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Why not simply do a Brain transplant?


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#31 Heliotrope

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:54 PM

Rather than making a clone and transferring the brain, simply regrow the body around the brain.


yes, simply.....



Right now, we've got the technology to clone large animals, and so humans could be cloned too. I think growing a "headless/brainless" clone waiting for transplant is easier than the un-proven science of regrowing a body below the head. But we gotta be more careful with clone, b/c we wouldn't want them to be all concious and alive and suffer death, just have the most primitive parts of the brain or some kind of life support for clone so the "backup body" can be kept 'til needed

#32 PWAIN

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:32 PM

Imagine that for technical reasons that you have to be awake while the transplant is done. Hmmm....

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#33 cyborgdreamer

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 12:33 AM

The Russians actually experimented with discorporated dog heads kept alive, and seemingly conscious, with such devices. Note: Don't watch the following YouTube clip if you are sensitive about severed, living dogs heads:


That poor dog! Even for an animal, it must be horrifying to wake up without a body and not know why. I hope they at least gave it anaethesia.

#34 AgeVivo

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Posted 06 November 2008 - 09:48 PM

Rather than making a clone and transferring the brain, simply regrow the body around the brain.

yes, simply.....

It doesn't look that difficult to try:
the first step, for those in a lab developing mouse clones, is to implant clones in existing mice and see what happens.

This is what i call the tree strategy (MF post about it):
trees live very long (up to thousands of years) in part because they regularly renew their body (the outside layer within the trunc). The idea for mammals would be to use the cloning technique to generate a new body within ours, a bit like what naturally happens with conjoined twins (Wikipedia entry). I don't know whether clones can develop within a body, but someone doing mouse cloning in a lab could perhaps try and see if it does.

#35 Nova

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Posted 09 November 2008 - 06:06 PM

Easier to grow up a body round a brain - it is more difficult, than to grow up a clone. At change of a bark of a brain are damaged neurons axons . Is necessary to grow up anew neurons from embryonic cages, it will provide correct growth of neural networks.

#36 Nova

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:49 PM

The cap in which there are channels as pass to them blood is with that end in view necessary silicone. Now the bark of a brain of the donator which is responsible for memory, is laid in silicone to a cap by the basis upwards. Now delivery of blood of a bark of a brain is carried out not from below to top and from top downwards. The bark Body, with wrinkles more low, with a layer embryonics cages and such cap is put on now a clone brain. While two brains will not incorporate axons nervous embryonics cages, the clone will be in anabiosis.

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#37 Forever21

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 01:37 PM

How far away are we from this?

Are there any active research being done in this?

Transferring brain to a new young body, seems rather 'ghetto' life extension but hey, if it works...

#38 kismet

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 05:36 PM

How far away are we from this?

Far, far away, thanks to our society more than 50 years of valuable research have been lost since Vladimir Demikhov.

Are there any active research being done in this?

Not much. No one seems to value life enough to do it... the most recent research seems to have been done in Japan (1999).

Transferring brain to a new young body, seems rather 'ghetto' life extension but hey, if it works...

I am disgusted, appalled and shocked that "ethical concerns" could stop such revolutionary and groundbreaking research. It could have saved lives long before the concept of cryonics and serious life extension was even viable. As always one can be ashamed to be human.

Some discussion, with considerable criticism of the feasibility (not merely ethics): http://www.nsmatch.c...410816d46024fb1
"The idea that we can "match up wires from the brain to their corresponding spinal connections" just struck me as extremely naive. I apologize for coming off as rude or arrogant but I guess I'm grumpy today. Reconnecting the stumps of severed axons from the cervical cord with axons undergoing wallerian degeneration from a decapitated body is so far from reality; we'll have robotic bodies interfacing with the CNS before this. This whole line of research seems ridiculus to me primarily for the same reasons stated by NSGY Res. In regards to SCI, neuroprotection, remeyelination, and maybe regeneration/neuronal replacement (if were lucky) are the primary targets that we MIGHT be able to develop treatments for in our lifetimes. You won't find a single paper in the literature where someone has even tried to reattach severed CNS axons, it's just not an option"

I am not sure if this is exactly "Reconnecting the stumps of severed axons from the cervical cord with axons", but it reads really promising.

Guo J, Su H, Zeng Y, Liang YX, Wong WM, Ellis-Behnke RG, So KF, Wu W. "Reknitting the injured spinal cord by self-assembling peptide nanofiber scaffold." Nanomedicine. 2007 Dec;3(4):311-21.
"In traumatic spinal cord injury, loss of neurological function is due to the inability of damaged axons to regenerate across large, cystic cavities. It has recently been demonstrated that a self-assembled nanofiber scaffold (SAPNS) could repair the injured optical pathway and restore visual function. To demonstrate the possibility of using it to repair spinal cord injury, transplanted neural progenitor cells and Schwann cells were isolated from green fluorescent protein-transgenic rats, cultured within SAPNS, and then transplanted into the transected dorsal column of spinal cord of rats. Here we report the use of SAPNS to bridge the injured spinal cord of rats, demonstrating robust migration of host cells, growth of blood vessels, and axons into the scaffolds, indicating that SAPNS provides a true three-dimensional environment for the migration of living cells."

I am pissed, extremely pissed to say the least, about some people's attitudes of ignorance and short-sightedness.

From the Mfoundation newsletter:
"SAPNS are able to bridge these gaps and literally re-knit the damaged tissue, while simultaneously providing a permissive environment for axonal regeneration. In hamster models where the optic tract is deeply transected, resulting in a 2mm wide wound, injection of SAPNS solution results in rapid, nearly complete repair of the injury. As well as axonal regeneration, restoration of functional vision (as demonstrated by visually guided behaviour) was observed in 75% of the experimental cohort. (Control animals treated with saline only showed no regeneration and no restoration of vision.)"

I will upload the paper in the resource sharing section if anyone wants to read it.

Edited by kismet, 10 February 2009 - 05:38 PM.


#39 JLL

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 06:13 PM

Damn, this is interesting. I had no idea we knew how to reattach monkey heads years ago!

#40 Brafarality

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 07:24 PM

There have been plenty of head transplant experiments, and even a patent for a device to keep the head & brain alive for an extended period after being discorporated (what a great term).

Device for perfusing an animal head

Posted ImagePosted Image

The Russians actually experimented with discorporated dog heads kept alive, and seemingly conscious, with such devices. Note: Don't watch the following YouTube clip if you are sensitive about severed, living dogs heads:\

In 1954 Vladimir Demikhov conducted created a two-headed dog by grafting a puppy's head to a full-grown animal. Again, don't watch if you are disturbed with two-headed dogs:

In the West experiments with primate head transplants were carried out:
www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/stranger-than-fiction/head-transplant.html

For an America in the grip of cold-war paranoia, the prospect of Russian two-headed dogs was too much to ignore. The United States would soon begin it's own head-transplant programme.

In 1960, the US Government, eager to stay ahead of the Russians in all aspects of medical science, helped White establish a specialist laboratory at the County Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio. Here he set about creating a world-leading brain research centre.

By day, White operated on patients with all kinds of brain injuries and illnesses. His surgical skills were renowned. But, as a scientist, it was the mysteries of the brain he wanted to unlock. His ambition was to be the first person, in the world, to isolate the brain. To take it out of the skull, to study it, and to keep it alive throughout.

Robert White decided that if he could transplant a head from one monkey to another, then it would be apparent of the brain activity represented awareness. It took him three years to plan the surgery. He knew that this would be, to some, morally offensive.

The monkey was conscious after the transplant:

A word of caution though, don't try this at home or PETA will be over to have a few words.

This is horrifying stuff. I almost can't believe it.

Victorian science unchecked.
What type of person would actually do this type of research?

There must be another way to progress in this field so that both moral and scientific enlightenment can be maintained and advanced.

#41 kismet

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 08:20 PM

This is horrifying stuff. I almost can't believe it.

No, morals are horrifying and disgusting. They have cost us enough lives, enough suffering and pain.

Victorian science unchecked.
What type of person would actually do this type of research?

I would. Many people would.

There must be another way to progress in this field so that both moral and scientific enlightenment can be maintained and advanced.

Please be more exact with your criticism!
There is another way, which, unfortunately is blocked because of moralistic thinking. It is to perform those experiments on humans, who can give consent and potentially save their lives (barring technical problems, which I cannot assess).
What's so bad about those experiments? They were no more horrible for the animals than every other animal experiment performed. If I can prevent animal death, I'd do it, but not if it hinders progress. Animal testing is necessary in science, therefore such operations are not any more despicable than other experiments. With today's technology we could easily mitigated any pain those animals feel.

Vladimir Demikhov and Robert J. White are my heros.  ;)

#42 waldemar

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:44 AM

Would it be possible to attach a human head to the body of a monkey? That would work around the whole "cloning is bad" issue. Of course the subject would be paralyzed from the neck down, but if this is the solution for reaching escape velocity... why not? We already use the kidneys of pigs for people with kidney failure.

#43 kismet

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:35 PM

Would it be possible to attach a human head to the body of a monkey?

No.

That would work around the whole "cloning is bad" issue.

No. The "cloning is bad" argument is advanced by religious fundamentalists and it is absolutely indefensible. Bio-luddites will always find a way to hamper progress. We will not bow down to them.

Of course the subject would be paralyzed from the neck down, but if this is the solution for reaching escape velocity... why not? We already use the kidneys of pigs for people with kidney failure.

It is not. Tissue rejection will kill you sooner or later.

#44 Heliotrope

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 04:47 AM

Would it be possible to attach a human head to the body of a monkey?

No.

That would work around the whole "cloning is bad" issue.

No. The "cloning is bad" argument is advanced by religious fundamentalists and it is absolutely indefensible. Bio-luddites will always find a way to hamper progress. We will not bow down to them.




I can see why governments ban human cloning, but eventually it could be completely lawful and legal to do in some country some where.

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#45 solbanger

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 06:46 AM

Rather than making a clone and transferring the brain, simply regrow the body around the brain.


yes, simply.....



Right now, we've got the technology to clone large animals, and so humans could be cloned too. I think growing a "headless/brainless" clone waiting for transplant is easier than the un-proven science of regrowing a body below the head. But we gotta be more careful with clone, b/c we wouldn't want them to be all concious and alive and suffer death, just have the most primitive parts of the brain or some kind of life support for clone so the "backup body" can be kept 'til needed


They've grown headless frogs. Way back in '97. This is significant because it showed scientists that you could turn off certain genes in an embryo and keep the parts you don't want from growing. Humans are the next step, but due to ethical boundaries the research hasn't made that jump. Not to mention the fact that you would have a wrinkled adult skull on a baby's body! I'm considering writing that horror movie!

http://www.bsvinc.co...eadlessfrog.htm

Edited by solbanger, 05 April 2009 - 06:47 AM.





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