99 replies to this topic

[orangeray21]

There are many things that are formed with heat and pressure within the earth. No one wears coal or granite because....because it is cheap and plentiful...you can't make money off of it.

Primates (including humans) are know to have an evolved attraction to shiny sparkly things and thus gold and gemstones are very valuable and perhaps more easily assigned vague healing powers.

The piezo effect is unique to quartz and other crystals (as well as some ceramics) as far as I know. Otherwise there would be simple replacements for crystals in computers, lasers, clocks, radios, etc. So they obviously have very special characteristics. They are not just shiny objects. I will report back here when I can get some more facts from scientists or researchers, as there seems no one here that is willing to imagine on their own why they may work. Peace out-

[zoolander]

Peace out-

Adam? Adam? *pines*

[sentinel]

Peace out-

Adam? Adam? *pines*

Now that was funny, if a little esoteric

[orangeray21]

I'll speculate as to why there are not many (if any at all) animal studies regarding gemstones....because animals cannot be convinced of the "healing vibrational power" beforehand, thus no placebo affect.

Hello fellow skeptics. Just thought I'd add this link: http://en.wikipedia....agnetoreception An obvious case of minerals affecting biology. Interesting atleast I thought. Still no studies from Gemisphere, waiting to hear. I do think, "Mind" that an animal study would be good. We are talking subtle fields here though. Perhaps the animals behaviour could be analyzed.

[zoolander]

orangeray21 you are handing us oranges and telling us that they are apples. What you're doing is providing what you believe is good evidence but in reality it is not good evidence. You will need to find something that demonstrates some degree of objective statistical significance. At the moment your telling us that banana skins cure arthritis because you heard in on Kasey Kasems Top 40.

"Jeeze! Bringin that trash in here. Dis is my house!!! "

[Mind]

Or to put it another way, just because quartz can be used as an oscillator in a computer chip doesn't mean it is helpful for the human body.

[orangeray21]

Or to put it another way, just because quartz can be used as an oscillator in a computer chip doesn't mean it is helpful for the human body.

I heard back from the gemstone company. Sorry guys, no old school science.

Edited by brokenportal, 27 May 2010 - 12:07 AM.
some info removed by request

[Ben]

Science is old skool?

[zoolander]

Orangeray21 you sure are naive. Be mindful of Nigerians my friend.

[Mind]

The thing to remember here is that the placebo effect has real consequences within the body. If you believe something will help you, your mind/body will sometimes react in positive ways (ie. heal) even if the substance (in this case gemstones) is completely useless or has zero science to back it up. So some of the athletes and others who promote the gemstones might have really experienced positive effects (many others are just paid shills), but that does not make gemstones or other mystical items helpful toward our goals - radically extended lives. Good nutrition, CR, and Exercise have been proven in scientific studies over and over and over and over and over again as valid ways to stay healthy and most likely extend our lifespans. We need to focus on getting more statistically valid methods to extend lives.

Think about this, if gemstones had such great healing powers, people would have figured it out a lonnnngggg time ago, everyone would be wearing them, and everyone would be a picture of perfect health.

[orangeray21]

I have a new water based gemstone product made with optical quality quartz crystal. I understand it is not appropriate to advertise here, so no name, or link mentioned, unless requested for study. I have discovered that water can hold the "memory" of the crystal sphere. Sounds crazy but true. (I believe it charges the chi around the body, what I believe to be the electromagnetic field). I have tested this product on at least 30 people so far. About 20%, say they are unsure, or disregard any sensation as a fluke. The other 80%, are still skeptical, but then truly amazed. After questioning people's experience these are some of the words I have received, "crazy!" "more alert" "I feel awake!" "wow" are you feeling anything? "oh yeah!" "soothing" "refreshed" "I can't believe I feel that" and so on. I know this isn't the sciencedaily.com peer reviewed study you would all like, but I have to say not everything in this universe is within the scope or finances of mainstream science, here are a couple of old examples that I hope you may consider these other "sciences" exist: This one covers the phenomena of "chi"- And this one touches upon quartz, it is marcel vogel in the video who worked for IBM and did perform some studies I just found his site!: http://www.vogelcrys...arcel_vogel.htm

Merry Xmas my brothers and sisters! -Mark

[The Immortalist]

^
Stop posting

[orangeray21]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2739841/

[The Immortalist]

I don't think you realize how retarded this topic is. Do you even know what a gemstone is? It's a type of mineral that is polished and used by humans as jewelry because they look pretty to us humans. Why do you think these "pretty" minerals are special? Why don't you just shove some calcite up your rectum and see if that makes you any smarter?

There are no known minerals on earth that significantly effect human life span if taken in excess. Many minerals are harmful to our system and overdose can lead to death. For that matter there are no known minerals in gemstones which can increase human lifespan significantly and most are probably toxic to our systems.

Take rubies for example: composed of Aluminum oxide and chromium. Those two elements have no roles in biological function. Aluminum is dangerous to our system since it competes with calcium for absorption into our bones. It is also classified as a "Metalloestrogen" which can increase the risk of breast cancer.
http://en.wikipedia....Health_concerns
http://en.wikipedia....Metalloestrogen

[Mind]

In this particular forum it is ok to speculate on things that have very little scientific backing. I am impressed that orangeray21 has resurrected this old thread.

It has been three years since the discussion started. Not much has changed.

If gemstones were so spectacular for healing and rejuvenation, everyone would be wearing them and everyone would be the picture of perfect health. Its not happening. Even if gemstones had some tiny effect on human health, buying them is still nearly a complete waste of money if you are aiming to defeat aging. That money could go toward more substantial and scientifically grounded research to reduce human suffering due to aging and to eventual rejuvenation.

[The Immortalist]

This one covers the phenomena of "chi"- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aos0hnwiHt8

[Ark]

I think the merit comes in the power of belief, I can see some stones helping if someone was in critical condition and already recieving western medican. The effect to hang on to something that has power to the mind is noted and documented. Or in the case of a young child there favorite teddy bear or in a case of a adult holding the hand of a loved one, having something to believe in can help recover the body. As for it's true medical application I'll leave that up to the rest of you to contiue tearing orangeray21 a new asshole.

[orangeray21]

I have had many doubters change their firm minds after trying out my quartz based spray. Gemstones have been used for so long, their legend is even found amongst so called birthstones.
Aryurveda, the oldest healing modality on earth, uses gemstones. I think experience is the best guide. I wouldn't bother with this stuff if it didn't work. It is an old science, and you don't get the proper effects without proper application, and using the highest grade stones. Today, there are many treatments that nullify the effects. I did find the study above, but it seems based mostly on belief. I found another recently that is a little more concrete, still trying to find. The search to prove goes on....

[Ark]

I'm willing to lend my mind to the idea of clensing the spirit, but making a Jesus healer out of a gem smith is far fetched don't you think so orangeray21?

[Lufega]

Maybe this is not so crazy after all. I mean, how many people actually bought into the whole candida overgrowth wackiness ??? Everytime I read a review on Iherb about how some supplement really helped someone with their candida, my head starts to hurt.

[orangeray21]

I just want to add, I don't believe this is magical. It's just a science not yet financed. My own thoughts on why it works, its simply two fields spending time with each other. The human body is one field, and the intensely concentrated mineral matrix (gemstone) is the other. After a period there is a synchronization, and if done correctly, for the better. Our bodies are rich in minerals, our bones generate electricity using the piezo-electric effect, and this is how they attract calcium. Our cells are batteries, and we are electro-chemical machines hungry for minerals for the day to day operations. Is it possible that gemstones may transmit signals that our dna recognize? Look at how electricity flows through copper, malachite, for instance is a soft gemstone that is rich in copper. I don't see why our electrical systems would not recognize these substances. How about the old lodestone or magnetite gemstone, which is just a naturally formed magnet? Is the pacemaker that run some hearts not just a machine keeping a organic machine running? what happens when we put a large magnet on our pacemaker, Oops, all this power from a rock! I don't claim to have it all figured out, I just ask you to imagine, and perhaps experience this modality, it has changed my life, and I feel like it will be one of the cornerstones to longevity eventually. My goal is to live to be at least 300 years old. I am doing anything and everything I can to make it happen. I will include any thing from the west or east that improves my day to day life. I have a method for evaluating what is beneficial, and if done precisely, this is one of them. I also take large doses of vitamin D (5000-10000 iu daily), laser coherent minerals (www.gematria.com ultramins), beef liver, bone marrow (great source of adult stem cell material), turmeric, enteric coated probiotics (good germs), and other things. Just to tell you a little about myself, and that I'm not some spaced out hippie. I work for a catering company, and my boss calls me his "top dog". I train others for the job. Anyway, I will see what else I can dig up for you guys.
Take it easy-

[Droplet]

Orangeray21 - no disrespect but this forum is geared towards the scientific conquest of aging and therefore operates within a framework that is dominated by current science. Also, when we start bringing in "New Age" type therapies, it makes our cause lose a lot of credibility and look like just another unproven endeavor to make desperate people part with their cash. Face it, there are a ridiculous amount of snake oil merchants out there and this cause doesn't wish to touch them with a shitty stick.

As for the gemstones, I am no scientist but I keep an open mind. Yes, I agree with the others that gemstones will not make a miraculous healing take place but if the belief in them helps people, if only through a placebo effect then personally, I'm cool with that. The mind is a powerful thing so for some people I'd say that in that way they definitely do help. However, until concrete scientific backing is seen for real physical change I'm afraid that people will continue to rip apart your ideas. I personally think that it is good that you are embracing ideas from the east and west and are open minded but most folk here are up for things that can be tested by contemporary science.

[orangeray21]

Hi Droplet, I really appreciate your honest assessment of this. It's a shame we have to wait for science to catch up to what may benefit us all in our quest for immortality, or at least extreme longevity. Particularly with the blatant corruption in our governments, and the destruction of the dollar, it's difficult for the many revolutionary ideas to come forward. If money is the main driver, it leaves other things important behind. I will continue to enjoy these tools, perhaps a few years from now, I will be back to show you the studies proving what I've known all along. My dream is that we structure the world governments that are such a mess, into an efficient machine, like nature has been showing us. I don't believe the governments have been honest with us on many fronts, I must stake claim to what is mine. I love science, but there are some things I can prove for myself in my own kitchen laboratory! I understand these personal scientific experiments aren't for everyone. I will occasionally stop by with only scientific studies. I am curious, no one mentioned the Pakistan study above....any comments? Here it is again....http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2739841/

[orangeray21]

I keep forgetting to Mind, thank you for the kind welcome back. I know I am hanging by a thread (no pun intended) on this forum. I appreciate that, as you say, it is okay to speculate on things that have little scientific backing. It makes sense to me, otherwise why have a forum like this, when you could just go to sciencedaily.com and type in immortality in the search box. This is the cutting edge. The reason I originally came here, is I thought anyone who can conceive of immortality, must be willing to pursue many possibilities. Though our science has come a long ways in the last 20 years (I remember first logging onto the internet!) I think for our current science, it will take herculean effort to achieve immortality. Of course every decade reduces the effort. But how long do we have on this earth, even if we live 80 years, that's only 960 months. I hope we make it, but I have a vision, where every man and women in the world wishes for longevity, and we all contribute towards this effort. Let's put on our a lab coats and share our data.

[orangeray21]

Aha! I just found this. This is from scientific.net. Can I get some feedback, is this scientific enough? This is posted in an Advanced Materials Research journal, they only show the first page without
payment, it is here: http://www.scientific.net/AMR.58.77
It explains the
Mechanism of Far Infrared Emission from Mineral Tourmaline Fine Powders

[orangeray21]

I'm on a roll with key words I guess, how about this concerning the gemstone quartz, just another intro, but gives another peak into possible mechanisms: http://www.sciencedi...350448700000901

And here, pyrite, listed on wikipedia as a semiconductor, commonly found in the gemstone lapis lazuli, has some interesting properties research here:
http://www.sciencedi...9c&searchtype=a

[orangeray21]

Perhaps gemstones effects come from the quantum world. I find this result from two physicists quite exciting: http://blogs.discove...sicists-report/

[orangeray21]

Hi, I wanted to post this for several reasons, one, cyborg dreamer asked about more information regarding the rat study (sorry took me so long, where rats were intentionally blinded then healed again using infrared). Secondly, this may show how tourmaline is having an effect on the human body. Since they do seem to be a source of infrared emissions, as studied at scientific.net 3 posts above this one. http://www.lightther...atedHealing.pdf . Also, I wanted to post this link, before I just put in the part where the olympians were training for the 2004 olympics, someone here had scoffed at that, and said, "he hopes they make it". All jokes aside, one link deeper on same site reveals this man, an olympic champion and coach, who claims it helped him to break 9 world records in swimming. For those not inclined to click the link I'll quote him here ""I have been wearing Green Tourmaline for six months, and in the last two months I have broken nine World Masters records and won three World Championship titles. I believe I would not have been able to break those world records or win the championship titles without the Green Tourmaline necklace.

"The experience I am having with Green Tourmaline is that it gives me a lot of strength – and I recover faster from hard workouts. Curiously, it also gives me more sexual interest and power.

"I can definitely recommend the Green Tourmaline necklace to athletes who do endurance sports, such as swimmers, tri-athletes, marathon runners, and cyclists, as well as to athletes who perform technical sports like golf and tennis."

here is the link: http://www.greentour...les/GT_glen.htm

[Ark]

what gems have which powers friend?? :-)

Edited by Ark, 04 January 2012 - 01:11 AM.

[orangeray21]

Hi Ark, not sure if you are asking about the above gemstones, these would be green tourmaline for strength. Quartz brings energy and balance. Haven't worked much with pyrite or Lapis Lazuli. It's important the gem has not been treated (example: dyes, heated, irradiation, resins, oils, etc.), this is very common today, where merchants take low quality gems and alter their makeup to make them look like a more expensive quality. Here is a good quality gem source: www.gemformulas.com I personally know the woman who runs the site, she is a beautiful human being and ahead of her time. I for one am not willing to wait for the studies with the results I am receiving. If you are the type of guy that can eat anything and drink "motor oil", you may not notice anything very dramatic wearing the gems. Though it will still benefit. Though a man who just visited an hour ago, he was checking out my treadmill for sale. He was familiar with energy fields and studies martial arts (Kempo), he brought up the word "Chi" so I thought he might like to try out my Quartz spray. He weighs 230 lbs. has a ton of energy and is buildt like a Mac truck. He calmed down and concentrated. After about 60 seconds, he said he definitely felt much lighter and clearer. All his words. What I've learned from the gems, is you have to find the gem that works for you. You have a great tool once you do that. They don't get consumed like vitamins, and the effects don't taper off as long as you keep them clean. This is their magic. Instead of buying whole necklaces,at first I just buy single "repair" beads,rondells, or chips (refers to shapes) to test. Much cheaper. Then I hold them in my hand, I throw a silk thread through them and wear it, or I take some medical tape and tape it to an acupunture point on my body or some sore point, and see how my day goes. I also see how I sleep. If my day, sleep, and energy are better, that is my answer. For most men I would recommend Green Tourmaline, it's expensive, but very strong, and if you can't feel that one, you probably won't feel any of them. Some on this forum may say, "aha, it is placebo", but I say it is no different than vitamins, we don't feel them all, but they are crucial for cellular energy. Right now I am working with Carnelian, it is one of my favorites. You'll notice my sign in name is orangeray, this is taken from the Carnelian gemstone. It just feels good, and makes me more resilient (notice my patience ?)so why not. Take it easy-

Edited by orangeray21, 05 January 2012 - 04:46 AM.