Why not simply do a Brain transplant?
Heliotrope 12 Jul 2008
BUT THE THING IS: immortalists already take good care of their health and may never need an organ transplant in their abdomenal and thoractic chambers. The brain however, is usually the last organ to fail. Most people get sucked to death by some other organ failure and diseases. What if they reach 85 years old and everything in the body, heart , liver, etc are all old and frail like the rest of the body but our brains are still okay, why not just grow a "brainless clone ", then open the head of the clone and tranplant our brain in? brain is an organ afterall, can't be that much harder than a heart transplant. Then the old 85 year old brain will be in 20 year old body, in a new cloned adult body/shell. This scheme can be used and tranferred for centuries through many clone bodies. this will buy more time for mind uploading, cryo, nano techs etc
As a safety net in case the surgery goes wrong, have the Alcor , CI people stand-by when the brain tranplant process occurs, then they can take over and ice the brain if the surgeons mess up, take the brain/"you" to Arizona and do the neuro-preservation, then soak it in cold liquid nitrogen in Dewar & wait for revival , OR keep brain on warm life-support to wait for growth of a 2nd empty cloned body/"home".
Edited by HYP86, 12 July 2008 - 06:44 PM.
manofsan 12 Jul 2008
It would be fully functional, with only a brain stem to keep its heart beating.
We'd then sedate you, and hook up a direct blood supply to your brain.
Then we transplant your brain into the new body, and attach its blood supply to your brain.
I think that hooking your brain to the extended nervous system of the new body is the hardest part.
dr_chaos 12 Jul 2008
its sitting firmly below the sella turcica in the fossa hypophysalis.
ok. maybe you could work around that problem by usig an endoscope or so. it's to late to think about it now.
niner 12 Jul 2008
cyborgdreamer 12 Jul 2008
13 Jul 2008
You could do a head transplant (I think they've done it in a monkey). However, a brain has the consistency of jello so, if you tried to take it out of someone's skull, you'd squash it.
Clearly you've never done it before. Brains don't jiggle at all like jello.
John Schloendorn 13 Jul 2008
There is no last organ to fail. Only a first. Unfortunately in fact the brain does fail first with quite average frequency. I don't see much reason to believe that it would outlast all other organs by a lot. If it could, then there would not be a evolutionary advantage to maintain it as well as it gets maintained, and its maintenance should come down within a few generations. When it starts failing first, selection would kick in, and stabilitze that exact maintenance level. How can this not have already happened?The brain however, is usually the last organ to fail
VictorBjoerk 13 Jul 2008
VictorBjoerk 13 Jul 2008
Karen Ritchie, "Mental Status Examination of an Exceptional Case of Longevity J. C. Aged 118 Years," British Journal of Psychiatry , Vol. 166, pp. 229-235 (1995)
peterh78 13 Jul 2008
Heliotrope 13 Jul 2008
to the above post: yes I believe surgeries like that could be feasible even now. Think about it, in mid 20th century (1960s i believe) the first successful heart transplant occured and the person lived for an additional two (2!) years after that heart transplant in South Africa. Ripping the whole brain out sounds scary and all and there's an ethics/moral hurdle to be jumped. Maybe it's easier to get a "headless"/unconscious clone, and then do a head- transplant, then you'd only have to connect the neck parts, spinal column etc, and not have to take out the entire brain. Like someone said, people already did headtransplants in monkeys
caston 13 Jul 2008
elwalvador 14 Jul 2008
forever freedom 14 Jul 2008
Anthony_Loera 14 Jul 2008
http://query.nytimes...755C0A964948260
damn those mice get the coolest medical coverage...
A
14 Jul 2008
We are getting there...
http://query.nytimes...755C0A964948260
damn those mice get the coolest medical coverage...
A
That seems like a possible way to get around the connecting severed nerves problem. If you had a clone with a brain, cut the brain out, but leave enough brain around the various nerves so the brain being transplanted in can grow connections into the old bits. Maybe brain cells can bridge the gap in paraplegics severed spinal columns. Is this idea as good as I think it is?
Edited by Fear&Obey, 14 July 2008 - 03:47 AM.
cyborgdreamer 14 Jul 2008
It's a very interesting idea. But most people's brains wouldn't last much longer even if they had a brand new body. Not that we couldn't deal with finding ways to keep the brain younger.
I wonder if being attached to a younger immune system might keep the brain alive longer.
forever freedom 14 Jul 2008
We are getting there...
http://query.nytimes...755C0A964948260
damn those mice get the coolest medical coverage...
A
Did you guys see the date when the article was published? "Published: June 18, 1982"
Apparently there hasn't been much research on this area lately...
Edited by sam988, 14 July 2008 - 05:23 AM.
John Schloendorn 14 Jul 2008
There are three main things that the brain dies from -- atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. But if you can reliably cure those three in one organ, then you're probably well on the way to cure aging in the rest of the body anyway. So the question is, what's easier, figure out how to grow a headless clone and transplant a brain, or cure aging under the assumption that you already have the unbelievable biotechnological power to cure atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. I don't know what the answer is, and luckily nobody needs to make up their mind before they can cure those three.Not that we couldn't deal with finding ways to keep the brain younger.
VictorBjoerk 14 Jul 2008
We are getting there...
http://query.nytimes...755C0A964948260
damn those mice get the coolest medical coverage...
A
Did you guys see the date when the article was published? "Published: June 18, 1982"
Apparently there hasn't been much research on this area lately...
Why hasn't any more research been done about this?
caston 15 Jul 2008
There are three main things that the brain dies from -- atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer.Not that we couldn't deal with finding ways to keep the brain younger.
What category is it when the myelin sheaths are in a state of dissrepair due to the oligodendrocytes being attacked by immune cells?
Edited by caston, 15 July 2008 - 09:18 AM.
Heliotrope 16 Jul 2008
I think the proper term for this would be a "Whole body transplant"
depends on your frame of reference, a brain transplant is basically the same thing as "Whole body transplant", because you'd be getting a new and unused body at the Peak of its young "adulthood"
Edited by HYP86, 16 July 2008 - 07:41 PM.
rodentman 15 Aug 2008
There are three main things that the brain dies from -- atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. But if you can reliably cure those three in one organ, then you're probably well on the way to cure aging in the rest of the body anyway. So the question is, what's easier, figure out how to grow a headless clone and transplant a brain, or cure aging under the assumption that you already have the unbelievable biotechnological power to cure atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. I don't know what the answer is, and luckily nobody needs to make up their mind before they can cure those three.Not that we couldn't deal with finding ways to keep the brain younger.
I agree. The most depressing part of aging... isnt lack of energy, mobillity, being wrinkled, or weakened senses, its losing ones mental faculties. The total body transplant would be a nice way to fix several things at once... but I'm hoping that neurdegeneration is reversed will before this happens.
Heliotrope 24 Aug 2008
There are three main things that the brain dies from -- atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. But if you can reliably cure those three in one organ, then you're probably well on the way to cure aging in the rest of the body anyway. So the question is, what's easier, figure out how to grow a headless clone and transplant a brain, or cure aging under the assumption that you already have the unbelievable biotechnological power to cure atherosclerosis, neurodegeneration and cancer. I don't know what the answer is, and luckily nobody needs to make up their mind before they can cure those three.Not that we couldn't deal with finding ways to keep the brain younger.
I agree. The most depressing part of aging... isnt lack of energy, mobillity, being wrinkled, or weakened senses, its losing ones mental faculties. The total body transplant would be a nice way to fix several things at once... but I'm hoping that neurdegeneration is reversed will before this happens.
if neurodegeneration is completely prevented or reversed in some way, then may not even be necessary to do whole body transplant. there're defintely big risks and liabilities of ripping a brain out and put it in a new body, riskier than transplanting small body parts. i still think brain-transplant can be a huge leap toward human biological immortality tho, if we cure all the neurodegenerative diseases, brain cancers etc first hand, and find more ways to protect the brain.
basho 01 Sep 2008
Device for perfusing an animal head
The Russians actually experimented with discorporated dog heads kept alive, and seemingly conscious, with such devices. Note: Don't watch the following YouTube clip if you are sensitive about severed, living dogs heads:
In 1954 Vladimir Demikhov conducted created a two-headed dog by grafting a puppy's head to a full-grown animal. Again, don't watch if you are disturbed with two-headed dogs:
In the West experiments with primate head transplants were carried out:
www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/stranger-than-fiction/head-transplant.html
The monkey was conscious after the transplant:For an America in the grip of cold-war paranoia, the prospect of Russian two-headed dogs was too much to ignore. The United States would soon begin it's own head-transplant programme.
In 1960, the US Government, eager to stay ahead of the Russians in all aspects of medical science, helped White establish a specialist laboratory at the County Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio. Here he set about creating a world-leading brain research centre.
By day, White operated on patients with all kinds of brain injuries and illnesses. His surgical skills were renowned. But, as a scientist, it was the mysteries of the brain he wanted to unlock. His ambition was to be the first person, in the world, to isolate the brain. To take it out of the skull, to study it, and to keep it alive throughout.
Robert White decided that if he could transplant a head from one monkey to another, then it would be apparent of the brain activity represented awareness. It took him three years to plan the surgery. He knew that this would be, to some, morally offensive.
A word of caution though, don't try this at home or PETA will be over to have a few words.
Edited by basho, 01 September 2008 - 11:52 AM.
Nova 21 Sep 2008
If there will be operations on change of a bark of a brain is an immortality.
Neurosail 21 Sep 2008
Q: How, exactly, will neuropreservation patients be recovered? A: In the future medicine will learn to master growth and development programs within the human body. Cells will be reprogrammed to heal severed spinal cords, regrow lost limbs, and even regenerate new organs. This kind of tissue regeneration already occurs naturally in children that lose fingertips, and in organs such as the liver. Extending these regenerative capabilities will be a matter of uncovering old programs that may still be dormant in our genes, and eventually writing new programs. In cases of severe injury, it is possible to imagine placing patients in a fluid support environment in which blood is artificially circulated to maintain life until vital organs are regenerated and all injuries healed. Such a healing process could theoretically start with just a brain. Programming a brain to regrow a new body may seem incredible, but nature already does things that are even more incredible. The body you have right now is the product of a growth program that started from a single cell.
Rather than making a clone and transferring the brain, simply regrow the body around the brain.
eternaltraveler 21 Sep 2008
Rather than making a clone and transferring the brain, simply regrow the body around the brain.
yes, simply.....