37 replies to this topic

[embean]

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing. Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.
Is there a good product I can use daily?
Right now, the only thing I use regularly is sunscreen.
Also, my mom has had real problems with her eyes becoming puffy/droopy, and she has already had surgery to remove fat pockets, or something! I think. Would I be genetically predisposed to this sort of thing?

And: this is probably bad. But, I do use tanning beds. I have a very fair complexion, and I feel like I look sickly in the summer. I have only been doing it for a month or 2, no more than once a week. I use sunscreen on my face when I do it (don't know if this would actually help). I have heard this is worse than tanning outside- but I am really prone to burns, so I feel like a controlled environment is better? I've never been burned from a tanning bed. I was wondering, why is this worse than normal tanning?
And, are there additional precautions I should take (in terms of skin care), if I use tanning beds? I know the easy answer is probably just don't do it...
Recommendations?

[Ben]

Seeing as you have fair skin you have basically two choices, 1: Walk around with your natural skin colour, though you may find it aesthetically unacceptable, or 2: Tan wherever and age your skin.

80% of exogenous skin aging is due to photodamage. When you use a tanning bed you are blasting your skin with UV Radiation. You can't see it, and in most cases you can't feel it, but it's there, aging your skin, breaking down collagen and elastin, ruining your complexion. It's a slow process but it's happening.

Re tanning beds being better than tanning outside: It's not the source of the tanning but the tanning itself that is the problem. Tanning is your skin's natural response to sun damage. Obviously a source with a higher UV will tan you quicker, but you are still damaging your skin.

[sentinel]

Welcome aboard embean!

The sun is likely to cause more damage than sunbeds because burning is more likely to occur. But as Ben-Aus said, Sunbeds are still bad for your skin. I'm 38 and used sunbeds a lot, sunbathed a fair amount but as I live in the UK it has not always been an option!

A lot of how you age will be determined by you genetic pre-disposition, (I look young for my but I thank my parents for that rather than my life-style) age but reducing exposure to the sun will cause tany negative pre-disposition to happen more slowly.

I'm not going to sit here and say "enjoy looking pale" because that's not my call, but perhaps using a tinted sunscreen or one of the ever-improving self tan products would suit your life better. It's a lot better than looking old before your time ;-)

sentinel

[vyntager]

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing.

But it's still good thinking to start doing something as soon as possible

Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.

Is there any product you could use ? Probably not, but you could nevertheless be able to do something about it.

Some general tips : if you smoke, know that this will only make things worse, skin wise. So avoid smoking. Having a healthy diet will help too. Getting enough sleep as well. You may have noticed it, but you'll look worse when it's late, and better just after waking up - I'm tinking about your nasolabial folds, for instance.

Now for the particulars :

Nasolabial folds - smile lines, seem to have several main causes. As you age, your skin looses collagen, becomes thinner, and your facial muscles aren't as strong as they used to be. You'll also loose fat in some places (which become gaunter), gain it back in other places yet (usually where you wouldn't). Also, repetitive mechanical strain may fold (normally permanently) your skin along some lines.

So, you could try tazarotene or tretinoin to replenish collagen (there are a few persons who seem to know a lot about this here, they'll explain better than I could);

you could try to work some of the muscles of your face, so that your flesh wouldn't droop as much as it would otherwise (which muscles exactly, I don't know yet for sure, though learning some face anatomy could answer that question);

Loosing fat : I can't think of anything but chirurgy to correct that one;

Mechanical strain : avoid stressing your face. Some people go as far as saying they wouldn't ever (or rarely) smile, lest they worsen their smile lines. But even barring that, you could try not to frown or pout or any other facial expression that you'd think could worsen your predicament. In other words, keep a peaceful, relaxed face in most situations.


Besides all this, there's mor yet I think, first you could worry about double chin, sagging jowls, allopecia, drooping-weary eyelids, gaunt cheeks, shaving and the permanent undergrowth of stubble you'll get as a result, upturning of your lips (from concave to convex), thinning of your lips, the luster of your hair, the white of your eyes, the fact some of your face's features (bones) will carry on growing, changing the shape of your face, etc.

Well I'll try not to get too much over myself as that's a topic I've been interested in. Good luck anyway !

[davpet]

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing. Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.
Is there a good product I can use daily?

The only thing that can prevent the worsening of nasolabial folds is dermal fillers.

If you were to start now, you would probably need only small amounts due to your age. So it probably wouldn't be too costly.

In the long-term, there are studies that show that hyaluronic acid fillers can produce new collagen, so the more you use it the less you'll need and the longer it will last.

[embean]

I had tretinoin once for acne (is gone now). Can you get this without a prescription? And it is safe to use every day?

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing.

But it's still good thinking to start doing something as soon as possible

Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.

Is there any product you could use ? Probably not, but you could nevertheless be able to do something about it.

Some general tips : if you smoke, know that this will only make things worse, skin wise. So avoid smoking. Having a healthy diet will help too. Getting enough sleep as well. You may have noticed it, but you'll look worse when it's late, and better just after waking up - I'm tinking about your nasolabial folds, for instance.

Now for the particulars :

Nasolabial folds - smile lines, seem to have several main causes. As you age, your skin looses collagen, becomes thinner, and your facial muscles aren't as strong as they used to be. You'll also loose fat in some places (which become gaunter), gain it back in other places yet (usually where you wouldn't). Also, repetitive mechanical strain may fold (normally permanently) your skin along some lines.

So, you could try tazarotene or tretinoin to replenish collagen (there are a few persons who seem to know a lot about this here, they'll explain better than I could);

you could try to work some of the muscles of your face, so that your flesh wouldn't droop as much as it would otherwise (which muscles exactly, I don't know yet for sure, though learning some face anatomy could answer that question);

Loosing fat : I can't think of anything but chirurgy to correct that one;

Mechanical strain : avoid stressing your face. Some people go as far as saying they wouldn't ever (or rarely) smile, lest they worsen their smile lines. But even barring that, you could try not to frown or pout or any other facial expression that you'd think could worsen your predicament. In other words, keep a peaceful, relaxed face in most situations.


Besides all this, there's mor yet I think, first you could worry about double chin, sagging jowls, allopecia, drooping-weary eyelids, gaunt cheeks, shaving and the permanent undergrowth of stubble you'll get as a result, upturning of your lips (from concave to convex), thinning of your lips, the luster of your hair, the white of your eyes, the fact some of your face's features (bones) will carry on growing, changing the shape of your face, etc.

Well I'll try not to get too much over myself as that's a topic I've been interested in. Good luck anyway !

[cyborgdreamer]

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing. Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.

Do you drink from straws a lot? The puckering can make creases form around your lips.

And: this is probably bad. But, I do use tanning beds. I have a very fair complexion, and I feel like I look sickly in the summer. I have only been doing it for a month or 2, no more than once a week. I use sunscreen on my face when I do it (don't know if this would actually help). I have heard this is worse than tanning outside- but I am really prone to burns, so I feel like a controlled environment is better? I've never been burned from a tanning bed. I was wondering, why is this worse than normal tanning?
And, are there additional precautions I should take (in terms of skin care), if I use tanning beds? I know the easy answer is probably just don't do it...
Recommendations?

There's really no heathy way to tan. If you can't tolerate being pale, you can always try spray on tans.

[embean]

I don't smoke, or drink from straws a lot...
my mom smokes though, and I know this contributed a lot to her aging.
I have tried tanning "lotions" but I feel they are blotchy... go away too fast.. and even the "lightest" ones are too intense for me because I am pretty pale.
Spray on tans are a lot more expensive than tanning beds.. and I would guess they don't last as long either.

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing. Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.

Do you drink from straws a lot? The puckering can make creases form around your lips.

And: this is probably bad. But, I do use tanning beds. I have a very fair complexion, and I feel like I look sickly in the summer. I have only been doing it for a month or 2, no more than once a week. I use sunscreen on my face when I do it (don't know if this would actually help). I have heard this is worse than tanning outside- but I am really prone to burns, so I feel like a controlled environment is better? I've never been burned from a tanning bed. I was wondering, why is this worse than normal tanning?
And, are there additional precautions I should take (in terms of skin care), if I use tanning beds? I know the easy answer is probably just don't do it...
Recommendations?

There's really no heathy way to tan. If you can't tolerate being pale, you can always try spray on tans.

[davpet]

Oh, one other thing i forgot to mention.

Learn to sleep on your back (i could never be bothered to learn this). Look at newsreaders on TV, they usually have one nasolabial fold which is more pronounced than the other. This is usually the side of their face they sleep on.

I am only 21...but I have noticed some subtle things I would like to prevent from advancing. Mainly, "nasolabial folds" I believe are starting (there's sort of lines there)- in the past couple of years.
Is there a good product I can use daily?

The only thing that can prevent the worsening of nasolabial folds is dermal fillers.

If you were to start now, you would probably need only small amounts due to your age. So it probably wouldn't be too costly.

In the long-term, there are studies that show that hyaluronic acid fillers can produce new collagen, so the more you use it the less you'll need and the longer it will last.

Edited by davpet, 23 July 2008 - 10:30 PM.

[kismet]

If I were you I would wait for more safety data on melanotan (or even use it now?). You might want to do some research on that tanning alternative.

[vyntager]

I had tretinoin once for acne (is gone now). Can you get this without a prescription? And it is safe to use every day?

Depends where you're living in. I know I can't here (Belgium). But even then, it may be possible to find a tolerant doctor. And as far as we know, it is safe to use it everyday; it may not be for everyone, though, and on the first days-weeks you may have redness, itching, etc.

[air90]

Here's the Melanotan forum http://melanotan.org...in/yabb/YaBB.pl

Edited by air90, 30 July 2008 - 05:48 AM.

[DJS]

I'm not sure how it is with other guys, but I've always found a fair complexion to be a major turn-on.

Learn to sleep on your back (i could never be bothered to learn this). Look at newsreaders on TV, they usually have one nasolabial fold which is more pronounced than the other. This is usually the side of their face they sleep on.

Uggh, I've tried so hard to sleep on my back, but I just can't get to sleep that way.

[Eva Victoria]

I'm not sure how it is with other guys, but I've always found a fair complexion to be a major turn-on.

Learn to sleep on your back (i could never be bothered to learn this). Look at newsreaders on TV, they usually have one nasolabial fold which is more pronounced than the other. This is usually the side of their face they sleep on.

Uggh, I've tried so hard to sleep on my back, but I just can't get to sleep that way.

I agree with you! There is nothing more beautiful than fair, perfect skin without any pigmented spots or discoloration!

[Matt]

i think that white clear skin is actually nice, tanning makes the skin look bad in my opinion, at least eventually it does from what i've seen (family and friends)

[Logan]

If it is just a line and not a fold forming at the nasal labial area, I would not worry about it at all. This is just from smiling and it is likely not to change much over the next ten years or so, or at least it did not for me. In your 30s, you may notice beginning to form, for me this was not until the tale end of 34. This is when you may want to start using fillers. The fillers will be even better ten years from now anyway.

I swear intense exercise is one of the best ways to keep your face looking young(I would recommend always stretching in a meditative way after exercise, this seems to enhance the effect for me). I will go to the gym with 4 hours of sleep looking like my age and leave the gym looking like I got 8 hours of sleep and 5 or 6 years younger.

Just do all the right things, eat right, exercise, get plenty of sleep(at least 5 days out of the week), avoid chronic stress, and maybe take some supplements that might help.

For some extra sun protection you can take Lyc O Mato and astaxanthin.

I agree with Matt, being pale looks healthy. If you want to keep a little color on your face, especially during the summer months when everyone else seems to have a little tan, just do small sessions of tanning beds for maintenance. Just NEVER get burned.

Also, make sure you are using the newer safer tanning beds like this one.

http://www.google.co...B9VlRoKLDcpGahA

[mustardseed41]

No tanning beds are safe. Dream on.

[niner]

If you want to keep a little color on your face, especially during the summer months when everyone else seems to have a little tan, just do small sessions of tanning beds for maintenance. Just NEVER get burned.

Also, make sure you are using the newer safer tanning beds like this one. [link]

How is a tanning bed that produces UVA and/or UVB "safer"? As far as I can tell, these things are just tanning beds, and they are not safe. They will age your skin and cause all the same sorts of damage as sunlight. They market them as "healthy" because they will make some vitamin D. Mercola has his name on it; that should tell you something.

[Shepard]

If you want to keep a little color on your face, especially during the summer months when everyone else seems to have a little tan, just do small sessions of tanning beds for maintenance. Just NEVER get burned.

Also, make sure you are using the newer safer tanning beds like this one. [link]

How is a tanning bed that produces UVA and/or UVB "safer"? As far as I can tell, these things are just tanning beds, and they are not safe. They will age your skin and cause all the same sorts of damage as sunlight. They market them as "healthy" because they will make some vitamin D. Mercola has his name on it; that should tell you something.

If I remember correctly, Hollick says in The UV Advantage that older tanning beds only produced UVA. In that way, newer beds might be preferable.

[niner]

If you want to keep a little color on your face, especially during the summer months when everyone else seems to have a little tan, just do small sessions of tanning beds for maintenance. Just NEVER get burned.

Also, make sure you are using the newer safer tanning beds like this one. [link]

How is a tanning bed that produces UVA and/or UVB "safer"? As far as I can tell, these things are just tanning beds, and they are not safe. They will age your skin and cause all the same sorts of damage as sunlight. They market them as "healthy" because they will make some vitamin D. Mercola has his name on it; that should tell you something.

If I remember correctly, Hollick says in The UV Advantage that older tanning beds only produced UVA. In that way, newer beds might be preferable.

That's probably the case, although the linked site seems to sell all kinds of beds; some with UVA and some without, but they don't make a clear safety distinction. If you had a UVB-only bed, and it wasn't touted as being "safe", it does seem like it would be ethical to sell it as a "safer" alternative to the sun. The ability to precisely control your UVB dose would be a plus. At the site, they say:

And the UVA rays produce a tan that not only makes your skin more pleasing in appearance, but is also your body's natural defense against sunburn.

But Wikipedia says:

Firstly, the UVA-radiation generates oxidative stress, which in turn oxidises pre-existing melanin. This leads to rapid darkening of already existing melanin. Secondly, there is an increased production of melanin (melanogenesis).[1] It is a reaction of the body to photodamage from UVB.[2] This melanogenesis is triggered by the same DNA damage that causes sunburn. Melanogenesis leads to delayed tanning. It first becomes visible about 72 hours after exposure.[1] The tan that is created by an increased melanogenesis lasts much longer than the one that is caused by oxidation of existing melanin.

This suggests that the UVA beds not only cause skin aging and possibly melanoma, but also a tan that doesn't even last very long! And the site is advertising them under the same "safe" banner as the UVB beds, when they should be saying "this bed is really bad for you".

[Logan]

I'm not sure how it is with other guys, but I've always found a fair complexion to be a major turn-on.

Learn to sleep on your back (i could never be bothered to learn this). Look at newsreaders on TV, they usually have one nasolabial fold which is more pronounced than the other. This is usually the side of their face they sleep on.

Uggh, I've tried so hard to sleep on my back, but I just can't get to sleep that way.

Sleeping on your side can enhance nasal labial folds but the nasal labial fold developing on one side a much more to do with genetics.

I think the more cushion or give your pillow has helps. Also, silk pillows or pillows that are very soft and smooth are less likely have an effect on wrinkles and nasal labial folds.

[Logan]

O.k., maybe I used the wrong site as an example. I also said, "safer". Maybe I should have said, "less damaging".

I think a little sun exposure is very healthy. Unless you have extremely fair skin and burn VERY quickly, a little color from the sun here and there probably will not ever show as significant visible damage in the long run(or at least through your .

Here is a video of Dr. Mercola trying to sell his version of a "safer", "healthier" tanning bed. This type of bed seems to be a new trend. Whether it is really safer or offers the benefits he claims it offers remains to be seen.

http://www.google.co...LY-LX0-YcCGkkGQ

[mustardseed41]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

Edited by mustardseed41, 22 January 2010 - 05:57 PM.

[Logan]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

I know Mercola is not someone who we should be follow all of his advice. Plus, he is selling products, which makes it even harder to trust everything he says. I was just giving a better example than the one I gave before.

I just think the avoiding the sun as if you were a vampire thing is a bit extreme. I appreciate that people don't want to damage their skin and want to look young as well as feel long for a very long time. But come on, there is also something called living life to it's fullest and experiencing as much as possible without doing much damage. I don't believe that a tiny bit of damage here and there will not show up as anything very significant later. Maybe I am wrong.

[mustardseed41]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

I know Mercola is not someone who we should be follow all of his advice. Plus, he is selling products, which makes it even harder to trust everything he says. I was just giving a better example than the one I gave before.

I just think the avoiding the sun as if you were a vampire thing is a bit extreme. I appreciate that people don't want to damage their skin and want to look young as well as feel long for a very long time. But come on, there is also something called living life to it's fullest and experiencing as much as possible without doing much damage. I don't believe that a tiny bit of damage here and there will not show up as anything very significant later. Maybe I am wrong.

Where have I once said I avoid the sun like a vampire? Of course I have not. I do live life to the fullest thank you. Your the one trying to push your agenda on people here. Damage your skin. Fine with me.

[Logan]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

I know Mercola is not someone who we should be follow all of his advice. Plus, he is selling products, which makes it even harder to trust everything he says. I was just giving a better example than the one I gave before.

I just think the avoiding the sun as if you were a vampire thing is a bit extreme. I appreciate that people don't want to damage their skin and want to look young as well as feel long for a very long time. But come on, there is also something called living life to it's fullest and experiencing as much as possible without doing much damage. I don't believe that a tiny bit of damage here and there will not show up as anything very significant later. Maybe I am wrong.

Where have I once said I avoid the sun like a vampire? Of course I have not. I do live life to the fullest thank you. Your the one trying to push your agenda on people here. Damage your skin. Fine with me.

I have no agenda. I am not pushing the use of tanning beds or trying to say that it is o.k. to damage your skin.

I also was not directing the vampire comment at you, sorry if it appeared that way.

I have already damaged my skin plenty and will be doing everything I can to at the very least avoid ever getting burned by the sun again(which happens for me pretty easily).

[Ben]

I just think the avoiding the sun as if you were a vampire thing is a bit extreme.

Everyone here makes their decisions based on either conscious or unconscious weighing of the costs compared to the benefits of the measures they are willing to take. Have faith that people can intelligently do this by themselves without your rhetoric.

[Logan]

I just think the avoiding the sun as if you were a vampire thing is a bit extreme.

Everyone here makes their decisions based on either conscious or unconscious weighing of the costs compared to the benefits of the measures they are willing to take. Have faith that people can intelligently do this by themselves without your rhetoric.

Right on man..I guess voicing opinions is not something that can be done without someone getting their feelings hurt or taking something too personally.

First of all, I'm not sure you can label anything I said as "rhetoric". I will admit that I probably could have stated my opinion in a better way without using words like "vampire". I am sorry if I offended anyone.

[miklu]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

His advice, at least that pertaining to tanning, is not merely "iffy," but actively harmful. The Dermatology Blog has a great post on Mercola's ludicrousness. (The same blog also has another very good piece on the tanning industry, and how it's turning out to be the new Big Tobacco.)

If you absolutely, positively need to adhere to the fashionable tanned look, stick to self-tanners.

Edited by miklu, 23 January 2010 - 10:46 AM.

[Logan]

Like I said, damage is cumulative. No getting around this fact. Don't listen to Mercola......his advice is iffy at best.

His advice, at least that pertaining to tanning, is not merely "iffy," but actively harmful. The Dermatology Blog has a great post on Mercola's ludicrousness. (The same blog also has another very good piece on the tanning industry, and how it's turning out to be the new Big Tobacco.)

If you absolutely, positively need to adhere to the fashionable tanned look, stick to self-tanners.

You have a good point. I guess, whether there is or is not such a thing as a less invasive, less dangerous tanning bed, there really is no point in bringing it up in discussion as tanning beds of any kind used on a regular basis will cause unwanted damage. I knew this to begin with, I just thought it was interesting that there MAY be tanning beds that are not as bad for your skin as others are.