14 replies to this topic

[Dmitri]

I'm a health minor and in one of my courses I learned that those who do moderate or vigorous exercise have to consume more calories (to maintain energy and health) than those who do not exercise. Therefore, I was wondering how those who practice CR can do exercise if they consume such low calorie diets. Where do they get the energy to exercise with such low calories (for those who do exercise)?

[Matt]

Yes, I've played competitive football for many hours in the day many times a week and kept up with everyone else, in fact I felt more fitter, ligther and better. At the time I was getting about 1600k/cal. When people think of a thin CRONie they think old frail and incapacitated. Complete *BS*.

Edited by Matt, 04 August 2008 - 05:35 PM.

[VictorBjoerk]

I think this has been discussed in other threads if you look back.

[Johan]

[url="http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22011&hl=""]This[/url] is a recent thread about CR and exercise.

This is how I see it: Post 1, Post 2 (from the same thread)

[Dmitri]

<A href="http://www.imminst.o...pic=22011&hl="" target=_blank>This is a recent thread about CR and exercise.

This is how I see it: <A href="http://www.imminst.o...dpost&p=239369" target=_blank>Post 1, <A href="http://www.imminst.o...dpost&p=239386" target=_blank>Post 2 (from the same thread)

I see thanks for the reply.

[jCole]

Not only exercise, but also weight train to maintain strength & tone.

[Dmitri]

Yes, I've played competitive football for many hours in the day many times a week and kept up with everyone else, in fact I felt more fitter, ligther and better. At the time I was getting about 1600k/cal. When people think of a thin CRONie they think old frail and incapacitated. Complete *BS*.

I don't know, looking at Madonna it appears that low calorie diet and a lot of exercise don't mix well. Have you seen her recent photos without make-up (she looks terrible). She looked better 3 years ago when she had more meat on her body (see her Hung Up video).

Edited by Dmitri, 15 August 2008 - 05:39 AM.

[Hoon]

I agree with you about Madonna. She is looking quite gaunt these days. And if the reports of her exercise regimen are correct (exercising 3+ hours a day, everyday), combined with her (probably) low-calorie macrobiotic diet, she is probably exerting way too many calories, which can be counter-productive in the quest for the preservation of youth.

In any case, there certainly are benefits of exercise that cannot be achieved through CR alone, including preservation (or sometimes increase) in bone density, mood elevation, and just plain social fun. I think the key is to not exercise so much as to dramatically increase caloric need. (Besides, exercising intensely for 30 minutes, 3-5 times a week as is commonly recommended, is NOT going to dramatically increase caloric need.)

I believe many CR practitioners put a focus on strength training (for bones) for exercise since it addresses one of the main concerns of CR (bone loss) while not being too calorie-consuming. I believe many also endorse yoga (in its many forms) for its numerous benefits (not just physical). Cardio, in relation to heart-health, seems not to be as beneficial as CR, so at least some CR practitioners I know of do only limited quantities of it.

Edited by Hoon, 17 August 2008 - 04:31 PM.

[kismet]

Yes, I've played competitive football for many hours in the day many times a week and kept up with everyone else, in fact I felt more fitter, ligther and better. At the time I was getting about 1600k/cal. When people think of a thin CRONie they think old frail and incapacitated. Complete *BS*.

I don't know, looking at Madonna it appears that low calorie diet and a lot of exercise don't mix well. Have you seen her recent photos without make-up (she looks terrible). She looked better 3 years ago when she had more meat on her body (see her Hung Up video).

I don't believe she's doing CRON, but someone in the know should better elaborate. Excessive exercise and CR definitely don't mix at all, that's common sense. If she really eats ~700kcal and exercises 2-3hours per day... I think you can effectively strength train and endurance train wth only <6h/week.

[Dmitri]

Yes, I've played competitive football for many hours in the day many times a week and kept up with everyone else, in fact I felt more fitter, ligther and better. At the time I was getting about 1600k/cal. When people think of a thin CRONie they think old frail and incapacitated. Complete *BS*.

I don't know, looking at Madonna it appears that low calorie diet and a lot of exercise don't mix well. Have you seen her recent photos without make-up (she looks terrible). She looked better 3 years ago when she had more meat on her body (see her Hung Up video).

I don't believe she's doing CRON, but someone in the know should better elaborate. Excessive exercise and CR definitely don't mix at all, that's common sense. If she really eats ~700kcal and exercises 2-3hours per day... I think you can effectively strength train and endurance train wth only <6h/week.

Madonna adheres to a Macrobiotic diet, which is:

from Wiki:
"A macrobiotic diet (or macrobiotics), from the Greek "macro" (large, long) and "bios" (life), is a dietary regimen that involves eating grains as a staple food supplemented with other foodstuffs such as vegetables and beans, and avoiding the use of highly processed or refined foods. Macrobiotics also address the manner of eating, by recommending against overeating, and requiring that food be chewed thoroughly before swallowing."

How similar is this diet to CR?

The Criticisms

"In 1967 the Journal of the American Medical Association published a detailed report of a case of scurvy and malnutrition induced by strict adherence to a restrictive macrobiotic regimen. In 1971 the AMA Council on Foods and Nutrition said that followers of the diet, particularly the strictest, stood in "great danger" of malnutrition [JAMA 218:397, 1971].""

[kismet]

How similar is this diet to CR?

I guess not at all, I've had quick glance at that concept before. It is rather based on mysticism, intuiton and hype than evidence based science.
CRONies most probably follow different diets, I'd wager a lot are ovo-lacto-vegetarians or something along the lines. Tracking your vitamin/mineral/calorie intake using programmes like Crono-meter and applying some (evidence-based) modifications (like low AGE intake, low GI/GL/sugar, not processed foods, low heme-iron intake, etc.) to your dietary intake is a completely different approach. CR without knowing your vitamin/mineral intake may give zero benefits.

[Dmitri]

How similar is this diet to CR?

I guess not at all, I've had quick glance at that concept before. It is rather based on mysticism, intuiton and hype than evidence based science.
CRONies most probably follow different diets, I'd wager a lot are ovo-lacto-vegetarians or something along the lines. Tracking your vitamin/mineral/calorie intake using programmes like Crono-meter and applying some (evidence-based) modifications (like low AGE intake, low GI/GL/sugar, not processed foods, low heme-iron intake, etc.) to your dietary intake is a completely different approach. CR without knowing your vitamin/mineral intake may give zero benefits.

I see, but my original question postulated while it was good to be on CR on engage in vigorous exercise for prolonged periods of time. If they don’t eat enough calories where would they get the energy for the vigorous exercise?

[Mewtwo]

I do notice that by restricting I have trouble with aerobic exercise, but I do walk and practice yoga and range of motion exercises.

The idea is to PROCESS fewer calories, whether that be burning or storing, so I would imagine that exercising more often than that would only serve to spike your appetite.

[Dmitri]

How similar is this diet to CR?

I guess not at all, I've had quick glance at that concept before. It is rather based on mysticism, intuiton and hype than evidence based science.
CRONies most probably follow different diets, I'd wager a lot are ovo-lacto-vegetarians or something along the lines. Tracking your vitamin/mineral/calorie intake using programmes like Crono-meter and applying some (evidence-based) modifications (like low AGE intake, low GI/GL/sugar, not processed foods, low heme-iron intake, etc.) to your dietary intake is a completely different approach. CR without knowing your vitamin/mineral intake may give zero benefits.

It appears that Madonna is looking good again at least from this recent photo of her concert. She seems to have a youthful and healthy looking body, as for her face I don't know if she uses pounds of make-up or botox but she's looking healthier in that department as well.

http://news.yahoo.co...O3BLxA3aE6GOrgF

[Dmitri]

How similar is this diet to CR?

I guess not at all, I've had quick glance at that concept before. It is rather based on mysticism, intuiton and hype than evidence based science.
CRONies most probably follow different diets, I'd wager a lot are ovo-lacto-vegetarians or something along the lines. Tracking your vitamin/mineral/calorie intake using programmes like Crono-meter and applying some (evidence-based) modifications (like low AGE intake, low GI/GL/sugar, not processed foods, low heme-iron intake, etc.) to your dietary intake is a completely different approach. CR without knowing your vitamin/mineral intake may give zero benefits.

To be fair the studies I mentioned were from the 60s and early 70s.

I found more recent articles in pubmed that mention macrobiotic diets having positive effects on diabetes II patients. Another article mentions that some studies have shown improvements in cancer patients but that more studies need to be conducted before making any claims. They also mentioned how it lowered estrogen in women meaning it could possibly prevent breast cancer.

The self-reliant system for alternative care of diabetes mellitus patients--experience macrobiotic management in Trad Province.

Bhumisawasdi J, Vanna O, Surinpang N.Bureau of Inspector, Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health, Nonthaburi 11000, Thailand. jakkriss@health.moph.go.th

BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE: Diabetes mellitus is a costly and growing health issue for the individual as well as the nation with much concern needed to change the way of life globally, Thailand included. Conventional medical care comprises of lifestyle modifications and the use of diabetic drugs but even with the development of new drugs, little achievement has been noted in relation to reducing the disease's complications. Macrobiotic is a holistic, alternative health care method. In macrobiotic principle, humans should live, drink and eat in conjunction with the laws of nature that will lead to good health, freedom and wisdom in understanding the laws of nature. The macrobiotic way of living is therefore the caring of body, mind, spirit and the environment in an independent manner based on adequacy and symbiotic support. MATERIAL AND METHOD: The present study consists of forty-four type 2 diabetes mellitus patients from the DM clinic, Trad Provincial Hospital. 4 subjects were insulin treated, observing the macrobiotic ways of living together at the Wanakaset Research Facility of Kasetsart University, Trad Province which lies in a natural forest area approximately 45 kilometers away from the city for a period of between 2 to 14 weeks. The volunteers were required to refrain from using all kind of drugs or chemicals and eating Formula 2 food as set forth by the International Un Punto Macrobiotico Foundation, Italy while participating in all camp activities. RESULTS: The findings at the end of the program together with QOL assessment questionnaires noted a statistically significant reduction in blood sugar levels, weight, blood pressure and heart beat ratios. Subjects were in significantly better health, more vibrant, more peaceful, and more energetic. The 4 insulin treated volunteers managed to maintain their blood sugar level within the range of 110-171 mg% without any insulin injection and all volunteers are free of any adverse events. CONCLUSION: The results of the present study can be a guideline in the modification of health care policies that can lead to the development of effective, and alternative care of diabetes mellitus patients.




The macrobiotic diet in cancer.
Kushi LH, Cunningham JE, Hebert JR, Lerman RH, Bandera EV, Teas J.Program in Nutrition, Department of Health & Behavior Studies, Teachers College, Columbia University, New York, NY, USA. lhk26@columbia.edu

Macrobiotics is one of the most popular alternative or complementary comprehensive lifestyle approaches to cancer. The centerpiece of macrobiotics is a predominantly vegetarian, whole-foods diet that has gained popularity because of remarkable case reports of individuals who attributed recoveries from cancers with poor prognoses to macrobiotics and the substantial evidence that the many dietary factors recommended by macrobiotics are associated with decreased cancer risk. Women consuming macrobiotic diets have modestly lower circulating estrogen levels, suggesting a lower risk of breast cancer. This may be due in part to the high phytoestrogen content of the macrobiotic diet. As with most aspects of diet in cancer therapy, there has been limited research evaluating the effectiveness of the macrobiotic diet in alleviating suffering or prolonging survival of cancer patients. The few studies have compared the experience of cancer patients who tried macrobiotics with expected survival rates or assembled series of cases that may justify more rigorous research. On the basis of available evidence and its similarity to dietary recommendations for chronic disease prevention, the macrobiotic diet probably carries a reduced cancer risk. However, at present, the empirical scientific basis for or against recommendations for use of macrobiotics for cancer therapy is limited. Any such recommendations are likely to reflect biases of the recommender. Because of its popularity and the compelling evidence that dietary factors are important in cancer etiology and survival, further research to clarify whether the macrobiotic diet or similar dietary patterns are effective in cancer prevention and treatment is warranted.