scoff at the claim of public school administrators that you need to attend their system to learn to be a well rounded and social person. LOL
I grew up in Finland which has one of the best public schooling systems in the world. The public universities are not half bad eitheder, I managed to stay in school + university for a total of 26 yearsSame here!I realize not everyone (in fact most) people have the opportunity to home school. And a person in a decent school district who works hard can get a good education, but if I had kids I would not want to chance it.
#48
Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:54 PM
#49
Posted 23 October 2008 - 01:34 AM
The Twelve Tribes do a lot more than that. They're building a whole new culture to replace the existing one which is in the process of decaying and dying. They have cottage industries, construction companies, and cafes, and do a fair amount of evangelist outreach. They receive a lot of visitors so they can't be considered secluded.do want to raise your kid to do organic farming on a secluded ranch waiting for Armageddon?
I haven't read anything about the school system in Finland, but I bet there are flaws and weaknesses there too. Isn't the political climate in Finland about the same as in the Scandinavian countries?I grew up in Finland which has one of the best public schooling systems in the world.
#50
Posted 23 October 2008 - 07:41 PM
#51
Posted 24 October 2008 - 01:53 AM
Your son knows good music when he hears it. Tell him I said hi too. I've posted below another song by the Twelve Tribes about the falling away of some of the early Church. It's a sad song unfortunately. The song makes reference to Revelation 2:4,5. It should be noted that not all of the early Church fell away due to weaknesses of the flesh however. Many were put to death or imprisoned.Hah, this time while posting my 9 year-old son came in to read it, as I had the song playing.
I think I saw some of it in a You Tube video posted by Live Forever or someone else. If I remember correctly, the church running the Jesus camp were conservative right wing evangical protestants. Those people are not practicing the truth of the Scriptures and because of this they turn many away from Yahweh and Yahshua. The Twelve Tribes teach their children in a loving way. It's quite a bit different.Elijah, you watch Jesus Camp about the christian prostylitizing believing kids? (I took my kids to this when it was in the theatre
#52
Posted 24 October 2008 - 06:47 PM
#53
Posted 25 October 2008 - 11:25 AM
You teach your children better than I thought. Do you tell them to try to win over their opposition by setting a good example of tolerance and love for those who have opposing beliefs?--as a UU I try to have him respect other people's beliefs even if he does not believe them--respect the person and the wisdom from their religion.
This statement gives me hope you will eventually come to realize the truth of the matter.I said to the whole class that we don't know, we have evidence of evolution but there are still gaps that scientists are looking at. I affirmed Intelligent Design --that it could also be part of evolution.
You are obviously a highly educated person, but it's going to take communal sharing of all things while following the example of wisdom and love Yahshua showed us when He walked the earth to enter the future successfully. Begin looking into the history of the early Church in the book of Acts for how the future will look.I really do believe that we humans don't know everything and there are very big questions that we are still working on. (we've not had scientific inquiry very long, and only had written history for a few thousand years-- 90% of our "technological advances" have come about in the last mere 100 years, we are still in a "dark ages" compared to what the next few thousand years will be like IMO. In my future studies classes we do a lot of looking at history, before we even address what may be coming
Here's another song by the Twelve Tribes you might like.
If I can't convince you with biblical logic, may be the Twelve Tribes music will.
#54
Posted 30 October 2008 - 03:36 PM
I doubt that computer games can be blamed for much.
http://ca.news.yahoo...child_microsoftMicrosoft offers reward for missing Xbox gamer
Tue Oct 28, 5:13 PM
OTTAWA (AFP) - US software behemoth Microsoft has doubled a cash reward for information on the whereabouts of a Canadian boy who ran away from home after his father took away his Xbox game console, it said Tuesday.
Brandon Crisp, 15, took off on his bicycle from his Barrie, Ontario home on October 13 -- Canada's Thanksgiving holiday -- and rode east along an old rail line.
He has not been seen since.
His father told local media he had removed Brandon's Xbox, built by Microsoft, after noticing changes in behavior since Brandon started playing "Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare" online.
The boy started skipping school, stealing money and ignoring his studies, his father said.
A local newspaper, the family's Internet service provider and Child Find offered a 25,000-dollar (19,500-dollar US) reward for information leading to his return.
Microsoft topped it up with another 25,000 dollars, the company said Tuesday in an email to AFP, "hoping for his swift return."
"Like everyone, we are deeply worried about the disappearance of Brandon Crisp," the company said.
Exhaustive searches have not turned up a single clue beyond the boy's bicycle, found last week with a flat tire.
Police are said to be examining who Brandon played with online. "Law enforcement has contacted Microsoft about this matter and we are cooperating fully with them," said Microsoft.
On Sunday, 1,600 volunteer searchers packed up their reflective vests and ended their efforts to find him, while police stopped their air and water search.
In an interview with the daily Globe and Mail, the boy's father, Steve Crisp, said he had not known how important the gaming system was to his son and how he would react when it was taken away.
Experts commented that gamers may form bonds with fellow online players.
"This had become his identity, and I didn't realize how in-depth this was until I took his Xbox away," Steve Crisp told the Globe and Mail. "That's like cutting his legs off."
"This is such an issue that hits every parent out there, with video games that are starting to control our kids' lives," he said.
"I just took away his identity, so I can understand why he got so mad and took off. Before, I couldn't understand why he was taking off for taking his game away."
Now, Brandon's father says he just wants his son to come home.
http://news.yahoo.co...eo_game_lawsuitIn a statement released after the hearing, State Sen. Leland Yee, a child psychologist who wrote the 2005 law, cited studies that show violent games can be linked to aggression, anti-social behavior and desensitization to violence.
#55
Posted 30 October 2008 - 05:26 PM
#56
Posted 30 October 2008 - 11:19 PM
When that happens it's usually a part of one of those obviously false religions or one of those Bible based religions that wrongfully focuses on something in the Old Testament while excluding or misinterpreting the New Testament.Just about anything can be taken to excess (including religion which can also cause aggression and anti-social behavior depending on the religion),
You're not suggesting that it's possible for children use violent video games in a healthy way? Even if some children can use them with minimal negative side effects, what about those who are susceptible due to some weakness in character or background?that is a sad case--but it sounds the parents should have been helping the boy manage his time better, as well as how to be flexible when you are not getting your way...
#57
Posted 31 October 2008 - 11:45 PM
It's hard to believe, but they've been singing songs about how bad public schools are for developing young minds before Pink Floyd.Twelve Tribes children are mentally healthy too. There is no such thing as a neutral education. There's always a slant, a bias or a deficiency to it. Allowing children to choose which belief system to follow leads to confusion, unhappiness, death and destruction in too many instances.Yes i have no doubt they're physically healthy, that's not my concern. My concern is their MENTAL HEALTH. It's clear that they're not getting a neutral education that will allow THEM to choose which belief to follow, but then again, civilization is so primitive that it doesn't bother with this problem yet; i hope it does someday. Stop brainwashing our new generations, let them THINK for themselves. One day, i hope, it will be a crime to brainwash children as they are nowadays.
Many view a public school education as nothing more than brainwashing and training for life in the factory and police state that stifles creative thinking and love for fellow man. Think of the brutality, bullying and pecking order system of the public schools. Some look at public schools in the same light as prisons.
Would you rather see children subjected to the violent and sexually deviant programming from television and video games? I think the harmful effects of television and computer games on children is a scientifically established fact isn't it? I would think you would be for escaping this madness.
Public schools bring to mind Pink Floyd's song "Another brick in the Wall." The Twelve Tribes have the answer for escaping the wall.
Pete Seeger - What did you learn in school?
Pete Seeger - Little Boxes
#58
Posted 08 November 2008 - 01:26 AM
http://news.yahoo.co...PZqWEc1tU3gcbYFSurfing violent websites linked to violent behavior
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Young people exposed to violent media are more likely to lash out violently themselves, new research published in Pediatrics shows.
"Our findings add to the growing evidence that violence in the media is related to aggressive behavior, including seriously violent behavior among youths," Dr. Michele L. Ybarra of Internet Solutions for Kids in Santa Ana, California and her colleagues report. "Reduction in youths' exposure to violent media should be viewed as an important aspect of violence prevention."
More reason why we need to home school our children and keep them away from television and violent computer games like the Twelve Tribes do.
#59
Posted 24 November 2008 - 01:30 AM
#60
Posted 24 November 2008 - 04:07 AM
Twelve Tribes children are mentally healthy too. There is no such thing as a neutral education. There's always a slant, a bias or a deficiency to it. Allowing children to choose which belief system to follow leads to confusion, unhappiness, death and destruction in too many instances.
Nothing good is pain free. Not allowing children exposure to other beliefs is much worse than any confusion and unhappiness they may initially have, causing ignorance, fear, misunderstanding of their fellow man... and I suspect isolation of this sort is much more likely to cause death and destruction than its specific lack, especially if and when these people do encounter the real world and other ideas as adults and start to question their own beliefs. They will be completely unprepared for this.
IMO the main reason to isolate children like this is fear of them losing their beliefs, although the people doing this may use other excuses to hide this fact even from themselves. No belief that can maintain itself only by ignorance is worth having. If you can't answer your own children's innocent questions about your religion as compared to others, your beliefs are built on sand so to speak. Plus, for the sake of the entire world, belief systems should mix in the open and be questioned and tested, so the best prevail and spread. Isolation can only increase the world's problems, remember not every group choosing isolation to foster belief systems is going to be harmless.
- Tracy
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